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Posted: 12/12/2003 3:14:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:23:49 PM EDT
Interesting. From the Article it looks like Keislers handled the sale. a 9mm Glock seems like a logical choise for the savages in that part of the world. Common ammo, simple operation, relibel in sandy enviroment..
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:30:30 PM EDT
So it's OK for our law enforcement agencies to not buy American, but the Iraqis have to? Do as I say not as I do, I guess. May I suggest to those companies that didn't hear about the bid to be a little more proactive in the future? You know the new Iraqi police will have to buy new firearms. You are in the business of selling firearms. I would suggest you make contact with the agency that will buy the Iraqis new firearms and not sit around waiting for a phone call that may never come.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:35:03 PM EDT
Let's see: Cost of shipping Glocks made in USA FROM USA to Iraq -VS- Cost of shipping Glocks made in Austria to Iraq. DUUUHHHH?????? Stupid, greedy beltway boys whining because a few guns COULD have been made in their district. Some OTHER stupid beltway boy will whine because "U.S. Gov't. money was WASTED" in shipping Glocks from USA to Iraq. [slap]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:43:49 PM EDT
I'd be upset too if they tried to give me that damn glock POS![flame][:D]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:47:27 PM EDT
Glocks are not made in the US. The EPA will not allow the tennifer process. In effect, the guns were made in Austria, shipped to and assembled in Georgia, shipped to Kiesler's, and shipped from Kiesler's to the CPA. Hardly a direct route. I wonder if Kiesler's offered a package deal: Glocks and the Uncle Mike's Holsters?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:20:40 PM EDT
Wow I have bought stuff from, Doug Kiesler, a firearms wholesaler based in Jeffersonville, Ind.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:08:25 PM EDT
The bottom line should be- no national participation in Iraq = no contracts for ANY company based in that country. They should have given them Rugers. At least they didn't give them Berettas! ==Bob
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:13:29 PM EDT
… the CPA is under significant pressure to hastily equip new Iraqi military and police forces, a factor that could preclude its ability to rely solely on competitive procurement practices. …
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Probably the real explanation. Normal government purchase procedures are incredibly convoluted and time consuming. I can see where something like this plain and simply needs to get done now!
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:15:45 PM EDT
19,000,000/50,000= $380 per unit. I would imagine that a slightly better deal could be brokered for such a large quantity, especially since Glock practically gives blow jobs as part of their LEO discount. The cynic in me wants to scream "kickback", but what the hell would we be giving the Austrians money for?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:51:38 PM EDT
Guess that BATF deal is working out very well for them. With 50,000 guns sold in one deal, no wonder they don't mind if us peons don't own guns anymore.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:27:46 PM EDT
Must have bought Glocks to piss of the UN (recalling recent story of UN security dweebs being afraid of their own weapons).
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:52:10 PM EDT
Why would they bother to bring guns into the country? More than enough serviceable weapons in the country already. Let's see if you wanted a 9mm that bad, the Iraqi army used the Browning HP. Just what the hell are the Ordnance people doing anyway? I thought it was SOP to round up all weapons left on the field. No pistols in that pile of captured weaponry? Just curious. It seems like a refrigerators to Eskimos deal to me. G
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:06:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Common ammo, simple operation, relibel in sandy enviroment..
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No flame intended but, after reading this article, I disagree. By Larry Vickers Sand Test Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening. Pistols tested were; HK USP Customized 1911 rack grade GI 1911 Glock 21 Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow; 1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed. 2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster. 3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well. 4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better. 5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better. 6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well. Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years. The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement. The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read. Hope you got something out of this - I did.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 2:17:47 AM EDT
Nobody should buy anything from Kieslers, who refuses to sell ammo to New York State.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 4:50:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dport: May I suggest to those companies that didn't hear about the bid to be a little more proactive in the future? You know the new Iraqi police will have to buy new firearms. You are in the business of selling firearms. I would suggest you make contact with the agency that will buy the Iraqis new firearms and not sit around waiting for a phone call that may never come.
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Thank you for that insightful business lesson. I'll bet you're a Harvard MBA. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 6:10:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Nobody should buy anything from Kieslers, who refuses to sell ammo to New York State.
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I wouldn't sell anything to NY either, unless it was an earthquake so it can fall off into the ocean. Hopefully NJ would go with it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:32:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2003 7:42:01 AM EDT by dport]
Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
Originally Posted By dport: May I suggest to those companies that didn't hear about the bid to be a little more proactive in the future? You know the new Iraqi police will have to buy new firearms. You are in the business of selling firearms. I would suggest you make contact with the agency that will buy the Iraqis new firearms and not sit around waiting for a phone call that may never come.
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Thank you for that insightful business lesson. I'll bet you're a Harvard MBA. [rolleyes]
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I'll bet you're a nice guy in person, but you're an jerk on the internet. Yor comment served no useful purpose. If you disagree with what I posted then at least have the courtesy to point out why you disagree instead of initiating a personnal attack. I hate to see rampant whining about contracts out there. If a company isn't being proactive, and it seems Kieslers, not Glock, was, then tough shit. The Harvard MBA thing reminds me of what Ben Rich, a Harvard Business School graduate, once wrote. 2/3 * HBS=BS
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 9:50:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
Originally Posted By dport: May I suggest to those companies that didn't hear about the bid to be a little more proactive in the future? You know the new Iraqi police will have to buy new firearms. You are in the business of selling firearms. I would suggest you make contact with the agency that will buy the Iraqis new firearms and not sit around waiting for a phone call that may never come.
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Thank you for that insightful business lesson. I'll bet you're a Harvard MBA. [rolleyes]
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[red]I'll bet you're a nice guy in person, but you're an jerk on the internet. Yor comment served no useful purpose. If you disagree with what I posted then at least have the courtesy to point out why you disagree instead of initiating a personnal attack.[/red] I hate to see rampant whining about contracts out there. If a company isn't being proactive, and it seems Kieslers, not Glock, was, then tough shit. The Harvard MBA thing reminds me of what Ben Rich, a Harvard Business School graduate, once wrote. 2/3 * HBS=BS
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Well, let's see... You accuse me of a personal attack for calling you a Harvard MBA, then reciprocate by calling me a jerk. I'm supposed to point out why I disagree with you when you offer only mindless gobblygook with which to disagree. And my comment served an extraordinarily useful purpose. It allowed me to vent my spleen at an idiotic supposition without punching my monitor and hurting my hand. Oh yeah, what does a quote from an airplane builder have to do with handgun contracts?
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 1:03:37 PM EDT
1911shootist, The quote from an aircraft builder had absolutely nothing to do with it. I just like the quote that's all.[:)] Mindless gobblygoo? Alright. I guess I'll just assume you know more about gov't contracts than I do. Of course, if that was the case you could have educated me. I'm sorry you missed the opprotunity to set me straight. I would have much appreciated the education. As it stands I see that it is no use discussing matters with you any further. Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 1:22:38 PM EDT
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