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Posted: 12/15/2003 9:00:50 PM EDT
Any California residents know what if any effect the assault weapons ban sunset will have on us? Or will our own Caliban neutralize any changes?
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:03:01 PM EDT
Caliban predated Nastyban of Fineswine & Schumer. Our ban will still be in effect.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:03:14 PM EDT
HAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Your state law will still be in effect.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:03:26 PM EDT
it means its time for you to move [;)]
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:03:56 PM EDT
You guys can come east and watch us put are guns together the way God intended.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:07:05 PM EDT
In kommiefornistan, you are basically screwed. mooving is about your only option unless you can get those liberal antigun pussies out of office and get rid of aome gun laws.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:10:03 PM EDT
"Guns and Ammo" tv show has a nice little commentary about why hunters should worry about what happens to us "evil black rifle" type shooters. They note how as California gets worse, gun folks move out of the state. That allows the anti-gun lawmakers to get more and more aggressive, which causes the pro-gun folks to move out even faster. It's a dirty little cycle that feeds itself.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:24:53 PM EDT
If it sunsets wouldn tthat mean that we can make our registered AR's any way we want? Any configuration that is evil?
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:27:01 PM EDT
Yes unless your in Kalifornia. FREE
Originally Posted By Snorkel_Bob: If it sunsets wouldn tthat mean that we can make our registered AR's any way we want? Any configuration that is evil?
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Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:27:43 PM EDT
That's what I want to know...
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:32:11 PM EDT
Yep. As long as it is registered you can make it any way you want (as long as it stays semi-automatic). Since it already CA nasty any changes are to an already nasty and you can't make it any more wrong under the law. Actually I believe it post dated the Federal Law, but under States Rights, a State can make and enforce laws tougher than the Federal Law.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:35:34 PM EDT
The effect is that everone else will be going [nana] CW
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:37:57 PM EDT
Oregon welcomes Kaliforniastan refugees.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:40:34 PM EDT
I thought the ban actually was to be voted on as to whether it sunsets or not??
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 9:52:47 PM EDT by Greenhorn]
The "AW"B is countrywide. No state has the freedom to ignore it. This does not mean that a state cannot choose to keep the law even if it is not a national law anymore. I don't think anything will change in California. One of the few freedoms Kalifornistanians still have, unlike most communist/dictatorship nations, is the right to actually LEAVE the country. Take advantage of this freedom.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:51:56 PM EDT
If the national ban expires and you have a registered AR in CA, that means you'll be able to add an upper with a flash hider and bayonet lug and add a telescoping stock to it. Essentially you'll be able to make your legal postban into a legal preban.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:53:27 PM EDT
It means none of my AR's will have muzzle brakes, and they all will have flash supressors. A few may get collaspable stocks.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:57:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XLoWRyDaX: I thought the ban actually was to be voted on as to whether it sunsets or not??
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The AWB *WILL* sunset as that provision is written into the law. The issue is whether they will try and create another ban. Right now most of the proposals that the [s]socialist bastards[/s] democrats have floated are so draconian that no one will take them seriously. The republican majority have made many statements that they are not interested in any renewal of the ban and GWB has left himself an out by saying that he would sign a RENEWAL (note “renewal” not a strengthened ban) IF it reaches his desk. In other words, don’t send me one and I can’t sign it. It’s not a done deal yet but it’s not looking good for the anti-freedom types (for once). I’m planning to be out of this place by September 2004. I will celebrate the sunset in Free America by exercising my right to purchase large quantities of fine firearms that the Caliban have denied me as a mere peasant in this state.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:57:52 PM EDT
Hmmm...is it premature to start researching telescoping stocks? Standard, Vltor, Magpul, etc...looks like I'll have to start doing some research...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:03:27 AM EDT
When the Fed AWB sunsets, I'll still be here in CA, voting, buying what I can, and working the political angles. While my supposed ^%$#@! Brothers-In-Arms [b]laughp[/b] at me, and tell me to "Run/Move". &^$#%$ Pussies.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:58:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rayra: When the Fed AWB sunsets, I'll still be here in CA, voting, buying what I can, and working the political angles. While my supposed ^%$#@! Brothers-In-Arms [b]laughp[/b] at me, and tell me to "Run/Move". &^$#%$ Pussies.
