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Posted: 5/14/2021 10:15:38 AM EDT
[#1]
 KT Tunstall - Invisible Empire Music for the next flight of SN15. "The gamble never works twice..." |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 10:59:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Nitrogen, carbon, potassium, the right bacteria and so on. It requires careful work. Fortunately we do have hydroponics which should work in the interim. Getting to work on a Dyson Swarm will make terraforming much more practical and space colonization much less suicidal than most people expect. This whole "first generation of Martian colonists are doomed" shtick is growing tiresome. I mean, some of them will die. But all of them dying? That sounds like a really expensive way for a bunch of people to commit mass suicide.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It can be done, and would actually be easier than growing them on the ISS. Gravity largely affects root development. The bigger issue is the soil having the necessary things for plants to grow. Unfortunately, it's not Brawndo.  Nitrogen, carbon, potassium, the right bacteria and so on. It requires careful work. Fortunately we do have hydroponics which should work in the interim. Getting to work on a Dyson Swarm will make terraforming much more practical and space colonization much less suicidal than most people expect. This whole "first generation of Martian colonists are doomed" shtick is growing tiresome. I mean, some of them will die. But all of them dying? That sounds like a really expensive way for a bunch of people to commit mass suicide. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:12:16 AM EDT
[#3]
There are now two robo-dags
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:16:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It can be done, and would actually be easier than growing them on the ISS. Gravity largely affects root development. The bigger issue is the soil having the necessary things for plants to grow. Unfortunately, it's not Brawndo. But potatoes like shit. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:17:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: We all die, eventually. Yes, but should we die for stupid and expensive reasons? People on this site are completely convinced that Idiocracy is either our future or our present. Idiocracy on Mars ain't gonna happen, the environment is entirely too hostile. I have some issues with the fictional world of The Expanse but I think they did a decent job of portraying what might become Martian society where people just don't have time or patience with Earthling or for that matter Belter retardations. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:20:51 AM EDT
[#6]
The first wave should be older, past child bearing years, with emphasis on those with fewer ties to earth, little to no family. They have more experience with life and things that can go wrong. Let wisdom lead the way.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It can be done, and would actually be easier than growing them on the ISS. Gravity largely affects root development. The bigger issue is the soil having the necessary things for plants to grow. Unfortunately, it's not Brawndo. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:30:55 AM EDT
[#8]
SN15 lifted back onto the launch stand.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:03:41 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:22:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Awesome video. Looks completely surreal.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:27:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Awesome video. Looks completely surreal. I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:31:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. Something the size of a fairly large building, doing a bellyflop. And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:44:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Something the size of a fairly large building, doing a bellyflop. And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. Something the size of a fairly large building, doing a bellyflop. And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. A rather graceful bellyflop at that. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:44:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. Now try doing that someplace where latency makes it impossible to accomplish via remote control.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 12:45:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Awesome video. Looks completely surreal. I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. As many times as I have seen our avionics techs have to deal with 'porpoising' issues on autopilots, yeah, somebody earned their paycheck. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2021 1:36:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JPN: As many times as I have seen our avionics techs have to deal with 'porpoising' issues on autopilots, yeah, somebody earned their paycheck. I always hated those writeups! Seemed to be common with the ch-47d |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 1:45:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Neotopiaman: There are now two robo-dags https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1JonGlWQAAXQFo?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 
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Posted: 5/14/2021 1:58:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lagtime: Nothing makes bugs more appealing to eat Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lagtime: Originally Posted By JPN: Originally Posted By Obo2: The idea of bugs for protein gets a lot more appealing in lower g. No, it doesn't get a lot more appealing. Nothing makes bugs more appealing to eat Especially being bigger. 
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:04:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hoosierhick]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Neotopiaman: There are now two robo-dags https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1JonGlWQAAXQFo?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 I wonder if the second one is named Apollo? Edit: SON OF A....beat.  
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:06:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. I work with PID loops for a living and I can't imagine how they could have gotten it that close on the first few tries. Frigging mind blowing. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:15:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. Which Starship will make possible to build in orbit... It'd be cool to see Starship as a ferry shuttle, dwarfed in size by interplanetary cyclers or whatever. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:22:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Neotopiaman: There are now two robo-dags https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1JonGlWQAAXQFo?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://twitter.com/SpaceXApollo https://twitter.com/SpaceXZeus |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:29:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mort]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpanishInquisition: Bezos? Where's your dildo now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpanishInquisition: Originally Posted By Master_of_Orion:
Bezos? Where's your dildo now? ETA, to be unfair, his wife still left him. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 2:45:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Which Starship will make possible to build in orbit... It'd be cool to see Starship as a ferry shuttle, dwarfed in size by interplanetary cyclers or whatever. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vmpglenn: Originally Posted By Hesperus: And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. Which Starship will make possible to build in orbit... It'd be cool to see Starship as a ferry shuttle, dwarfed in size by interplanetary cyclers or whatever. 
