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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:36:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: Very interesting structures. Some of these folks seemed to work (cut and move them around) with stones like they were made of cardboard. I can accept some theories about how they did it in Egypt, where it's mostly flat. However, Peru is not only steep but also very high and the logistics to shelter and feed massive armies of slaves do not look very practical or feasible. Found these two other videos about these structures. The second video's author agrees with my theory that there two very different technologies (civilizations?) responsible for them. Interesting structure. Why did they build it?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPDydDnGba0This video emphasizes the differences between the builds. Some photos show cuts and fittings that were clearly made by folks who could sculpt and move massive boulders like they were cardboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpjJxN17VBsLook at this. It's like someone cut and fitted these (massive) boulders in odd shapes like butter with a hot knife. The earthquake-proof makes sense, but it seems they went way above and beyond what was needed, thus spending a lot more time and resources if using the technologies described (or speculated) so far. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/InceWalls01_JPG-814433.JPG Like so many members here think happened. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:37:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
It just can't be explained. I'm going with aliens, maybe giants, or super advanced intergalactic mega humans.  Edit: SORCERY!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By Rossi: Very interesting structures. Some of these folks seemed to work (cut and move them around) with stones like they were made of cardboard. I can accept some theories about how they did it in Egypt, where it's mostly flat. However, Peru is not only steep but also very high and the logistics to shelter and feed massive armies of slaves do not look very practical or feasible. Found these two other videos about these structures. The second video's author agrees with my theory that there two very different technologies (civilizations?) responsible for them. Interesting structure. Why did they build it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPDydDnGba0This video emphasizes the differences between the builds. Some photos show cuts and fittings that were clearly made by folks who could sculpt and move massive boulders like they were cardboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpjJxN17VBsLook at this. It's like someone cut and fitted these (massive) boulders in odd shapes like butter with a hot knife. The earthquake-proof makes sense, but it seems they went way above and beyond what was needed, thus spending a lot more time and resources if using the technologies described (or speculated) so far. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/InceWalls01_JPG-814433.JPG Edit: SORCERY!! A modern man of technology, such as yourself, with a time machine would be a sorcerer in that day and age. I think you are onto something. After all, what started all these oral histories of sorcerers, gods with powers, magic, and other phenomena? Why'd you do it? And can I borrow your time machine? I need to make nice with an ugly high school chick who ended up being smoking hot. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:38:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: I agree we are speculating here since we do not have enough data to conclusively determine who built them. I was looking at this photo again and found the damaged part quite interesting. If you look at the crumbled stones, some do not even seem to have either originally there or were very carelessly fit into place. Someone apparently even added some shims to compensate for the height difference. If that was an earthquake damage and the wall built by the same folks, we would expect that they would have matched the stones, isn't it? What do you make of that? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/IncaWalls07a_jpg-814953.JPG |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:42:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: headstoner]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: @headstoner A modern man of technology, such as yourself, with a time machine would be a sorcerer in that day and age. I think you are onto something. After all, what started all these oral histories of sorcerers, gods with powers, magic, and other phenomena? Why'd you do it? And can I borrow your time machine? I need to make nice with an ugly high school chick who ended up being smoking hot. I told you how to do it when you were very young and said i would not repeat myself, you dont remember?  Besides, a lot of those savages needed some structure, what was i supposed to do just let 'em continue to beat each other to death with rocks? Theres also a pretty cool video a page or two back about rubbing 3 stones together to get a perfectly flat surface. 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Federov: Clearly that was created by godless savages banging one rock on another. Like so many members here think happened. That, large numbers of slaves, and thousands of years of practice working stone (and no internet to waste all their time surfing)... |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:45:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: headstoner]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Hardly “godless” - they had a pretty large pantheon of gods... That, large numbers of slaves, and thousands of years of practice working stone (and no internet to waste all their time surfing)... |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:54:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
