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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:46:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 4:49:05 AM EDT by newar15guy]
so i had a half an idea last night...

someone else has surely proposed this, but i figures i'd think out ouud for a minute.

there is a collective disgust for most of the gun laws out there (as there should be) and the question about what we, as gun owners, should do about them. there seems to be 3 factions; 1)can't do a thing about it, 2) write lots of letters, that'll help, and 3) start a shooting war.

we all know that starting a shooting war will only make us "terrorists" now and do little for the greater good. doing nothing will do just that, nothing. writing letters and whatnot seems to have a limited affect.

what seems to have wored on the past is simple, non-violent, civil disobedience. hell, that's how the country was founded. here is what i propose:

we draft a letter. short and to the point. simply put, we will no longer abide by federal gun legislation as the existing legislation is unconstitutional, therefore illegal. maybe a little more to it than that, but you get the picture. we post it on several sites, and those interested sign it. (the internet is an invaluable resuorce in that it can serve to get insane ammounts of information to your fingertips instantly, as well as exposing an enormous grouping of people to said information.)

there is the very real potnetial that we get thousands of signatures, possably tens of thousands. the weight of a doccument such as that, at least in my eyes, would be enormous when submitted to anyone. hell, even the president.

the anti-gun lobby pushes for more extreme measures every year, and we are content to bargain down to a lesser "charge". this is how we slowly loose our rights as a collective. we all know that we have to stop this, if not for our sake, then our kids, or grandkids.

by compiling such a doccument we affirm that we know what they are doing, we know it is illegal, and we will not comply; we draw our own "line in the sand".

there is enormous potential here i feel. the downside is, that we no longer remain nameless. the doccument will surely send up flags, and there is a very real possability that it is used by the gov't. to "research" us and our activities. some of us may even loose our right to own firearms. but i would gladly do so in order to secure the rights for future generations. besides, thousands upon thousands of signatures will demonstrate the level of knowledge, and respective discontent, of the masses. i may be dreaming here, but imagine our own personal declaration of independance showing up at the white-house with the signatures of even 5% of the gun owners. imagine the faces of whoever if they see the sheer volume of the public they are dealing with...

