User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:06:11 PM EDT
[#1]
I opted out
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:07:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
At this point I have pretty much lost any faith that we will ever restore free market healthcare. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:07:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education. Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit. Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:11:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Derp. Most people championing how awesome our fucked up crony-capitalist healthcare system are the ones not paying for it. Many middle class families now pay over half of their income in taxes and healthcare, we actually get to keep less of our money than the socialist systems arfcom is so fond of hating on! We already pay more public money per capita than every country on Earth except Norway! 
Our medical system is a complete shitshow. It's the worst of both worlds. We've socialized a whole bloated mess of private cronies with their hands all in the cookie jar. At this point a single payer system would be better than what we have for the majority of people. It pains me to say it, but it's true. It wouldn't be better than a true private system, but at this point such a system seem like a fantasy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:12:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I opted out I get that calculation - I lived without health insurance for much of my adult life and never really had any major health issues to pay for. I did get injured at work but workers comp covered that one. But the risk is huge. Any major injury or illness could run well into the 5- or even 6-figure range and unless you're one of those ARFcommers with a Ferrari and a supermodel your risk is extremely high. Low degree of likelihood, but a tremendous degree of financial liability. And if you did end up declaring bankruptcy, that just makes it worse for everyone else that pays. The system is broken. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:14:53 PM EDT
[#6]
It’d speed up the impending collapse so have it it I suppose. The US is getting socialized medicine, the writing is on the wall. And it’s going to be bad. Real bad. But free Motrin for all!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:14:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Socialism is great,till you run out of other peoples money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:16:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education. Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit. Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:17:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you work for the government? Or are you in on the scam? Most people championing how awesome our fucked up crony-capitalist healthcare system are the ones not paying for it. Many middle class families now pay over half of their income in taxes and healthcare, we actually get to keep less of our money than the socialist systems arfcom is so fond of hating on! We already pay more public money per capita than every country on Earth except Norway! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg/600px-OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg.png Our medical system is a complete shitshow. It's the worst of both worlds. We've socialized a whole bloated mess of private cronies with their hands all in the cookie jar. At this point a single payer system would be better than what we have for the majority of people. It pains me to say it, but it's true. It wouldn't be better than a true private system, but at this point such a system seem like a fantasy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:19:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it’s been incrementally structured to push single payer for the last 45 years.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:21:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name 1 innovative surgical procedure in the last 20 years that came out of a country that has socialized medicine. There is a reason our life expectancy is over 78 years now and it damn sure isn’t because of Canada. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery. You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad. Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool. Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:22:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
At this point I have pretty much lost any faith that we will ever restore free market healthcare. Over many decades we have built a fascist controlled healthcare system that costs just as much as any socialized system. Seems to me the only difference is the burden of our systems lies heavily on the middle class. We pay insane premiums or huge medical bills to cover all the lower class. Atthis point I'm having a hard time not supporting a socialized system like Canada that would require the bottom half of the country to actually pay an income tax. I don't think we will ever see a free market in healthcare again. you think the bottom half will have to pay an income tax.. do you also think the upper crust will have to use the same system? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:23:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, our life expectancy is 82 and lots of innovative medicine continues to come out of Canada |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:23:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of the people I meet who champion how awesome the US healthcare system is have an awesome grandfathered plan, work for the government, or themselves have their hand in the cookie jar. They haven't had the pleasure of purchasing a plan that costs 25% of your income and basically covers nothing, even though you're a very healthy non-smoker. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:26:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Awesome US healthcare system growing at a faster rate then just about anywhere else on Earth. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:30:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol. you think the bottom half will have to pay an income tax.. do you also think the upper crust will have to use the same system? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:34:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll keep on derpin' all the derp long day on this one. Fuck it. Show me one sensible alternative that doesn't end in financial ruin for 80% of the US for any kind of major medical event and maybe I'll change my tune. Until then, I'll happily derp de derp de derp derp because the alternative is just not acceptable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education. Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit. Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all. Much better than a Canadian style system that will fail you when you actually need care. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:34:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At this point I have pretty much lost any faith that we will ever restore free market healthcare. Over many decades we have built a fascist controlled healthcare system that costs just as much as any socialized system. Seems to me the only difference is the burden of our systems lies heavily on the middle class. We pay insane premiums or huge medical bills to cover all the lower class. Atthis point I'm having a hard time not supporting a socialized system like Canada that would require the bottom half of the country to actually pay an income tax. I don't think we will ever see a free market in healthcare again. 
Never, ever, ever going to happen. Ever. You know why? Cause the bottom half of this country are fucking broke asses and/or leeches already. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:36:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery. You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad. Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool. Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense. Nothing!! Because they cannot afford to defend themselves, yet alone attack a terror network on the other side of the world. The same can be said about every country socialized Healthcare. Their budgets are consumed by HC to the point that they cannot afford to defend themselves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:39:19 PM EDT
[#20]
If you somehow think the cost of health care is going to go down with more government control, obviously the public education system has failed you.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:40:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then go to the VA for our fine example of socialized medicine and one women in Canada proves adequate health care. I'm not so far from the Mayo Clinic, and if all the other shit out there was OK, why does everyone with money and a brain go there. Even the middle eastern leaders flock here for non socialized medicine. And find me a place in our system that supports anything socialized actually functions. Social Security, broke, Medicare broke this country is broke  . SIL went in for a Central Line insertion for cancer chemo (special experimental treatment cleared by the FDA and only given at the Mayo Clinic) and 'boom' gets MRSA from just the Cath being put in. Happened about 3 weeks ago. The Doctor doing the cancer treatment told her the current infection rate AFTER she came down with the infection.