It definitely looks like that part of the wall collapsed or at least shifted for some reason. The shims may be someones attempt to reconstruct the wall but they half assed it and what we see is the result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By Rossi: I agree we are speculating here since we do not have enough data to conclusively determine who built them. I was looking at this photo again and found the damaged part quite interesting. If you look at the crumbled stones, some do not even seem to have either originally there or were very carelessly fit into place. Someone apparently even added some shims to compensate for the height difference. If that was an earthquake damage and the wall built by the same folks, we would expect that they would have matched the stones, isn't it? What do you make of that? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/IncaWalls07a_jpg-814953.JPG  The central part also sits on top of a really massive boulder properly cut and sit on the ground. The part on the right, including the (very) poorly cut foundation, really look "half assed", isn't it? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 4:58:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rossi]
[#8]
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Hardly “godless” - they had a pretty large pantheon of gods... That, large numbers of slaves, and thousands of years of practice working stone (and no internet to waste all their time surfing)... Originally Posted By headstoner: Its amazing what can be done over time if at some point you just start doing it. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:08:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Hardly “godless” - they had a pretty large pantheon of gods... That, large numbers of slaves, and thousands of years of practice working stone (and no internet to waste all their time surfing)... Okay. Sure. That means that you can open a Ferrari factory in downtown Baltimore and end up with the best made car anywhere in the world. This what people on Ar15.com actually believe. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: headstoner]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: Like whoever was building that part wasn't as knowledgeable or careful as the ones building the central part? The central part also sits on top of a really massive boulder properly cut and sit on the ground. The part on the right, including the (very) poorly cut foundation, really look "half assed", isn't it? It also may have been built to mimic the middle years later I suppose and was not done with the necessary care. If I had to guess i would say it was all done during the same "build", even the left side is built like the right. I think thats what they had at the time and decided to use 3 different sized foundation pieces for the right left and middle, one side just happened ti shift and collapse while the ithers stayed up. If you look at the far right the top looks like it is leaning quite a bit, if thats the case the far left may have taken the brunt of any force that would have shifted the entire structure. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:38:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
@brass I told you how to do it when you were very young and said i would not repeat myself, you dont remember? Besides, a lot of those savages needed some structure, what was i supposed to do just let 'em continue to beat each other to death with rocks? Theres also a pretty cool video a page or two back about rubbing 3 stones together to get a perfectly flat surface. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By brass: @headstoner A modern man of technology, such as yourself, with a time machine would be a sorcerer in that day and age. I think you are onto something. After all, what started all these oral histories of sorcerers, gods with powers, magic, and other phenomena? Why'd you do it? And can I borrow your time machine? I need to make nice with an ugly high school chick who ended up being smoking hot. I told you how to do it when you were very young and said i would not repeat myself, you dont remember? Besides, a lot of those savages needed some structure, what was i supposed to do just let 'em continue to beat each other to death with rocks? Theres also a pretty cool video a page or two back about rubbing 3 stones together to get a perfectly flat surface. I do find it fascinating, and am bent on making at least ONE of the plates print fully and evenly on glass with a layer of blue approximately 200 milionths of an inch thick (dykem). Sharpie is 20 millionths, and it won't print in some spots. That's the amazing technical level I'm at right now. With the amount of time I have into these plates (thanks for the tip!), even usign diamond and silicon carbide and a reference set of glass and ceramic flats, I can't get it correct, it's true that it will NEVER be _flat_, temp changes will make it convex or concave, it's just how it is, that's why the process starts with it mounted on the dynamically static Bessel points (tripod points), then lapped flat, any change and it won't be. Change humidity, temp, and it won't be, not by much, but it'll be one or the other, or in worse case, both. However, I'm seeing aprocryphal data that shows into the 100 millionths of an inch without instruments, and I'm not getting that result. 
