Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 12/10/2003 2:59:26 PM EDT
I noticed this thread while lurking over at the DU to see their latest craziness. This surpassed my best expectations. They are going NUTS over this.
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

Clearly, this video has been photoshopped and cut up to support the producer's thesis that all Marines are bloodthirsty murderers and that this entire Iraq war is nothing more than an attempt by a vicious Nazi-like imperial administration led by the evil-one, Bush.

I call BULLSHIT. Nonetheless...war does have it's cooler moments.

Anyway...anyone ever see this before? Anyone care to disect the video?

Here is the original DU thread (Do not make it hot! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=869113&mesg_id=869113

Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:03:50 PM EDT
I'm very pro military but i think most people in the military would be better off not talking to the media especially not CNN! They can edit out certain parts and just make you look stupid,or bad. That was awesome those fuckwads are the enemy and we got one before they blew themselves up.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:20:11 PM EDT
War is Hell. Whoever fired the tracer needs to check the dope on his weapon...He was a foot high from about 50m or less. That is my video disection. Just like the Rodney King video, we are only viewing a small portion that the producer is using to push his agenda. What happend 1 week, 1 day, or 30 minutes before and after that little snippet of video??? Maybe the Corpsman attached to that unit got wacked the day before when he went to administer aid to another wounded enemy. Who gives a fuck? He was the enemy. Did I mention that war is Hell? Not all Marines are bloodthirsty murders, but once the dogs of war are off the leash, the really good ones are.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:23:14 PM EDT
War is hell!
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:33:10 PM EDT
For one thing, it look as if the final round came from behind the building and off to the right. Either way, the fact remains that you can see the whole thing is heavily edited. Finally, who gives a shit? One less terrorist POS to threaten our boys. Guess they shouldn't have supported the guy threatening our country...
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:36:13 PM EDT
That Iraqi was clearly on the way out anyways. Whether he would have made it or not wasn't for those guys to decide. It was better to put him out of his misery. Cheering and laughing about, on the otherhand, is just plain callous, cold and stupid. The officer or NCO of that squad should have shut them all up, especially since there was a camera present.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:37:48 PM EDT
There is no way to prove that they were laughing at that. Hell, there's no way to show the laughter wasn't edited in...
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:38:52 PM EDT
What makes all of you think that Iraqi was a terrorist? Wasn't this during the major combat phase of the operation? He was a combatant......not a terrorist. Cheering and carrying on when a camera is present was just plain stupid.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:40:06 PM EDT
BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:55:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
I don't know, my guys cheered also after killing those guys that attempted to kill us.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:57:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 3:58:55 PM EDT by Zaphod]
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
I say again, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE CHEERING AT. Also, we have no idea what that scumbag was doing before he got taken down, BEFORE the camera started rolling.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:58:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
HA HA HA! thats a good one, you probably haven't lived in a city near a marine base? I can't even amagine how crazy they get in combat. nothing against marines but whenever you get a bunch of tough 18-21 year old men together and they are being shot at by towel heads thousands of miles away they aren't going to be professional all the time.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:13:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: What makes all of you think that Iraqi was a terrorist? Wasn't this during the major combat phase of the operation? He was a combatant......not a terrorist. Cheering and carrying on when a camera is present was just plain stupid.
View Quote
I can see his AK on the ground just behind him. I bet his pals were hiding behind that wall and needed to see that.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:15:33 PM EDT
He appeared wounded but wouldn't say he was a POW.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:18:24 PM EDT
Righteous shoot. I'd like to see how some of the more sanctimonious here would act after being "in country" for awhile. After being shot at with rockets, small arms fire and the ever present danger that one of these peace loving fucking muslims might choose to blow themselves up at any time, I'd fucking cheer every time one of them bit the dust also.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:26:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 4:27:42 PM EDT by Scht0nk]
Originally Posted By STLRN:
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
I don't know, my guys cheered also after killing those guys that attempted to kill us.
View Quote
Oh, do go on about how you kicked ass, took names then laughed it off.... Who were your guys? What unit? Who was your CO? Who attempted to kill you? When? What AO? You saying you were CO? Or is this all in your vivid imagination? Please, do go on.....describe your big combat operation....