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I understand how you feel, Leatherneck! But as of right now, the ballot box is not a viable method to recover lost freedom in Kali, and it is not time for the bullet box...YET. To me, looking from the free side of the State line, the smart move is to leave Kali while you can still sell your property and not take a loss, let the liberal commie bastards vote in their workers paradise and watch it collapse from within just like the 'Evil Empire' did. Then, if you like, move back once the dust settles and freedom is restored. Or sit there and wait for breathing to become a taxable activity so they can pay for illegal immigrants housing and medical... Vote with your feet. Your ancestors did, and so did mine!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:53:31 AM EDT
The CA Ban only applies to CENTREFIRE rifles so go ahead and buy a RIMIFIRE rifle and then add a folding stock once the Federal ban goes away. CRC
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:24:12 AM EDT
I think it means when I need a new upper, there will be no such thing as a "preban" upper, so I can get an upper with a bayo lug and FS.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:37:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: You guys can come east and watch us put are guns together the way God intended.
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with select fire? [:p]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:49:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: I think it means when I need a new upper, there will be no such thing as a "preban" upper, so I can get an upper with a bayo lug and FS.
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not in kali [:D]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:51:53 AM EDT
I think we need some clairfication from Troy on the impact of the federal awb sunset here in California. There are many different opinions/interpretations on what we will be able to do with our "registered" ar's. The Kaliban Penal code states: 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following: Rifles (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law. California purposely passed their ban with these requirements knowing that when the Fed ban sunsets, the states more restrictive law will still be in effect. I may be wrong.. but I think the only thing we get to add is a bayonet lug.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:55:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By -Absolut-: it means its time for you to move [;)]
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Yes, everyone in California with an "assualt" weapon," please move. It'll bring a housing crash and I can finally afford a house. I'll even help you pack. [:)]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:18:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By egaletti: I think we need some clairfication from Troy on the impact of the federal awb sunset here in California. There are many different opinions/interpretations on what we will be able to do with our "registered" ar's. The Kaliban Penal code states: 12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following: Rifles (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law. California purposely passed their ban with these requirements knowing that when the Fed ban sunsets, the states more restrictive law will still be in effect. I may be wrong.. but I think the only thing we get to add is a bayonet lug.
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No. The above, lists which guns needed to be registered and are no longer transferable in Kali unless you're exempt (LEO w/dept. auth.) or an FFL that is permitted to handle AWs. Your registered AW is still an AW regardless of whether you have the flash suppressor, telescoping stock or bayonet lug. Notice it says any ONE of the following. So you're AR is already an AW. Adding one of the other three items I listed won't make it any MORE of an AW. In Kali, there were no distinction between pre and post ban AWs. That distinction was only Federal.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:30:59 AM EDT
I agree with Mute. The regulations posted describe the features that make a rifle an "AW" and as such, require that it be registered under RR89/SB23. There is nothing in there that says we cannot add preban features to a registered "AW" after the ban ends. So, yes, we will be able to have the same preban features on our registered "AW" as anyone else.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:12:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mcgredo: If the national ban expires and you have a registered AR in CA, that means you'll be able to add an upper with a flash hider and bayonet lug and add a telescoping stock to it. Essentially you'll be able to make your legal postban into a legal preban.
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I don't recall any special exemption from SB23 for registered AWs. You might want to check the code before buying a bunch of stuff to convert your rifles to a pre 9/13/94 configuration.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:26:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RichinCM:
Originally Posted By mcgredo: If the national ban expires and you have a registered AR in CA, that means you'll be able to add an upper with a flash hider and bayonet lug and add a telescoping stock to it. Essentially you'll be able to make your legal postban into a legal preban.
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I don't recall any special exemption from SB23 for registered AWs. You might want to check the code before buying a bunch of stuff to convert your rifles to a pre 9/13/94 configuration.
