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Posted: 12/16/2003 4:35:40 AM EDT
Well boys and girls, today our conservative Republican President is planning to sign the "American Dream Down Payment Act" into law. "Why Jarhead," you might say, "The American Dream sounds like a good thing, something any conservative Republican can get behind!"

The American Dream is success through hard work, but this American Dream is going to steal your money and mine to provide down payments and closing costs to "minorities" --however they're being defined today-- who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to buy a home.

This bill has everything that conservative Republicans can get behind: It's race-based, and punishes white people for being white. It punishes them by taking their money and giving it to other people who are chosen to receive the white people's money because they are not white.

Let's hear it for wealth redistribution and race-based social programs everyone! Yaaaaaaay!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:59:10 AM EDT
It's sad, but the only way to get votes anymore is with handouts. The Dems learned it long ago. Now the Reps are on the handout bandwagon. That's the only thing behind bills like this one and the prescription handout bill.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:11:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 5:12:48 AM EDT by liberty86]
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: Well boys and girls, today our conservative Republican President is planning to sign the "American Dream Down Payment Act" into law. "Why Jarhead," you might say, "The American Dream sounds like a good thing, something any conservative Republican can get behind!" The American Dream is success through hard work, but this American Dream is going to steal your money and mine to provide down payments and closing costs to "minorities" --however they're being defined today-- who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to buy a home. This bill has everything that conservative Republicans can get behind: It's race-based, and punishes white people for being white. It punishes them by taking their money and giving it to other people who are chosen to receive the white people's money because they are not white. Let's hear it for wealth redistribution and race-based social programs everyone! Yaaaaaaay!
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Ok.... Vote Tweedely-dee!! [<]:)] Btw, I thought the US [b]won[/b] the "war on communism"???? Maybe the communists won, took over Reagans party, and forgot to tell us?? [:P] Hopefully we'll do better in the "terror" war, 'cause if we don't we'll all be wearing rags on our heads, in twenty years!!! [devil]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:57:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Hopefully we'll do better in the "terror" war, 'cause if we don't we'll all be wearing rags on our heads, in twenty years!!!
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As long as certain elements in this administration are in bed with the al Saud, that's a possibility too.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:07:11 AM EDT
I think I am not voting for him. I really do think that I have been betrayed. We really need a revolution.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:08:28 AM EDT
Good grief! [banghead]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:10:27 AM EDT
Poor = can't yet afford a house. Only has one car, TV/VCR or computer. Does not have access to the internet. Does not have high speed cable modem (or whatever is the newest whiz bang crap). Can't afford private school for the hellspawns. Can't afford to buy their way into Harvard. Remember when poor meant that if you had a bad growing season, you wouldn't be able to feed your family? Remember when poor meant you didn't have electricity or running water? Times change, it appears.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:18:33 AM EDT
[url]www.kccall.com/news/2003/1010/KCK_Community/001.html[/url] [puke]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:26:10 AM EDT
Recognizing that the government alone cannot achieve this goal, the President called on the real estate, mortgage finance and homebuilding industries to join the Administration in our commitment to increasing homeownership rates for all Americans, but especially for minorities.
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Wow, I guess those businesses no longer have to make a profit. [i]Somebody[/i] has to pay. I just thought of something. I guess nobody has ever thought of this before. I could afford a new home if it weren't for the taxes I constantly pay! What a novel idea: allow people to save their own money.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:42:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 7:43:18 AM EDT by thejokker]
i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. michael dell is reportedly worth 15 billion dollars yet he is leading a destructive price war that is hurting small and medium businesses and leading the outsourcing of our jobs and technology to foreign countries. if large corporations will not invest in their country and countrymen i support an active role by the government to reverse the re-distribution of wealth from the middle-class to the wealthy and i support the republican party and the president in doing so... if you disagree with this particular bill what alternatives would you suggest to strengthen and preserve the american middle-class in a non-socialistic manner?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:45:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thejokker: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies.
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I don't understand this. The rich do keep getting richer, but the poor ALSO keep getting richer. America has the richest poor people on Earth. What divide are you talking about?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:46:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: ... [i]Somebody[/i] has to pay...
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'Making a profit is greed!' 'It's not my fault, I never had a chance!' 'There ought to be a law!' Who is John Galt? [:)] D(WaitingToVanishAndBecomeAPirate!!)Peacher
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:49:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thejokker: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies. michael dell is reportedly worth 15 billion dollars yet he is leading a destructive price war that is hurting small and medium businesses and leading the outsourcing of our jobs and technology to foreign countries. if large corporations will not invest in their country and countrymen i support an active role by the government to reverse the re-distribution of wealth from the middle-class to the wealthy and i support the republican party and the president in doing so... if you disagree with this particular bill what alternatives would you suggest to strengthen and preserve the american middle-class in a non-socialistic manner?