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:29:23 PM EDT
I was with 11th Marines, who were you with?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:31:21 PM EDT
Oh, yah I was the battery commander.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:31:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: Oh, do go on about how you kicked ass, took names then laughed it off.... Who were your guys? What unit? Who was your CO? Who attempted to kill you? When? What AO? You saying you were CO? Or is this all in your vivid imagination? Please, do go on.....describe your big combat operation....
View Quote
Tell you what, why don't YOU tell US what makes YOU so qualified to call the shoot good or not? Are YOU prior military? Have YOU been in combat? What makes YOU the expert, here, friend?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:48:41 PM EDT
If you think that was bad what would they have said if pictures would have been taken doing a sweep after a shootout. Dead men can't hurt you. Make sure they are dead by a shot in the head. Trying to explain killing to a fast food stuffed computer game raised baggy pants pierced nose never broke sweat only fear known is when the hot water runs out sniveling snot nosed shithead is a waste of time. Damn good kill. rk
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:34:16 PM EDT
Give them bastards HELL Boys.[marines]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:54:07 PM EDT
Frankly, I couldn't care less about one more dead enemy soldier. I have a hard time getting my dander up about a poor dead non-combatant too. War truly IS hell. If the movie is accurate, it certainly wouldnt' be the first time...nor the last that atrocities have taken place on the battlefield. I DO care about our troops though so basically...so fucking what? We don't have a single clue about what really went down there. I am convinced that the video has been heavily edited and that Marine's comments are very likely taken totally out of context. Typically, the DU Morons pretty much take it as gospel.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:57:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 6:04:29 PM EDT by thompsondd]
Knowing how ANYTHING can be cut, edited, etc to dilute, convolute, cover up, deceive, whatever, I was going to stay out of this one. I saw the video and thoughtout "Whatever". How the hell do I or anyone else know whether this is legit? The video didn't come FROM the CNN site did it? It just has the CNN logo at the bottom of the screen and someone who sounds like that Christine lady. Anyway, when I hear all the mamby-pamby whining BS, I get pissed. These guys are in COMBAT. They are being shot at, etc. People are trying TO KILL THEM. They rejoice for the fact it was their enemy, not them or their buddy, that died this day. And you get pissy? WTF? Would you be happy if it showed one of our guys get waxed? I have sat hear and watched too many little 8-9 yr old boys and old ladies fire AKs into the air celebrating the death of 3000 innocents civilians here. I have watched dead Blackhawk pilots drug through the streets and their bodies multilated while CROWDS sat around and cheered. Do I like seeing anyone else die? NO! However, I honestly have to say that when I sat and watched that video, I cheered TOO. Perhaps it was because I am tired of seeing Americans victimized across the globe all my life. Whatever the reason, I am glad to see things work out in our boys favor for once. And if you have a problem with that, then I question your patriotism and support OF THE TROOPS. You go over and get shot at, bombed, mortared, etc and see if you don't cheer. Point is, the video is from a questionable (at best) source. It appears to have been edited. We don't know where it came from, etc. Yet, you get all dandered up about that these guys are guilty of some haneous atrocity. Man, get a grip, pull your head out of your ass, and support the fathers, sons, husbands and uncles (and sisters, daughters, wives) that are actually over there in harms way. Be an AMERICAN damnit.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 5:58:13 PM EDT
In to find this later.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:05:51 PM EDT
I see no problem with the shoot. And as far as the way they act in combat, well I'll just say I'll let the people that have actually BEEN in combat judge those guys, not me.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:14:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunbert: In to find this later.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:16:22 PM EDT
The 'combatant' on the ground is moving around and has an AK within arms reach. Not only should they kill him, but they should do it with enthusiasm (which they did).[^] Notice how their M-16's didn't 'jam'.[;D]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:18:30 PM EDT
That video would have been way cooler if they would have used a M19. I miss that weapon. Hip hip....Hoozaaa!!
