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Posted: 12/12/2003 12:13:09 PM EDT
www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/12/sprj.nirq.west.ruling/index.html


U.S. officer fined for harsh interrogation tactics
Friday, December 12, 2003 Posted: 3:00 PM EST (2000 GMT)

West, right, was fined $5,000 and will be reassigned while he awaits retirement.

TIKRIT, Iraq (CNN) -- The commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division's on Friday accepted a U.S. military investigator's recommendation and ordered administrative action against Lt. Col. Allen West, who was accused of using improper methods to force information out of an Iraqi detainee.

Following a military hearing, West was fined $5,000 over two months, according to West's civillian attorney, Neal Puckett.

The punishment does not affect West's eligibility for retirement and pension, Puckett said in a statement.

West, 42, will be assigned to the rear detachment of the 4th Infantry Division awaiting the processing of his retirement request, the statement said.

Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the 4th Infantry's top general in Tikrit, could have rejected the recommendation and ordered a court martial. If he were to be found guilty at a court martial of the two articles against him, West could have faced 11 years in prison, a military prosecutor told CNN.

The case stems from an incident August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy.

In testimony at an Article 32 hearing -- the military's version of a grand jury or preliminary hearing -- West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body.

West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.

Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.

West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.

"I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers," West testified to a military courtroom of observers and some teary-eyed troops formerly under his command.


Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."

Puckett argued that because West is always accompanied by U.S. troops that he acted to save American lives.

But while West's supporters call him a hero, military prosecutors said his actions amounted to torture and violated articles 128 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska said West should be tried for assault and for communicating a threat. "This is a case about a man who lost his temper," she argued. "There are consequences for [West's] actions."



Yes, some pussy ratted him out and the repurcussions are that MORE US soldiers were killed after he left his post.


When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired."

After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life.



