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Posted: 12/7/2003 12:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2003 12:28:26 AM EDT by rasanders22]
I am currently debating gong back into the Marines as an Officer. I finish school in October and I hate my current job ( I work for one of the major 2 computer micro-processor companies.) I was already in the Marines as a Electronic/mechanical calibrator which I always said is a civilians job in a Marine uniform. If I go back in I want to do a real Marine job like infantry or anything combat related. Even though I hate my current job it has great benefits not to mention I work less than half a year (I only work 7 out of 14 days and I get 3 weeks of vacation and 2 weeks of personal time a year.) After talking to the recruiter, 2 things worry me. 1) Is the running. I am not a good fast runner. I can go run a 10k no problem. However my best 3 mile PFT time was only 22 minutes. He said that if I go their with that run speed I will be in the back of the pack. 2) Is the amount of time I would spend away from my family. He said basically 6 months out of every 2 years would be spent on ship. I'm not married now and I dont have any kids but I do plan on getting married next year. What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 12:35:14 AM EDT
I think given the current situation, you'll be spending even more time away from home. Ross
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 12:35:54 AM EDT
Somebody's got to be at the back of the pack. They're going to run the hell out of you, and if you've got the stamina you're not going to do anything but improve your time. The family thing is a much harder issue. The thing might not be so much how YOU feel about spending time away as how your future wife feels about it. And about giving up most any plans for her own career to your PCSing every couple of years.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 12:41:40 AM EDT
And about giving up most any plans for her own career to your PCSing every couple of years.
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She has no real career except a small amount of office clerical work. She cant seem to find a job anywhere. However I told her that if I went back in the Marines then she would be home taking care of the kids. See money isn't an issue. I would be making the same amount I am now except I would have no mortgage payment. I would actually make more money in the military.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 1:09:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rasanders22: What do you guys think?
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I think that if you've already been in the Marines, you should know his '22min back of pack' is pure bullshit. PFT 18mins = 100pts, 28min+ = Fail. Being in the middle or 40percentile of the run-PFT in OCS doesn't mean squat. As for time at sea - for the next 4-6 years, it shouldn't be an issue, unless you are prone / likely to meet and impregnate someone very soon, or in quick order. Just being Active Duty, Deployed, At Sea is going to hamper your dating and courtship rituals. On top of all that, with Iraq and a few other countries who will be getting their asses kicked, you are going to be deployed for extended periods overseas, anyway. Far more than 6mos on fleet rotations. In short, I think you need to think things through some more, because so far your stated concerns don't jibe well with the realities.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 4:39:27 AM EDT
OCS is almost all about PT. A 22 minute run time is at the back of the pack. Which in itself doesn't mean you cannot make it, but you will be under the spot light, so you will have to prove you can lead and do the rest of the job. Expect to spend half of your FMF time deployed. My last FMF tour in 24 months I was deployed 13 months, and that was as a senior company grade officer. Lt can expect the same, we are deploying at the cyclic rate some units are only getting 3-4 months at home prior to going again. However if you are a combat arms officer you will have to do B billet every 2-3 years for 2-3 years, you will not have the same op tempo when you are on your B Billet.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:36:09 AM EDT
STLRN is correct. OCS is all about PT. And if you remember your time in, all the officers can run. 22mins is slow. You will be known as the weak guy. It will take that much more work to get respect. But I figure being a mustang would help alittle. And about the deploying, I don't know if you've been watching the news but everyone is deploying. Given I'm in a grunt unit but everyone I know is out or going out. Looks like year long deployments too.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 2:27:05 PM EDT
I could be wrong but it souds as if you were never in My CORPS, if you were you would know Marine officers don't run any better or faster than enlisted Marines. I was a grunt Marine and I am pretty good at spotting fakes. So prove me wrong and I'll eat my shower shoes.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 2:37:58 PM EDT
Oh yeah one more thing, that whole mustang bit only goes so far with the troops. It may give you the short term benifit of the doubt but that won't last if your leading from the rear. Don't consider this now because your feeling guilty about not being an 03, if you really are prior USMC.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 2:52:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By E-3-F: I could be wrong but it souds as if you were never in My CORPS, if you were you would know Marine officers don't run any better or faster than enlisted Marines. I was a grunt Marine and I am pretty good at spotting fakes. So prove me wrong and I'll eat my shower shoes.