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I don't understand what you mean by an exemption. When the ban sunsets next year we can add all the goodies to our registered AW's because Cali all ready deems them as AW's. How can it be any more of an AW? On the paperwork I sent in there was no distinction made between my Mini 14 with folding stock, pistol grip, and flash suppressor and my post ban AR15. They were both considered AW's by Cali law because they both had at least one of the no-no's.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:29:04 AM EDT
The CA law criteria define what's an AW in California and are therefore 1) banned from further sale, and 2) required to be registered. But it's in for a penny, in for a pound; once your weapon is registered, you can have as many evil features as you like. Right now the evil features count is limited by federal law. If the federal law goes away you can increase your evil feature count.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:36:41 AM EDT
It's really not that confusing guys. Say you own a postban Mini-14. It's not currently considered an AW under Cali law, so you didnt register it under SB23. When the Federal AWB sunsets, you would be able to put a PG, FS, or folding stock on the Mini-14, and not be in violation of Federal Law, but you WOULD be in violation of Cali law, becuase you would be manufacturing an AW as defined by Cali law. Say you own a Colt Match Target. It's not currently an AW under federal law, but it is under Cali law, so you registered it under SB23. When the Federal AW ban sunsets, you can add a collaspable stock or flash supressor, becuase the federal law was the only law preventing you from doing so.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:53:50 AM EDT
I agree with what has been said regarding adding more features legally. However, how long do you guys think it will be before the assholes in the KA legislature push for a new and more draconian ban? Even if it isn't done by Sept. 04 you can bet your asses they will (but probably already are) working on one and it will be passed by early 2005.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:30:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_G: I agree with what has been said regarding adding more features legally. However, how long do you guys think it will be before the assholes in the KA legislature push for a new and more draconian ban? Even if it isn't done by Sept. 04 you can bet your asses they will (but probably already are) working on one and it will be passed by early 2005.
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Ha! That's par for the course here in Kali. It's a given that every session there is some new gun law that just NEEDS to be put into law. Fucking assholes!!!!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:20:20 PM EDT
What total bullshit! I read all of these confusing assinine regulations and it just hit me right in the forehead! Why in the hell do you poor schmuks have ANY silly regs like that? I moved from Camarillo to Free Commonwealth of Virginia in 1996. I have a safe full of evil black rifles and pistols with tons of large cap mags for each. I've been told that with the possible exception of my Mossy M590 and my Mauser M98K, all my "arsenal" would be highly illegal in Kalifornistan now. Why? I really know why...but I can't help asking that rhetorical question. Shit...this is what happens when Democrats take over! I just spoke with my closest bud in Port Hueneme today. He spent about 1/2 hour trying to enlighten me about how he can no longer [legally] own his two beautiful and very pricey custom 1911s he just finished...and did I know anyone moving to CA soon (like another retired Navy guy...) so he could somehow (Don't ask how...I couldn't figure it out!) legally sell/transfer his pistolas to this accomodating "friend" then re-acquire the two pistols after the "new resident" moves into the state and takes up residence. WTF is up with THAT? I can't imagine having to live in those conditions and having to try and figure out what the fuck is legal...and what the fuck is NOT! Sheesh...what a pain in the arse! Really...I'm sorry for you dudes I left behind.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:41:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde: I have a safe full of evil black rifles and pistols with tons of large cap mags for each. I've been told that with the possible exception of my Mossy M590 and my Mauser M98K...
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Me too. And it is ALL 100 percent California legal! People who do not live in CA and do not read carefully all the laws should not give advice about those laws. There is a lot more that is legal here than most people outside CA think. Not that it couldn't be better of course. I stil can't have that orignal full auto BAR I want, even if I could afford it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:42:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaDanby: Yep. As long as it is registered you can make it any way you want (as long as it stays semi-automatic). Since it already CA nasty any changes are to an already nasty and you can't make it any more wrong under the law. Actually I believe it post dated the Federal Law, but under States Rights, a State can make and enforce laws tougher than the Federal Law.
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So, given that "state rights" bullshit, states can also ignore the First, Fifth, and any other amendment in the Bill of Rights as they see fit, huh?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcgredo: If the national ban expires and you have a registered AR in CA, that means you'll be able to add an upper with a [red]flash hider[/red] and bayonet lug and add a telescoping stock to it. Essentially you'll be able to make your legal postban into a legal preban.
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Gee, my prebans have flash suppressors. I don't think I have ever seen an AR with a flash hider on it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:44:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde: I just spoke with my closest bud in Port Hueneme today. He spent about 1/2 hour trying to enlighten me about how he can no longer [legally] own his two beautiful and very pricey custom 1911s he just finished...and did I know anyone moving to CA soon (like another retired Navy guy...) so he could somehow (Don't ask how...I couldn't figure it out!) legally sell/transfer his pistolas to this accomodating "friend" then re-acquire the two pistols after the "new resident" moves into the state and takes up residence. WTF is up with THAT?