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 6:26:07 PM EDT
As a young Marine in the 70's I was taught to use an anchor shot on the fallen enemy while in the assault. That way you don't have to worry about a dead gook shooting you in the back. If anyone survived after the position is taken and secured from counter attack THEN you take prisoners. Before anyone jumps my ass....no I never saw combat. I joined as an 0351 in '75, but I sure as hell thought anchor shots were a good idea. Would I have killed in cold blood to insure my safety and the safety of my men? You damn right I would. What you see on the clip is combat not peace keeping. People many times forget that Marines and Rangers are for killing. Let'em do their jobs. Their cheers are for a job well done and maybe for their buddy who just died off camera. Who knows. Who knows anything other than war is hell and it's a Marines job to make the enemy die for his counry. Good job Marines...... Rocketman out
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:29:49 PM EDT
Forgive me but what was wrong with the video? It was nothing in comparison to watching office workers falling out of the WTC. If anything, it was too clean a hit.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:47:59 PM EDT
I'm a Marine, and I'm Laughing too - an anti-war propaganda site that makes the hyped claim of "NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN" that edits together an mpeg of footage anybody can buy on the months-old Time-Life CNN 'War in Iraq - The Road to Baghdad' DVD - available in the <$10 bin at a video store near you - and even has segments in it with the CNN logo prominently displayed - wow. gosh. what a stunning "expose". More like a semester extra-credit project at Evergreen "College".
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:10:52 PM EDT
I see his AK laying next to him. He got what was coming. [AnimalMother]"Better you than Me.[/AnimalMother]
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:46:45 AM EDT
If Col. West can have his men torture a POW, then stage a mock execution. I guess it's okay for the Marines to do it too...
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:44:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 6:45:39 AM EDT by kpel308]
The man was a combatant with a weapon, NOT a "POW: as stated in the thread title. Fuck him. Oh, Mr. 147 Posts? STLRN is a combat Marine Officer, who led Marines in the sandbox. Who the hell are YOU? STLRN: Semper Fi, Sir!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:06:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
What exactly wasn't professional? Feels good to kill those who try to kill you. Certainly worthy of a cheer or two.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:12:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk:
Originally Posted By STLRN:
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
I don't know, my guys cheered also after killing those guys that attempted to kill us.
View Quote
Oh, do go on about how you kicked ass, took names then laughed it off.... Who were your guys? What unit? Who was your CO? Who attempted to kill you? When? What AO? You saying you were CO? Or is this all in your vivid imagination? Please, do go on.....describe your big combat operation....
View Quote
Boy, you sure do know how to make an ass of yourself, huh? It's okay to have an opinion. And it's okay to come here and try to engage in a little ideological "combat". But when you accuse a Marine veteran of being a liar, do you really think it serves your cause? It reflects poorly on you.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:26:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: BTW, you'd think Marines could be a little bit more professional........
View Quote
Professional? Marines, as a profession, break things and kill people. What's your complaint?
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 11:46:34 AM EDT
Looks very fake to me. - LS
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 12:13:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scht0nk: Oh, do go on about how you kicked ass, took names then laughed it off.... Who were your guys? What unit? Who was your CO? Who attempted to kill you? When? What AO? You saying you were CO? Or is this all in your vivid imagination? Please, do go on.....describe your big combat operation....
View Quote
WOW!....I am not even going to read any further, I have a funny feeling you are about to get a Shit Storm heading your way!... But I don't want to look like I am jumping on a Band Wagon...(like I care) I will not call you a D.U. Troll, or whatever... I know that this violates the CoC, but for special assholes like you, It is worth it! [size=6] YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON![/size=6] Good day.... And from a Army Doc to you JARHEADS.. Simper Fi.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 12:54:30 PM EDT
My DS told me that somebody is not consitered a POW until you advance past them, THEN it becomes a crime to shoot them. Either way, who gives a damn? To kill somebody who wanted to kill my fellow soldiers would be an honor. The only thing I could think when I saw that video is how bad I wished I was the one to fire that last shot. God bless our military.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:11:49 PM EDT
... One less asshole alive to attempt detonating an improvised explosive device next to our Soldiers trying to get their water turned back on.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:39:18 PM EDT
25th ID (Light) Tropic Lightning. Straight-leg, Plt Sgt. Where did your big shoot up occur Mr. Jarhead? Date? AO? Set me straight. Big contact? Single troop firing on your whole ARTY battery? That would justify stupidity and a pretty big laugh..... I concur with the justification of the shooting. "Murder?" NO "POW?" NO Psychopathy and stupidity for "cheering?" while an embedded reporter is shooting film? YES "Fake?" Prove it. Looks like that squad was all rather casual. No big contact around them, was there? Were they taking cover? Was there any other incoming? That makes it all good when Iraqi's cheer when they ambush and kill our guys....right? Must be. Anything else would be hypocracy. Use your brains, not your ballsacks......rational thinking is soooooo important.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:58:03 PM EDT
Only problem was that it took more then 1 shot. Where's a 40mm HE when u need one???