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It is amazing how many people want something for nothing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:51:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: ... [i]Somebody[/i] has to pay...
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'Making a profit is greed!' 'It's not my fault, I never had a chance!' 'There ought to be a law!' Who is John Galt? [:)] D(WaitingToVanishAndBecomeAPirate!!)Peacher
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SWEEEEEEEET [:D]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:56:13 AM EDT
Welcome to my world... [:(!] Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:03:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By deimos: Welcome to my world... [:(!] Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB
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You should write an in depth post fully explaining your experience [:)]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:12:31 AM EDT
Hey this sounds similar to the Veterans benefit I have. I am gauranteed a housing loan and have the closing cost or down payment added to the payments, except, this is even better. Man, instead of joining the Army I should have just not gotten a job. Now I know better.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:19:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:22:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sobekra70: I think I am not voting for him. I really do think that I have been betrayed. We really need a revolution.
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I know I am getting tired of voting for the "least bad" candidate.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:27:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:28:37 AM EDT
Good God....isn't 200+ years of institutionalized and governmant mandated racism enough? When are we going to stop this shit???? -HS
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:45:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By thejokker: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies.
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I don't understand this. The rich do keep getting richer, but the poor ALSO keep getting richer. America has the richest poor people on Earth. What divide are you talking about?
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I'm surprised you do not understand it because it is 100% correct. Look at US history in the early 20th century up to WWII. At no time in our history were we ever at as much risk of sliding into communism. And it was clearly the result of income disparity and a severely damaged middle-class. What do you think the New Deal was about? It was an attempt to pacify those who were on the verge of starting a revolution. The middle-class is shrinking. Many individuals who once had good manufacturing jobs now work at Wally World and Home Depot. Believe it or not, this could result in severe problems in the near future. I'm not fond of these programs either. I would much prefer a return of real jobs.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:46:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By deimos: Welcome to my world... [:(!] Handouts to get votes from the poor people that don't want to lift a fucking finger to get a damn job, all supported with middle cass taxes? Sounds pretty familiar to me... NsB
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You should write an in depth post fully explaining your experience [:)]
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One of these days I will, I'm on my full working peek right now, when it gets lower again I'll do so. Be warned, you'll not like it, as MANY of the stuff we're living right now is EXACTLY where the US is headed if some policies are not changed [:(] NsB
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:52:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Wow, folks! Being much older than most of y'all, I suppose that y'all have simply not seen the fine 1946 Frank Capra movie [b]It's a Wonderful Life[/b] as often as I have! Home ownership is an American ideal! As the senior Bailey responds when George tells him that he doesn't want to spend his life in a 'shabby little office' at the Bailey Bros Building & Loan: [b]"It's deep in the race for a man to want his own roof, walls, and fireplace. And we're helping him get those things in our 'shabby little office.'"[/b] Now, you may argue or quibble that the Federal Government simply has no right to encourage home ownership by ANYONE, whether low income folks, or the incredibly wealthy. But it has. And it has created a nation of homeowners, for better or for worse! Tell me, are any of you folks living in homes that are being purchased through mortages guaranteed by FHA or the VA? (I would bet that 80% of y'all are!) Do you insist on writing off your home mortgage interest payments as legitimate deductions on your income tax returns? (I would bet that 100% of y'all are!) Did you ever purchase a '235' home, as a starter home? So, I suppose that some Federal intrusion into the private marketplace is good, but some is not good. And, I further suppose, that it depends upon whether you are old Mr. Potter, or George Bailey of the Bailey Bros Building & Loan, if y'all think that is good for America or not? [:D] 'Look Daddy! Teacher says every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings' ~ ZuZu Bailey. Eric The(ClarenceOddbodyOfAR15.com)Hun[>]:)]
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No mention or reply to the fact that this program is race based. No acknowledgement that this program is not a tax deduction or a loan guarantee, but a grant. Oratory just won't cover the holes in that argument.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:02:41 AM EDT
Didn't the unions aid their own loss of manufacturing jobs by demanding pay in excess? I'm all for returning production jobs home before we turn into a complete service industry, but need to throw all the environmentalists in prison first, because they will do their best to curb industry.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:15:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I would be willing to bet that President Bush receives about, oh, [b]80% of the military's absentee votes[/b] next year! What do y'all think? So much for the 'least bad' candidate! I'll be voting with them! Eric The(HonestToGoddness)Hun[>]:)]
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Hear Hear ETH It is all starting to make sense now. You think about it. Home ownership has got to be the largest money wheel in this country. The more people that own homes the more money is circulating in the economy. Ever seen anybody invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in an apartment? No! Sometimes we need to look at these things as investments in our countries future. Not just, Oh no uncle sam is in my pocket again for a couple of bucks. Wah Wah Wah. I for one know this will increase my business and I'm not in real estate. Sanguine(The Optimistic)Sanguine
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:21:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: I don't understand this. The rich do keep getting richer, but the poor ALSO keep getting richer. America has the richest poor people on Earth. What divide are you talking about?
