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Posted: 12/17/2003 8:51:38 AM EDT
Thinking how a .44 magnum lever action carbine like from Winchester or Marlin would do for home defense. Comments?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:59:48 AM EDT
If you are going to go with a lever action carbine, get a .30-30. You are basically talking about the same size weapon, so the only real difference is Rifle cartridge vs. Pistol cartridge (although a very good one). The .30-30 would be a better choice in any scenario I can think of.....
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:05:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 9:13:11 AM EDT by Red_Label]
Want one to go with my .44 mag revolver, but would not be my go-to gun for HD purposes. If it was, I would load it with .44 special hollowpoints or something. My .44 mag revolver is loaded that way now in case of needing it for home defense. Full-on .44 mag has way too much penetration for using in a home or neighborhood -- especially with increased velocities from a rifle-length barrel. But my shotgun is my main HD gun now and my AR is a distant third on the list, with my 1911 being second. Edited to add: no offense, but there's no way I'd use a full-on hunting rifle for HD. That .30-30 would go right through a perp and possibly out of your house and into the next house. I think that in a lever-action carbine, the .357 mag is probably the way to go for HD. (Again, with hollowpoints.) Read the book: "The Concealed Handgun Manual: How to Chose, Carry, and Shoot a Gun in Self Defense" by Chris Bird. He talks a lot about what happens AFTER you've shot someone. You don't want to be worrying about hitting your next-door neighbor's house or CHILD while the cops are trying to make a case against you for shooting the perp. Hope to God that your bullet(s) don't leave your house, or hit the ground if they do.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:11:28 AM EDT
I'd stay with the shotgun and load it with cheap birdshot. This depends on what shotgun it is of course, but with a .44 mag you are basically going to be shooting bullets through walls, boards, other people, loved ones in the next room, etc.... As per the penetration test of last week, birdshot won't do much on a metal skinned door or two layers of drywall but is very bad news for any home invaders. I have been thinking hard about a mossy .410 cut down to the legal minimum for a HD weapon. Or an 870 with those shortie shotshells from aguila or something. That a .223 with extreme hollowpoints or frangibles so they don't overpenetrate. The History Channel show on bullets yesterday was eye opening. Did anyone see that blended metal bullet that would go through armor but would blow up in flesh? That was doggone amazing. He RUINED that roast. wow. just my 2 cents, YMMV but I'd stick with that shotgun.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:17:42 AM EDT
Clean... Your idea about a 'retro' rifle for Home defense is a good one. If/when you use the rifle for sself-protection, you want the jury seeing a rifle that they can relate to. I cringe thinking about the jury seeing a Bushie held up in front of them at my trial. A rifle that they 'understand' is less likely to have them question your ownership or a retro-rifle and use of same. TRG
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:29:11 AM EDT
Yeah, a lever action is definately more PC. I have a .44 mag revolver, so I'm going with a .44 mag lever action instead of 30-30. Plus, they're kinda inexpensive. Hey, why do I need to justify buying another gun! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:40:41 AM EDT
The problem with a .44 Mag or even a .30-30 is over-penetration. Same with a shotgun and Buckshot. See the following recent threads: [b]Sheetrock Walls - Facts not Opinions Drywall - Part Deux I Hear You Knocking...Bullets and Doors[/b] Facts, not opinions.... [:D]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: The problem with a .44 Mag or even a .30-30 is over-penetration. Same with a shotgun and Buckshot. See the following recent threads: [b]Sheetrock Walls - Facts not Opinions Drywall - Part Deux I Hear You Knocking...Bullets and Doors[/b] Facts, not opinions.... [:D]
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Most handgun rounds (including the .44 Magnum specified) will punch right through drywall just like a rifle round. You have to be sure of your target and what is beyond it. That includes what's behind walls. You can't just go around spraying bullets inside your house ! If you picked a .30-30 for a HD round, you would definitely want to use softpoint or hollow point rounds to minimize overpenetration of the target. Don't use ball ammo in ANY caliber !
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:23:17 AM EDT
45-70
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:32:42 AM EDT
i would use the AR lighter rounds will break up in badguy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:34:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: The problem with a .44 Mag or even a .30-30 is over-penetration. Same with a shotgun and Buckshot. See the following recent threads: [b]Sheetrock Walls - Facts not Opinions Drywall - Part Deux I Hear You Knocking...Bullets and Doors[/b] Facts, not opinions.... [:D]
View Quote
Most handgun rounds (including the .44 Magnum specified) will punch right through drywall just like a rifle round. You have to be sure of your target and what is beyond it. That includes what's behind walls. You can't just go around spraying bullets inside your house ! If you picked a .30-30 for a HD round, you would definitely want to use softpoint or hollow point rounds to minimize overpenetration of the target. Don't use ball ammo in ANY caliber !
View Quote
Apparently you didn't read the referenced threads. .223 ball is much less likely to "punch right through" drywall than a handgun round, as it tumbles after the first wall.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:41:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:44:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: The problem with a .44 Mag or even a .30-30 is over-penetration. Same with a shotgun and Buckshot. See the following recent threads: [b]Sheetrock Walls - Facts not Opinions Drywall - Part Deux I Hear You Knocking...Bullets and Doors[/b] Facts, not opinions.... [:D]
View Quote
Most handgun rounds (including the .44 Magnum specified) will punch right through drywall just like a rifle round. You have to be sure of your target and what is beyond it. That includes what's behind walls. You can't just go around spraying bullets inside your house ! If you picked a .30-30 for a HD round, you would definitely want to use softpoint or hollow point rounds to minimize overpenetration of the target. Don't use ball ammo in ANY caliber !
View Quote
Apparently you didn't read the referenced threads. .223 ball is much less likely to "punch right through" drywall than a handgun round, as it tumbles after the first wall.
View Quote
I was only attempting to compare .30-30 to .44 Magnum. Both of those rounds WILL "punch right through". I think an AR in .223 is probably the best overall HD weapon you could choose, but the question was about a .44 Magnum Lever action carbine. If you were specifically looking at that type of weapon then I do feel a .30-30 would be a better choice. My own personal HD weapons are a Bushie M4, and my carry gun, a Kimber 1911 with GoldDot hollow points.
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