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ZWE
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Posted: 5/14/2021 3:00:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Something the size of a fairly large building, doing a bellyflop. And yet as big as this sucker is. The future will likely demand far larger spacecraft. i don't think we will see a whole lot larger that is actually capable of landing. Use something the size of starship to launch supplies and you can make quite the space station and put some beast engines on it or just have a starship push it, never leaves orbit except maybe to enter a different one. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 3:00:23 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm waiting for a scifi show to include a Starship cameo..... something like an episode of The Expanse, where there's a greasy belter living in a dented old SN40 (looking a lot like a dented old Airstream on Earth). "This old thing? Yeah, she's been around the Solar System 5 times."
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:24:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Master_of_Orion]
[#27]
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:37:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By webtaz99: It's easy to assume that, but it's just an assumption. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By webtaz99: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It can be done, and would actually be easier than growing them on the ISS. Gravity largely affects root development. The bigger issue is the soil having the necessary things for plants to grow. Unfortunately, it's not Brawndo. No, it's a hypothesis built on the current state of zero g plant growth that is ongoing at the ISS and previous Russian experiments. We do need the results from China's experiment currently on the Moon for further development. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:27:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_of_Orion: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/43261/production_diagram-1942236.jpg
So SN20 coming right after SN16? I think we may actually see an orbital launch this summer!  |
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ZWE
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:14:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By t75fnaco3pwzhd: So SN20 coming right after SN16? I think we may actually see an orbital launch this summer! https://media.tenor.com/images/101688f8f00e5626e045232b83f16d86/tenor.gif they were shooting for early july. would be a pretty fucking sweet firework |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:26:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: they were shooting for early july. would be a pretty fucking sweet firework Even sweeter than the Middle East fireworks we have now.  Attached File |
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ZWE
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:30:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoseCuervo: Even sweeter than the Middle East fireworks we have now. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/405668/h8oogc63h2z61_jpg-1941651.JPG as impressive as those fireworks are I'll take one giant ass rocket made for good any day. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:18:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: The first wave should be older, past child bearing years, with emphasis on those with fewer ties to earth, little to no family. They have more experience with life and things that can go wrong. Let wisdom lead the way. Nick |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:19:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Skibane: Now try doing that someplace where latency makes it impossible to accomplish via remote control. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Skibane: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: I still get hung up on the math, sensor fusion, and programming behind the gimballing to make that happen. Now try doing that someplace where latency makes it impossible to accomplish via remote control. Nick |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:21:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Commando_Guy: I take it you're an old fart too? Nick Us zoomers are gonna go to mars and yeet some tide pods bro |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:21:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: as impressive as those fireworks are I'll take one giant ass rocket made for good any day. Superheavy will literally be the most powerful vehicle man has made. Thermal output will be on the order of 230GW, roughly equal to the average output of Italy. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Commando_Guy: I take it you're an old fart too? Nick Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Commando_Guy: Originally Posted By shooter_gregg: The first wave should be older, past child bearing years, with emphasis on those with fewer ties to earth, little to no family. They have more experience with life and things that can go wrong. Let wisdom lead the way. Nick |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:53:53 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't see this happening simply because ticket cost would be mind boggling but they dream big at SpaceX. Video inside
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ZWE
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:49:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tnriverluver: I don't see this happening simply because ticket cost would be mind boggling but they dream big at SpaceX. Video inside
By elon math you may be able to fly halfway around the world in under an hour for a couple grand. He was talking about costs being as low as a couple million per launch point to point. The mars version of starship is supposed to take 100 but thats essentially with everything they need for multiple years or at least the few month trip there. For a 1 hour flight packed like an airliner you may be able to cram 1000 people in one especially if they make an even bigger one or just an extended cabin for this purpose. I think the main thing that makes this a good way in the future is all the ruds they have had so far most of which have been due to some raptor issue. Then you've got all the raptors that shit the bed on test fires. Engine reliability needs to be damn near flawless before people will want to land in one of these beasts. Landing needs to become boring not surprising. That feeling we all had waiting for the dust to settle when sn15 came down to be sure it was still there needs to be gone. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:56:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tnriverluver: I don't see this happening simply because ticket cost would be mind boggling but they dream big at SpaceX. Video inside
Elon has said fueling Starship would be about $100,000. At 100 passengers... that's $1000 per in fuel cost. A passenger plane uses about $30,000 in fuel for say a trans-Atlantic flight with 160 passengers so $188 per passenger (not including crew) I could totally see people paying $15-20,000 to be anywhere in the world in 30min-90min max. It will certainly be expensive for a while, that's the nature if new things and how things get funded to eventually become common place. But if Starship gets approval for human passengers then it will most likely be the cheapest ride to space there is. I think Virgin's suborbital plane thrill ride is selling tickets for $100,000 a pop... and that doesn't even take you anywhere. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:57:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Landing needs to become boring not surprising. This service is targeted at ballers - risk-takers. They will actually pay extra for "surprising". 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2021 7:56:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Unfortunately rocketlab had a failure of their second stage this morning. Failed to light after separation. Really surprising as those electric pump Rutherford engines are super simple and reliable.