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Are you kidding? I have going on 15 years in the Marine Corps, I have served with or attached units from 2nd Tanks, 2nd LAR, 2nd, 6th, 10th, 11th, and 12th Marines. I would get laughed off the quarter deck if I said something like that. The simple fact is that there are only like a couple of places that you will find enlisted Marines that generally perform better at PT than the average Marine Officer. And those are the recon battalions and ANGLICOs. You notice I said average because even at those places the standards that would get enlisted Marines or sailors in would disqualify Lts and Capts because Officers are expect to do better at PT so they could lead from the front. If your not in as good if not better shape you cannot lead from the front and that is the whole mindset for OCS and why the PT there is several times harder than boot. OCS is considered the hardest thing physically outside of Spec Ops and there is a reason for that, it's physically tough. Simply that those who cannot PT are selected against.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:06:00 PM EDT
My best run time ever was in OCS. The PT in Quantico is the toughest I've ever experienced in any military setting.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:06:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By E-3-F: I could be wrong but it souds as if you were never in My CORPS, if you were you would know Marine officers don't run any better or faster than enlisted Marines. I was a grunt Marine and I am pretty good at spotting fakes. So prove me wrong and I'll eat my shower shoes.
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Wait, lemme get a teeny bottle of tabasco from my MRE pile to go woth your fungus laden shower shoes.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:10:54 PM EDT
Best run times in every Battalion in which I've served... ...Lieutenants. Without exception.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 6:32:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By E-3-F: I could be wrong but it souds as if you were never in My CORPS, if you were you would know Marine officers don't run any better or faster than enlisted Marines. I was a grunt Marine and I am pretty good at spotting fakes. So prove me wrong and I'll eat my shower shoes.
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Well I dont know how exatcly I could prove to you I was in the Marines since I odnt havde any pictures online so i guess I will describe what my 5 years in. Shipped to boot camp aug 25, 1996 to MCRD San Diego. General Krulak was Comandant of the MC. When I was going through boot camp we could kip during pull ups and the max score in situps was recieved for doing 80 of them in under 2 minutes. I graduated Nov. 15 1996 and they gave us 14 days off after boot camp for Thanksgiving. I went back down to Camp Pendlton for MCT for 1 month ( we were in a weird transitional phase.) After thast I got PTAD orders to my recruitoing station for 2 months (that was nice) and got to walk around in dress deltas in the malls picking up on girls. After that I went to KeeslerAFB for my electronics school. That was in Feb. of 1997. Dec. of 1997 I graduated their and got orders to 1st Maint. BN on camp pendleton. Although 1st Maint. Bn iHQ is located in the 43 area of Camp Pendleton (CP) My company, ELMACO, was located in the 22 area right accross the street from the airfield. When I got their I got stuck on 22 Area Guard and spend the fun El Nino season patroling the whare houses in waist deep water. After that I spent 3 1/2 years at ELmaco then discharged on Aug 24, 2001. However I did get to take 30 days of terminal leave and left July 24. I was honorably discharged as a SGT. My metels and awards include 1 good conduct metel and 1 Meretorious Unit Commendation (MUC) which I got for recruiters assistance. Ok. I hope thats enough for you. I would like to see a picture of you eating your shower shoe.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:48:59 AM EDT
Sorry , I have no way to post any pics. I called you out and your response sounded gtg. I am eating the shower shoe now but I've rapped it in bacon. I'm not saying OCS is'nt a PTathon but after going to the fleet an officer can get soft just like an enlisted Marine can. If they do get soft they usually get reassigned.STLRN you seem to be referring more about entrance standards and early officer training versus FMF.How many times did your unit go pt without your LT.? For me it was often. We had O-1 and O-2's sucking it up on runs and humps often. You make it sound as if an Officer candidate won't complete OCS without 300 pft. Strange how we always did our PFT separatly from officers and we never get the Officers results.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:56:25 AM EDT
rasanders, no hard feelings I hope. Just heard to many posers lately. If you do get accepted I wish you luck. Semper Fi. The shower shoe was kinda tasty except for the strap part.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:20:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By E-3-F: I'm not saying OCS is'nt a PTathon but after going to the fleet an officer can get soft just like an enlisted Marine can. If they do get soft they usually get reassigned.STLRN you seem to be referring more about entrance standards and early officer training versus FMF.How many times did your unit go pt without your LT.? For me it was often. We had O-1 and O-2's sucking it up on runs and humps often... ...Strange how we always did our PFT separatly from officers and we never get the Officers results.
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Who were you with? I've never heard it done that way. Must of been a real crappy Bn/Bn Cmdr.
You make it sound as if an Officer candidate won't complete OCS without 300 pft.
