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Posted: 12/10/2003 10:35:55 AM EDT
Another myth strenuously maintained since 9/11 is that of a moderate and tolerant Islam. The dominant idea in the Muslims' worldview, in truth, is that all humanity must obey the rules of their religion, whereas they owe no respect to the religions of others. Indeed, showing such respect would make them apostates meriting instant execution. Anxious to show tolerance, the Pope encouraged the erection of a mosque in Rome, the city where Saint Peter is buried. No Christian church could be built in Mecca, or anywhere in Saudi Arabia, for that would profane the land of Mohammed. There is no ambiguity about al-Qaeda-style intentions: It is quite simply to convert the whole of humanity to Islam by force. Murder and mayhem is justified in the eyes of the terrorists because it strikes at the infidels who refuse to embrace Islam. We deceive ourselves if we think we can negotiate with the al-Qaeda fanatics and their ilk.

Great article, read the rest here.
www.taemag.com/issues/articleid.17764/article_detail.asp

His book is worth looking at
Click here
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:41:01 AM EDT
More people have been killed in the name of God then anything else.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:00:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: More people have been killed in the name of God then anything else.
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And your point is?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:04:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: More people have been killed in the name of God then anything else.
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Not even freakin' close, Buckwheat. Between pagan eugenicists like Hitler (15-20 million dead) and atheists like Stalin (30-40 million), Mao Zedong (20-40 million dead), Lenin (4 million dead), Pol Pot (1.5-2 million dead), and Tito (1 million dead), those who have killed in the name of God are no more than rank amateurs.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:12:27 AM EDT
ALL THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY....WHAT ABOUT THE LAST 1900 YEARS??? TITO? YOU GOTA BE FREAKING KIDDING ME.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:15:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: ALL THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY....WHAT ABOUT THE LAST 1900 YEARS??? TITO? YOU GOTA BE FREAKING KIDDING ME.
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Kills the caps, please. What matters is what's happening today. But again, what point are you trying to make? That people have died in the name of religion? So what? This is not news.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:16:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: ALL THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY....WHAT ABOUT THE LAST 1900 YEARS??? TITO? YOU GOTA BE FREAKING KIDDING ME.
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How do you think the technology for mass killing in the preceding 1900 years compared with that available to the secular murderers of the 20th c.?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:20:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: ALL THAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY....WHAT ABOUT THE LAST 1900 YEARS??? TITO? YOU GOTA BE FREAKING KIDDING ME.
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[img]http://members.cox.net/tivoli410/CAPSLOCK.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:35:27 AM EDT
A frenchman who doesn't get it: Subject: Touche' !! The elderly American gentleman arrived in Paris by plane and at French customs he fumbled for his passport. "You have been to France before Monsieur?", the customs officer asked sarcastically. The American admitted that he had been to France before. "Then you should know enough to have your passport ready for inspection", snapped the irate official. The American said that the last time he came to France he did not have to show his passport. "Impossible, old man. You Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France." The old American gave the Frenchman a long hard look and said, "I assure you, that when I came ashore on Omaha Beach in Normandy on D-day in 1944, there were no damn Frenchmen anywhere on that beach asking for passports".
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:55:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 12:19:12 PM EDT by StariVojnik]
We have the CAPS LOCK police on this site, LOL! Sorry. my point being is that "murder" is always justified by fundamentalists through their religion. How many Jews were killed by the Egyptians? How many Christians had their heads hacked off by the Romans or sent to the arena? How many were killed when the Muslims swormed through the west in the middle ages? They were chopping heads from the middle-east to Scotland. How many innocents were killed during the Crusades on both sides??? The Childrens-Crusade... The Spanish-Inquisition. The new-world explorers, huh? How many were killed when the Turks were storming through the Balkans? and I haven't even begun to list the rest of the muck. Yes, the last 80 years shows what monsters people can be, the numbers are staggering for such a short period of time (I hope that answers your question about modern tech FLAL1A). Regarding Tito...Tito was one of the best things to happen to Yugoslavia during and after the war. He fought the Nazi's, he fought the Ustashi (Croat Nazi Cocksuckers), the fucking Italian brown shirts (who by the way killed more Croats & Serbs than the Germans did) and not to mention was one of the most loved leaders of that period. He also managed to keep the Russian paws off his country due to his political history that goes back to the people's revolution. After WW2, he had made many non-alignment pacts with many nations of the world and had established Yugoslavia as a leading eastern-european nation. Placing Tito in that pack of killers/maniacs is NOT right.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:54:17 PM EDT
Tito was loved????? By whom? He was feared by all, but kept the Russians out. I think Tito (a Croat) killed more Croatians AFTER May, 1945 than during the whole war. The croatian people en mass tried to get across the Italian border, but the Brits would not let them through. They knew what they would get from the Russians to the north. I first heard it in the 1980's, before Tito was dead. Q: When Tito dies, what will Yugoslavia look like? A: Lebanon. I did a WTF?, but as it turned out, obvious in hindsight, Lebanon looked like an English football riot.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:00:44 PM EDT
People killing each other in the name of religion is a good reason. Better than killing each other for political differences. A hundred years from now, we will be mystified about the differences between Facshim (sp) and Communism. Fasism happened to predominate in prosperous countries and Communism predominated in poorer countries. The differences between the two might be hairsplitting. Kinda like arguing the difference now between Trotskyism and Stalinism, &right/left wing deviations in the Commie world. Pretty petty from our perspective, but they were killing each other for this.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:23:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StariVojnik: More people have been killed in the name of God then anything else.
