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Posted: 12/12/2003 3:22:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:34:04 PM EDT
I think I would try to subdue him. If he came at me he would never be seen again. Shovel and cotton field.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:44:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 3:46:28 PM EDT by 8531sgt]
If you have ascertained that the person is not armed you are in no shoot land unless otherwise threatened. Even in your house you'd better be in imminent fear of harm. I know you're "legally" OK to shoot either way but you'd be lookin pretty poor in front of the grand jury if you did. That aside, I could care less what age a burglar is, if you're in my house, specially during sleepy time hours, you better have your run fast shoes on when you wake up the dog, & if ya still got fight in ya the colt will do the rest. There's been lots of minors convicted of very serious felonys, just because they may be of younger age does not make them less a threat. And I too know guys that say, "when I was a kid...." but they are also the first ones to say how LUCKY they were cause they coulda been dead real easy.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:44:53 PM EDT
It depends on how the situation felt. If I walked into my house with my wife at 2:00 AM and I caught somebody in my house, I would break leather and confront him. If he did a "What you gonna do motherfucker?" I would ventilate him, no problem whatsoever. If he looked scared and ran out a window, I would just let him go probably and proceed to clear the rest of the house.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:48:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DOW: It depends on how the situation felt. If I walked into my house with my wife at 2:00 AM and I caught somebody in my house, I would break leather and confront him. If he did a "What you gonna do motherfucker?" I would ventilate him, no problem whatsoever. If he looked scared and ran out a window, I would just let him go probably and proceed to clear the rest of the house.
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Excelent reply! I could edit my post to say that and make it look like you copied me but that would make me a dickhead.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:55:26 PM EDT
Wouldnt shoot unless he was visibly armed or if he was approaching me and not stopping after being warned.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:57:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DOW: It depends on how the situation felt. If I walked into my house with my wife at 2:00 AM and I caught somebody in my house, I would break leather and confront him. If he did a "What you gonna do motherfucker?" I would ventilate him, no problem whatsoever. If he looked scared and ran out a window, I would just let him go probably and proceed to clear the rest of the house.
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Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme" addresses this type of scenario. Kid has a handful of TV, it'll be tough to explain you shooting them. And despite the criminal aspects, it's almost certain you'll have a civil suit to look forward to. Bottom line - you don't shoot someone just 'cause you can. You shoot them 'cause you had no other choice.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:01:07 PM EDT
An infected zombie kid, YES !
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:02:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 4:03:11 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
WTF? Simply finding a stranger in your house is NOT legal (or moral) grounds to start blasting away no questions asked. ESPECIALLY if there's no [i]reasonable[/i] belief that your life is in immediate danger.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:03:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Originally Posted By DOW: It depends on how the situation felt. If I walked into my house with my wife at 2:00 AM and I caught somebody in my house, I would break leather and confront him. If he did a "What you gonna do motherfucker?" I would ventilate him, no problem whatsoever. If he looked scared and ran out a window, I would just let him go probably and proceed to clear the rest of the house.
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Excelent reply! I could edit my post to say that and make it look like you copied me but that would make me a dickhead.
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On the other hand, I, can just snap it up, and say, "yup, that's just what I was gonna say"... [:D] I'll add, I WOULD see that 9 inch screwdriver in his hand.... [;D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:04:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: WTF? Simply finding a stranger in your house is NOT legal (or moral) grounds to start blasting away no questions asked. ESPECIALLY if there's no [i]reasonable[/i] belief that your life is in immediate danger.
