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Posted: 12/17/2003 4:55:59 PM EDT

Age of First-Time Moms Climbs to 25
By DANIEL YEE, AP

ATLANTA (Dec. 17) - The average age at which American women are having their first child has climbed to an all-time high of 25.1, the government said Wednesday.

The rise reflects a drop in teen births and an increase in the number of women who are putting off motherhood until their 30s and 40s.

The age of first-time American moms has risen steadily during the past three decades, from an average of 21.4 in 1970. The latest figure, for 2002, was released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Women contemplating motherhood "are more likely to wait," said CDC statistician Joyce Martin. "It's good overall for infant health, because birth outcomes for teen moms are problematic."

The teen birth rate has dropped 30 percent in the past decade to a historic low of 43 births per 1,000 women in 2002. The CDC also said births among women ages 20 and 24 had dropped to 104 per 1,000 women, from a high of 109.7 in 2000.

The overall birth rates among women 35 to 39 (41 births per 1,000 women) and those ages 40 to 44 (8 per 1,000) were at the highest levels for those age groups in three decades.

"It's certainly reflective of continued postponement of childbearing," Martin said. "But there are some health consequences - older moms are at risk of multiple births, which have a risk of poorer outcomes" such as being born with low birthweight.

The rate of triplets and larger multiple births dropped to 184 births per 100,000 deliveries in 2002 from 185.6 in 2001. That is the third decline in the past four years.

Such births climbed more than 400 percent between 1980 and 1998, largely because of fertility treatments used by older women. Such treatments can raise the odds of multiple births.

Among black teens, the birth rate dropped by more than 40 percent from 114.8 births per 1,000 women in 1991 to 66.6 per 1,000 in 2002. The rate for black teens 15 to 17 dropped by more than half from 83.6 births per 1,000 women in 1991 to 40 per 1,000 in 2002.


12/17/03 13:14 EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.



Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:05:58 PM EDT
The topic title is an erroneous conclusion which is not supported by the article. There is also a historically record high number of both blacks and women (and by extension, black women are included there) in the workplace. think that might have something to do with it?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:58:39 PM EDT
Abstinance is unnatural, hence teaching it to teens doesn't work very well.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:44:59 PM EDT
Your conclusion is possible, but it is not the only conclusion one can make. There are many other variables, especially the issue of women in the workplace as DF stated.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:56:21 PM EDT
True enough the article isn't proof of the assertion, but only a short busser is foolish enough to prescribe abstinence as a solution to teen pregnancy. Doesn't work, never worked, won't work. Duh. Teaching "Don't touch a gun" to prevent gun violence would be as smart of an idea, who's behind that one!?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:35:33 PM EDT
I've seen polls suggesting more kids are remaining abstinent than before, too. I also think kids are getting smarter and know they don't want to "get knocked-up."
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:42:01 PM EDT
I've still yet to see statistics that show any better way to prevent STDs and AIDS than abstinance. It may not keep someone from sleeping with a person they care about, but it'll keep them from sleeping around if they have any sense.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:47:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 10:48:30 PM EDT by sum-rifle]
Do you think it is possible the birth rate is going down because people are abstaining? I guess that shot your theory to hell huh?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:54:21 PM EDT
Swingset, what are you talking about? Abstinance works 100% of the time. It never fails. If you practice it it works. Teaching someone what happens when you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, that there is no "Kings X" bring back the bullet does or at least can work. Letting people know about STD's, pregnancy and all the other things that can result from sex outside of a monogomas marital situation also can and does work.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:35:40 AM EDT
The rise reflects a drop in teen births and an [red]increase in the number of women who are putting off motherhood until their 30s and 40s.[/red] The age of first-time American moms has risen steadily during the past three decades, from an average of 21.4 in 1970. The latest figure, for 2002, was released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Women contemplating motherhood "are more likely to wait," said CDC statistician Joyce Martin. "It's good overall for infant health, because birth outcomes for teen moms are problematic."
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This is the reason for the average age of women giving birth to rise. Birth control, sex ed and abortion rights do not keep women from getting married and waiting until their 30's to have children.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:46:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb: Birth control, sex ed and abortion rights do not keep women from getting married and waiting until their 30's to have children.
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It's not the reason for them waiting longer to have kids but these things make it possible for them to wait longer before having kids. Will someone please explain how a woman going to work magically keeps her from getting pregnant? Several of you have said the reasons listed above aren't valid because of more women in the work force. So please explain how work prevents pregnancy. Unless you are trying to claim that all women who work remain virgins well into their 30s.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:51:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: [red]The topic title is an erroneous conclusion which is not supported by the article.[/red] There is also a historically record high number of both blacks and women (and by extension, black women are included there) in the workplace. think that might have something to do with it?
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I was thinking the same thing.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:55:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: All of these claims of "credit" for ones own particular theories vis-a-vis teen pregnancy rates miss the mark. My very first law enforcement job, almost a decade ago, was as a part time truancy deputy. I had to make home visits in the evening in school that day (yeah, it wasn't much, but it was a commissioned job). Most teenagers, except for the really, really dim ones, know exactly why and how they get pregnant. The teenage moms I interviewed nightly were all pregnant for the same reason; they wanted to be pregnant. Before the conservative "revolution" of the 1990s and subsequent slashing of welfare benefits, a teenage girl could get pregnant and qualify for enough government assistance (Section 8 housing, WIC, AFDC, medical care and others) that they could move out and become completely independent of their parents at a fairly young age. Almost universally where I worked (the poor side of a fairly large city), teenage girls used pregnancy as a way to escape their parents (or more likely parent or grandmother, since there were very few "functional" families in that area). When the various welfare benefits were slashed by the state and by Congress, pregnancy rates dropped; there was no incentive to getting knocked up, and these young girls were no longer able to exploit their early fecundity and liberal government "entitlements" to establish an early adulthood and emancipation. It had nothing to do with abstinence, sex education or birth control. All of those were (and still are) universally and readily available. Pregnancy was an intentional choice for most of these kids.
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Excellent post, natez.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:00:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By illigb: Birth control, sex ed and abortion rights do not keep women from getting married and waiting until their 30's to have children.
View Quote
It's not the reason for them waiting longer to have kids but these things make it possible for them to wait longer before having kids. Will someone please explain how a woman going to work magically keeps her from getting pregnant? Several of you have said the reasons listed above aren't valid because of more women in the work force. So please explain how work prevents pregnancy. Unless you are trying to claim that all women who work remain virgins well into their 30s.