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No they haven't. Unless Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are god.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:05:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 4:30:34 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
Originally Posted By pogo: Tito was loved????? By whom? He was feared by all, but kept the Russians out. I think Tito (a Croat) killed more Croatians AFTER May, 1945 than during the whole war. The croatian people en mass tried to get across the Italian border, but the Brits would not let them through. They knew what they would get from the Russians to the north. I first heard it in the 1980's, before Tito was dead. Q: When Tito dies, what will Yugoslavia look like? A: Lebanon. I did a WTF?, but as it turned out, obvious in hindsight, Lebanon looked like an English football riot.
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Your wrong! I wonder what Croats were running to Italy? The snitch sellout traitor bastards that sided with the Nazi's and the Brown shirts perhaps? Good ridens to them, those SOB's nearly wiped out my grandparents in 1943. Those fucking facist bastards were rounding up regular people from town to town and mowing them dowm with machineguns in "Maximir Park" (something like Central Park in NYC). The Italians were more ruthless than the Germans were towards the Slavs in that area. MY grandfather fought for the Partisans after my Grandmother freed him from a Croat(Ustashi) jail in Zagreb in 1943...how'd she do it? She strapped dynamite to her body, pregnant with my mother and walked into the Croat Nazi police station and demanded his release!!! She got her way BTW! Yugoslavia like Lebenon? Wrong Again. Some parts like in Bosnia were toar up by the serbs, but Croatia/Slovenia are one of the most beautiful places in Europe, you should go there before you make statements like that! Most Europeans go to Croatia/Slovenia for vacation. BTW....STALIN was FEARED! Tito was a leader. Why? He brought together the Bosnians, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, and Montenegrans under one house. We all got along, brothers in arms! After he died, his underlings carved up the country thru greed and blind nationalism. Im not saying that Tito was a saint, and we Jugoslavs know this, but, overall, he was a standup kind of guy and we loved him as our leader. It was just a great shame what happened to Jugoslavia after his death.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:10:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CS223: A frenchman who doesn't get it: Subject: Touche' !! The elderly American gentleman arrived in Paris by plane and at French customs he fumbled for his passport. "You have been to France before Monsieur?", the customs officer asked sarcastically. The American admitted that he had been to France before. "Then you should know enough to have your passport ready for inspection", snapped the irate official. The American said that the last time he came to France he did not have to show his passport. "Impossible, old man. You Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France." The old American gave the Frenchman a long hard look and said, "I assure you, that when I came ashore on Omaha Beach in Normandy on D-day in 1944, there were no damn Frenchmen anywhere on that beach asking for passports".
