I didn't you were with the rest of the world on guns, my point was just because the rest of the world is doing it doesn't mean it is the proper path.

Most people really don't believe in freedom, America was supposed to be something better and different.

As far as Federal standards for education, they have no constitutional authority for it.

What’s this about Candida?

Ours is worse because it contains a shitload of private, government-protected monopolies, oligarchies, and fiefdoms that all lobby to keep sucking the system dry. It's a "capitalist" system with a profit motive but a completely opaque and/or broken pricing system, which when combined with even more socialist government money and edicts, produces a complete clusterfuck of bloat that far worse than any of the single payer systems... Indeed it's the worst on Earth.

@Neotopiaman





Source

Includes taxes but not private healthcare expenditures, which is a lot for the USA, and almost nothing everywhere else.

...Now subtract the private portion of healthcare and see how that looks.

I agree.

As an ER nurse, HELL NO!

Looks like we're still doing better. Try it yourself.

Wow, some of the replies in this beauty.

Well Mr Canadian, I've spent my entire fucking life here as an American.
I know a few people, Americans, who have actually been denied treatment and died, due to big money denying them treatment for various reasons.
I also know a few Americans who can't afford healthcare. What the fuck is going to happen to them if they need a doctor's visit?
How many thousands of Americans die every year, wives, husband's and children, because they can't afford it, or are denied by big money?!

Our system benefits the wealthy, nothing more.

Now delete 15-20 thousand from that for our high deductible health plan that covers prettyuch nothing for our family every year and you'll see we are keeping about as much money as most of the socialized healthcare countries because our system is just as fucked and possibly more fucked because the middle class is footing the same bill but not receiving any of the benefits those people are

Just wait til you see the decline in service offered... You can wait more than 30 days for your cancer test results right?

No, remove about $4k on average per the pink and blue chart posted earlier, and do the same for them.

I don't know the other countries well but I do know the UK system recently well. Success, that is a joke. They don't count born babies that don't leave the hospital in infant mortality. They don't give dialysis over 65. The wait time target for chemo is 78 days, ours is around 72 hours for major centers. Certain cancers aren't even treated it they are progressed, just sent with palliative. No long term care units.

People who champion socialised medicine have never had to live under its care...

The "big money" that developed all the new drugs and medical devices in the US is the only thing that allows socialized medicine to be anything more than a nurse, a bed and some leeches.

Carbs make you fat andI send my kids to private.

Make a real world choice.

A system where you get what you pay for and pay for what you get

Or

A system that takes your money at gun point and gives you what they feel they can provide, sometimes, regardless of what you have paid. Unless your really poor you pay a lot.

You are your responsibility.

The world-wide problem (regardless of system) is, it is not 'insurance' in the classic term of the word, it's more like a universal payment plan to cover all health expenses. [The analogy I would use, would be like if car insurance covered the cost of oil changes, and routine repairs like accessory belt changes. 'Insurance' would become very expensive.]

When I look at the Health care everywhere in the world from a individual perspective, there doesn't seem to be much difference to the consumer.
As a consumer, in the USA you pay your healthcare tax directly to a company rather than the government. A company then provides that care.
Other countries pay it to the government. The government provides, or outsources to private companies that care.
Under both models there are shortfalls;
The Company one is, you are more likely to get the care first, but if insurance doesn't cover you and you have a massive bill. Under the Government one, you might not get the care, if it isn't life threatening. But you don't get a bill either.

FYI; NZ runs both systems side by side.
We have a Public health system, and also a Private health system.
- The Public health system outsources a lot of work to the Private health system.
- The Private health system hires Public health system resources. (You can privately hire a surgical suite in a Public hospital)
We also have insurance that covers expenditure that might occur in either system.
Although you don't need any insurance. (It's useful to have insurance, so you can go private, pay the money and by-pass Public waiting lists, which are such a feature of 'free' systems)

And they use a an significantly disproportionate amount of resources... It's not even close. Resources suckers breaking the middle class.

I'm not gonna read this thread, but I highly encourage OP to shop around for the lowest price when he's having a medical emergency.

It is easy to call someone uneducated behind a keyboard.
You sir need a lesson in manners and the history of your support of socialism.

Socialized corn is not good.
Public schools are not good.
And socialized medicine is not good.

