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Posted: 12/8/2003 6:17:21 AM EDT
I feel all busted up over this, really.
But I see the House of Suadi going bye bye.
It will not be a good thing for the world if
Suadi Arabia becomes an islamic state like Iran.


Al-Qaida has launched a campaign designed to undermine the security and finances of the Saudi royal family.

Western intelligence sources said the latest al-Qaida attacks indicate a campaign is underway to isolate the Saudi royal family and threaten its financial base. The campaign is based on intimidating leading Arab and Western advisers from remaining in the kingdom.

The Nov. 9 attack on the Muhaya compound appeared to signal a shift in al-Qaida strategy. Until then, the sources said, al-Qaida targeted Western nationals in the kingdom who were not considered crucial to the regime's survival.

But in the Muhaya suicide car bombing, the target was a compound that housed Lebanese financial advisers to the royal family.

The sources said the Muhaya compound included bankers and smugglers who facilitated earnings of billions of dollars in undeclared revenue.

"The royal family is in a panic and now believes al-Qaida is playing for keeps," a senior Western intelligence source said. "Without its financial advisers, the family is completely exposed."

Al-Qaida has sown panic throughout the kingdom's security forces by demonstrating it can penetrate military and other facilities with ease. British and U.S. advisers have been of little use, the sources said, because the Saudi royal family does not want to disclose information that would demonstrate the extent of al-Qaida's influence in the country.

On Nov. 22, a fire was reported in the Riyad Armed Forces hospital. The fire destroyed several rooms and caused security forces to be placed on alert throughout the region. Several foreign nurses were injured.

"This is a deliberate campaign that seeks to increase the pressure on the royal family by telling them they aren't safe anywhere, even within their own military," another Western intelligence analyst said. "This has sparked a debate over how to reconcile with al-Qaida and end this war."

On Dec. 1, Saudi Arabia provided the first official details of the Nov. 9 bombing at the Muhaya compound. Al-Qaida had smuggled in explosives from Yemen to Saudi Arabia. In late November, Saudi authorities found an additional 1.2 tons of explosives believed to have been smuggled in from Yemen.

An interior ministry statement said that in the Nov. 9 attack, al-Qaida insurgents approached the Muhaya compound while firing rifles and hurling grenades toward the gate. While the firefight was taking place, a jeep painted with the insignia of security forces and packed with 300 kilograms explosives drove into the compound.

"Then it was blown up in a suicide operation," the statement said. "Investigators have found out who is behind this operation and measures are still being taken. Security forces are still chasing the perpetrators and, God willing, they will be found and brought to justice."

In Sanaa, meanwhile, Yemeni security forces arrested a senior al-Qaida leader, Mohammed Hamdi Al Ahdal, suspected of masterminding the suicide bombing of the USS Cole.

In 1999 Al Ahdal was arrested in Saudi Arabia and spent 14 months in prison for his ties to Saudi billionaire bomber Osama bin Laden. He was then deported to Yemen.