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As eloquently put by an emaciated Indian man: "I want to live in America where the poor people are fat."
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:27:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:49:50 AM EDT
I can't find any text that specifically excludes whites, but all the hype about this program is for raising home ownership rates among blacks and latinos. The President says it, the MBA (Mortgage Bankers of America) says it, Katherine Harris (R-FL) says it. I'm all for higher rates of minority home ownership too, but I don't think it's a goal worth [b]ME[/b] having to pay for! Is that too hard to understand? The federal government has every right to [b]encourage[/b] home ownership, absolutely. But this is not encouragement. This is a giveaway. Well, a takeaway then a giveaway. Taking it from those who earned it and giving it to those who have not. And make no mistake: this is a grant, not a loan, loan guarantee or any other device. The government, with the blessing of the President, is going to take money that I earned and could use to pay down my mortgage, and give it to someone else who has not earned it to pay theirs. If that's conservative, I need to find another movement with which to align myself.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:57:49 AM EDT
[b]Brother ETH!![/b] Yes, I have purchased both of my houses with the assistance of a VA loan. (I sold the first one to move to Texas when I left active duty 4 years ago.) Growing up, I was poor. In high school, my mother could only afford a small efficency apartment, so I slept in the kitchen. We did not have a car or cable TV. If it would not have been for government cheese and a close friend who owned a chicken farm and gave us eggs, I would have gone hungry several nights a week. I can still make one fine cheese omlette. The VA loan is a benefit I WORKED and SACRIFICED many years to EARN. I am still required to REPAY the entire loan on time. It is anything but free, and in order to get it, I and every other vet had to prove our worth to society by putting our lives on the line. These 'poor' Americans have the same options I had. If they REALLY want a house, they will WORK and SACRIFICE for it. Just like I did.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:06:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:09:21 AM EDT
It's a good program.. The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:12:06 AM EDT
And yet you support the President in this effort:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Now, you may argue or quibble that the Federal Government simply has no right to encourage home ownership by ANYONE, whether low income folks, or the incredibly wealthy. But it has. And it has created a nation of homeowners, for better or for worse!
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There is a difference between support for the President and slavish devotion to every utterance and stroke of his pen.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:18:01 AM EDT
Hey Eric, "I see your truuuuuu colors shinin through!" Too bad they aren't "beautiful like a rainbow." It's just kinda red... no white and blue...just red...as in Lenin. As in "You work and I'll take that money..." You've blown your cover man. Scott
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:20:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By thejokker: i am in no way supporting this particular issue but i am concerned about the general effects of globalization and the decline of the middle-class. i believe if the republican party is to continue to dominate our political process and preserve traditional american values it must maintain a large and prosperous middle class. if the divide between the rich and poor continues to grow it will ultimately result in the return of the democrats and their extremist policies.
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I don't understand this. The rich do keep getting richer, but the poor ALSO keep getting richer. America has the richest poor people on Earth. What divide are you talking about?
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i have a graphic at home (i'm currently at work) based upon statistics by "Business Week" that states the average hourly worker's income has remained unchanged since 1980 while the average CEO's salary has increased 1000%. michael dell is worth 15 billion dollars. it is a lie to suggest that he cannot afford to pay his workers health care or that he NEEDS to send technical jobs to india. business leaders in our countries history have SHARED their wealth with their employees and too many today are not... what is good for "big business" is not necessarily good for small and medium business. not investing in the middle class by the wealthy will result in civil discontent and result in a return to democratic (the party) values. conservative leaders NEED to encourage or even FORCE the wealthy to invest in america and americans in order to protect our traditional values from the democrats...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:22:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shake: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run.
