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Posted: 12/16/2003 12:18:31 PM EDT
My son is about to transition from toy guns to having a real gun. He hasn't ever really played army, cowboys, & Indians, or cops & robbers. I bought him to toy AK-47's today & a toy H&K MP5. I bought them thinking it would be good for his personal armory of toy guns so he has enough to supply his friends when they come over to play, so they can play the affore mentioned games.

Question; Is playing these type of games where toy guns are used in the same scenarios we would use for training (somewhat), cops, & robbers etc,etc, a bad thing or something I shouldn't allow?

I would hate to let him play something that would be bad for him, but he is only 6 & using his imagination in such games is, I would think good. I would like some other opinions about the why's or why nots. Thanks Searcher out
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:33:20 PM EDT
I have never given my son a toy gun, although I have allowed him to play with them a few times. He has shown little or no interest in toy guns, I guess because most kids don't play with them in Suburbia where we live. Toy guns are not "politically-correct" and will get a kid suspended for an entire school year if caught with one at school. Instead, I bought him a Chipmunk .22 rifle on the day he was born. (Up with the wife through 28 hours of labor, oh yeah I was a sore sight at my local fun store!) My son started shooting it at age 3. He finally grasped the concept of open sight alignment at age 4 1/2. By age 5, if he could see it he could hit it and practiced by shooting bricks of .22 shells at 2-liter plastic Pepsi bottles at 25 yards. (Did someone say head-shot?) He's 8 years old now and can outshoot a lot of LEO's in my unit (I'm sorry to say that) He also likes to shoot my M-4gery with the Eotech 552-E because unlike open sight alignment, this is more like playing Nintendo to him. Also, semi-auto with 30 round mags beats the hell out of bolt action single shot. [b]This is all done at the range under the strictest of supervision[/b] If I am not touching him, he is not to shoot and he knows it. My hand on his shoulder means it's OK to fire. He has his own weapon, case, eye and ear protection and knows the one simple rule at the range "No Monkey Business, Period". We have never had an accidental discharge or any mishap. He doesn't think guns are mystical like all his little friends do. His rifle stays in my gun safe right next to my two AR's, my GB, and the rest of our collection (what ain't kept under my pillow!) He knows that he can shoot ANYTHING in my collection that he wants to, clear up to my 7mm Rem Mag, but he hasn't taken me up on the offer to shoot the 12 gauge or the 7mm yet because he's seen the 7mm give ME a nose-bleed before and it scared him [;)] We don't do toys, but that's just our choice. just my .02, nothing more...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:43:42 PM EDT
Why don't you ask yourself. What did you do when you were a child? I know when I was a child. Me and all the neighborhood kids had an assortment of toy guns. Ranging from pop-guns, cap-guns and even BB-guns. We played all the un-PC games. Like Cops & Robbers and Cowboys & Indians. But when my dad first took me shooting with the real thing. There was no mistaking or blurring of reality between my cap gun (just like the Riflemans) and the real 30/30 that he said was mine. But stayed in his safe until I was 17. My opinion: There is nothing wrong with kids having toy guns. What matters, is what you teach them about gun safety when the real ones come out.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:44:34 PM EDT
What's the difference between playing those games with toy guns and letting them play, say, Counter-Strike? Easy, one has them outside running about. I played with toy guns when I was a kid. What you must do is clearly define the difference between a TOY MP5 and a REAL MP5, and what that means.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:48:20 PM EDT
Buy him a toy gun or buy him a barbie. There is no middle ground like Mr Potato Head or some other liberal BS. Boys are boys, girls are girls. Do you call a little girl a pedophile for wanting to change dolly's diapers? Then why call a boy violent for doing what cops/soldiers and cowboys do? Let boys be boys, we were better when people weren't regulating what we did. We knew right from wrong. As long as your boy understands right from wrong, then he's good to go!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:52:28 PM EDT
When I was small a show on TV back then called combat was on. We would watch that and go out and relive the battels in our back yards.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:54:39 PM EDT
I played with toy guns for as long as I can remember. Some of the earliest pictures of me as a boy were with me in a red cowboy gun belt with my two chrome cowboy capguns. We played cops and robbers, Terminator stuff, Aliens stuff, GI Joe/War, etc. Then I got into real guns at around age 13 (got my father into them since he had a couple, but never shot and didn't really care that much about it). Never for a minute did I mistake play for reality or vice versa. Had my own guns and ammo in my room at like age 16. Played paintball, play alot of airsoft now with realistic weapons and it is not a problem in the least. I think it's perfectly natural for boys to want to play cops and robbers and such. The unhealthy stuff is all this femanazi PC bullshit pushing boys to become a bunchy of sissies. I'm 26 now and I've never come close to accidentally shooting anyone, video games and real gun games have no ill effects on regular, cared for, mentally stable kids IMO...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 12:57:49 PM EDT
Mmm....we used to make embankments outta piles of leaves (well, we called 'em forts) and have great battles. Of course, there was always the winning tactic called "cheating" -- realzing that the "forts" were made of leaves an you could just go right over/through them. BANZAI! I'm sane. Really. I just play a crazy guy on tv [:D]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:10:06 PM EDT