Oh, and just to add ... The VA Medical Care Sucks and Socialized Medicine Sucks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:42:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. My employer is paying some ridiculous amount, on top of which I have thousands in deductibles and an out-of-pocket max that is well over $10K. If I were to exceed my out-of-pocket max by exactly $1, the premiums + out-of-pocket would exceed 50% of the bill. If the Republicans think they can just win future elections by jerking off big pharma/AMA/insurance cos and talk about "The greatest healthcare system in the world" that for many families is now a financial Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads... Well, be prepared for "interesting" times.... Republicans had chances for years to offer free market reforms to fix it, but the lobby money from fatter and fatter special interests kept them from doing otherwise. They only offered petty shit that nibbles around the edges of the problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:47:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Canada were repeatedly attacked by terrorists, like 9-11, what could they do about it? Nothing!! Because they cannot afford to defend themselves, yet alone attack a terror network on the other side of the world. The same can be said about every country socialized Healthcare. Their budgets are consumed by HC to the point that they cannot afford to defend themselves.
Canada spends $3,200 per capita for healthcare in tax dollars, the US spend $4,500, almost more than the total Canadian public+private number! Again: The United States already spends more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than every country on Earth except Norway. Our healthcare system is a complete shitshow! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:48:37 PM EDT
[#24]
You're falling for Obamacare hook, line and sinker. This mentality was it's purpose.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:50:51 PM EDT
[#25]
True fact: everyone in a country with socialized medicine is dead because of it! It just doesn't work*.
* with the possible exception of: Austria Belgium Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Ireland Italy Netherlands Norway Portugal Spain Sweden All the UK Canada... There may be a few more. But everyone in those countries is dead because of it! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 8:52:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would a 50 YO mother of 3 making $15,000 per year get HC for a daughter with some severe problem that might cost $150,000 to deal with? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:00:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:y
When did we ever have free market health care? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:05:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True fact: everyone in a country with socialized medicine is dead because of it! It just doesn't work*. * with the possible exception of: Austria Belgium Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Ireland Italy Netherlands Norway Portugal Spain Sweden All the UK Canada... There may be a few more. But everyone in those countries is dead because of it! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:07:17 PM EDT
[#29]
I don’t think I’ve ever seem a thread here where the Bernie-bots just straight up admitted it. Holy fuck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:14:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery. You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad. Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool. Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense. Aviator |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:16:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don’t think I’ve ever seem a thread here where the Bernie-bots just straight up admitted it. Holy fuck. Even fuckin arfcom dude. I've worked for the .gov. They actually ENDEAVOR for INEFFICIENCY. Yeah, let's give them total control of healthcare. Fuck. That. Shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#32]
"Tax-funded expenditures accounted for 64.3 percent of U.S. health spending – about $1.9 trillion – in 2013, according to new data published today [Thursday, Jan. 21] in the American Journal of Public Health. The Affordable Care Act will push that figure even higher by 2024, when government’s share of U.S. health spending is expected to rise to 67.3 percent.
At $5,960 per capita, government spending on health care costs in the U.S. was the highest of any nation in 2013, including countries with universal health programs such as Canada, Sweden and the United Kingdom. (Estimated total U.S. health spending for 2013 was $9,267 per capita, with government’s share being $5,960.) Indeed, government health spending in the United States exceeded total health spending (government plus private) in every other country except Switzerland." 64.3% of the country already has it. Its just us suckers getting nothing for our money left. This was 2013 as well so I imagine it is higher now. Note that second paragraph, government expenditures alone are already higher per capita than every 'socialized' healthcare company in the world. The problem isn't that we don't have socialized healthcare or that we do. It is that we are paying for socialized healthcare and getting nothing in return. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:22:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Here's how you do free-market healthcare, in case you were wondering.