All the more, this thread is mind blowing, as I've ground away about 1 cubic foot of granite & quartzite (harder) without power tools in the past month or so, I failed in making a miniature diamond rope saw with 550 cord, no matter the tension, it won't cut straight. I suppose trying to redo this stuff from scratch takes a lot more money, and it isn't as easy as the guys making videos saying "Yeah, just take a cable with abrasive, move it fast and push down". 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:44:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Federov: "Hey shit for life slave, just bang this rock on another until you fit it to this other one until you got it to the right precise measurement and you'll get a potato" Okay. Sure. That means that you can open a Ferrari factory in downtown Baltimore and end up with the best made car anywhere in the world. This what people on Ar15.com actually believe. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:51:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: I can't do better than 500 millionths. The trick to it is when to switch to the next set in rotation - "When the top surface switches from convex to concave". They mesh prior to that and appear to have full fit. No matter what, I end up with 2 concave and 1 convex, though they're nearly as flat as glass, they aren't. It's within the thickness of water, they'll vacuum together, but prussian blue doesn't print evenly across the surfaces, it's always more concentrated dots in center or periphery. I don't have test equipment that can measure smaller than 500 millionths of an inch, but I know they aren't perfectly flat. I'm seriously wondering how they defined flat without sphereometers and differential indicators. Maybe accounts for why they couldn't get more than 0.01" accuracy until they built better stuff to make better plates. I do find it fascinating, and am bent on making at least ONE of the plates print fully and evenly on glass with a layer of blue approximately 200 milionths of an inch thick (dykem). Sharpie is 20 millionths, and it won't print in some spots. That's the amazing technical level I'm at right now. With the amount of time I have into these plates (thanks for the tip!), even usign diamond and silicon carbide and a reference set of glass and ceramic flats, I can't get it correct, it's true that it will NEVER be _flat_, temp changes will make it convex or concave, it's just how it is, that's why the process starts with it mounted on the dynamically static Bessel points (tripod points), then lapped flat, any change and it won't be. Change humidity, temp, and it won't be, not by much, but it'll be one or the other, or in worse case, both. However, I'm seeing aprocryphal data that shows into the 100 millionths of an inch without instruments, and I'm not getting that result.
All the more, this thread is mind blowing, as I've ground away about 1 cubic foot of granite & quartzite (harder) without power tools in the past month or so, I failed in making a miniature diamond rope saw with 550 cord, no matter the tension, it won't cut straight. I suppose trying to redo this stuff from scratch takes a lot more money, and it isn't as easy as the guys making videos saying "Yeah, just take a cable with abrasive, move it fast and push down". I cant imagine getting a cable to cut with that level of precision, the cable itself wouldnt be made anywhere close to those specs. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 5:55:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: What some people seem to think, sadly, is that little brown South Americans could never produce craftsmen or artisans, despite a hundred generations of practice... ...but my new nowadays regular baby is learning simple things at a phenomenal rate!!! |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:10:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
What some people seem to think, sadly, is that little brown South Americans could never produce craftsmen or artisans, despite a hundred generations of practice... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Federov: "Hey shit for life slave, just bang this rock on another until you fit it to this other one until you got it to the right precise measurement and you'll get a potato" Okay. Sure. That means that you can open a Ferrari factory in downtown Baltimore and end up with the best made car anywhere in the world. This what people on Ar15.com actually believe. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RIO-lover]
[#16]
Obviously carbon dating will only tell the age of the stone not when it was cut and stacked.
But if they found some plant leaf sandwiched between 2 stones they could tell the age of that plant and know when the stones were set. Maybe also digging in the backfill of a wall they could find some organic material to date and see when it was backfilled. Just throwing out ideas. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:23:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RIO-lover:
Obviously carbon dating will only tell the age of the stone not when it was cut and stacked. But if they found some plant leaf sandwiched between 2 stones they could tell the age of that plant and know when the stones were set. Maybe also digging in the backfill of a wall they could find some organic material to date and see when it was backfilled. Just throwing out ideas. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:25:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2minkey: Yeah it's so obvious one might think that someone had looked at such things before. Only they published in a respectable journal, and skipped making a youtube video to accommodate the lazy. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:28:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RIO-lover: Link to said journal ? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
That's not it, it's how that level was achieved, then apparently lost for a thousand or two years before it was figured out again. Information and practices generally don't vanish that quickly and completely, well, unless Islam comes in and destroys all monuments and knowledge, but this is pre-Islam. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Federov: "Hey shit for life slave, just bang this rock on another until you fit it to this other one until you got it to the right precise measurement and you'll get a potato" Okay. Sure. That means that you can open a Ferrari factory in downtown Baltimore and end up with the best made car anywhere in the world. This what people on Ar15.com actually believe. How did they do it? Many generations of stoneworkers, building stuff out of the same rocks their great grandfathers did... And yet, we still have folks like headstoner. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 6:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jacko100]
[#21]
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools.
But I don't see any evidence of exactly when, how, and why. Or answers to some fairly big and obvious questions that would immediately jump out at any rational person who discovered these structures. Simply stating that it wouldn't have been impossible doesn't really address the spirit of this thread. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:19:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Lost for a thousand or two years? Where do you get this shit? Non Stone agers started making stuff out of things other than stone... How did they do it? Many generations of stoneworkers, building stuff out of the same rocks their great grandfathers did... And yet, we still have folks like headstoner. are my kids right when they say im old?