They were also trying to recover the first stage again. Don't know if that was canceled due to the failure or not. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 8:05:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_of_Orion: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/43261/production_diagram-1942236.jpg
So if 16 is successful they aren't going to bother with 17, 18, or 19? |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 8:38:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: I work with PID loops for a living and I can't imagine how they could have gotten it that close on the first few tries. Frigging mind blowing. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 8:54:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: Unfortunately rocketlab had a failure of their second stage this morning. Failed to light after separation. Really surprising as those electric pump Rutherford engines are super simple and reliable. They were also trying to recover the first stage again. Don't know if that was canceled due to the failure or not. Damn |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 10:06:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE: So if 16 is successful they aren't going to bother with 17, 18, or 19? Sounds like, I mean they already skipped 12, 13 and 14 to get to 15. I can't say with any authority though. Either way, development is progressing. If 20 is intended for the first orbital launch will it be the first prototype to have vacuum raptors? I see they are working on more Boosters.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2021 10:12:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Sounds like, I mean they already skipped 12, 13 and 14 to get to 15. I can't say with any authority though. Either way, development is progressing. If 20 is intended for the first orbital launch will it be the first prototype to have vacuum raptors? I see they are working on more Boosters. RVAC mounting hardware has already been spotted a while back, welded on to some thrust pucks. I don't think they were flight model thrust pucks, but were some boilerplate models to check mounting. I wonder if they'll hang down past the center raptors since they are so long. Though I know the mounting point is higher up on the puck dome |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 10:25:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SGT-Fish: RVAC mounting hardware has already been spotted a while back, welded on to some thrust pucks. I don't think they were flight model thrust pucks, but were some boilerplate models to check mounting. I wonder if they'll hang down past the center raptors since they are so long. Though I know the mounting point is higher up on the puck dome I still can't get over the design flexibility, simplicity and versatility of Starship compared to the Space Shuttle. I mean, space is hard, famously hard. But compared to the Shuttle... There is no comparison. If only for the fact that the Shuttle requires a very long and perfect runway to land and practically speaking you could land Starship on a large helicopter landing pad. I mean, theoretically speaking Starship could be conducting Starlink launches before the end of next year and landing literal tons of hardware on the Moon a year or so after that. We only ever had 5 Shuttle orbiters... Well... 5 and a half if you count Buran while Starship will, circumstances permitting. Be mass produced like beer kegs.
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ME, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2021 10:29:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I still can't get over the design flexibility, simplicity and versatility of Starship compared to the Space Shuttle. I mean, space is hard, famously hard. But compared to the Shuttle... There is no comparison. If only for the fact that the Shuttle requires a very long and perfect runway to land and practically speaking you could land Starship on a large helicopter landing pad. I mean, theoretically speaking Starship could be conducting Starlink launches before the end of next year and landing literal tons of hardware on the Moon a year or so after that. We only ever had 5 of them... Well... 5 and a half if you count Buran while Starship will, circumstances permitting. Be mass produced like beer kegs.Starship could be launching starlink this summer if the build one with a launch bay. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 11:11:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Sounds like, I mean they already skipped 12, 13 and 14 to get to 15. I can't say with any authority though. Either way, development is progressing. If 20 is intended for the first orbital launch will it be the first prototype to have vacuum raptors? I see they are working on more Boosters. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By AJE: So if 16 is successful they aren't going to bother with 17, 18, or 19? Sounds like, I mean they already skipped 12, 13 and 14 to get to 15. I can't say with any authority though. Either way, development is progressing. If 20 is intended for the first orbital launch will it be the first prototype to have vacuum raptors? I see they are working on more Boosters. If 15 and 16 are successful at making multiple launches (and landings), there's probably not much else to test in the limited flights they are already doing, and it would be time to move on to orbital tests (SN20). Already been stated that Musk expects failures on the road to success, so the schedule was planned with more sacrificial prototypes than were apparently needed. It'll be interesting to see how many times this 'skipping over obsolete prototypes' happens before they switch to production models. |
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