Surgery Center of Oklahoma https://surgerycenterok.com/ Free market-loving, price-displaying, state-of-the-art, AAAHC accredited, doctor owned, multi-specialty surgical facility in central OK. Oklahoma Doctors vs. Obamacare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPdkhMVdMQ |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:25:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bottom folks who receive tax refunds when they haven’t paid any taxes? Those folks?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy. I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:28:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery. You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad. Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool. Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense. It is socialized health care. Many times i have seen people and family go to the doctor many times only to end up dead. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:29:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you chose to risk bankruptcy instead of paying for health insurance? I get that calculation - I lived without health insurance for much of my adult life and never really had any major health issues to pay for. I did get injured at work but workers comp covered that one. But the risk is huge. Any major injury or illness could run well into the 5- or even 6-figure range and unless you're one of those ARFcommers with a Ferrari and a supermodel your risk is extremely high. Low degree of likelihood, but a tremendous degree of financial liability. And if you did end up declaring bankruptcy, that just makes it worse for everyone else that pays. The system is broken. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:31:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol. you think the bottom half will have to pay an income tax.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:31:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get that calculation - I lived without health insurance for much of my adult life and never really had any major health issues to pay for. I did get injured at work but workers comp covered that one. But the risk is huge. Any major injury or illness could run well into the 5- or even 6-figure range and unless you're one of those ARFcommers with a Ferrari and a supermodel your risk is extremely high. Low degree of likelihood, but a tremendous degree of financial liability. And if you did end up declaring bankruptcy, that just makes it worse for everyone else that pays. The system is broken. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:34:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retarded, you are. So please detail your experiences thatmake you the expert here? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:38:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, it's never coming back. And now we have the absolute worst of both systems. I don't favor socialized medicine, but what we have right now is possibly worse. We don't have a free market system, we have a system that punishes the middle class and makes them foot the bill for the poor and the illegals, all while they can barely afford it themselves. Some people can't afford it at all. We have a system that can't tell you what something costs if you ask, a system that charges you more if you're uninsured and actually paying for it, but that same system will give unlimited free care ( at that same guy's expense ) to illegals, poor, and criminals. I hear about long wait times in socialist countries, some people here would rather have that than have the cost for procedures so high they will never get them. I favor the free market. But we haven't had that in a long time and it isn't coming back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:39:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're falling for the trap. They want you to be so beaten down by the socialism that you think the only way out is more of it. What they dont want you to realize is that once they take it all the way over, you'll be paying even more, just to .Gov in the form of taxes instead of your doctor or insurance. The ones not paying now will still be not paying then. They want to make it so bad now, socialized healthcare is forced on us. That was the point of Obamacare I think, the ruin the system by design. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:40:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education. Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit. Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all. I do agree with you on prisons. I don't think the federal government has any business in schools either. Leave it to the state or local government to figure out what works for them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:42:14 PM EDT
[#43]
FPDNNI
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:42:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Here is a solution - for those who are either unemployed or employed in a shitty job with no private health insurance, no frills, shitty, severely rationed health care provided primarily by PAs and NPs fresh our of college through government clinics. Sure it will cost tax payers some money, but at least our private for profit hospitals won't be inundated by the uninsured. Those of us fortunate enough to have insurance through our employers, we get top quality care from actual doctors and procedures scans done in a timely manner at private hospitals. A two tiered system. One for those who have and one for those who have not. Certainly a good motivation to get a good job!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:43:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Canada were repeatedly attacked by terrorists, like 9-11, what could they do about it? Nothing!! Because they cannot afford to defend themselves, yet alone attack a terror network on the other side of the world. The same can be said about every country socialized Healthcare. Their budgets are consumed by HC to the point that they cannot afford to defend themselves. Then they bitch at us for not having a healthcare system. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:43:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I don't favor socialized medicine, but what we have right now is possibly worse. We don't have a free market system, we have a system that punishes the middle class and makes them foot the bill for the poor and the illegals, all while they can barely afford it themselves. Some people can't afford it at all. We have a system that can't tell you what something costs if you ask, a system that charges you more if you're uninsured and actually paying for it, but that same system will give unlimited free care ( at that same guy's expense ) to illegals, poor, and criminals. I hear about long wait times in socialist countries, some people here would rather have that than have the cost for procedures so high they will never get them. I favor the free market. But we haven't had that in a long time and it isn't coming back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:45:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a solution - for those who are either unemployed or employed in a shitty job with no private health insurance, no frills, shitty, severely rationed health care provided primarily by PAs and NPs fresh our of college through government clinics. Sure it will cost tax payers some money, but at least our private for profit hospitals won't be inundated by the uninsured. Those of us fortunate enough to have insurance through our employers, we get top quality care from actual doctors and procedures scans done in a timely manner at private hospitals. A two tiered system. One for those who have and one for those who have not. Certainly a good motivation to get a good job! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:47:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rest of the world bans guns too, doesn't make it right. I do agree with you on prisons. I don't think the federal government has any business in schools either. Leave it to the state or local government to figure out what works for them. I don't mind some federal standards for education but they should be the kind of thing that ensures all HS grads are suited for military and/or civil service in any state. Beyond that, education should be entirely a state/county/district level endeavor. There is certainly no need for a federal Dept. of Education, SWAT teams an all. Send all of those people home and close the doors. One thing not mentioned in this thread so far is the impact employer provided health insurance has one entrepreneurship. How many people with great ideas decline to pursue those ideas because they can't risk going without health insurance and can't afford it without an employer? I imagine we are missing out on a lot of potential in this respect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 9:48:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/18/2018 10:07:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did we ever have free market health care? The AMA objected to involvement of a third party. Healthcare price inflation began with 1) employer paid insurance 2) Medicare/Medicaid |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