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I guess you know that I LIVE for stories like this.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:16:59 AM EDT
[:\] So Tito was loved by everyone who was not a fascist, who were killed after the war was over? And they were fascist and deserved to be slaughtered? Everyone who does not love Comrade Tito please line up next to the trench. Seems to me a lot of folks - Serb and others - were itching for a chance to right recent wrongs. Once Tito was gone, and the Russians were gone for good, things started happening. That is an uncivil war for you... ------------ One of my profs was a Serb, from Belgrade. He used to talk about the war during class and balkan politics in general "without continious borders, you are DEAD! (as a people). Without access to the sea, you are DEAD! Without national pride (or something like it), you lose your identity (as a people) and you are DEAD! I can imagine him as a concentration camp guard. I knew a couple Croatian refugees, women, form the early 90's wars. They did not talk much about the war back home, but when they did they had some pretty bloodcurling stories. I ran into someone at a trade show, a fellow metallurgist. We talked for about a half hour on pretty freindly terms, and his accent was vaguely familiar. I asked him where he was from (yugoslavia) and I told him one of my profs was from Belgrade. He snorted "A Serb!!" and the conversation was instantly *over*. Don't try to feed me horseshit about one big happy band of ethnicities united by the loveable great leader. Serbia happened to come out on top in 1945, and the Croats had a bad choice in allies.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:37:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 6:47:21 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
Originally Posted By pogo: [:\] So Tito was loved by everyone who was not a fascist, who were killed after the war was over? And they were fascist and deserved to be slaughtered? Everyone who does not love Comrade Tito please line up next to the trench. Seems to me a lot of folks - Serb and others - were itching for a chance to right recent wrongs. Once Tito was gone, and the Russians were gone for good, things started happening. That is an uncivil war for you... ------------ One of my profs was a Serb, from Belgrade. He used to talk about the war during class and balkan politics in general "without continious borders, you are DEAD! (as a people). Without access to the sea, you are DEAD! Without national pride (or something like it), you lose your identity (as a people) and you are DEAD! I can imagine him as a concentration camp guard. I knew a couple Croatian refugees, women, form the early 90's wars. They did not talk much about the war back home, but when they did they had some pretty bloodcurling stories. I ran into someone at a trade show, a fellow metallurgist. We talked for about a half hour on pretty freindly terms, and his accent was vaguely familiar. I asked him where he was from (yugoslavia) and I told him one of my profs was from Belgrade. He snorted "A Serb!!" and the conversation was instantly *over*. Don't try to feed me horseshit about one big happy band of ethnicities united by the loveable great leader. Serbia happened to come out on top in 1945, and the Croats had a bad choice in allies.
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Man you haven't got a clue. Tito was a Croat! The Russians were still there after he died. The Russians and Serbs have always been allies since world war 1 for heavens sake! Remember when the US and Nato attacked Serbia just recently and the Russians came right into Belgrade with tanks? Thats right, line em up by the trenches you fucking facist lover. Just like the facists were lining up innocent people during the war. Blood is thicker than water holmes! Don't talk to me about horseshit since you were never there or even lived there like I have...the little knowlegde you posses and the few contacts you had with Jugoslavs in America gives you no right to make generalized opinions. Your a complete idiot on this subject! Go away. BTW, Your professor sounds like typical Serbian Nationalism. as we say in Croatia...."idi u kurac"!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:56:16 AM EDT
Who the fuck is this clueless newbie telling me to go away? Star, I suggest you take a course in reading comprehension. For someone from the area you should know a little more about the history of the area instead of reciting rants heard as a little kid. Russia has been screwed over by Serbia since Peter the Great. Serbia is as good an ally as France is the the US.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 7:21:24 AM EDT by StariVojnik]
I do know my history. Thats why im angry with your comments. This is how idiotic your logic is....quote " the serbs have screwed over the russians since Peter the great..." If the serbs screwed them for so long, why then was Serbia alligned with Russia all these years? Why did Serbia adopt Cyrillics? Why was Russian a second language in Jugoslavia? Why is there such a closeness between the two lands? Huh? Why did the Russians show up to support their fellows serbs recently? Huh? And you know what? The Russians and Serbs are still good friends. From what your saying, the Russians have to be pretty stupid to remain "friends" with the serbs who you say have been screwing them since Peter the Great. If the Serbs were really like that, don't you think the USSR would have flattened Belgrade a long time ago? Please.......
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:29:42 AM EDT
I think that if you are not including death by disease, starvation and natural causes that StariVojnik is correct in his statement. People have been dying big time probably since people first started the concept of god to the present. Their have been allot of wars fought all over the world constantly over religion. The wars mentioned do not even begin to touch the amount of people who have died over religion or god. Many who died in WWII were in that catagory. The crusades and an seemingly infinate amout of wars over know history have had to do with religion. You could spend the rest of your life researching it and never begin to know all of the wars or conflicts over the subject. So many die all of the time in small number like tribes against tribes. If you look at allot of the major wars through out history they almost always had god involved somewhere. Not to mention that it is still on going with no end in sight.
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