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if someones in your house without your permission, i'd say that's good reason to belive they mean you harm are there any states where it's legal to shoot trespassers? myself, i probably wouldn't shoot without seeing a weapon. i'd sure as heck draw on a kid and get rid of him.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:15:58 PM EDT
Again?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:17:38 PM EDT
Here in NC it's illegal to shoot someone in your house unless you feel your life (or family's) is threatened, so... no. You can, however shoot someone who is in the process of trying to break into your house (in a window or doorway). Not once inside or ontheir way out. Weird.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:19:48 PM EDT
If I was to find someone in house.... I would try to advise them they are under citizens arrest, and a few other things. It would up to them if they wanted to wait for the Sheriff or the Coroner.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:20:34 PM EDT
Doesnt everone keep a Hi-point or Raven for this very reason? [:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:20:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:22:03 PM EDT
Fuck it, I'd shoot, being in my house at night with th elights out sneaking around? with the number of knives, axes, bayonettes, and well, everythign I own? He would have to have armed himself by then, so yup, dead thief
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:23:47 PM EDT
I have 2 huge dogs (Akita and a Great Dane) he would have to play with first so this scenerio would never happen in my house anyways.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:26:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: WTF? Simply finding a stranger in your house is NOT legal (or moral) grounds to start blasting away no questions asked. ESPECIALLY if there's no [i]reasonable[/i] belief that your life is in immediate danger.
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if someones in your house without your permission, i'd say that's good reason to belive they mean you harm
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No not necessarily at all. Could even just be a drunk kid trying to sneek back into his house but too drunk to know who's house he's in. BUT... once I was drawn on him - if the kid made ANY move at all that I viewed as "threatening" he'd be a big carpet stain.
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: myself, i probably wouldn't shoot without seeing a weapon. i'd sure as heck draw on a kid and get rid of him.
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Oh absolutely. Absofuckinglutely!
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:29:35 PM EDT
I go along with the post by DOW with the single change that if I thought he was there for my children, he would die. No way I am chancing him getting out and I don't know it; and maybe he's looking for a second chance or revenge. The stories I read about kids geetting taken just leave me cold.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:00:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 5:03:13 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=218501[/url] [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=218421[/url] Stuff like this, and I am supposed to worry about shooting a kid?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:18:53 PM EDT
There's no way he could not wake my pair of tactical cockatiels. The screeching alone would make the kid run for his life. CW
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:20:07 PM EDT
BTW, change the question to "her" instead of "him". Same answer? CW
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:24:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: WTF? Simply finding a stranger in your house is NOT legal (or moral) grounds to start blasting away no questions asked. ESPECIALLY if there's no [i]reasonable[/i] belief that your life is in immediate danger.
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I tend to disagree. If I find anyone in my home, it can be [r]reasonably[/r] expected that they are there to do me harm. Too many victims have died at the hands of burglars that only wanted property. If I found anyone in my home, I would clear leather and attempt to subdue. If that individual made any move at all that was contrary to what I tell him/her, they would gain a new orifice. Of course, I would fire to "incapacitate" which may be a little difficult at night, in the dark......
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:30:09 PM EDT
I have a .45 and a shovel.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:35:43 PM EDT
Kid breaking into my home!!!! First I'd attempt to dial 911 While I'm on hold waiting for the cops I'd shoot the bastard weapon or not. After the dirtbags' relatives file the civil suit against me. I in turn will file a suit against the city for not protecting me from theiving assclowns.(Heaven forbid that a common citizen would try to defend himself and actually cause harm to the perp.) The cops job is to use the chalk and he sure as hell won't be chalking me. Refuse to be a victim...Ban crime not firearms.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:35:56 PM EDT
90% of those who chose the first answer would probably piss their pants and jump out the window screaming. This is not as "Clint Eastwood" as it sounds, in the back of your head you have to remember the implications of a shoot, you are probably going to jail that night and maybe longer depending on how the investigation goes. Then you have the possible criminal and for sure the civil trials. His family will be on the stand crying that yea, he had a rap sheet a mile long but he just started going to church and although he was all drugged out that night he still liked to help the little kids in his 'hood. Everyone who ever knew this fine upstanding yet misunderstood man will try and make themselves rich at your expense.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:08:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: 90% of those who chose the first answer would probably piss their pants and jump out the window screaming. This is not as "Clint Eastwood" as it sounds, in the back of your head you have to remember the implications of a shoot, you are probably going to jail that night and maybe longer depending on how the investigation goes. Then you have the possible criminal and for sure the civil trials. His family will be on the stand crying that yea, he had a rap sheet a mile long but he just started going to church and although he was all drugged out that night he still liked to help the little kids in his 'hood. Everyone who ever knew this fine upstanding yet misunderstood man will try and make themselves rich at your expense.