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35978
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:23:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2003 6:24:36 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:28:22 AM EDT
Is this where I shed a tear now? [;D]
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:31:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I have not been impressed with the "Worldnetdaily" as a reliable source in the past, though. I would take articles published there with a grain of salt.
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I usually won't post an article from them so I agree. This one just jumped out at me since other news sources have been reporting the same thing and we have terror levels up again in that area and the fact that the latest terror attacks have been on their soil.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:33:37 AM EDT
This is a direct result of President Bush's war on terrorism strategy. THIS is the real reason we are in Iraq.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:39:26 AM EDT
Much better to let nasties play in someone else' sandbox than our own. Perhaps they will now realize that the policy of appeasing these viscious cretins only works so long as you are willing to give them whatever they want. It didn't work for Europe. It didn't work for Russia. It didn't work for Israel. It won't work for Saud.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:44:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:45:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: It will not be a good thing for the world if Suadi Arabia becomes an islamic state like Iran.
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How can Saudi Arabia get [b]MORE[/b] repressive than it already is? In what ways does the current regime in Saudi Arabia differ significantly from the one in Iran? Sure, the Saudis don't have a nuclear program --as far as we know-- and they do sell us oil, but what are the chief differences? Both regimes support and fund anti-US terrorists, and have for years. Both regimes are agents of radical Islam and hate America, regardless of what their ambassadors or highly paid American lobbyists say.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:47:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: Much better to let nasties play in someone else' sandbox than our own. Perhaps they will now realize that the policy of appeasing these viscious cretins only works so long as you are willing to give them whatever they want. It didn't work for Europe. It didn't work for Russia. It didn't work for Israel. It won't work for Saudi.
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The difference is that they don't have a choice now. With US forces in Iraq, we can and HAVE exerted political force to get them to crack down on their terrorists. The Saudi's have always walked a fine line with the terrorists. They have given support to them in past to appease them. They have also actively tried to turn the terrorist's wrath outward (hence protecting themselves). Now, they can no longer get away with that kind of policy. AND we have President Bush's leadership in the war on terror to thank (not to mention thousands of American troops in Iraq).
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:59:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: In what ways does the current regime in Saudi Arabia differ significantly from the one in Iran?
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Your joking right? The government of Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy. The government of Iran is Fundamentalist.
Sure, the Saudis don't have a nuclear program --as far as we know-- and they do sell us oil, but what are the chief differences?
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We have diplomatic relations and a mutual relationship with the Saudis. They are our allies.
Both regimes support and fund anti-US terrorists, and have for years. Both regimes are agents of radical Islam and hate America, regardless of what their ambassadors or highly paid American lobbyists say.
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I disagree. The Saudi royal family are not radical Islamists. They are a ruling family that has a large population of radical Islamists. They have set policy in the past to best preserve their ruling power. They are doing the same now by cracking down on the terrorists. The American occupation of Iraq has given us the political leverage necessary get the Saudi leaders to help us fight the war on terror. I write this for others reading, since we have had this discussion before and you are obviously unable to consider the point of view that the Iraq occupation IS a valid course of action in the war on terror.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:05:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: It will not be a good thing for the world if Suadi Arabia becomes an islamic state like Iran.
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How can Saudi Arabia get [b]MORE[/b] repressive than it already is? In what ways does the current regime in Saudi Arabia differ significantly from the one in Iran? Sure, the Saudis don't have a nuclear program --as far as we know-- and they do sell us oil, but what are the chief differences? Both regimes support and fund anti-US terrorists, and have for years. Both regimes are agents of radical Islam and hate America, regardless of what their ambassadors or highly paid American lobbyists say.
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Even though I wish to nuke Suadi land straight to hell, at this point they can be manipulated a little and we don't have go in and over throw them. It would be a worse situation for the world if they became a full blown islamic state with as much money as they have. The best thing right now is that it will cause more deaths for the muslims. They will be a little busy killing each other and I can't think of a better Christmas present than that.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:05:55 AM EDT
Of course the Iraq occupation is an excellent strategy in the war on terror. Anyone not realizing this is looking through a small picture window that limits the view of the rest of the scene. This was perhaps the best strategic military descision since the second world war and has proved its benefit so many fold that Generations to come will see it as pure military genius. This is no towing of party line, this is simple fact. Every attack that happens there is one that does not happen here. What a fantastic opportunity to flush these sewer dwellers out into the open where they can be dealt with. At the same time we are truly helping people who previously didn't know if they would be rounded up by Saddams death squads or not for sneezing in the wrong direction.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:09:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: ... This was perhaps the best strategic military descision since the second world war and has proved its benefit so many fold that Generations to come will see it as pure military genius.
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And political genius.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:11:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Q3131A: This is a direct result of President Bush's war on terrorism strategy. THIS is the real reason we are in Iraq.
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Osama Bin's real target has always been Arabia. (Bin's choice of mostly Arabian terrorists was not by accident.) Oh he'll kill Americans any chance he gets but [b]his real goal is the removal of the ruling family in Arabia and the installation of a Islamic Fundamentalist Government.[/b] IMHO, the real reason we're in Iraq is because our presence in Arabia had simply become untenable. [b]Look at Iraq as one big fucking aircraft carrier.[/b] From Iraq, we can influence all others in the Middle East. (Like Iran and Syria.) 5sub