We're not there to win wars or protect our servicemen, are we? Next thing you know, we'll be issuing our soldiers "glow sticks" (Demolition Man) and will protect the "civil rights" of those who fight us. What's wrong with our country anyway???
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:18:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life.
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Proud to have you Colonel. We need two new US Senators.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:42:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:51:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Man, oh man. [pissed]
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Amen. [banghead] Watch the bitch run for Mayor of Berkeley on an "I fucked over a military puke who actually tried to fight the war" ticket... [pissed]
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:54:47 PM EDT
1. Send Paul Bremer home. 2. Appoint LtCol West administrator of Iraq. 3. STFB.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:57:37 PM EDT
Ticket punchers like the bitch trying to prosecute him are the reason I didn't like the regular Army. They're everywhere and don't care about soldiers. They just want to look good at any cost. I'd love to smack that bitch in the face. I would never normally hit a woman, but this might be the one exception.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 12:58:15 PM EDT
STFB should be #1 IMO
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 1:02:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 1:14:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Has the United States ever 'won the peace' after winning a war? I can't think of a single instance where we came out good all the way around! These idiots think the war is over, but, in truth, it's still largely 'unwon' so long as our men are being killed on an almost daily basis! And I place the blame squarely at the feet of the President! He has allowed the shithook DEMOS, and their incredible and unending criticism of the war to stampede him into making choices that were not healthy for our troops! BULLSHIT! This fine man better find some better advisors pretty damn quick! Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]
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I was with you until you included the Dem's. Remember with the Presidency, the buck stops there. It is squarely on Bush.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 1:59:00 PM EDT
Additional information shoring up West's argument. In case you didn't know, November was the deadliest month for allied troops being killed by the camel fuckers. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/30/sprj.irq.main.1600/index.html[/url]
Deadliest month for Iraq coalition Sunday, November 30, 2003 Posted: 5:19 PM EST (2219 GMT) TIKRIT, Iraq (CNN) -- Fifteen people have been killed in five weekend attacks on troops, diplomats, agents and contractors from countries participating in the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq. The attacks came at the close of the deadliest month for coalition forces since the war began, but U.S. and coalition officials reiterated their determination to stay in Iraq despite such strikes. ....................... Earlier, two South Korean power company contractors were killed and two others wounded, one critically, in an attack in northern Iraq, South Korean officials said. On Saturday, Iraqi insurgents killed seven Spanish intelligence agents and wounded another as their convoy moved south from Baghdad. Spain's defense minister called the highway ambush an "assassination." Two Japanese diplomats and their Iraqi driver were shot and killed near Tikrit when they made a stop for food en route to an Iraqi reconstruction conference, U.S. military and Japanese officials said. Assailants armed with rocket-propelled grenades and small arms ambushed a U.S. military convoy east of Qusaybah near Iraq's border with Syria, killing two U.S. soldiers and wounding another, according to the Coalition Press Information Center. And coalition officials say a civilian -- a senior security representative of a U.S. company providing contracted services in Iraq -- was shot and killed Saturday as he drove to a U.S. base north of Baghdad near Balad. The representative was a citizen of Colombia and an employee of Kellogg Brown & Root Services, a subsidiary of Halliburton Co., U.S. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said. Colombia is among the members of the coalition. With the deaths of the two U.S. soldiers Saturday, the number of coalition troops killed in Iraq during November reached 100 -- more than in March or April, when the war was in full force. Eighty-eight of the soldiers died under hostile fire. The deaths include 81 Americans, 17 Italians killed in the bombing of the Italian military headquarters in Nasiriya, a British soldier who died in a traffic accident and a Polish major killed when his convoy was shelled. (Deaths by month) And the U.S. military Sunday admitted the downing of two Black Hawk helicopters, which collided in midair over Mosul, was probably the result of a rocket-propelled grenade fired at one of the aircraft. Army officer Col. Joe Anderson said that while the investigation into the November 15 crash is not conclusive, "it appears that the collision was caused by one of them being hit by something from the ground, probably a rocket." A coalition spokesman said Iraqi insurgents "are trying to break the coalition's will." "The overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people are grateful for the liberation, and they don't want us to leave," Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senyor said. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, a coalition military spokesman, said the attacks reflected the insurgents' apparent shift from military targets to civilian or diplomatic "soft" targets. "We have said for the last couple of weeks that we have seen the enemy starting to attack soft targets, Iraqi targets, rather than military targets," Kimmitt said. "He is attempting to intimidate the people of Iraq. He will not succeed." In Madrid, a transport plane carrying the bodies of the seven slain Spaniards landed Sunday night at an air base near the capital. Coalition forces secure the road near where seven Spanish intelligence agents were killed in Iraq. Earlier, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar told his nation in a televised address that Spain would stay in Iraq and continue to support the U.S-led coalition despite the agents' deaths. (Full story) Spain has about 1,300 troops in Iraq stationed in the Polish-controlled sector of the country between Baghdad and Basra. The Japanese victims were identified as Katsuhiko Oku, 45, who worked for the Japanese Embassy in London and who had been in Iraq for several months, and Masamori Inoue, 30, who worked for the Japanese Embassy in Baghdad. Foreign Minister Yoriko Kawaguchi said the attack occurred as the two men were traveling to attend an Iraqi reconstruction conference. "There's no change in the Japanese government's foreign policy," Kawaguchi said. Japan will not close its embassy in Baghdad and officials are not considering reducing staffing levels there, she added. (Full story) Hours before Saturday's attacks, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, head of coalition ground forces in Iraq, told reporters that attacks against coalition forces in Iraq had dropped by 30 percent over the past two weeks. He said the average of 22 engagements per day over the past week was down from more than 35 per day in prior weeks. That trend, however, has reversed for Iraqis working with the U.S.-led coalition. Since the start of Ramadan, attacks on Iraqis have more than doubled, Sanchez said, noting in the 32 days since the start of the Muslim holy month, 74 attacks had been directed against Iraqi civilians and government officials and 82 attacks against Iraqi security forces.