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:01:48 PM EDT
My battery was involved in about 35 exchanges of fire there, admitly most were only a few Fedayeen, Special Republican guard, Jihadists or Special Security Organization types. But some were Plt sized unblocked ambushes. The first being in the Al Rumallah area prior to turning toward Al Basra when a Plt in a grove opened up on us as we did a night emplacement into our second position in Iraq, than there was one the day the 51st Mech surrender (not sure of the days you kind of loose them and only certain dates stick out) were my AP (ask some of your redleg brethren what an AP is and how it works for FA units) had to assault and clear and train station because they had taken some Marines under fire from it. Than on there were several unblocked ambushes up until the 25th in which the sand storm of the century occurred, that night we were probed several times by Fedeyeen and took light mortar fire. Than the next morning while heading to Ad Dywanyia we got an unblocked ambush on the right side of the road, HMLA cobras and Hueys came in and rocketed and minigunned them. Than outside of Dywanyia we went to direct fire several hundred meters behind our position because the by pass criteria was Plt or smaller, well the Plt came out and we shot them with DPICM danger close to ourselves.it. Than as we were moving up north again we took several more cases of small arms fire. I remember taking 12.7 fire outside of An Numenyah while moving behind the lead trace (again ask how AP works). Than on the 4th of April we received small arms fire from an apartment complex behind our position we did a displacement than shot back with HE-VT to were we took fire from. That night we took light mortar fire and I sent in a "snow storm" report. Than outside of Baghdad while following tanks we came under fire from Jihadists who the tankers MPATed. Than we went up to the north with the Marine Forces to seize Tikrit and were made a rifle company in which we were conducting raids and security patrols in Sadams home town, are those enough for you? Some reason I think I have had more trigger time than you have even though I am a FA guy and your an infantry.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:05:45 PM EDT
... The article is being championed by your good friends at [b]DU[/b]. The same folks that have this image on their cover page today. [img]http://members.cox.net/winston_wolf/DU.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:08:35 PM EDT
Wait, you say you were a Battalion CO? May I request your name and rank PM'd to me? Must be at least Major or Lt. Colonel....right? What? Did your HQ company get tied up in some kind of contact? Looks like your front and flank companies didn't do a very good job of force protection. Were you deployed in the assault, lagaared up or in march columns? Responsibilty fell squarely on your shoulder, either way, huh? So, you must have just heard the traffic on your radio net....didn't have any first hand expereince with that contact, right? Did your HQ company or plt get into a contact? Must've been looking at your career flushing down the toilet at that moment to have to make light of it. Do tell! Nice story for a Battalion CO to get to live to tell the tale.....
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:27:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: My battery was involved in about 35 exchanges of fire there, admitly most were only a few Fedayeen, Special Republican guard, Jihadists or Special Security Organization types. But some were Plt sized unblocked ambushes. The first being in the Al Rumallah area prior to turning toward Al Basra when a Plt in a grove opened up on us as we did a night emplacement into our second position in Iraq, than there was one the day the 51st Mech surrender (not sure of the days you kind of loose them and only certain dates stick out) were my AP (ask some of your redleg brethren what an AP is and how it works for FA units) had to assault and clear and train station because they had taken some Marines under fire from it. Than on there were several unblocked ambushes up until the 25th in which the sand storm of the century occurred, that night we were probed several times by Fedeyeen and took light mortar fire. Than the next morning while heading to Ad Dywanyia we got an unblocked ambush on the right side of the road, HMLA cobras and Hueys came in and rocketed and minigunned them. Than outside of Dywanyia we went to direct fire several hundred meters behind our position because the by pass criteria was Plt or smaller, well the Plt came out and we shot them with DPICM danger close to ourselves.it. Than as we were moving up north again we took several more cases of small arms fire. I remember taking 12.7 fire outside of An Numenyah while moving behind the lead trace (again ask how AP works). Than on the 4th of April we received small arms fire from an apartment complex behind our position we did a displacement than shot back with HE-VT to were we took fire from. That night we took light mortar fire and I sent in a "snow storm" report. Than outside of Baghdad while following tanks we came under fire from Jihadists who the tankers MPATed. Than we went up to the north with the Marine Forces to seize Tikrit and were made a rifle company in which we were conducting raids and security patrols in Sadams home town, are those enough for you? Some reason I think I have had more trigger time than you have even though I am a FA guy and your an infantry.