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:16:32 AM EDT
This is good news for the US. Al Qaeda has long relied on support from Saudi Arabia, with a wink and a nudge from the government. Since last spring, though, al Qaeda has turned on the Saudi government, and the Saudi government has returned the favor. With any luck the Saudis will shut down a lot of al Qaeda support infrastructure.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:21:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: [b]Look at Iraq as one big fucking aircraft carrier.[/b] From Iraq, we can influence all others in the Middle East. (Like Iran and Syria.)
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Ding Ding Ding. The Saudi's would never/could never allow us to stage the kind of troops necessary to fight the war on terror.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:34:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Q3131A: Your joking right? The government of Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy. The government of Iran is Fundamentalist.
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I'm not joking at all. The government of Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist monarchy, regardless of how closely they run their lives to the ideals to which they hold the rest of the country. They are incredibly repressive to any outside --especially western-- influence. The government of Iran is a fundamentalist democracy, but the mullahs have the final say. The net difference between the two systems is negligible.
We have diplomatic relations and a mutual relationship with the Saudis.
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You're right, but this doesn't diminish one iota the loathing they have for us.
They are our allies.
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In what sense? Please define "allies." With friends like these...
I disagree. The Saudi royal family are not radical Islamists. They are a ruling family that has a large population of radical Islamists. They have set policy in the past to best preserve their ruling power. They are doing the same now by cracking down on the terrorists.
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The al Saud are Wahabbi Islamists, regardless of how they live their personal lives. They show one face to the world --playboys with mansions in Aspen and Monte Carlo, blonde haired women and solid gold faucets in their Gulfstream Vs-- and another face entirely to their subjects --good, pious servants of Allah. They are now directing their security forces to crack down on the terrorists they've harbored and funded for so long only because their own are under attack, not out of any concern for their "allies." They certainly were not concerned enough to assist the FBI in investigating any terrorist attacks against Americans in Saudi Arabia, or against Americans anywhere by Saudi Arabians.
The American occupation of Iraq has given us the political leverage necessary get the Saudi leaders to help us fight the war on terror.
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Wait, I thought you said the Saudis were our allies? Now we have to invade the country next door --essentially holding a gun to their heads-- to get them to "help us fight the war on terror?" You're making my point for me here.
I write this for others reading, since we have had this discussion before and you are obviously unable to consider the point of view that the Iraq occupation IS a valid course of action in the war on terror.
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Did I mention the occupation of Iraq anywhere in my post? I did not. You can't let that go. I've made my point and moved on. You are unable to process the recent past and current events and come to the obvious conclusion that the Saudis hate us only slightly less than they hate any other western power, and that only because we keep them afloat with our oil purchases and arms sales.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:51:02 AM EDT
As a soldier training up for Iraq right now (24hr pass from Ft.Lewis) I can say that I'd far rathar use my skills and spend my life on eliminating the Saudis than continuing to plug the dam with our fingers in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:55:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:00:18 AM EDT
Hey I predicted this as something that was going to happen NEXT year. Those silly al qaida fucks are screwing up my whole prediction!! Those fuckers!!!!!!! Oh that was in one of the bible code threads IIRC, or it was on a different board, or was it in the survival forum?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:25:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I'm with Jarhead. Despite relations and treaties, etc. Saudi remains our primary enemy in the middle east. They are the source. As for oil, we often buy it cheaper from nations much more hostile. We pretend they aren't the number one promoters of radical Islam, they pretend to give us a good deal on oil. Probably the best thing tht can happen is they show their true face and we finally deal with them directly.
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With control Of Iraq, we're in a fine position to deal with the Arabians. (If not fine, then the best position we could have.) I expect the monarchy to fold and likely within the next ten years. Bottom line: We must have the oil. 5sub
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2003 11:27:18 AM EDT by Q3131A]
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted by Q3131A: The American occupation of Iraq has given us the political leverage necessary get the Saudi leaders to help us fight the war on terror.
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Wait, I thought you said the Saudis were our allies? Now we have to invade the country next door --essentially holding a gun to their heads-- to get them to "help us fight the war on terror?" You're making my point for me here.
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They are our allies. And sometime Allies need prodding to do what we want; especially when it comes to internal issues. The Saudis have claimed that they have killed more Al-Qaida terrorist in the last 6 months than any other country. They also claim to have shut down the funding apparatus and expelled militant clerics. They are doing exactly what we want them to do. They are fighting Al-Qaida in their country. This has the potential to keep the terrorists busy with domestic battles for years.
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted by Q3131A:I write this for others reading, since we have had this discussion before and you are obviously unable to consider the point of view that the Iraq occupation IS a valid course of action in the war on terror.
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Did I mention the occupation of Iraq anywhere in my post? I did not. You can't let that go. I've made my point and moved on.
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The point was that you never answered my question in the last thread. You just ranted on. Here is the question again: What are the Tactical, Strategic and Political ramifications of an American occupied Iraq, and how does that help us fight the war on terror.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 12:21:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I'm with Jarhead. Despite relations and treaties, etc. Saudi remains our primary enemy in the middle east. They are the source. As for oil, we often buy it cheaper from nations much more hostile. We pretend they aren't the number one promoters of radical Islam, they pretend to give us a good deal on oil. Probably the best thing tht can happen is they show their true face and we finally deal with them directly.
