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Posted: 12/9/2003 5:00:56 PM EDT
Hi guys, it's been a while....

I have a friend who is writing an article and is looking for words that used to have Christian significance but are now mainstream and used in a different way.

Examples--
1. Christmas refers to the Christ Mass (middle english)
2. Holiday comes from Holy day
3. I have heard that the word talent (i.e. ability) comes from the parable of the talents (i.e. money).
4. I have heard goodbye comes from "God be with thee"

Any more?

Thanks,

Zonan
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:06:56 PM EDT
Well, I don't know if this meets your criteria, but "reading the writing on the wall" is taken from the Bible (where Nebak........the king of Babylon has his future written on the wall. Will one of my more learned brothers please provide the appropriate reference?
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:13:09 PM EDT
"Conversation" used to mean the entirety of a persons lifestyle. Now it means tawkin'.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:19:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2003 5:21:53 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Two come immediately to mind: [b]"knock on wood"[/b] - no definite origin but one comes from Catholicism: early rosary beads were made of oak wood, when praying you'd hold them or rub them between thumb & forefinger - "knock" on them. [b]"Halloween"[/b] - shortened version of "all Hallow's eve" which was the night before All Saints Day.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:23:28 PM EDT
Can't think of any Christian words that are now mainstream but I can think of pagan words that are now Christian. Easter(The feast of Ishtar)was a pagan holy day to celebrate firtility(that why the rabbits and eggs.) that was made a Christian holy day. Christmas has it's orgins in a pagan holy day celabrated by Germanic tribes, that's where the Christmas tree comes from, has to do with rebirth,winter ending and spring coming. The Christian Church has absorbed literally dozens of pagan traditions(imortality of the soul being one of them) from the many cultures that they've come in contact with. First century Christians wouldn't even reconize the Church today, in fact they'd probably think it was some strange pagan relidgon and try to convert all of us.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:31:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Can't think of any Christian words that are now mainstream but I can think of pagan words that are now Christian. Easter(The feast of Ishtar)was a pagan holy day to celebrate firtility(that why the rabbits and eggs.) that was made a Christian holy day. Christmas has it's orgins in a pagan holy day celabrated by Germanic tribes, that's where the Christmas tree comes from, has to do with rebirth,winter ending and spring coming. The Christian Church has absorbed literally dozens of pagan traditions(imortality of the soul being one of them) from the many cultures that they've come in contact with. First century Christians wouldn't even reconize the Church today, in fact they'd probably think it was some strange pagan relidgon and try to convert all of us.
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First, the belief within the church of the imortality of the soul LONG predates any contact with any of the cultures you refer to. As for Christmas, the word itself is a Christian word, even if the holiday itself was made to coincide with the Winter Solstice or whatever. Also, Christmas trees and similar decorations are NOT Christian, they are cultural. If they were Christian, the ACLU would be suing half the planet for public displays of trees on public lands. The Easter thing is interesting, though. Didn't know that one...
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:40:15 PM EDT
Not looking to get into an argument over it but give 1 Tim.6:13-16 a read. Sounds like only God is imortal to me. You can also give Gen.3:19 a look see, looks like we go back to the dust from which we were made after we die, doesn't it. If it wasn't for the Resurection we die, turn to dust and that'd be it for us. Thanks God their is a Resurection so we can be brought back from death to eternal life if we know Christ as our Lord and Saviour. Of course if you don't you'll be brought back to be judged the go back to dust again, never to be brought back again.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:51:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Not looking to get into an argument over it but give 1 Tim.6:13-16 a read. Sounds like only God is imortal to me. You can also give Gen.3:19 a look see, looks like we go back to the dust from which we were made after we die, doesn't it. If it wasn't for the Resurection we die, turn to dust and that'd be it for us. Thanks God their is a Resurection so we can be brought back from death to eternal life if we know Christ as our Lord and Saviour. Of course if you don't you'll be brought back to be judged the go back to dust again, never to be brought back again.