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Work doesn't prevent anything. Many women are choosing career, and intentionally choosing not to get married and have babies. Ya know, the whole 'control her own body' thing [;)]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 12:44:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 12:54:42 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By illigb: Birth control, sex ed and abortion rights do not keep women from getting married and waiting until their 30's to have children.
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It's not the reason for them waiting longer to have kids but these things make it possible for them to wait longer before having kids. Will someone please explain how a woman going to work magically keeps her from getting pregnant? Several of you have said the reasons listed above aren't valid because of more women in the work force. So please explain how work prevents pregnancy. Unless you are trying to claim that all women who work remain virgins well into their 30s.
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Work doesn't prevent anything. Many women are choosing career, and intentionally choosing not to get married and have babies. Ya know, the whole 'control her own body' thing [;)]
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Through birth control and abortion. You expect people to beleve that 20 and 30 something women are becoming nuns? We do have a ways to go yet even with these improvments. [url]http://www.sxetc.org/stories/genStoriesArticleDetail.asp?aid=art_1293[/url]
What Can We Do? So, knowing that all these programs and values have allowed teens to be successful in Europe, what can be done in the U.S.? According to Huberman, three things might change the poor indicators of teen sexual health: adults’ attitudes, societal openness, and the three R’s -- “rights, respect, and responsibility.” “In Europe, adults believe that young people have rights to family planning and other health services,” she explains. “Teens are also treated with respect and seen as assets to the European community. The last part, responsibility, describes what teens learn to value in themselves with the first two R’s.” Adults in Europe have been successful with their approach to teen sexuality, and they help protect teens. If adult attitudes in the U.S. change, then it might help teens make healthy, positive sexual choices. Soon, more and more American teens will be like Teresa, 17, from Paris, who firmly believes that “it’s stupid to have sex and not use protection.” The Differences Up Close Average Age at First Intercourse: United States – 16.3 France - 16.6 Germany - 17.4 Netherlands - 17.7 1997 Teen Birth Rate (per 1,000 women, ages 15 to 19): United States - 52 Germany - 14 France - 9 Netherlands - 4 Teen Abortion Rate (per 1,000 women under age 20): United States - 26.8 France - 8.9 Netherlands - 4.2 Germany - 3.1 1997 AIDS Case Rates in the General Population (per 100,000 population): United States - 21.7 France - 4.8 Netherlands - 2.2 Germany - 1.7 Source: Advocates for Youth
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Link Posted: 12/18/2003 12:47:26 PM EDT
Are you trying to pin down birth control and abortion as a primary cause of the increase in average age? Birth control and abortion are the tools used, not the primary cause. Try harder, yer not hacking it [;)]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:01:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: All of these claims of "credit" for ones own particular theories vis-a-vis teen pregnancy rates miss the mark. Before the conservative "revolution" of the 1990s and subsequent slashing of welfare benefits, a teenage girl could get pregnant and qualify for enough government assistance (Section 8 housing, WIC, AFDC, medical care and others) that they could move out and become completely independent of their parents at a fairly young age. Almost universally where I worked (the poor side of a fairly large city), teenage girls used pregnancy as a way to escape their parents (or more likely parent or grandmother, since there were very few "functional" families in that area). When the various welfare benefits were slashed by the state and by Congress, pregnancy rates dropped; there was no incentive to getting knocked up, and these young girls were no longer able to exploit their early fecundity and liberal government "entitlements" to establish an early adulthood and emancipation. It had nothing to do with abstinence, sex education or birth control. All of those were (and still are) universally and readily available. Pregnancy was an intentional choice for most of these kids.
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DING ... DING ... DING Natez hits the nail on the head. Once the Daddy of last resort, aka The Government, isn't interested any more, the girl is much less likely to get pregnant.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:09:05 PM EDT
Throw in creation v. evolution, the Catholic church, whether homosexuality is a choice, and 9mm vs. 45 and you have the PERFECT controversial thread. [whacko]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:11:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Are you trying to pin down birth control and abortion as a primary cause of the increase in average age? Birth control and abortion are the tools used, not the primary cause. Try harder, yer not hacking it [;)]
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No birth control and abortion are the tools used and because of that they ARE the primary cause. Without them women would be forced to make the choice, career and economic independance while live like a nun, or sex and be assured of having children and the burdens that entailed before estblishing economic independence. Women are human beings too, just like men the majority would not be able to forsware sex for that long into adulthood. Thus they would have to abandon long term goals to handle the immediate needs of a family.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:19:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheCommissioner:
Originally Posted By natez: All of these claims of "credit" for ones own particular theories vis-a-vis teen pregnancy rates miss the mark. Before the conservative "revolution" of the 1990s and subsequent slashing of welfare benefits, a teenage girl could get pregnant and qualify for enough government assistance (Section 8 housing, WIC, AFDC, medical care and others) that they could move out and become completely independent of their parents at a fairly young age. Almost universally where I worked (the poor side of a fairly large city), teenage girls used pregnancy as a way to escape their parents (or more likely parent or grandmother, since there were very few "functional" families in that area). When the various welfare benefits were slashed by the state and by Congress, pregnancy rates dropped; there was no incentive to getting knocked up, and these young girls were no longer able to exploit their early fecundity and liberal government "entitlements" to establish an early adulthood and emancipation. It had nothing to do with abstinence, sex education or birth control. All of those were (and still are) universally and readily available. Pregnancy was an intentional choice for most of these kids.