Socialized anything removes competition from the equation.
Competition drives the prices down in a marketplace.

Let the farmers get paid for what it costs to produce a bushel of corn.

Public schools, where to start?  The education system is broken.

There was a time that every town had a doctor.
A lot of you here weren’t born when this was normal.
They made house calls - this was happening into the mid-1970’s in my area.
You didn’t go to the doctor unless you were sick.
You only used insurance for big ticket items, not doctor’s visits.
It cost a lot to go to med school, but a doctor could make a living after med school and didn’t have to charge to cover liability insurance and frivolous law suits.
Government got into healthcare and you no longer have a free market.
Government got into health insurance and you no longer have a free market.

Can it go back, sure.
will it go back, not holding my breath.

MUH ROADS!!!!

How much cash are you given by the state every month/ year/ whatever?...

Single payer is inevitable. The commies have stacked the demographic deck and control the education system. It's only a matter of time until their long march comes to fruition. Fire up the rotors.

The quantity of this type of person is constantly growing. Read in another thread today that 3000 new "dependents" were recently counted (or something) in this country...

I think some sort of single payer is inevitable.

Fucking sucks.  

Have nationalized healthcare.  Everyone will milk the shit out of it, IE multiple doctor visits instead of just once or twice.  That is the scheme of national health care- things are basically metered out at times so come back again next week for your meds or whatever scheduled shit.

What is money these days other than zeros on a computer screen...

How about waiting another 90 to see an oncologist?

So the productive folks have to continue to foot the bill?!

Maybe some day EBT, WIC & welfare will be 'taxed' so I can feel (falsely) good about them folks paying their fair share...

That is per capita, not per household... more than one person per household.

I read some statistics policy papers once where they basically lied and termed some outpatient services as inpatient just to fudge the numbers for policy export propaganda.

Our socialized system called Medicare is where they end up and it’s mismanaged and underfunded just like those other countries public healthcare.

Also note, saying a single payer system would be better than what we have now is not equivalent to saying that a single payer system would be better than an actual capitalist system.

Our system is a mixture of cronyism and socialism that's the worst of both worlds.

Only because we let them craft this into an issue they wanted to force to begin with. Government only knows growth and the push towards the absolute.

ZERO Socialism is good.  Because some dumb bastard instituted some form or another years ago here does not justify it being acceptable.  Don't confuse public schools with socialism, not even close.  WTF is socialized corn?  Your reasoning is retarded.

Is your government notoriously disrespectful of your privacy and rights? Can your government disclaim liability for misdiagnosis, malpractice, negligence? Will your government seize assets to settle or withold tax returns to settle payment issues? Does your government limit care based on your age, productivity or diagnosis? Can it make health decisions for you based in your health status?

Cmon man those lobbyist are  enriching those big money fat cats by having them make favorable laws. Surely giving complete and total control about what companies get to service patients and what services and devices are covered to the .gov will eliminate the problem because no companies would be interested in influencing the government given its complete control over evey aspect of payment...this will certainly ensure good service and low costs.... and to add they can now socially engineer your behavior based on "health reasons" to "save costs" you know things like gun ownership.

An observation from our personal experience of pregnancy and child birth.
2 kids, first via private healthcare, and second purely on Public healthcare.
For Private we got a lot more Healthcare, than we did in Public.
However for both Public and Private the "Health Outcome" was the same. Healthy boys.

The Public system provides for a Midwife (independent contractor, we choose the midwife, government pays them directly) during pregnancy (around 8-10 visits) and at birth. Typically around 4 Ultrasound scans during the pregnancy, and the usual tests. Note the scanning and tests were outsourced to private companies. The hospital care during birth and aftercare is provided. Obstetrician on call if there are problems. You are left to the rough and tumble of the 'system', and to answer your own questions for the most part.

But you are not restricted to this, for example if you want an extra ultrasound scan, then just pay the cost of it (claim on insurance later maybe) and you can get what you want.

The Private Obstetrician we hired. (and claimed most of the cost split against our insurance policies)
We got a lot more healthcare for the money. We of course got all the Publicly  provided benefits, but also.
Provided an ultrasound every 2 weeks, and an huge array of tests. We were treated with kid gloves, and everything was explained in detail.
The Obstetrician was there at all stages of the birth, and we got personalised care.
Although he was a private doctor, the baby was born at a Public hospital, but under his direct care and supervision.