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Body goes dust to dust. The soul, however, is described as immortal in the Gospels, BEFORE the resurrection. Now, where the souls of all the folks between Genesis and the Resurrection went in the meantime is DEFINITELY a subject for another thread! (and NO, I don't know the answer! [;)])
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:57:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Can't think of any Christian words that are now mainstream but I can think of pagan words that are now Christian. Easter(The feast of Ishtar)was a pagan holy day to celebrate firtility(that why the rabbits and eggs.) that was made a Christian holy day. Christmas has it's orgins in a pagan holy day celabrated by Germanic tribes, that's where the Christmas tree comes from, has to do with rebirth,winter ending and spring coming. The Christian Church has absorbed literally dozens of pagan traditions(imortality of the soul being one of them) from the many cultures that they've come in contact with. First century Christians wouldn't even reconize the Church today, in fact they'd probably think it was some strange pagan relidgon and try to convert all of us.
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First, the belief within the church of the imortality of the soul LONG predates any contact with any of the cultures you refer to. As for Christmas, the word itself is a Christian word, even if the holiday itself was made to coincide with the Winter Solstice or whatever. Also, Christmas trees and similar decorations are NOT Christian, they are cultural. If they were Christian, the ACLU would be suing half the planet for public displays of trees on public lands. The Easter thing is interesting, though. Didn't know that one...
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Sorry Zaphod-- pagan beliefs came waaaay before christianity. How could you say that "christmas" is older then the winter solstice??? The solstice has existed since the beginning of the sun and the planets.....
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 6:05:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2003 6:14:17 PM EDT by zonan]
TNFrank--my friend is writing about Christian words that have lost meaning, not pagan words that have been taken up by our culture with some correlation with holidays celebrated by Americans. If everyone could take the rehashed "Christianity stole a bunch of stuff from pagans" debate to another thread, or to wherever new age hippies meet, whichever is easier for you, it would be much appreciated. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 6:33:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b]"Halloween"[/b] - shortened version of "all Hallow's eve" which was the night before All Saints Day.
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Many, possibly most holidays, including the date at which we celebrate Christmas, have their roots in pagan traditions. Also, many of the myths in the bible are the same or related to pagan mythology. Take Mary for example. Her importance in the bible is likely because of the pagan mythology of the goddess. It was not until later that the church cut women out of the picture.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 6:46:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2003 6:52:03 PM EDT by Zaphod]
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count: How could you say that "christmas" is older then the winter solstice??? The solstice has existed since the beginning of the sun and the planets.....
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I'm saying that the term "Christmas" is not related to the festivals normally associated with the winter solstice, other than that they coincide. The celebration of His birth was observed before contact with the pagan cultures occurred. That's all. WHY they coincide is a question I am unable to answer, other than to offer that they were probably linked either as a means to win converts (men at it again) or as a way to hide from those who didn't dig Christians. BTW, the Lord existed LONG before the beginning of the sun and the planets.....[;)]
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 7:05:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: Many, possibly most holidays, including the date at which we celebrate Christmas, have their roots in pagan traditions. Also, many of the myths in the bible are the same or related to pagan mythology. Take Mary for example. Her importance in the bible is likely because of the pagan mythology of the goddess. It was not until later that the church cut women out of the picture.
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Please see above.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 7:37:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count: How could you say that "christmas" is older then the winter solstice??? The solstice has existed since the beginning of the sun and the planets.....
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I'm saying that the term "Christmas" is not related to the festivals normally associated with the winter solstice, other than that they coincide. The celebration of His birth was observed before contact with the pagan cultures occurred. That's all. WHY they coincide is a question I am unable to answer, other than to offer that they were probably linked either as a means to win converts (men at it again) or as a way to hide from those who didn't dig Christians. BTW, the Lord existed LONG before the beginning of the sun and the planets.....[;)]
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I was a little off compared to what I meant to say.. the solstice predate man. I actually meant to differ with
posted by Zaphod: First, the belief within the church of the imortality of the soul LONG predates any contact with any of the cultures you refer to
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Link Posted: 12/9/2003 8:01:17 PM EDT
Ok, I'll resist the urge to pontificate on the subject of "Pagan Takeover." I will however offer "Baptism" as a word associated w/ Christianity that has slowly taken on a more generic/securlar meaning. It's slowly becoming used more and more as a way to describe someone becoming initiated into a way of life, instead of refering specifically to just the Christian act of Baptism. On the other hand, it does come from the Greek word "Baptizo" which means to submerge. So I guess even the Christians ascribed their own sort of meaning to the original word. I don't think there are any "Christian" words per se. To assign possesion to language sounds a bit silly to me. However, as Zonan stated, "words that used to have Christian significance," is probably the best way to phrase it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 8:19:03 PM EDT
This maybe semi-ot, but I really dislike how words that used to have depth and weight now are tossed around w/o honor. Like Awesome, Honor, Integrity, Holy, Courtship, Marriage, Wisdom, Beauty, etc. And others that aren't spoken b/c they are not pc: Abomination, Sin, Cursed...