so my question is of course, would you sign?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:50:33 AM EDT
"We will no longer abide by" = "Conspiracy to commit (fill in the blank)" No?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:04:20 AM EDT
You need a spell checker. You also need to go over the patriot act.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:26:03 AM EDT
that's kind of the point here guys. we gotta do something sometime. something non-violent would at least show the uneducated masses that guns don't make you a homicidal maniac. we might even get some unexpected support. as for the spell check, damn man, i didn't say i was gonna write the thing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:28:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newar15guy: that's kind of the point here guys. we gotta do something sometime. something non-violent would at least show the uneducated masses that guns don't make you a homicidal maniac. we might even get some unexpected support. as for the spell check, damn man, i didn't say i was gonna write the thing.
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If not you, then who?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:31:34 AM EDT
someone a bit more eloquent then myself... would be even better if it were someone of stature, but i may be reaching there. doesn't really matter, as long as it sounds good. and i mean REAL good.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:36:15 AM EDT
When I leave my house this morning, I am planning to drive at least 10 mph over the speed limit and I am going to call all local law-enforcement agencies and tell them that I am going to disregard their laws because I don't agree with them.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:47:44 AM EDT
the constitution does not say you have a right to speed.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:56:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newar15guy: the constitution does not say you have a right to speed.
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While your absolutely correct, there is that part about [b]"pursuit of happiness"[/b] and at times nowdays that "happiness" seems pretty fleeting, so maybe a creative person could convince a judge that speeding is protected......, ya think? 'Your "honor" I was just doing as the constitution allows and was in [b]PURSUIT[/b] of happiness, right up until the DPS officer butt'd in and she got away'.......[;)] Mike
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:06:01 AM EDT
ha haha. i'm sorry your honor. i just wasn't all that happy without money. i had to knock off that bank, it was my constitutional right to pursue my happiness! [:D] i don't know, i was just thinking about the whole thing. something needs to be done, and on a large scale to make a real difference (as far as i can see). this is how the civil rights movement was executed, and it worked. sure, some went to jail for it... but in the end, it worked.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:10:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newar15guy: what seems to have wored on the past is simple, non-violent, civil disobedience. hell, that's how the country was founded.
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Uh, sorry, civil disobedience didn't work then, and it won't work now. The prisons are full of them now.. The founders hadta get violent, so will we. Freedom has a price. One we haven't paid, for a long time. Get set to sweat... AND, GET OUT OF THE CITIES!! [DEVIL]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:10:50 AM EDT
The proper way is to challenge this thru the legal system. Unfortunately that takes money. I'd have to see what the laws were for CT, but example, if CT doesn't permit you to own NFA weapons, Machine guns, silencers etc. The way to handle it would be to fill out a BATF Form 4 to buy a machine gun or a Form 1 to build a machine gun, get it denied then take it to court as a denial of your Constitutional rights. Get a dozen other folks to do the same and form a class action suit. Solicite donations from people to support the suit. That way, you don't break any laws and you don't go to jail if you lose. If you decide to do this, it would be best to hire a 2nd amendment attorney to help you craft the method of attack first instead of coming up with a random gun law to challenge.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:20:05 AM EDT
Welcome to the world of the apathetic newar15guy. I'll sign it. We should all sign it and then NOT break the law so that when the JBTs come nobody goes to jail for too long. (Some will go because JBTs don't like getting all gussied up without kneeling on SOMEONE'S head) But the sight of thousands of signatures will get SOME politicians attention. Course it might also get Asscroft crawling down your neck with the lovely Patriot act. I think what NewAR15guy is proposing is some sort of virtual boston tea party. CrashBurnRepeat
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:20:30 AM EDT
Everyone should start wearing their firearms open carry where states legally allow, and stop hiding that which they are fighting to protect. The average person has a misconception that everyone with a gun is a nut. Show them that people all around them have guns, and they aren't shooting like lunatics. Eventually, many will start to get used to them, so for those that do, stop hiding your freedom beneath your cloak. I understand why many do it, I did it too, just not worth the hastle, but guess what, hiding your freedom for your personally convenience is doing us no good in the grand picture, face it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:20:39 PM EDT
Uhhhmmm, I have to go to jail to be free?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:32:51 PM EDT
Sort of like this: [url]http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/puckett1.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:42:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By newar15guy: what seems to have wored on the past is simple, non-violent, civil disobedience. hell, that's how the country was founded.
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Uh, sorry, civil disobedience didn't work then, and it won't work now. The prisons are full of them now.. The founders hadta get violent, so will we. Freedom has a price. One we haven't paid, for a long time. Get set to sweat... AND, GET OUT OF THE CITIES!! [DEVIL]
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wake up, come back to reality with the rest of us now
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:14:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 7:23:46 PM EDT by Airwolf]
While I support your idea in theory in practical terms it would fall short. The fact that you are on ARFcom (or any other firearms related site) puts you in the top 10% (and I’m being generous) of firearms owners. The VAST majority of people that own a gun in this country fall into 2 categories. 1. The “sportsman”. That covers duck/deer hunters and trap/skeet shotgunners 2. Those that have a gun “just in case”. Perhaps they inherited one or picked one up in time of crisis such as the LA riots or a perceived threat to themselves or family. Most of these people (if any) are not clued into the political ramifications of gun ownership in this day and age. Those that inherited their firearms probably haven’t had any contact with “the system” (4473’s/waiting periods/background checks). In fact many people may have purchased their guns from “a friend” not even realizing that they may be in violation of the law (no private party sales in California for example). The people with a bolt gun that use one box of ammo a year, the snobs with 5 and 10 thousand dollar shotguns at the skeet club, the guy with a S&W .38 in the sock drawer he got from his dad… These people for the most part don’t think that the 20,000 gun laws on the books really apply to or concern them. They don’t think that anyone “needs” an EBR (or anything that’s different than what they have/are interested in). 90%+ of gun owners see their guns as either “sporting implements” the same as baseball bats and tennis racquets or just a "thing"... Not a tangible representation of American freedom. If told by the Government that they need to give up their sport or possession for the “greater good” they’d turn in and go find something else to do. Those that did it "for the greater good" would pat themselves on the back for being "good citizens". The hunters have deluded themselves into thinking that no one in their right minds would consider a 12ga pump or .30-06 bolt rifle as a threat. To them military pattern, semi-autos and handguns are only for killing people and they would be happy to see them go if they’ll just leave their “sporting implements” alone. In short do not consider the enlightened views found on sites like ARFcom to be representative of gun owners everywhere. The few that would sign such a document would only be painting a big fat bull’s-eye on their backs for the other 95% gun owners would either do nothing or actively disavow those that put their asses on the line for principal, dooming those that risked everything.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:20:13 PM EDT
Paul, Linkee no workee. I click on "Brian's Article" and get the "Page cannot be displayed" message. New, Maybe the cause would be better served (and keep our arses out of the pokey) by writing a petition stating something less adversarial, and getting that petition to our elected officials. Hell, we can't get everyone to vote, but maybe they'll sign something. Ya got a great idea, except for the "illegal" part.[:D]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:33:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 7:38:05 PM EDT by Knife_Sniper]
I wrote about this a looong time ago: A formal declaration of civil disobediance in regards to an (hypothetical) AWB renual. If no one followed it, it cant be enforced on such a grand scale. Hell, hundreds are in violation now without even knowing it. Thats the sad part, that the ATF would storm a law abiding citizen for putting a collapsable stock on his AR15 while REAL threats run around the US every day. Its total bullshit. Fuck you ATF crackwhores, and Fuck you Sarah Brady. I have been wanting to say that a long time. Like a pistol grip makes a DAMN difference. Like firing from the hip is more deadly than aimed fire. Like a bayonet lug makes a tiny FIBRE of difference in the grand scheme of assault weapon crime (of which their is nill). Sometimes I wonder if a bullet to the skull would hurt members of the Brady Bunch, for they don't have much brains to start with. Write letters to YOUR reps and make sure we never have to be disobediant. I have written off a string of letters, and next month im due for a 2nd string to let all my reps in my state know I still care about the issue. Hell, shoot a case, just in case. You know what I mean. [;)] Yes I would sign such an hypothetical document while maintaining complete law-abiding status. I still care, YOU still care, WE still care. WE stand alone together, but we are enough to get our reps off their asses and pull their weight.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:43:13 PM EDT
I think this is an excellent idea. I will gladly sign my name to it and even help write it. Don't listen to the naysayers. If someone is afraid to sign their name to it, then they probably won't fight for it. There's nothing illegal about stating that you will not obey unconstitutional laws. Starting this effort will unite like-minded people and spread the message. As more people become informed and on our side, more people can become armed with 'illegal' weapons without repercussion, and hopefully politicians will make the necessary changes in Washington. And if the government still doesn't see it our way and still considers our weapons illegal, then they'll just have to come and take 'em.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:39:55 PM EDT
Maybe ETH can answer this: Is signing your name to a letter like this one illegal?
Originally Posted By newar15guy: we draft a letter. short and to the point. simply put, [red]we will no longer abide by federal gun legislation[/red] as the existing legislation is unconstitutional, therefore illegal.
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I wonder if just saying(and signing) it is legal. Only if/when you complete the act is when it becomes illegal.
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