View Quote
I must have mistooken Battery for Battalion. Cheering when you see a splash on target is different than shooting up straight-legs up close and personal. I thought maybe you were talking about the Vietnam war. I must be a little older than you cause I missed all the latest fun in Afghani-land and Iraq. Were you a mortar battery firing in support of other marine units? Still. If I were the CO or NCO of those squaddies I would have called cease-fire, mounted up and moved out. I would not have let anyone under my responsibilty make asses out of themselves, especially in front of any kind of media recording device. Duty, Honor, Country......not Grab-assing, Posing for the camera, Hooting and hollaring. I respect what you did in Iraq for all of us, but those boys don't make America look good. You did what you had to do and came home....mostly intact. You're back stateside now, man. Civvies don't know what it's like in any kind of SHTF type of situation, when they see shit like that, made up or not, it was on their TV's so they believe shit like that and it makes them feel like jarheads over there are just fucking around, lolly-gaggin' and playing games. Trigger time or not, I know as much as you do that it ain't no fucking game over there. Iraqi's are cheering when they see dead American's and Americans here back home see American's doing the same. To me, they both just cancel each other out. It ain't no fucking game. They ain't playin' no games, we sure as fuck ain't gonna play no games.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:58:31 PM EDT
When I posted this, I was not expecting a fragging match between those among us who should know better. I was attempting to show just how fucked up those crazy socialist morons are over on the DU. My primary goal was to show to what lengths they will go to show their hate for America, for our warriors and for our president, all in their never ending anti-war, anti-America campaign. This video has been altered. The damn thing is a FAKE! Even if it is at least partially accurate, we ALL know that in armed combat, "atrocities" as the whiny liberals like to call them DO happen and with surprising frequency. Ask a Marine who made the island hopping campaign in WWII how many POWs they took whether or not the Japs attempted to surrender. Stop the territorial peeing contest or I'll simply delete the thread. We have a common enemy over at DU. Don't forget that and DON'T ignore them. THEY are the real danger to America. Quite the infighting before this gets locked or I kill it. WADR, LWilde
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:06:33 PM EDT
We were a 155mm M198 towed howitzer battery. It was very common for Marine Batteries to get fired up, a good friend of mine had who was also a Battery CO got his hand blown off in an ambush with a RPG hit. It was actually pretty common for the 3rd IDs DivArty also, if you read the FA Journal there were quite a few BSM-V and SS given to artillerymen from the 3rd ID who got in contact, there was at least battery CO killed by small arms fire in the army. Go to the CALL classified AARs, and one of the comments on the FA AAR was allot of infantry actions up close. The saving grace was the Iraqi are not good shots, they would burn off a mag on full auto from the hip and and only put a few holes in our vehicles and my guys would fire back and turn them to swiss cheese.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:40:36 PM EDT
Marines kill people. That is no secret. The man in the video I watched wasn't a POW. He wasn't in anyones custody. Furthermore, it is my understanding that a legitimate combatant must be wearing a uniform, or other markings, identifying him as such. None was visable in the video on that link. It has been a while, but I recall reading in an MCI on guerilla warfare, that soldiers fighting out of uniform were not considered legitimate combatants, and were subject to execution if captured. I also feel that it is out of line to come here and verbally attack a member of this board who is KNOWN to be a Marine, and a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Marines I were in Iraq with also did a fair amount of cheering after they survived contact with the enemy.
Top Top