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 8:22:43 PM EDT
Everyone seems to use "Celibate" now to mean someone who does not have sex. It really means "unmarried" which should be the same thing but is not. "Chaste" means refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:54:06 PM EDT
Xmas It has today come to represent "taking Christ out of Christmas." The "X" is actually symbollic for Christ and came about out of fear of using the name of the Lord lightly by ancient Christians. To me, I would rather see "Xmas" used when referring to the overly commercialized "holiday", and use "Christmas" when refering to the "Holy Day".
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 2:43:42 AM EDT
http://www.ontruth.com/immortality.html Check the above link for the truth. Satans Pride made him(and now us)think that we were imortal like God. Satans first lie to man was "you won't die." We are nothing more then an animal,the highest animal, made in the image(we look like)of God. We, along with all the other animals on this planet were made from the dust and when we die that's where we'll return. Sorry to burst your pridefull bubble but that's the truth. The "imortal soul" is a Greek idea that Plato and Socrate talked about, it's not an idea that comes from God.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 2:53:58 AM EDT
Holy shit! [has nothing to do with blessed feces] [:D]
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 2:55:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: http://www.ontruth.com/immortality.html The "imortal soul" is a Greek idea that Plato and Socrate talked about, it's not an idea that comes from God.
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Then please explain what "shall have everlasting life" means!
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 2:58:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 2:58:58 AM EDT by Adam_White]
Originally Posted By BigJ491: Ok, I'll resist the urge to pontificate on the subject of "Pagan Takeover." I will however offer "Baptism" as a word associated w/ Christianity that has slowly taken on a more generic/securlar meaning. It's slowly becoming used more and more as a way to describe someone becoming initiated into a way of life, instead of refering specifically to just the Christian act of Baptism. On the other hand, it does come from the Greek word "Baptizo" which means to submerge. So I guess even the Christians ascribed their own sort of meaning to the original word. I don't think there are any "Christian" words per se. To assign possesion to language sounds a bit silly to me. However, as Zonan stated, "words that used to have Christian significance," is probably the best way to phrase it.
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If baptism were a Christian thing, then how could John have been baptizing people before Christ even began teaching? Baptism clearly has an older history, though I admittedly have no clue, as it does not seem to be Jewish, per se. Perhaps it was some cultural thing at the time, that Christ brought spiritual significance to by "endorsing," if you will?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:11:36 AM EDT
Awesome. Wicked. Just 2 examples off the top of my head. Or isn't this what you mean?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:40:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Two come immediately to mind: [b]"knock on wood"[/b] - no definite origin but one comes from Catholicism: early rosary beads were made of oak wood, when praying you'd hold them or rub them between thumb & forefinger - "knock" on them. [b]"Halloween"[/b] - shortened version of "all Hallow's eve" which was the night before All Saints Day.
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neither of yours comes from christians, but comes from pagans.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:52:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tequilabob:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Two come immediately to mind: [b]"knock on wood"[/b] - no definite origin but one comes from Catholicism: early rosary beads were made of oak wood, when praying you'd hold them or rub them between thumb & forefinger - "knock" on them. [b]"Halloween"[/b] - shortened version of "all Hallow's eve" which was the night before All Saints Day.
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neither of yours comes from christians, but comes from pagans.