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Funny. I bought all my pistols - a dozen or so, including a 1911 into the state without issue. They have to be on the approved pistol list but I don't think there's been a pistol to fail the test yet. Yeah, some of the custom gun makers aren't going to send samples to the state to test - don't blame them but there are plenty of Kimber, Springfield Armory, and Colt 1911's on that list. Your friend is slightly confused I'm willing to bet as he has 60 days to register handguns (only) once he comes into the state ... and unless he has his passport stamped on the way out of the free states the 60 days is only 60 days after the state can prove your residency. And of course federal laws protect you if you're just passing though. I just wish I didn't have to use my Washington, Illinois, or North Carolina driver's licenses to purchase firearms in Nevada [rolleyes]. When I'm done fighting the good fight I'll take my assualt weapons out with me and California will be a safer place right? I figure if I can hang on for another four years that I can sell my house for two or three times what I paid for it two years ago [lol] and buy a small county in another state [lol]. The only thing that's keeping me happy here is making $30,000-$50,000 a year on my house. The city is popping up smaller homes that mine less than a mile away at $350,000 which just warms my heart to no end. The state isn't going door-to-door yet so unless you are dumb enough to bring an unregistered weapon with you when you rob the local stop-n-rob you're not going to get caught (or possibly make a stupid boast on the Internet). I have yet to hear of any gun to gun searches at a public gun range either. Best guesses that I've seen and heard are that only a very small percentage of weapons were registered - as small as 10% by some estimates. That means that 90% of the people are really smart (or dumb) or that like me, they registered some of their weapons and others disappeared out-of-state ... or elsewhere. I paid my bucks for three AR's and an FAL and feel really comfortable where I sit. I was jones'ing for the first while I was here and only shot my Uncle's (Sams) M-16's from time-to-time. The guys that are really screwed are the kids 18 to 21 years old who couldn't buy a rifle before the ban or those old enough who didn't buy one when they had the chance. I bought one before the ban and another six or seven in the three years afterwards. There is a law suit that was sucessful and proved that the by-name banning was unlawful restraint of trade but the state's AG has been sitting on the finding for about a year IIRC and hasn't defined the impact of the ruling.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:28:58 PM EDT
Did he say why he can't own them? Unless it is some interpretation of manufacturing and therefore needing to pass the safety test. Otherwise I don't believe just modifying an existing pistol for personal use is a problem. Did he start with 80% or otherwise incomplete frames or with serialized frames and parts. As far as States Rights goes, if you don't understand that all of the amendments apply to the Federal Government and some have been ruled to apply to the the States and lower government entities, it will take too much space here to explain. Briefly the Second applies only to the Federal Government and not the States. This is why the various states can make their own state laws for firearms. It's also why until just a few years ago, church and state issues, pornography, etc was regulated at lower level. It's also why different states have different rules for Search and Seizure, Alcohol Control, etc etc etc.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:15:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By rayra: (clipped)
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I understand how you feel, Leatherneck! But as of right now, the ballot box is not a viable method to recover lost freedom in Kali, and it is not time for the bullet box...YET. ... ... Vote with your feet. Your ancestors did, and so did mine!
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Sorry, but my ballot box works just fine. Threw Davis out. In 2006 it will put McClintock In. It's given the Democrats a drubbing, and will continue to do so. Just look at the Recall election results. The tide is turning. - http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/recall/mapN4031008084428.gif http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/summary.html Look at the vote tallies in that last link. Schwarzeneggar may not be the best choice for the Right, but it was enough to get Davis out. Now we work on the rest. And the more Dems attempt to obstruct Schwarzeneggar's reform efforts, the more damage they'll take. I expect some more seats to flop in Nov04. I've got a lot of family, spouse-family, career, real estate ties, enjoy all the Good things in and throughout this State. So, no Running, I'll stay and Fight, all the way.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:43:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: The guys that are really screwed are the kids 18 to 21 years old who couldn't buy a rifle before the ban or those old enough who didn't buy one when they had the chance. I bought one before the ban and another six or seven in the three years afterwards.
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[}:(] I'm in that boat, I wasn't old enough to buy a rifle when the ban went into effect. It really sucks.....
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:59:16 AM EDT
as I like to say, "you be f***ed!"
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