Private healthcare felt better, and had better customer service, but the results were the same.
Shrug.

Does New Zealand put a cap on stuff or prices, like here somewhat?

Japan?

Somewhat is the answer.
Not a black and white, yes/no situation.
Somethings yes, some have guidelines, some have no cap.

We are required to have national health insurance, price caps and stuff is in place.  I get a 70 percent reduction, but we pay a ridiculous amount in taxes.  I think an ambulance is 6,400 yen now, and the fucked up thing is many old//elderly thing that ambulances are taxis.

This is convoluted.

My contribution to healthcare exceeds the poverty level of a family of 4.

Mistakes will simply be buried no matter the case, cost (or lack of)

The battle was lost when people decided that healthcare (which is another person’s labor) was a right.

Compensation for that care was always going to be an issue because no one wants to work for free. So then it morphed into health insurance being a right, because not being able to pay for it and being denied the service is the same as not ever having access to it.

Universal healthcare inevitably requires a single payer system because of the size of the client pool. Which means that eventually everyone gets the medical care equivalent of a public defender. You can generally avoid needing a criminal defense attorney by avoiding doing criminal stuff. But everyone needs medical care, so you can’t absorb the cost of that “right” only exercised by a few by paying for it out of the pockets of the many like you can when funding the local public defender’s office.

^^^^

Try and change my mind that socialized healthcare or even the ACA is good.

So far I can't get insurance to okay surgery for my esophagus so I can actually swallow something other than liquid consistency food. I drink my foods fruits, veggies, beans etc, breakfast, lunch and dinner., I can not swallow any type of meat because of the texture and the high probability of it becoming impacted in my esophagus and not moving down. Even an endoscope can not push it down, it has to be removed. I hate spitting up blood because this happens.  Insurance thinks I fake this condition but yet explain how when there is an obstruction I start coughing up blood.  Fuck this healthcare system, it took me 3 ER visits for the stupid system to realize there is an actual need for care. Twice I have been on the OR table to have this done, once I had lost so much blood there was an actual chance of me dying.  Even after 13 years nothing in the system has changed

Insurance says no to covering even a portion of medications, forcing me to find alternatives, sorry Big pharmacy I don't have $370 a month for one prescription, guess I will do without it.  Can't get better if you can't afford a script, doctor says if you don't take it I have to write in your file as not cooperating. The insurance company said no more cardiologist & neurologist, so instead they send me to a clinic for drugs instead finding out the cause for my issues.

Having low blood pressure means the current healthcare system will not cover medications to raise my blood pressure. They will however cover the Doctor telling me to eat 4grams of salt a day! Yuck! Lowest I have seen so far was 81/51 with a 65bpm, average daily is 101/59 standing blood pressure with 94bpm. I am 6'4" 200lbs my weight isn't the problem.

Socialized healthcare is soooooooooo good, a 30 something can not work because he can not stand for more than a few minutes at time, getting up becomes a challenge because my BP falls while my HR climbs, working is nearly impossible. I don't want to go on SS, I don't want to be on welfare, I still have my self worth and Pride to be independent.

My policy doesn't come up for renewal until April 2019, I have to wait until then to change, so while I wait I try everything to get my life back to where it was. Nothing is working.  I dont expect to be alive in another 30 years, hell the hospital when I was born gave me less than 1 hour, know how many 23 week premature births make it 20-35%.

What we need is tort reform, stop stupid lawsuits, reduce the cost of care, get the Gov out of the healthcare system.

I hate Socialists and Communists, both can go off themselves. If anyone wants either of those you are no friend of the country that I and many like me reside in.

Pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers and conglomerate health care providers are all in the business together. Make a problem, claim you have a cure, go see doctor.

Get the government out of healthcare is always good, and just let the market work, easier said than done though.  No more lobbyists too.  Its a shitstorm.

You can always shop around in Asian countries provided you have travelers insurance and health insurance covered by that at least in my case but it would be the opposite IE when I go to the States at some point.

Healthcare and insurance costs honestly weren't that bad before Obamacare. Repeal that shit.

Lots of people pointed out that the real point of Obamacare was to cripple the ability of the private sector to provide healthcare in order to steer public opinion in favor of a nationalized healthcare program.

Looks like we still come out on top of most.