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I am also with Jarhead22 and Steyr, No one with two brain cells could possibly call the Saudis our allies, they are at best 'fair weather friends' and should NEVER be relied upon or trusted. 5suslr5 has it right when he says the Saudis will "show their true face", at that time we should definatly 'deal' with them with 'EXTREME PREDUDICE' There will never be peace in the world until ALL radical Islamic based Monarhies and Dictatorships are truly Democracies. That is certainly easier said than done, but it is also obvious to me that it is best to 'deal' with them THERE and NOW rather than here and later!!
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 12:32:29 PM EDT
The Saudis helped create and feed the monster and now it has turned on them. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 12:36:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZMAN-1: There will never be peace in the world until ALL radical Islamic based Monarhies and Dictatorships are truly Democracies.
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Hey Sherlock, if a "Democracy" is what you hand these people, they will choose a "radical Islamic" one. I see no difference.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 12:40:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Q3131A: They are our allies. And sometime Allies need prodding to do what we want; especially when it comes to internal issues.
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I guess I'm not going to get your definition of "allies," am I?
The Saudis have claimed that they have killed more Al-Qaida terrorist in the last 6 months than any other country. They also claim to have shut down the funding apparatus and expelled militant clerics.
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They claim? They can claim all they want because they are a repressive Islamist regime with no free press and we will never know what really happens there. Regardless, what the al Saud have finally gotten off their asses and done in the last six months doesn't make them an ally. It makes them opportunists and bandwagon jumpers. The long term trends repeatedly demonstrated by the al Saud's direct complicity in terrorism over the past twenty years or more reveal more than this show they've been putting on recently. You don't want to address that, just like you didn't want to address some of the other points I raised in my second post in this thread. That's fine, but get off your high horse. You don't work for the Carlyle Group by any chance, do you?
They are doing exactly what we want them to do. They are fighting Al-Qaida in their country. This has the potential to keep the terrorists busy with domestic battles for years.
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For years? They just started a very belated and not terribly enthusiastic campaign and you're talking about the good it's going to do for years? That's pretty optimistic given their longtime funding and harboring of terrorists, don't you think?
The point was that you never answered my question in the last thread. You just ranted on. Here is the question again: What are the Tactical, Strategic and Political ramifications of an American occupied Iraq, and how does that help us fight the war on terror.
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If you've got a question about the last thread, go back to the last thread and ask it. Don't try to hide the weakness of your present argument with something you feel is unresolved from a previous discussion on a different topic.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 1:19:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 4:55:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By Q3131A: They are our allies. And sometime Allies need prodding to do what we want; especially when it comes to internal issues.
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I guess I'm not going to get your definition of "allies," am I?
The Saudis have claimed that they have killed more Al-Qaida terrorist in the last 6 months than any other country. They also claim to have shut down the funding apparatus and expelled militant clerics.
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They claim? They can claim all they want because they are a repressive Islamist regime with no free press and we will never know what really happens there. Regardless, what the al Saud have finally gotten off their asses and done in the last six months doesn't make them an ally. It makes them opportunists and bandwagon jumpers. The long term trends repeatedly demonstrated by the al Saud's direct complicity in terrorism over the past twenty years or more reveal more than this show they've been putting on recently. You don't want to address that, just like you didn't want to address some of the other points I raised in my second post in this thread. That's fine, but get off your high horse. You don't work for the Carlyle Group by any chance, do you?
They are doing exactly what we want them to do. They are fighting Al-Qaida in their country. This has the potential to keep the terrorists busy with domestic battles for years.
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For years? They just started a very belated and not terribly enthusiastic campaign and you're talking about the good it's going to do for years? That's pretty optimistic given their longtime funding and harboring of terrorists, don't you think?
The point was that you never answered my question in the last thread. You just ranted on. Here is the question again: What are the Tactical, Strategic and Political ramifications of an American occupied Iraq, and how does that help us fight the war on terror.
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If you've got a question about the last thread, go back to the last thread and ask it. Don't try to hide the weakness of your present argument with something you feel is unresolved from a previous discussion on a different topic.
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Link Posted: 12/8/2003 5:22:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:Islamic countries... 1. Need to feel defeated. 2. Need to fear us. 3. Need to be made to understand they cannot win. 4. Need to understand that we will destroy them completely rather than be subject to their threat. And the United States must stand willing to impose and back up those ideas. When given no other alternative except total destruction, Islamic countries like WWII Germany and Japan, will opt for a new way of life.
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Right on!! I remember the concern I felt after hearing about thousands of Iraqi troops disarmed and sent home after surrendering to us during the war. I can imagine many of the current attacks are being carried out by these ex-POW's.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:37:16 PM EDT
Is the U.S still paying the salary for the ex-iraqi army members??? That would seem rather counter productive.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:46:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count: Is the U.S still paying the salary for the ex-iraqi army members??? That would seem rather counter productive.
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Well, if anything the media says can be beleved, we are NOT paying the ex Iraqi army anything on a monthly basis. We have paied them a couple of one-time payments, the largest of which was about 50 bucks each when the riots get too out of hand. Supposedly they are to be paid out of the revinue from oil sales- but bombers have sucessfully kept any large quantities of oil from moving out of Iraq.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:05:37 AM EDT
The Saudis are our allies when it is convient for them. Now that the tables have turned on them good. They have walked a fine line for too long. Nobody ever wants to ruffle their feathers. I still say that whole region need to be a huge parking lot.
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