I grew up playing those games just like everyone else here. Little fact: My mom didn't let me have toy guns til I was 6, when they were given as party favors and my little brother and I begged her to let us have them. I like to remind her of that, and then say "look at me now" heh. I think there isn't anything wrong with playing those fantasy games, so long as your child is capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality. Having proper context helps too. When my brother and I and our friend played these games, we were always the cops, or killing neo-nazis, when we shot at invisible people. We shot our imaginary friends [:D] When we played against each other, it was just "war" "I got you first now you have to lay down for 60 seconds!". We all play paintball now, and I can't see anything bad that these games did to us, in fact, I see more good. If the kid has good parents in every other way, these games won't mess him up. The messed up kids who play these games, well, their parents generally seem to not be so great.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:04:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 3:05:57 PM EDT by Searcherfortruth]
I grew up playing these games as well, but I have seen my gun friends of old freak out when my son was 3 & pointed his toy cowboy pistol at them & snapped it, saying got ya bad guy! They looked at me like I had 3 heads or something, & I had a talk with my son trying to explain to him the rules. Then again he was a 3 year old.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:37:22 PM EDT
I played those games my whole childhood and never killed anybody. Yet.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:40:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 5:42:35 PM EDT by Cato556]
I played those kinds of games all the time while I was growing up and I haven’t gone on a killing spree, gone blind, or grew hair on my palms yet! [;D] Seriously though, people who try to blame violence on toy gun games or video games are just trying to avoid dealing with the deeper problems of our society.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:50:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:02:55 PM EDT
I agree with pretty much with everything ya'll are saying. I just wasn't real sure about kids pointing even toy guns at each other, because of the safety rules, & how it sort of violates them. I have seen folks here get very bent out of shape over little things like this, that's why I asked. I personally, am a little tired of not being able to find many cool toy guns in the major toy store.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 6:24:54 AM EDT
Gun play is ok as long as they practice muzzle and trigger dicipline. AB
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 6:30:15 AM EDT
My three boys have an arsenal of play guns.I had an arsenal.Hell, I remember walking down Melrose fully loaded up with surplus gear as a 10 yr old with my buddies. They play to their hearts content. Now the bastages want to start digging up the backyard to build a fort....lol
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 6:43:56 AM EDT
the "pc police" still allows toy guns to be sold? I see no problem with it. all the neighborhood kids used to play "gun stalk" a variation of the team hide and go seek game that we played on boy scout campouts. Just be sure to teach the kids the difference between a real gun and a toy gun, and expose them to shooting at a young age like my dad did and the only problem will be if your kid's friends have anti parents that panic over anything
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 6:57:26 AM EDT
I think as long as you take him out shooting real firearms so he knows the differance you will be fine. The scariest thing now days is the libs kids running around not having a clue what a gun is and then finding one some day. They don't know the differance between real or toy because they experienced neither up to that point. Next day there is an article in the paper about another child being shot by accident!
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:10:55 AM EDT
He just got 2 toy AK-47's for his daily Hanukah gift. Tomorrow it will be his own toy H&K MP5.[:D] His arsenal is starting to come together. I bought him a James Bond Walther in Germany about 1.5 years ago, & I'm afraid to let him out of the house with it as there is no way to tell it's not a real pistol without handling it. So Europe must be less PC than us on toy gun issues.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:22:23 AM EDT
Like others, I grew up playing these games. I've "killed" many thousands of bad guys. I believe that I clearly understood the difference between a "play" gun and a "real" gun. Play guns could be pointed at others. Real guns never could. If I could understand that concept, then most children still can. I even believe that some day when you transition him to a real gun, it will make the seriousness of the transition even more obvious. Toys are toys. Real guns aren't toys. (At least until you are our age. [:D])
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:32:57 AM EDT
I grew up with TV shows such as Clayton Moore & Jay Silver Heels and the Lone Ranger, & Richard Boone and Paladin. I had a Matel toy SAA that shot a plastic projectile about 10 feet and makes a bang with a Greenie Stick'em cap on back. Those were the days. My children don't have those today, but they got those Sony PS2 & MS Xbox games which is about as realistic as it gets.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:38:19 AM EDT
What I have seen is not that the kids have a problem playing these games, but rather grown ups, & I'm talking gun loving grown ups who have been angry, when seeing my son point his toy gun at them, or others, & commenting that's that's a terrible disservice to his gun training, & it makes pro gun folk look mentally ill for allowing it.[rolleyes] I would ask who ever choose the response that they would never let their child point even a toy weapon at another person to elaborate on they why's of it. Please, & thank you.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:00:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 8:02:59 AM EDT by Symtex]
Well I donthave a problem with it. I cant play the games and tell him not to. (Paintball, airsoft) He has a grat respect for life and guns. Im not worried about him because I reinfoce the values of life and guns with him. The kids that are raised by video games and TV and have the uninvolved parents are the ones to look out for. There is no guarentee that a kid wont snap and do something stupid, but it is not the act of playing cops and robers that will make him snap. Shit play cops and robers with him and make it a bonding time for you and him. That is what my son adn I do.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:04:36 AM EDT