View Quote
DING ... DING ... DING Natez hits the nail on the head. Once the Daddy of last resort, aka The Government, isn't interested any more, the girl is much less likely to get pregnant.
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Sorry but Muchosen syndrome women who use their babies as hostages to get people to take care of them and thus avoid the adult world are not a significant number. Remember we are talking about the age at first child birth here. The age of first sexual intercourse in the US remains at a little over 16 years of age. If people are starting having sex at the same time, but pregnacy is put off till later, the credit can only go to artificial birth control.
So, knowing that all these programs and values have allowed teens to be successful in Europe, what can be done in the U.S.? According to Huberman, three things might change the poor indicators of teen sexual health: adults’ attitudes, societal openness, and the three R’s -- “rights, respect, and responsibility.” “In Europe, adults believe that young people have rights to family planning and other health services,” she explains. “Teens are also treated with respect and seen as assets to the European community. The last part, responsibility, describes what teens learn to value in themselves with the first two R’s.” Adults in Europe have been successful with their approach to teen sexuality, and they help protect teens. If adult attitudes in the U.S. change, then it might help teens make healthy, positive sexual choices. Soon, more and more American teens will be like Teresa, 17, from Paris, who firmly believes that “it’s stupid to have sex and not use protection.” The Differences Up Close Average Age at First Intercourse: United States – 16.3 France - 16.6 Germany - 17.4 Netherlands - 17.7 1997 Teen Birth Rate (per 1,000 women, ages 15 to 19): United States - 52 Germany - 14 France - 9 Netherlands - 4 Teen Abortion Rate (per 1,000 women under age 20): United States - 26.8 France - 8.9 Netherlands - 4.2 Germany - 3.1 1997 AIDS Case Rates in the General Population (per 100,000 population): United States - 21.7 France - 4.8 Netherlands - 2.2 Germany - 1.7 Source: Advocates for Youth
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[url]http://www.sxetc.org/stories/genStoriesArticleDetail.asp?aid=art_1293[/url]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:22:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Are you trying to pin down birth control and abortion as a primary cause of the increase in average age? Birth control and abortion are the tools used, not the primary cause. Try harder, yer not hacking it [;)]
View Quote
No birth control and abortion are the tools used and because of that they ARE the primary cause. Without them women would be forced to make the choice, career and economic independance while live like a nun, or sex and be assured of having children and the burdens that entailed before estblishing economic independence. Women are human beings too, just like men the majority would not be able to forsware sex for that long into adulthood. Thus they would have to abandon long term goals to handle the immediate needs of a family.
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You, in effect, are claiming, that these women, who consider career important enough to forgo marriage and having children, are in relationships. Or, they are sexually active with no emotional ties. Link to statistics? [:D]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:24:57 PM EDT
Abortion beats abstinence? You are correct if the game is how many people you can kill. You are either ignorant on the issue (i.e. what is a human life) or you are a savage beast.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:29:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: What Can We Do? [red]Adults in Europe have been successful with their approach to teen sexuality[/red], and they help protect teens. If adult attitudes in the U.S. change, then it might help teens make healthy, positive sexual choices. Soon, more and more American teens will be like Teresa, 17, from Paris, who firmly believes that “it’s stupid to have sex and not use protection.” The Differences Up Close Average Age at First Intercourse: United States – 16.3 France - 16.6 Germany - 17.4 Netherlands - 17.7 1997 Teen Birth Rate (per 1,000 women, ages 15 to 19): United States - 52 Germany - 14 France - 9 Netherlands - 4 Teen Abortion Rate (per 1,000 women under age 20): United States - 26.8 France - 8.9 Netherlands - 4.2 Germany - 3.1 1997 AIDS Case Rates in the General Population (per 100,000 population): United States - 21.7 France - 4.8 Netherlands - 2.2 Germany - 1.7 Source: Advocates for Youth
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So you like comparing European society to America? Then you must also favor the European solution to gun-violence, suicide-by-firearm, armed robbery and drive-by shootings which are FAR less than what we have here. [:\]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:39:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 1:41:07 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: What Can We Do? [red]Adults in Europe have been successful with their approach to teen sexuality[/red], and they help protect teens. If adult attitudes in the U.S. change, then it might help teens make healthy, positive sexual choices. Soon, more and more American teens will be like Teresa, 17, from Paris, who firmly believes that “it’s stupid to have sex and not use protection.” The Differences Up Close Average Age at First Intercourse: United States – 16.3 France - 16.6 Germany - 17.4 Netherlands - 17.7 1997 Teen Birth Rate (per 1,000 women, ages 15 to 19): United States - 52 Germany - 14 France - 9 Netherlands - 4 Teen Abortion Rate (per 1,000 women under age 20): United States - 26.8 France - 8.9 Netherlands - 4.2 Germany - 3.1 1997 AIDS Case Rates in the General Population (per 100,000 population): United States - 21.7 France - 4.8 Netherlands - 2.2 Germany - 1.7 Source: Advocates for Youth
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So you like comparing European society to America? Then you must also favor the European solution to gun-violence, suicide-by-firearm, armed robbery and drive-by shootings which are FAR less than what we have here. [:\]