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:27:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100:
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools. But I don't see any evidence of exactly when, how, and why. Or answers to some fairly big and obvious questions that would immediately jump out at any rational person who discovered these structures. Simply stating that it wouldn't have been impossible doesn't really address the spirit of this thread. I have some pretty good ideas on how they could have made most of these structures, but there is room for argument for sure. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:35:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Im not sure, it may have collapsed on that end due to seismic activity, the ground sinking under it on that corner, or from one of the footing stones having an issue and being crushed, or some sort of slick bedding and it simply slide if there is a slope there and people "fixed it" later. It also may have been built to mimic the middle years later I suppose and was not done with the necessary care. If I had to guess i would say it was all done during the same "build", even the left side is built like the right. I think thats what they had at the time and decided to use 3 different sized foundation pieces for the right left and middle, one side just happened ti shift and collapse while the ithers stayed up. If you look at the far right the top looks like it is leaning quite a bit, if thats the case the far left may have taken the brunt of any force that would have shifted the entire structure. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By Rossi: Like whoever was building that part wasn't as knowledgeable or careful as the ones building the central part? The central part also sits on top of a really massive boulder properly cut and sit on the ground. The part on the right, including the (very) poorly cut foundation, really look "half assed", isn't it? It also may have been built to mimic the middle years later I suppose and was not done with the necessary care. If I had to guess i would say it was all done during the same "build", even the left side is built like the right. I think thats what they had at the time and decided to use 3 different sized foundation pieces for the right left and middle, one side just happened ti shift and collapse while the ithers stayed up. If you look at the far right the top looks like it is leaning quite a bit, if thats the case the far left may have taken the brunt of any force that would have shifted the entire structure. Look closely. Even if that stone on the right (the one with the shims on top) was perfectly horizontal, its dimension is wrong (it's shorter than the one on its left that it's supposed to match). It would still need the shims because this wall is not built with those cut-to-fit-odd-shape stones. They are all rectangular. So, like you said, it was a half-assed job. Definitely not the same caliper of the one on its left, let alone those custom-cut boulders. The large foundation stone could have partially sunk, hence the overall slant on that wall segment. It would be great to get more views of that wall. I'll see if I can find anything.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:40:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: That's what I thought initially, until I noticed that the stone with the shims has a lower height, hence the need for the shims. An earthquake would not have reduced its height. It would have broken it, sagged it, tipped it; but would not make it smaller. Look closely. Even if that stone on the right (the one with the shims on top) was perfectly horizontal, its dimension is wrong (it's shorter than the one on its left that it's supposed to match). It would still need the shims because this wall is not built with those cut-to-fit-odd-shape stones. They are all rectangular. So, like you said, it was a half-assed job. Definitely not the same caliper of the one on its left, let alone those custom-cut boulders. The large foundation stone could have partially sunk, hence the overall slant on that wall segment. It would be great to get more views of that wall. I'll see if I can find anything. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/IncaWalls07a_jpg-815184.JPG |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:45:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By RIO-lover:
Obviously carbon dating will only tell the age of the stone not when it was cut and stacked. But if they found some plant leaf sandwiched between 2 stones they could tell the age of that plant and know when the stones were set. Maybe also digging in the backfill of a wall they could find some organic material to date and see when it was backfilled. Just throwing out ideas. Originally Posted By headstoner:
It would be hard to tell when anything made of only stone was built, I've carved a few funny things in boulders in some of the trails I have down back of the fort just for the laughs, I have split a few just to see what was in the middle, other than some sand left behind at some there wouldnt be much evidence as to who, when, or how most was done...other than the trails leading to my shop. I have some pretty good ideas on how they could have made most of these structures, but there is room for argument for sure. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:47:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XDONX3:
Scientists are just realizing that we got hit about 12000 years ago by a asteroid in Greenland. This may very well be where the flood stories of the Bible and many other religions came from. Some of these stone monuments may have been made prior to the impact and man came back to use and improve on them. Sphinx may be older than the Egyptians. Some see weathering from water and that couldn’t have happened unless it was 12000 years old. Also rumored to have a chamber underneath it with records. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:53:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Thats why I wonder if the ground gave way on that corner, causing it to skew and pull away from the middle, then it was shoddly repaired? A stone that may have gotten crushed into dust may have the same effect on the remaining stones. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By Rossi: That's what I thought initially, until I noticed that the stone with the shims has a lower height, hence the need for the shims. An earthquake would not have reduced its height. It would have broken it, sagged it, tipped it; but would not make it smaller. Look closely. Even if that stone on the right (the one with the shims on top) was perfectly horizontal, its dimension is wrong (it's shorter than the one on its left that it's supposed to match). It would still need the shims because this wall is not built with those cut-to-fit-odd-shape stones. They are all rectangular. So, like you said, it was a half-assed job. Definitely not the same caliper of the one on its left, let alone those custom-cut boulders. The large foundation stone could have partially sunk, hence the overall slant on that wall segment. It would be great to get more views of that wall. I'll see if I can find anything. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/IncaWalls07a_jpg-815184.JPG It's not that the original stone (with the right dimensions) was crushed and replaced. If you look at the stone on its right. It has the same lower height. So, someone really screwed up on that one. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 7:59:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100:
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools. But I don't see any evidence of exactly when, how, and why. Or answers to some fairly big and obvious questions that would immediately jump out at any rational person who discovered these structures. Simply stating that it wouldn't have been impossible doesn't really address the spirit of this thread. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:12:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100:
so what causes the "pillowing". did they make them like that because they liked the way it looks? or erosion? or most likely a byproduct of the method they used to liquify the rocks and put them in place? |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Time for another autistic tangent! Last video was about making something be flat. Now let's make something perfectly round, and cnclusively answer a fundamental aspect of the universe in the process. Today's rock is a single perfect crystal of Silicon-28.
 World's Roundest Object! |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:25:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: The idea of trying to get some organic material trapped between the stones is a good one. I haven't seen any papers with that info. Not even sure whether they removed some of the large stones to see what's between or below them. Maybe the "mystery of not knowing exactly" attracts many tourists. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:33:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rossi: That stone is not damaged. It still keeps its rectangular shape. You can see on its other side that the stone laying on top of it is also lower, because that stone (with the shims) is lower. It's almost like someone made a wrong size stone, put it there and just added shims to compensate for the error. Which is a 180 degrees practice from the folks who were painstakingly matching the stones we see in the other walls. It's not that the original stone (with the right dimensions) was crushed and replaced. If you look at the stone on its right. It has the same lower height. So, someone really screwed up on that one. 
It might be some sort of damage that occured on the far right outside of what we are seeing in the pic. Without pics from all angles or being there to walk around and see everything I'm just guessing. Could be any number of things I suppose. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:36:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fidel_Cashflow:
What's more likely? A bunch of people working under slave labor conditions spent an obscene amount of time shaping and stacking rocks with primitive tools. or Aliens with the technology for interstellar travel came down from the sky to build stone forts on mountain top because reasons. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:38:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: I can't do better than 500 millionths. The trick to it is when to switch to the next set in rotation - "When the top surface switches from convex to concave". They mesh prior to that and appear to have full fit. No matter what, I end up with 2 concave and 1 convex, though they're nearly as flat as glass, they aren't. It's within the thickness of water, they'll vacuum together, but prussian blue doesn't print evenly across the surfaces, it's always more concentrated dots in center or periphery. I don't have test equipment that can measure smaller than 500 millionths of an inch, but I know they aren't perfectly flat. I'm seriously wondering how they defined flat without sphereometers and differential indicators. Maybe accounts for why they couldn't get more than 0.01" accuracy until they built better stuff to make better plates. I do find it fascinating, and am bent on making at least ONE of the plates print fully and evenly on glass with a layer of blue approximately 200 milionths of an inch thick (dykem). Sharpie is 20 millionths, and it won't print in some spots. That's the amazing technical level I'm at right now. With the amount of time I have into these plates (thanks for the tip!), even usign diamond and silicon carbide and a reference set of glass and ceramic flats, I can't get it correct, it's true that it will NEVER be _flat_, temp changes will make it convex or concave, it's just how it is, that's why the process starts with it mounted on the dynamically static Bessel points (tripod points), then lapped flat, any change and it won't be. Change humidity, temp, and it won't be, not by much, but it'll be one or the other, or in worse case, both. However, I'm seeing aprocryphal data that shows into the 100 millionths of an inch without instruments, and I'm not getting that result.