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Link Posted: 12/12/2003 2:13:02 PM EDT
Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska said West should be tried for assault and for communicating a threat. "This is a case about a man who lost his temper," she argued. "There are consequences for [West's] actions."
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[b]This PC shit has to stop[/b] we are beating ourselves, all the enemy has to do is stand and watch.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 2:33:01 PM EDT
Capt. Magdalana is about to find herself prosicuting jaywalkers at Ft. Leonard Wood... There will be no courts-martial, in case you missed the thread yesterday. And the language was such that probably even the Article 15 will be dropped rather than risk the Lt. Col. challenging it and ASKING for a court-martial. That means the rough interrigations should resume again shortly.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 2:52:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: And I place the blame squarely at the feet of the President!
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You can bet your ass on that one. He needs to quit selling out to liberals and their special interest groups. He ain't gonna get their votes anyhow.
He has allowed the shithook DEMOS, and their incredible and unending criticism of the war to stampede him into making choices that were not healthy for our troops!
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Yup. And that really was the reason that Viet Nam was...well, a Viet Nam. It was because of the way we fought it here in the US that we were ineffective there, in Viet Nam.
This fine man better find some better advisors pretty damn quick! Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]
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Rumsfeld knows what to do. Why do you think the liberals have gone after him with everything they've got? They know. Bush should know better. Their success depends on the US failing. Their power for the good of this nation. Pathetic.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:17:32 PM EDT
A History Channel program yesterday showcased postwar Germany in 1945. Die hard SS people, who called themselves "Werewolves" were killing US troops during our occupation of Germany. The US retaliated very harshly and quickly. One GI killed would result in 10 Germans killed. The Russians were much more harsh. The show even claimed that after the sniper death of a GI, a village was shelled all night long. Our people will unfortunately continue to die in Iraq because what needs to be done is not politically correct anymore.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:31:04 PM EDT
If I was a youngster thinking of serving my Country, this kind of shit would change my mind real quick. I've been in one of THEIR wars..... They didn't wanna win that one either. Actually, it IS un-winable. You cannot GIVE people Liberty. They hafta want it bad enough to die for it themselves... Why do you think so many illegals come here?? They're too lazy and cowardly, to fight in their OWN country, so they come here, for a free ride.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:50:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: And I place the blame squarely at the feet of the President! He has allowed the shithook DEMOS, and their incredible and unending criticism of the war to stampede him into making choices that were not healthy for our troops! Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric, are you smoking crack? The blame is squarely at the feet of the President for allowing oil interests to get us into a war against spurious "weapons of mass destruction." Funny how you have turned that around on the democrats now.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:08:56 PM EDT
That's really sad I heard about that story when the guy was brought up on charges in the first place, and I thought it was a crock o' shit then! It seems terribly wrong that he was punished for doing something that a) hurt noone b) brought american soldiers home in one piece. If anybody ever gets to meet him, buy him a beer from me, and I'll stand you one. /Phil
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:43:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: And I place the blame squarely at the feet of the President! He has allowed the shithook DEMOS, and their incredible and unending criticism of the war to stampede him into making choices that were not healthy for our troops! Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric, are you smoking crack? The blame is squarely at the feet of the President for allowing oil interests to get us into a war against spurious "weapons of mass destruction." Funny how you have turned that around on the democrats now.
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Funny how one of the resident DU trolls decides to show up for this thread. Remember a little thing called 9/11? I suppose that was a conspiracy by the oil interests? Wake up and smell the bullshit your rolling in.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:47:50 PM EDT
I'm glad LTC West got only the fine. He should have got a medal. How much would each one of us have to kick in to come up with $5000.00? I would be interested if somebody were to start a collection.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:24:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Funny how one of the resident DU trolls decides to show up for this thread. Remember a little thing called 9/11? I suppose that was a conspiracy by the oil interests? Wake up and smell the bullshit your rolling in.
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I emphatically deny I am a DU troll - in fact, I have never even visited DU despite the innumerable threads that seem to spawn on AR15 regarding the content of DU. FYI to you, in fact, I am a registered Republican. As for the substance of your post, 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq seem to be two incongruous subjects. I am waiting for even a [i]scintilla[/i] of evidence linking Iraq with 9/11 -- as far as I know, there isn't any. Please show me otherwise, I am receptive to changing my views if I am wrong. Eric The Hun's thread tries to pin the problems in Iraq on a Democrat campaign to undermine Bush. Kind of odd considering it was Bush who made the choice to invade in the first place, over the Dem's objections. Now, because of Bush's choices, we lose at least one soldier a day to the terrorists that the anarchy of Iraq has attracted. Not to mention the drain on our GNP and resources in terms of manpower, materials and equipment. Attempting to pin that back on Democrats just smacks of a failure to assign responsibility for a Republican gaffe to a Republican.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:01:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Funny how one of the resident DU trolls decides to show up for this thread. Remember a little thing called 9/11? I suppose that was a conspiracy by the oil interests? Wake up and smell the bullshit your rolling in.