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Whatever happened to the time honored tradition of planting evidence? CW
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:19:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior: Whatever happened to the time honored tradition of planting evidence? CW
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Oh, don't worry....you will be accused of that too.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:27:59 PM EDT
If you've not trained, trAined, TRAINED, you will second guess, and even then you'll have second thoughts going through your head ( if you're normal that is), but if you're trained amd comfortable in your training those thoughts will be secondary to your reactions, which must be relied upon to save you and yours. If a BG is a threat you worry about the other stuff later & remember to be glad that you're alive to worry about it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:31:37 PM EDT
Arent you supossed to yell "STOP!" when you draw on them? I dont have any experience with CCW (Im only 18), but from what Ive read on this board a shoot in this situation isnt right.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:33:04 PM EDT
yes....but only 3 times [:P]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:41:45 PM EDT
Hell yeah, I'd shoot first and ask questions later. How do you know its a kid? Maybe just a small man. Here in Texas, you have the right to shoot to protect your property at nighttime. You don't even have to worry about arguing your "perceived" personal danger.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:53:00 PM EDT
Age 16-18 doesn't qualify in my book as a kid. More than likely this person would be shot as I would assume anyone who would break into my home while I was there a threat to my life and the life of my family. Bill3508
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:07:25 PM EDT
In Colorado, it doesn't matter how old they are, if they are in your house uninvited, then you can consider them a threat. If you shoot them you are protected by law from a civil suit. Colorado, home of the 'make my day law'
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:34:17 PM EDT
I would shoot only if they presented a threat. I heard someone running on my roof once, and ran outside with a rifle, just to find out it was my cousin. I once woke up in the middle of the night, to find someone opening up the door to my apartment. I grabbed a makarov, and went to meet him. Turned out it was a cop, letting me know that some kids were messing with my car. I had forgotten to lock my front door, he opened it. (Stupid me and stupid cop) It's a good thing I waited to identify the threat, cause I would have been severely outgunned with just a .380 mak You have to take the time to identify and gauge the threat level. Anything else is irresponsible.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:54:36 PM EDT
From cover, weapon drawn, finger on the trigger, command issued, kid has mere seconds to decide his fate. He's leaving in a squad car or body bag, not running off in his Nike's. Thank God Florida is a Castle Domain & felony murder state.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:03:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: I have 2 huge dogs (Akita and a Great Dane) he would have to play with first so this scenerio would never happen in my house anyways.
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Hey I'm a killer Wolf-boy two dogs two bullets then I'm comming to get you! Think about dogs as gods gift to the gunless,when they yell you bale! They are there to wake you and the AR/15 up! Bob
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:09:06 PM EDT
Who said you have to call the cops? just get a tarp and a shovel. See problem solved [:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:14:42 PM EDT
Of course in CA you can shoot first and not worry later. We might have bad gun laws but we got a great defense in the nome law. (From the Penal Code) 198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred. As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury. 199. The homicide appearing to be justifiable or excusable, the person indicted must, upon his trial, be fully acquitted and discharged.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:19:48 PM EDT
One kid got shot down here about a month ago- I know it's not really a rare thing anymore, but the circumstances were somewhat... infuriating. The kid did one of those knock-on-the-door pranks, that you knock and run away. Well, while he was running, some SOB opened the door and shot him in the back.... he didn't even get arrested.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 8:24:47 PM EDT by bobbyjack]
But to answer the question no I would not kill a kid or anyone that just didn't want to die! On the news tonight I see where the store I used to work at was robbed at .45 gunpoint! My friend was in the cooler stocking then came out sat down and was smoking a cig when the perp pulled a .45 on him! He was confident that the gangs were his friend and just let down for a secound,and didn't see the black man with a mask and dark sun glases come into the store! Its good that I quit working there in June 03,cause I allways carried a ,45acp on my hip and told every body that happened to see it that I would not ever kill anyone for one dollar or ten million dollars! But I would never give up the money that belonged to my friend,and to get it they would have to hurt me! And that is when I would draw the line,if you try to hurt me then that is when I will kill you! I an glad that I was not there as gunplay would have been a real thing! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:34:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 8:34:48 PM EDT by Cold_Warrior]
No answers on the gender change question? CW
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:36:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: I have 2 huge dogs (Akita and a Great Dane) he would have to play with first so this scenerio would never happen in my house anyways.