All the more, this thread is mind blowing, as I've ground away about 1 cubic foot of granite & quartzite (harder) without power tools in the past month or so, I failed in making a miniature diamond rope saw with 550 cord, no matter the tension, it won't cut straight. I suppose trying to redo this stuff from scratch takes a lot more money, and it isn't as easy as the guys making videos saying "Yeah, just take a cable with abrasive, move it fast and push down". |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 8:39:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RIO-lover:
Obviously carbon dating will only tell the age of the stone not when it was cut and stacked. But if they found some plant leaf sandwiched between 2 stones they could tell the age of that plant and know when the stones were set. Maybe also digging in the backfill of a wall they could find some organic material to date and see when it was backfilled. Just throwing out ideas. 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:01:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
That's not it, it's how that level was achieved, then apparently lost for a thousand or two years before it was figured out again. Information and practices generally don't vanish that quickly and completely, well, unless Islam comes in and destroys all monuments and knowledge, but this is pre-Islam. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Federov: "Hey shit for life slave, just bang this rock on another until you fit it to this other one until you got it to the right precise measurement and you'll get a potato" Okay. Sure. That means that you can open a Ferrari factory in downtown Baltimore and end up with the best made car anywhere in the world. This what people on Ar15.com actually believe. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:15:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100:
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100:
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools. But I don't see any evidence of exactly when, how, and why. Or answers to some fairly big and obvious questions that would immediately jump out at any rational person who discovered these structures.
Simply stating that it wouldn't have been impossible doesn't really address the spirit of this thread. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:18:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: headstoner]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Loremsk:
Time for another autistic tangent! Last video was about making something be flat. Now let's make something perfectly round, and cnclusively answer a fundamental aspect of the universe in the process. Today's rock is a single perfect crystal of Silicon-28. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMByI4s-D-Y   Edit: I have never attempted to make any this size due to cost vs profit and cemetery regulations and rules. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:24:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Actually there are people who have said just that, including the OP. There have been numerous “how” explanations. “When” isn’t as much mystery as some would lead you to believe either. “Why?” Well, all over the world, empires have built shit. That the folks in the Americas, as primitive as they were, managed to do it too isn’t all that remarkable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Jacko100:
I don't think anyone is disputing that it would have been possible for ancient civilizations to build them without modern technology or tools. But I don't see any evidence of exactly when, how, and why. Or answers to some fairly big and obvious questions that would immediately jump out at any rational person who discovered these structures.
Simply stating that it wouldn't have been impossible doesn't really address the spirit of this thread.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:28:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass: Explanations are not demonstrations. Make me a nice pillowed polygonal wall about 10 feet high with rock and string and sand out of 400-1000 pound stones. I will make you one, but it'll cost ya. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:33:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
You left out diamonds, Peru has lots of diamonds. I will make you one, but it'll cost ya. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By waterglass: Explanations are not demonstrations. Make me a nice pillowed polygonal wall about 10 feet high with rock and string and sand out of 400-1000 pound stones. I will make you one, but it'll cost ya. 
The moving would be the easy part. peru also has Iron and everything else you need to do it more or less the same way you would in your shop. The Inca didn't know how to use them. My point is someone did and the inca wiped them out like they did the cloud people, or they were wiped out and were the ancestors of the inca. People were in that area for 20K years or more. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 9:34:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner: I watched that one a few years ago, thats pretty cool. Large pilished granite "marbles" or spheres are fun to make, I wonder what the future will say about our junk. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/464920/Belmar_granite_6_ft_1_2-815323.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/464920/07a15762b0f263e96efea4cfefa09d8b_2-815324.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/464920/Screenshot_2019-01-20-20-07-22_2-815326.png Edit: I have never attempted to make any this size due to cost vs profit and cemetery regulations and rules. 
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:21:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass: We'd need to quarry and move it 10-50 miles with string at 10k feet above sea level first. then cut it.