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Bullshit. The term Halloween is purely Christian. The holdiay itself definitely derived for a British Pagan Holiday, but not he term for the Christian mass that was celebrated the day after (All Saint's Day):Allhallowmas, and thus - when church officials realized that the Pagan holiday was not going anywahere soon, the term for that holiday became All Hallow Even, later: Halloween.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 4:47:58 AM EDT
I hate to hijack the thread but here goes. Adam, you answered your own question. It's says "shall have", not "does have". As a created being we have both a beginning and an end. It's only thru the Resurection that we'll be raised to "new life" and live eternally with God. IF we are imortal by nature and always will be into the future then by logic we should have exsisted for infinity into the past as well. That means that we have no beginning or end and that we are like God, imortal.But notice in Gen.2:7 that God "created" us from the dust of the ground and breathed into us the breath of life and we became a living being(soul) at that point in time, we weren't alive before event floating around in the ether. Also notice in Gen.3:22-24 that God placed an Angle to guard us from getting to the tree of life "lest he(man)put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." If we are already imortal then why was God worried that we'd take the fruit of the tree of life and live forever? It wouldn't have mattered because we would have already possessed eternal life/be imortal. It is both pridefull and arogant to think that we, the creation of God, are imortal like God. The imortality of man is a lie right from the lips of Satan and the Church has bought into it, hook, line and sinker. Eternal life is a gift from God, it's not something that we already possess on our own. Stop taking what the precher says from the pulpit as the truth and start reading it for yourself in the word of God.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 9:35:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 1:43:31 PM EDT by Adam_White]
Of course he said "shall" he hadn't DIED yet to open those doors. I'll take the words and teaching of Christ over the Old Testament any day. I am definitely NOT one to believe the the literal interpretation of Genesis - nor was Christ. You'll have to debate with folks like Eric if you want to start quoting scripture. I seem to recall Jesus really pissing such literalist people off by doing stuff like healing folks on the Sabbath, etc. I personally think that if God was so keen on the exact wording and litersal truth of those old books, Christ would have been seen at LEAST ONCE teaching from them, and not teaching unrelated / somewhat conflicting stuff. Constant references to everlasting life and the Kingdom of God is more than enough for me, thank you. I may be rusty, but do not recall where Christ said that this Kingdom would only come at the end of the world - I would be interested in where you get this.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 9:44:38 AM EDT
the exclamation "Zounds!" comes from the oath "I swear [b]by His wounds[/b]." Scott
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 10:27:44 AM EDT
How about 'America'???? Used to have Christian meaning but sure doesn't any more. Or at least isn't allowed to have any Christian meaning.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:34:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 11:48:31 PM EDT by BigJ491]
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By BigJ491: Ok, I'll resist the urge to pontificate on the subject of "Pagan Takeover." I will however offer "Baptism" as a word associated w/ Christianity that has slowly taken on a more generic/securlar meaning. It's slowly becoming used more and more as a way to describe someone becoming initiated into a way of life, instead of refering specifically to just the Christian act of Baptism. On the other hand, it does come from the Greek word "Baptizo" which means to submerge. So I guess even the Christians ascribed their own sort of meaning to the original word. I don't think there are any "Christian" words per se. To assign possesion to language sounds a bit silly to me. However, as Zonan stated, "words that used to have Christian significance," is probably the best way to phrase it.
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If baptism were a Christian thing, then how could John have been baptizing people before Christ even began teaching? Baptism clearly has an older history, though I admittedly have no clue, as it does not seem to be Jewish, per se. Perhaps it was some cultural thing at the time, that Christ brought spiritual significance to by "endorsing," if you will?
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I never said it was a "Christian thing," but merely said that it was "associated" w/ Christianity. Zonan requested words that used to have "Christian significance," but never said anything about words that have their origin in the Christian faith. If you reread my original post, I believe I'm quite clear on stating that even Christians ascribed their own meaning to the Greek word "baptizo." Therefore, it should be fairly evident that I'm well aware that the concept of baptism existed before Jesus' time. "There is nothing new under the sun."
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 12:37:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count: How could you say that "christmas" is older then the winter solstice??? The solstice has existed since the beginning of the sun and the planets.....
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I'm saying... The celebration of His birth was observed before contact with the pagan cultures occurred. That's all. ... BTW, the Lord existed LONG before the beginning of the sun and the planets.....[;)]
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Your garden variety paganism existed 20,000 years before christ appeared thhough. Give or take a few millennia.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:26:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count: Your garden variety paganism existed 20,000 years before christ appeared thhough. Give or take a few millennia.
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And the Lord existed before creation. What's your point? Fools have existed for a long time?
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