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Hey I'm a killer Wolf-boy two dogs two bullets then I'm comming to get you! Think about dogs as gods gift to the gunless,when they yell you bale! They are there to wake you and the AR/15 up! Bob
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What I was saying is [b]this[/b] scenario is never going to happen in my house because if the bad guy shoots my dogs then there is no "do I shoot the poor little 17-18 year old" or not. If my dogs were dead and he didn't shoot them (knife) he still dies, a jury wouldn't have a problem with that I don't think. I would think 90% of criminals would pick another house anyways if they open a door and see two huge dogs, only a maniac would want the fight and the chance to wake the owner, if they weren't afraid of waking the owner they would just ring the bell, right?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:41:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:49:43 PM EDT
All you folks who said you would shoot would also find yourself charged with murder, at least in my state. You cannot use deadly force to protect property. Requirement is that you must reasonably believe you are in imminent threat of harm of a deadly nature.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:15:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tortfeasor: All you folks who said you would shoot would also find yourself charged with murder, at least in my state. You cannot use deadly force to protect property. Requirement is that you must reasonably believe you are in imminent threat of harm of a deadly nature.
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See PaDanby's reply. [nana] CW
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:52:06 AM EDT
48% would shoot, no questions? I guess these 48% have never taken a CCW class. [rolleyes] AB
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:17:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2003 8:18:46 AM EDT by Sukebe]
A 16 to 18 year old "kid" beaking into my home? Yes, hell yes. I'd shoot him twice. I'd shoot him as many times as it takes. I had a friend (loose term) in High School who decided to become a burglar. He started out with "nobody home" houses. He quickly went to the cat burglar level. The thrill just seemed to get the best of him. He graduated to burglar/rapist. A short step to burglar/savage, sadistic beating just for kicks/rapist. On to burglar/kidnapper/savage, sadisitc beating for kicks/rapist/murderer. On to Death Row. He may be the exception but I won't stop to anylize a burglars intentions. Give me a chance and you are dead.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:37:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2003 8:38:33 AM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By albob: 48% would shoot, no questions? I guess these 48% have never taken a CCW class. [rolleyes] AB
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Apparently you've never heard the term "Vicarious liability". Your CCW instructor is teaching the letter of the law. If he says shoot anyone who breaks into your home regardless of what the law says, when you do he'll get sued. However, when you hesitated because your CCW instructor taught you the law and now your dead, your survivors can't sue him. Things are a little fuzzier in the real world. Your defense is that you were in fear of your life and/or the lives of anyone else in your home. The test is what the average, reasonable person would believe under the same circumstances. Maybe "no questions" is a bit vague but I certainly wouldn't go over his life story. If you have the drop on him and he's not threatening I suppose there's no rush to shoot him. Take your time and see if he takes aggressive action. I suppose there's just too many ways a situation like this can go to give one definitive answer. To say "hesitate and your dead" is just as unrealisitc as saying "wait to see what his intentions are". The circumstances dictate your actions. My first assumption upon finding someone in my home is that they have bad intentions but thats just me.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 9:03:29 AM EDT
Shooting someone in the house leaves such a nasty mess that you if not arrested or your family if arrested will have to clean up or pay someone to clean up. It will probably be hell on your finances too. Lawyers and all. My vote reflects this. If he was visibly armed and made any other move than dropping the weapon He would be one hurt SOB
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