The moving would be the easy part. peru also has Iron and everything else you need to do it more or less the same way you would in your shop. The Inca didn't know how to use them. My point is someone did and the inca wiped them out like they did the cloud people, or they were wiped out and were the ancestors of the inca. People were in that area for 20K years or more.  I'm sure whoever built these structures knew a lot more than we commonly give credit for, seeing some of the pics in this thread leaves me with no doubt about that. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:24:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jacko100: The stone spheres of Costa Rica are a collection of some three hundred polished stone orbs, the first of which were discovered in the Diquis Delta of Costa Rica during the 1930s. The spheres range in size from a few centimeters to over two meters in diameter, and weigh up to 16 tons. http://www.ticotimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/160401Finca6Featured.jpg |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
It's really going to cost ya if you have to fly me around to find a 10k foot altitude quarry and wait until I acclimate, you'll save a ton and maybe get your walls a little closer to home if we skip that step and start with locally quarried stones. I'm sure whoever built these structures knew a lot more than we commonly give credit for, seeing some of the pics in this thread leaves me with no doubt about that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By waterglass: We'd need to quarry and move it 10-50 miles with string at 10k feet above sea level first. then cut it.
The moving would be the easy part. peru also has Iron and everything else you need to do it more or less the same way you would in your shop. The Inca didn't know how to use them. My point is someone did and the inca wiped them out like they did the cloud people, or they were wiped out and were the ancestors of the inca. People were in that area for 20K years or more. I'm sure whoever built these structures knew a lot more than we commonly give credit for, seeing some of the pics in this thread leaves me with no doubt about that. Im sure if you had the people to direct and the tools you need you could make a better wall. you have the math and knowledge to do so. If I had the money to spend I'd get me a nice pillowed polygonal granite house made for me. It would be fucking awesome to have a house that could stand 10,000 years. IMO you stone cutters should be put to work building houses using these old methods instead of cutting monuments and counter tops. You fellows could make houses that would outlast human civilization. Besides maybe radioactive isotopes made by men, nothing has a better chance of outlasting us all. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:11:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass: Ohh yeah, there is some major mysteries about this stuff Im sure if you had the people to direct and the tools you need you could make a better wall. you have the math and knowledge to do so. If I had the money to spend I'd get me a nice pillowed polygonal granite house made for me. It would be fucking awesome to have a house that could stand 10,000 years. IMO you stone cutters should be put to work building houses using these old methods instead of cutting monuments and counter tops. You fellows could make houses that would outlast human civilization. Besides maybe radioactive isotopes made by men, nothing has a better chance of outlasting us all. I have a few pics of monuments I have done that shows shapes being "broken" into the stone, others that have been cut. I'm trying to figure out how to draw over the names that are visible. Another one I just looked at shows what could become irregular cuts and how they will fit together very tight. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:16:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
You left out diamonds, Peru has lots of diamonds. I will make you one, but it'll cost ya. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By waterglass: Explanations are not demonstrations. Make me a nice pillowed polygonal wall about 10 feet high with rock and string and sand out of 400-1000 pound stones. I will make you one, but it'll cost ya. |
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Posted: 1/20/2019 11:27:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
It was mentioned earlier, im going to try and find the time this summer to make a few stones out of blocks or boulders in ways those walls were built, I hope this thread is still open so I can post some pics. I will use only the tools I know they had with minor variations ( I'm not going to learn how to fashion rope out of what ever the hell they had in Peru). I have a few pics of monuments I have done that shows shapes being "broken" into the stone, others that have been cut. I'm trying to figure out how to draw over the names that are visible. Another one I just looked at shows what could become irregular cuts and how they will fit together very tight. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By headstoner:
Originally Posted By waterglass: Ohh yeah, there is some major mysteries about this stuff Im sure if you had the people to direct and the tools you need you could make a better wall. you have the math and knowledge to do so. If I had the money to spend I'd get me a nice pillowed polygonal granite house made for me. It would be fucking awesome to have a house that could stand 10,000 years. IMO you stone cutters should be put to work building houses using these old methods instead of cutting monuments and counter tops. You fellows could make houses that would outlast human civilization. Besides maybe radioactive isotopes made by men, nothing has a better chance of outlasting us all. I have a few pics of monuments I have done that shows shapes being "broken" into the stone, others that have been cut. I'm trying to figure out how to draw over the names that are visible. Another one I just looked at shows what could become irregular cuts and how they will fit together very tight. I'll put it in my favorites and keep it alive, I am sure others will too. I'm not sure if the stones like you see in the walls of Cusco were quarried or cut/"broken" from cobbles they found already broken from rock faces by the elements. It seems the walls serve a pragmatic purpose, being earth quake resistant. That is also probably why they used andesite as opposed to sandstone or limestone. I'll also post up interesting stuff as I come across it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 12:12:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAD762: Just send a bid to Trump. Kill two birds with one stone.
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