Look, all I want to know is where did you get toy AK's and MP5's? Around here, all I ever see anymore are cowboy guns. I haven't seen a modern looking toy gun in years. I'd like to get my son some if I can find them.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:15:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle: Mmm....we used to make embankments outta piles of leaves (well, we called 'em forts) and have great battles. Of course, there was always the winning tactic called "cheating" -- realzing that the "forts" were made of leaves an you could just go right over/through them. BANZAI! I'm sane. Really. I just play a crazy guy on tv [:D]
View Quote
Hey man, you can't be lying on AR15.com. Some of these guys might get the wrong idea and think you actually are sane. I mean, you're going to this school and all... you just can't be saying things like that! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 8:29:28 AM EDT
I grew up playing all of those games, and I'm fine. The most recent thing I've heard about this is that child psychologists are finding that playing these kinds of games helps kids sort out concepts like "good" and "evil". It doesn't seem to matter whether the role being played out is "good guy" or "villain". There is also socialization going on. Kids learn how to cooperatively structure an activity with other kids. I tend to believe these hypotheses because they are consistant with my own childhood experience. I've always been skeptical of the claim somegun owners make that all of this shooting at one another teaches poor gun safety skills. I'm going on my own experience again here, but I had absolutely NO problem transitioning from the make believe world of play to the real world of real guns.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 9:43:04 AM EDT
Johnnie 7 kicks ass!!!
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:00:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By redleg13a: Look, all I want to know is where did you get toy AK's and MP5's? Around here, all I ever see anymore are cowboy guns. I haven't seen a modern looking toy gun in years. I'd like to get my son some if I can find them.
View Quote
I've been getting mine from the dollar store. And even Kay-Bee toys in CT had some of the electric ones. These are for my future kids, of course, since I'm still in college... I found this site: www.realistictoyguns.com (have some dollar store guns there priced high though, but if you can't find it anywhere else...) And since it fits here, here's my m4 carbine w TA31 ACOG [;)] [img]http://schlanda.home.mindspring.com/philherup/ACOGm4toy1.JPG[/img] Sometimes I can't wait to have kids just so I can justify getting cool toys for them so I can play with them too heh
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:33:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 2:37:51 PM EDT by HardShell]
As a new Dad, I've been agonizing over this very question. Like most of you, I grew up playing with toy guns (I WAS the neighborhood arsenal...) with no problems. But my Dad didn't have a house full of guns - I do. My nephews have toy guns & I let them play with them when they visit, but (even though all the real guns are locked away from little hands) I don't let them shoot at each other, period. They can shoot at "targets" or "deer" in the yard, etc., but not at each other. I know that their parents probably don't enforce these restrictions when they are not at my house, but they go along when they visit (for all I know they've adopted my rules at home, too - but I kinda doubt it). Now I have to face this with my own son, who will grow up with real guns all around him whether he is aware of it early on or not. I desperately want to introduce him to shooting, hunting, and firearm safety from as early an age as possible, and I fear that letting him use toy guns without applying the same rules as he would for real ones is sending too much of a mixed message. In other words, I believe that applying general firearm safety rules to toy guns will make applying those same rules to real guns when it is time all the more natural and instinctive. Maybe I've just got my "paranoid new father" hat on - but I do review the deaths of all children in this state for a living, so I have a lot of reasons to be a little paranoid... [:|]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:13:06 PM EDT
I must be a raving lunatic....I grew up watching the banned TV show Combat, had my cowboy out fit with twin holstered cap guns, owned cap guns, had squirt gun wars, owned BB guns, fired my first real gun at age six, hunted the same year, and played Army at every opportunity. On the other side, I've never been arrested for anything, never had an accidental weapon discharge, served my country in the military, pay taxes, worked steady for over 30 years, been married 30 years, and pray to God daily. Yep, those toy guns screwed me up boy. Tj
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:01:19 PM EDT
[lolabove]I'm sorry to hear you were such a late bloomer in the gun dept. My son fired 30 rnds in my 10/22 at just under 1.5 years old.[:D] He shot 10 rnds through my .45 baby eagle at 4.5. Ummm of course I helped hold the weapons! Hell be 7 next fall so if I get him to the range soon enough he can shoot my .375 H&H mag.[:D]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:14:10 PM EDT
The words to remember are "pretend" and "make believe." The problem comes from a lack of imagination. If someone really wants to commit a violent act, pretending or any other simulation is just that, a pale comparison to the real thing. Alot of parents fear paintball is an avenue towards introducing kids to violence, but in reality, someone who is unstable might try it, but won't stick with it because it is not "real enough." In that case, the person won't be content until they kill someone, regardless if they ever played a video game or shot a paintball gun.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 4:23:30 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]
I think playing with toys guns is fun...especially with kids, and I'm 52. But really, I think they should be learning to field strip and clean their ar's too. All the kids I show an ar to are amazed how heavy they are.
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