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No, and there is no reason why I have to. That is a fallacious argument. No society is perfect all the way around. The Europeans are defective on their ideas about economics, crime and violence, and enviromentallism. And this can be both scientificly and emprically proven. It can also be scientificly and emperically proven that there ideas on sex and sexuality and population control are superior to the ad-hoc mesures we are employing over here. Fortunately there is no linkage between the two systems, we can adopt the European mesures towards sex and birth control WITHOUT changing any of the things that we are superior.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:44:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan: Abortion beats abstinence? You are correct if the game is how many people you can kill. You are either ignorant on the issue (i.e. what is a human life) or you are a savage beast.
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I know exactly what a human life is. I would guess that you would rather alter that definition to allow you to abuse and repress others for kicks.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:25:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: I know exactly what a human life is. I would guess that you would rather alter that definition to allow you to abuse and repress others for kicks.
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Say it to my face. The reason I oppose the murder of infants is "for kicks"? It appears you may be both ignorant and a savage barbarian. The murder of innocents is not acceptable.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:54:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 4:59:21 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:47:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: LOL I have no ability to defend my position with logic so I will call you names as I am RIGHTEOUSLY INDIGINANT! Didn't make the high school debating team, did you? Then again I'm the one that misspelled indignant!
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Indeed you are. I feel obligated to point out that there is a difference between ability and willingness. There is no purpose in throwing pearls to pigs. I have done so in the past, but murderers like yourselves seem uninterested in truth.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:06:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:10:55 PM EDT
So what were you people saying about the topic before it degenerated into a screaming contest?
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:16:36 PM EDT
You can use statistics to prove anything....
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:19:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:20:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: LOL, murderer? Name calling the defense of the little mind. Little bitter 'cause you can shove your mythology down everyone else's throat, eh Mullah Zonan?
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Please try again to form a coherent sentence, professor. One should especially be aware of this when insulting another's intelligence. Although heated debates on this issue are commonplace, I have never heard someone be so foolish as to refer to the belief that a fetus is a human life as "mythology." That says little for your willingness to engage in reasonable debate and, likewise, for your ability to utilize the scientific method in search of objective truth. Please, return to your regular scheduled "LOL"ing or whatever you aimless depressives do to pass along time in your meaningless existence.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:31:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:40:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Aimless: LOL, murderer? Name calling the defense of the little mind. Little bitter 'cause you can shove your mythology down everyone else's throat, eh Mullah Zonan?
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Please try again to form a coherent sentence, professor. One should especially be aware of this when insulting another's intelligence. Although heated debates on this issue are commonplace, I have never heard someone be so foolish as to refer to the belief that a fetus is a human life as "mythology." That says little for your willingness to engage in reasonable debate and, likewise, for your ability to utilize the scientific method in search of objective truth. Please, return to your regular scheduled "LOL"ing or whatever you aimless depressives do to pass along time in your meaningless existence.
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Okay Mullah! Let's see what you have brought to the issue so far: 1-You are a savage beast if you do not agree with me 2-Dare you to say that to my face. and Oh wait, nothing else. Well, except for bad manners.
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Isn't this what the BearPit is for? [peep]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:47:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 9:51:40 PM EDT by danonly]
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Fortunately there is no linkage between the two systems, we can adopt the European mesures towards sex and birth control WITHOUT changing any of the things that we are superior.
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Thats your opinion, and you're entitled to it, i suppose.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:15:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Abstinance is unnatural, hence teaching it to teens doesn't work very well.
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I suppose you could say that self control, self discipline, and basic morality are unnatural, but have you seen what happens when people are ruled by their instincts and passions?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 3:41:55 AM EDT
Women who wait until their "30's and 40's often that their parts don't work as well as they used to and that they can't have any children.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:11:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Degenerated into a screaming contest? Sorry but the Mullah was calling names back in the middle of the first page. Here it is if you missed it before I called him on it. Oh there's a nice little implied threat from the Mullah too, unless you think "Say it to my face" meant he wanted to pray with him.
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I didn't miss anything. I never do. I am all seeing, all knowing, and I am the Merciless God of your Universe. [;D] I am attempting to keep from having to lock this thread.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:14:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:28:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Abstinance is unnatural, hence teaching it to teens doesn't work very well.
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I suppose you could say that self control, self discipline, and basic morality are unnatural, but have you seen what happens when people are ruled by their instincts and passions?
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EXACTLY. What happens is we LOSE "the blessings of liberty both ourselves and our posterity."
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