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No. I graduated first in my Plt, and I didn't break 20 min on the run portion of the PFT. I did break that time at OCS, when running as unit during PT (refused to drop). Two philosophies for OCS/Boot Camp: Blend in and get through it. OR... Stand out as a leader.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:43:27 AM EDT
Depended on the unit, in my Battery during the week we normally did, Sec/TM leaders PT on Mondays, Plt Sgts PT on Weds and Plt Cmdr's PT or Battery CO's PT on Fridays (my preference was to hump them), normally once or twice a month we did some type of Marine Martial Arts sustainment training. Also normally one time a month was a BN run and once a Quarter or ever six months we had a Regt CO's run, but those were really dependant on the BN or Regt CO's desires. When I was a Lt we did a BN run ever Friday. The only time I have ever seen a junior officers (senior officers are a different matter since most are worn out) fall out of a run or hump they were relieved for cause if there wasn't a physical problem. It just is a rare thing because officers know that is not officer like conduct and they can get fired for not being in shape.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:47:01 AM EDT
I don't think anyone here has said you cannot make it through OCS without a 300. That will never happen because most people cannot run a 300. But what has been said is that if your a slow runner you will under more pressure than if your a fast runner. Slow runners are in the spot light at OCS since PT is what is emphasized at OCS.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 10:30:31 AM EDT
I'm curious as to why you would want to go back in. You have already served you country in an honorable manner. It sounds like it now time to get on with your life and you may be a little bored. You really need to think about that a little bit. There are many things you can do to put excitement in your life besides going back in the service and joining a combat arms. If you actually do get in combat you may find out that it is not all it is cracked up to be by Hollywood. Some people do it in order to do their duty and others do it for the adrenalin rush. The "fun" of it will wear off real fast. Make sure you are joining for the right reasons. That is doing something you really want to do.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:00:50 AM EDT
No greater honor than to command Marines. Train them, deploy with them, accomplish your missions and come home safely. Nothing compares.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:07:01 AM EDT
I was in WPNS. CO. 3/6 0351 Our daily pt usally was sec, or plt. level.But maybe half the time with our CMDR.They would also miss out on going to the field sometimes or get driven back early for important officer type stuff. Maybe we did have crappy LTs.I had no less than three of them in 4 years. About once, sometimes twice a month company level. About every 3 or 4 mos. Bn. level run. As far as it being a crappy unit, I Don't think so but I never served with any other unit in the FMF.We did at Bn. level recieve unit citations, MEUSOC., And won super squad at least once that I remember. My Plt. constantly had to do dog and pony shows for Div. brass and pentagon visitors.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:43:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By E-3-F: I was in WPNS. CO. 3/6 0351 ....Maybe we did have crappy LTs.I had no less than three of them in 4 years. As far as it being a crappy unit, I Don't think so but I never served with any other unit in the FMF.We did at Bn. level recieve unit citations, MEUSOC., And won super squad at least once that I remember. My Plt. constantly had to do dog and pony shows for Div. brass and pentagon visitors.
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Well, if so many of your officers were hump/run drops, without being relieved, and this was a trend (as you so describe)... ...then your Bn had some serious problems. It's a shame. I had heard nothing but good things about 3/6. But if they are as bad as you say, it's a damned shame. Damned shame to hear you describe your own unit this way, too. Semper fi.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 4:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2003 4:54:48 PM EDT by PaDanby]
OCS as prior enlisted you will be under a few spotlights. First you will be expected to already know a lot of the crap and really shine in those areas (Emphasis on the shine brasso shinola etc.) Also your times will be expected to be slower than the young studs just out of college. as long as you aren't tail end charlie all the time. If you were just out of college and the last place all the time then watch out. As long as you finish somewhere between the Cross Country lettermen and the defensive linemen you'll be fine. But your Military Courtesy, bearing and Unifroms need to be up to snuff because you know the right way and they down't want to waste time on you, and they will expect you to help your buddies, discreetly of course. Plus you know the realities of deployments and time away from home. It isn't going to get any better for a few years. If your wife is up to speed, there won't be any surprises there. First 2 years I was married I was gone a cumulative total of almost 18 months. My wife and I started dating when I was in NROTC and she had a uncle who was a retired Chief and Step-Grandfather USMC E8 with 30 plus years. (1935-66) so she knew that separations were coming.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 9:18:16 AM EDT
Cincinatus, I never said our officers were run/hump drops, on occasion they would be sucking it up just like the rest of us. It did seem the LT.s in my BN. got moved around a bit much. I don't think I was painting my unit in a bad light.I can go on and on how professional and exceptional I think my unit and its officers were but that would be off topic. There are many great things to say about 3/6 then and now. Although sometimes I wish I could have served with 5th.Marines they always seem to be in the thick of it. Semper Fi.
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