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Posted: 11/25/2003 6:08:09 PM EDT
Big gun safety message at end of show saying don't use guns like we do and they should be locked up. Sounds two faced to me.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:10:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 6:26:55 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
Is AGS anti-gun??? I think it is.....[V] [url]http://w3.agsfoundation.com/[/url] They seem to use all the common gun grabber buzzwords.......maybe I'm reading it wrong. From the NRA site: [i]"Americans for Gun Safety Arlington, Virginia Phone (202) 775-0300 Founder: Andrew McKelvey Executive Director: Jonathan Cowan ww2.americansforgunsafety.com AGS was formed in June, 2000 and claims to be a centerist gun safety group. Its Executive Director, however, is the former Chief of staff to the aggressively anti-gun Andrew Cuomo at the Department of Housing and Urban Development. AGS is building a national group by affiliating with smaller state based groups and providing them with funding and an national network under which to operate."[/i]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:14:25 PM EDT
Never watched it.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:20:23 PM EDT
I will spend more time checking out the AGS sight, but at first glance it does not appear to be anti-gun. The main pic shows a man and woman firing a .22 pistol with shooting glasses and muffs. I did not find the 24 disclaimer particulary offensive. Anyone who cares about the 2nd Amendment, should support the safe, responsible use of firearms. It is the idiots who are not safe with their weapons who make it hard on everyone.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:22:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ardave: Big gun safety message at end of show saying don't use guns like we do and they should be locked up. Sounds two faced to me.
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I appreciate your sentiment, but that is a misrepresentation of what was said.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:24:01 PM EDT
I just checked it out. They want to stop private sales between individuals (which they call the gun show loop hole). Can't find any mention about the 1994 ban.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:26:04 PM EDT
Click through to their advocacy site. Then go to "who we are" and read this:
OUR TOP PRIORITIES Closing America's gun show loophole, repairing our background check system, getting tough on gun law enforcement, and promoting gun safety.
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Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:26:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 6:27:39 PM EDT by ardave]
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By ardave: Big gun safety message at end of show saying don't use guns like we do and they should be locked up. Sounds two faced to me.
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I appreciate your sentiment, but that is a misrepresentation of what was said.
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Oh NOOOO! That is exactly what they said. They said the show shows graphic use of firearms and you should use them repsonsibily (hence I can only imagine they mean "not like us"). They then proceeded to say all firearms should be locked up when not in use.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:28:38 PM EDT
Here is the EXACT text: [i][red] Hello, I'm Keifer Sutherland. In the dangerous world of "24" - there are sometimes depictions of gun use that include tragic and deadly consequences. If you own a gun, please practice responsible gun safety - and that includes keeping all firearms locked and stored away. For more information on gun safety, contact the following organization: Americans For Gun Safety Foundation [/i][/red]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:29:16 PM EDT
Nowhere on the AGS site did I find reference to guns as personal protection. By inference, they seem to only advocate gun ownership for hunting and target shooting.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:30:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 6:32:19 PM EDT by triburst1]
Originally Posted By ardave:
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By ardave: Big gun safety message at end of show saying don't use guns like we do and they should be locked up. Sounds two faced to me.
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I appreciate your sentiment, but that is a misrepresentation of what was said.
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Oh NOOOO! That is exactly what they said. They said the show shows graphic use of firearms and you should use them repsonsibily (hence I can only imagine they mean "not like us"). They then proceeded to say all firearms should be locked up when not in use.
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Do you believe that firearms not under your personal control(i.e. not the one in your holster, next to your bed at night, etc.) should be secured so that they do not fall into the wrong hands?
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:31:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: [i][red] ...and that includes keeping all firearms locked and stored away....[/i][/red]
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Including my personal concealed sidearm?? Bullshit! They are anti anti anti.......
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:35:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By ardave:
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By ardave: Big gun safety message at end of show saying don't use guns like we do and they should be locked up. Sounds two faced to me.
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I appreciate your sentiment, but that is a misrepresentation of what was said.
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Oh NOOOO! That is exactly what they said. They said the show shows graphic use of firearms and you should use them repsonsibily (hence I can only imagine they mean "not like us"). They then proceeded to say all firearms should be locked up when not in use.
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Do you believe that firearms not under your personal control(i.e. not the one in your holster, next to your bed at night, etc.) should be secured so that they do not fall into the wrong hands?
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As pointed out, they said guns should be locked up when not in use. Regardless of my personal feelings, I did NOT misrepresent what they said.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:35:54 PM EDT
"locked and stored away" would seem to be a common shorthand that the grabbers tend to use. No mention of self-defense. In other words, guns are "sporting implements" and should be stored when not in use. Could be wrong, but it sure walks like a duck...
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:37:26 PM EDT
GUYS, I have seen every episode of all 3 seasons of 24. With all the gun play shown in the last 3 years, this is the first time this sort of message has been shown. It was shown with this particular episode, BECAUSE, the guy got his head blown off playing Russian Roulette, a completely senesless and obviously unsafe use for a gun, period.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:38:08 PM EDT
The truth is out there: AGS is a slick LLL ploy. They are the enemy. Incrementalism is their game. Fuck them. [url]http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel052102.asp[/url] [url]http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0502/0502gunsafety.htm[/url] [url]http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/ags/[/url] [url]http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0,2061,567317,00.html[/url]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:40:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1: GUYS, I have seen every episode of all 3 seasons of 24. With all the gun play shown in the last 3 years, this is the first time this sort of message has been shown. It was shown with this particular episode, BECAUSE, the guy got his head blown off playing Russian Roulette, a completely senesless and obviously unsafe use for a gun, period.