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If people want out of section 8 housing, let them save their [b]OWN[/b] money and buy a house like my parents did. And how does this decrease the burden to the taxpayer? Do you think there's some shortage of poor people? Do you think that the Department of Homeland inSecurity is going to stop the constant in[s]vasion[/s]flux of new poor people so that we can quantify the number that will need this new government takeaway/giveaway program and hold them to that number? [b]OF COURSE NOT![/b] What federal tax and spend program has ever been repealed, even after its goals were met? The federal income tax was instituted to pay for World War One. Last I heard, that one was over a while back --it was in all the papers-- but maybe Congress just missed it. They should call this boondoggle what it is: The "One More Reason To Swim The Rio Grande" Act.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:23:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shake: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run.
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So we'll trade one evil for another? No thanks. How about get the burdens off the taxpayers period. Scott
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:23:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:26:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thejokker: michael dell is worth 15 billion dollars. it is a lie to suggest that he cannot afford to pay his workers health care or that he NEEDS to send technical jobs to india.
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Sour grapes? When you own Dell, you can run it however you please.... Scott
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:34:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 10:37:09 AM EDT by Scottman]
By the way, it's a GRANT, not a LOAN. The money is given with no expectation of repayment. Search google for +"American Dream" +Bush "The act creates a federal 'gift fund' that will provide $200 million in grants to more than 40,000 low-income families annually to low income and minority families looking to become homeowners." Nice...giving "gifts" with my money... Scott
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:36:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 10:43:59 AM EDT by Shake]
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By Shake: The more people they get off section 8 and into their own homes.. the lighter the burden becomes to the tax payer in the long run.
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If people want out of section 8 housing, let them save their [b]OWN[/b] money and buy a house like my parents did. And how does this decrease the burden to the taxpayer?
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you rather subsidize section8 recipients for the rest of their lives? Or give them a loan(Which has to be payed back)to help them purchase a home and get off the system.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:40:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:41:18 AM EDT
#1, It's not a loan #2, How's it going to get them "off the system." The only difference it will make is further enslavement which will require more handouts. As a homeowner, are there MORE or LESS monthly expenses than as a renter? Mortgage? Taxes? Insurance? Utilities? Maintenance and upkeep? These people don't have the money for that to begin with, but hey, using MY money, they can afford the closing costs, and later on they can have some MORE of MY money for new lawnmowers and roof repairs, and maybe the FED GOV will insure their mortgages with some MORE of MY money. Fucking socialist bullshit.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:43:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: What's the difference between a 'grant' for home ownership versus a 'grant' for education?
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One is for a home.... The other is for education.... Clearer? Scott
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:46:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shake: you rather subsidize section8 recipients for the rest of their lives? Or give them a loan(Which has to be payed back)to help them purchase a home and get off the system.
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You're entirely wrong. This is not a loan or loan guarantee program. It's a grant. A giveaway. A freebie. How many times do I have to say it? Do some research yourself and find out what's up.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:01:50 AM EDT
You guys look over it...I need my sleep right around now real bad. [URL]http://www.hud.gov/initiatives/blueprint/message.cfm[/URL]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:18:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: What's the difference between a 'grant' for home ownership versus a 'grant' for education? Eric The(Perplexed)Hun[>]:)]
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1. You can sit on your grant house for a few years and sell it for profit, or you can rent out a portion of your grant house for income. Why don't we just give them a check and let them spend it how they please? You write your first!! [:D] 2. You still have to put your grant education to WORK for your income. As for the other questions you had about VA loans. 1. They are provided to EVERY Honorably Discharged Vet and those on Active Duty with more then 180 days of active duty (not sure how the NG and Reserves are handled), REGARDLESS of rank, E-1 through O-10. The same benefit applies across the board. 2. There are caps to the amount for which the VA will underwrite, but is is rather substantial (about 180k I think, not sure, but anyone can look it up on the web...).
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:19:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Do not think for one moment that I think other than you do on this matter! It's just not a 'make or break' issue for me to decide whether or not to support President Bush's Reelection! As it is for some.... Eric The(Conservative)Hun[>]:)]
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Well, what issue, (or should I say issue[b]s[/b]), IS "make or break" for you?? Bush has expanded the education dept, and Medicare, has said he'll sign the AWB, did NOT have ashcroft SUPPORT the "silviera" appeal, (in FACT, OPPOSED it!), signed unconstitutional "campaign finance", continued the logging shutdown in the northwest, hasn't reversed ANY Clinton executive orders.... You are defending Karl Marx!! Bush has accomplished what Clinton only DREAMED of!! [snoopy]
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