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I emphatically deny I am a DU troll - in fact, I have never even visited DU despite the innumerable threads that seem to spawn on AR15 regarding the content of DU. FYI to you, in fact, I am a registered Republican.
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Yeah. Uh-huh. And I'm Donald Duck!
As for the substance of your post, 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq seem to be two incongruous subjects. I am waiting for even a [i]scintilla[/i] of evidence linking Iraq with 9/11 -- as far as I know, there isn't any. Please show me otherwise, I am receptive to changing my views if I am wrong.
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Every nation and its people were involved in some way. Funneling money, weapons, terrorists, training facilities. Iraq may not have been a major conspirator but they have been a thorn in our side for some time now. Politically we could not have attacked Saudi Arabia or Iran but taking Iraq, in the heart of the middle east(look at a map), sends a very powerful message to all of them: "You could be next." As for weapons of mass destruction I believe that they existed. I believe that they still exist. Was this the reason that we invaded Iraq? No, that was a direct result of 9/11. However, it may have been a reason used to obtain the approval of the poeple to go to war just as slavery was the issue used to mobilize the Union during The Civil War regardless of the fact that the war actually had little to with slavery. At least initially. Same for Desert Storm. The american people were willing to go to war due to the rape and destruction of Kuwait. Would we have been there if not for their oil, its strategic and economic importance to us? Of course not. I don't care whether we ever pin 9/11 on Saddam Hussein. He asked to get his ass kicked enough times that it finally happened. It also serves as a lesson to the rest of them. Only problem now is that we are feeding our best to that POS region. In their entirety, they ain't worth one of ours. Time to take the gloves off. Time to act like a Commander in Chief.
Eric The Hun's thread tries to pin the problems in Iraq on a Democrat campaign to undermine Bush. Kind of odd considering it was Bush who made the choice to invade in the first place, over the Dem's objections. Now, because of Bush's choices, we lose at least one soldier a day to the terrorists that the anarchy of Iraq has attracted. Not to mention the drain on our GNP and resources in terms of manpower, materials and equipment. Attempting to pin that back on Democrats just smacks of a failure to assign responsibility for a Republican gaffe to a Republican.
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The Dems would rather see our nation weak and vulnerable than have a loss of their own power. Sadly, they have the media at their disposal and the Bush administration is getting alot of very negative press with regards to the War in Iraq. I think we still blame Bush, though, as it falls in his lap. He is the President. However, the underlying dissent is coming from the Dems and the overwhelmingly biased media. Underlying all of this, Pres Bush is trying to get re-elcted. The fact that the Dems would use the election to undermine the war effort and our president in a time of conflict speaks for just how low they will go in selling out our country. Our society is becoming incredibly polarized, albeit with the will and intent of various politicians. This will only create instability within the US. I see some very rough times ahead for this country. Worse, by far, than I would've thought even a year ago.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:35:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead aka Donald Duck: . . .
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I don't see a single substantive or coherent response to my post from you, only a fair bit of bluster. Thread closed as far as I am concerned, Mr. Duck. Have a quacking good time.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:53:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: I don't see a single substantive or coherent response to my post from you, only a fair bit of bluster. Thread closed as far as I am concerned, Mr. Duck. Have a quacking good time.
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Bye. [url]www.learnreadingcomprehension.com[/url]
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:12:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By drjarhead aka Donald Duck: . . .
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I don't see a single substantive or coherent response to my post from you, only a fair bit of bluster. Thread closed as far as I am concerned, Mr. Duck. Have a quacking good time.
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Strange, it made a lot of sense to me. Perhaps you're simply full of shit.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:33:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Originally Posted By Balzac72: After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life.
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Proud to have you Colonel. We need two new US Senators.
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Roger that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:35:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Man, oh man. [pissed]
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I'll see your [pissed], And raise you one. [pissed][pissed]
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 9:32:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 11:33:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BillofRights: I'm glad LTC West got only the fine. He should have got a medal. How much would each one of us have to kick in to come up with $5000.00? I would be interested if somebody were to start a collection.
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Great idea! I'm good for a couple of bucks!
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 1:49:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: If I was a youngster thinking of serving my Country, this kind of shit would change my mind real quick.
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I wouldn't even consider letting my kids fight in a war. The politicians are corrupt, the COC's of questionable competence with regards to their running of the military. I would still go. Not my kids. Not for this kind of bullshit. There is only one way to win a war and many ways to lose one.
You cannot GIVE people Liberty. They hafta want it bad enough to die for it themselves...
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I agree. VERY well said. Unfortunately, we have been left in a positiont where we have felt obligated to push the issue. I still say we will end up nuking most of the middle east. Time is running short for the heart of Islam and they will bring it on themselves.
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