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Yeah, "24" is a good show..... AGS is anti-gun. The show is supporting a group that is anti-gun. I will still watch if I'm around, but the group they are giving air time is anti-gun.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:43:14 PM EDT
Found this: [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/22/opinion/meyer/main555151.shtml[/url] [url]http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/breaking_news.asp?id=253[/url] Fuck them! [furious]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:46:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1: GUYS, I have seen every episode of all 3 seasons of 24. With all the gun play shown in the last 3 years, this is the first time this sort of message has been shown. It was shown with this particular episode, BECAUSE, the guy got his head blown off playing Russian Roulette, a completely senesless and obviously unsafe use for a gun, period.
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I also have seen every episode and enjoyed them. However if they think they have to run a public server message over one scene, maybe they should have been responsible and not shown a game of Russian Roulette. We as gun owners will pay if someone does this at home. No one will ever blame the show. They also have edited scences out of other espisodes. The plane blowing up in the first season was edited due to 9/11.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:56:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ardave: No one will ever blame the show.
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Not true. Movies, TV shows, songs, and video games take heat all the time for "influencing people to commit acts of violence." My thinking is that the warning was added by the producers after the show was taped. This type of thing is done routinely when shows depict dangerous, irresponsible acts ( MTV's "Jackass" discalimer for example.) The TV execs probably thought they were doing the right thing by showing the warning and picked an organization they thought was middle of the road, so not to piss off gun owners or mommies. AGS obviously tries to depict itself as such a group, asnd as we all know, media execs are not the most savvy experts on gun issues.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:01:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By ardave: No one will ever blame the show.
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Not true. Movies, TV shows, songs, and video games take heat all the time for "influencing people to commit acts of violence." My thinking is that the warning was added by the producers after the show was taped. This type of thing is done routinely when shows depict dangerous, irresponsible acts ( MTV's "Jackass" discalimer for example.) The TV execs probably thought they were doing the right thing by showing the warning and picked an organization they thought was middle of the road, so not to piss off gun owners or mommies. AGS obviously tries to depict itself as such a group, asnd as we all know, media execs are not the most savvy experts on gun issues.
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Right but the gun kills people like the spoon makes people fat.... You can't governmentally ban/censor TV shows since that is protected under the 1st Amendment. So, since it has been shown that gun owners will allow it, they ban certain types of guns. Right? They can take all the heat they want, still won't change their lives AT ALL.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:07:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 7:08:07 PM EDT by Airwolf]
Found this one too: [url]http://www.nssf.org/share/legal/press/naacp/suit_funding.cfm[/url]
Americans for Gun Safety (AGS), founded by Andrew McKelvey, is a project of both the Tsunami Fund and the Tides Center (both are non-profit organizations), and claims to be a bipartisan organization with a centrist perspective on gun control. That facade quickly vanishes once you realize that Tsunami and Tides are ultra-liberal foundations and that Jonathan Cowan, who runs AGS for McKelvey, was Chief of Staff to former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Andrew Cuomo, the self-professed anti-gun point man for the Clinton administration. The facade further vanishes when you discover that Ed Hill, Elisa Barnes' paralegal on the Hamilton case, now works for AGS and is in New York helping Barnes with the NAACP trial. AGS claims to support gun rights, but support of these anti-gun, politically motivated, liberal-financed, frivolous lawsuits is inconsistent with support for the individual right to keep and bear arms. Americans for Gun Safety’s true colors shine through.
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Conclusion: Witch. BURN THEM! [devil]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:10:46 PM EDT
I would be much more comfortable if the message stopped just before "- and that includes keeping all firearms locked and stored away" and the link would have been to the NRA site. They also support gun safety.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:11:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 7:12:19 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
Originally Posted By triburst1: Do you believe that firearms not under your personal control(i.e. not the one in your holster, next to your bed at night, etc.) should be secured so that they do not fall into the wrong hands?
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Sure do. I have locks on both my front and back doors. As well as EVERY single window. Even if I didn't have the $2000 safe they would be locked up. Huh??? Wanna pick nits, we can pick nits. Oh that's right, the criminal that would break in my house and steal or use my guns without my consent doesn't care about the legality of disabling or defeating my locks or taking and using my guns for "dangerous things". You sure you are in the correct place? [>:/]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:19:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Originally Posted By triburst1: Do you believe that firearms not under your personal control(i.e. not the one in your holster, next to your bed at night, etc.) should be secured so that they do not fall into the wrong hands?
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Sure do. I have locks on both my front and back doors. As well as EVERY single window. Even if I didn't have the $2000 safe they would be locked up. Huh??? Wanna pick nits, we can pick nits. Oh that's right, the criminal that would break in my house and steal or use my guns without my consent doesn't care about the legality of disabling or defeating my locks or taking and using my guns for "dangerous things". You sure you are in the correct place? [>:/]
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Don't qusetion my dedication to the cause. I have spent much time and much of my own money fighting for our gun rights. I am not picking nits, and I don't believe all guns should be locked up. I do believe in taking SENSIBLE and REALISTIC measures of making sure MY guns stay in responsible hands where they belong. I believe this because I treausre my gun rights and do everything I possibly can, proactiely and reactively, to enusre we all keep wht rights we have left and regain the ones we have lost through tyranny and stupidity.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:23:55 PM EDT
AGS is the first or second largest anti-gun, pro confiscation group in the country. [url]http://www.wmsa.net/mckelvey.htm[/url] for some aritcles from various sources. At least the Brady bunch have enough guts to use a www address that is explicit [url]www.handguncontrol.org[/url] Beware wolves in sheep's clothing. Molon Labe
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:24:57 PM EDT
i think the message was meant to discourage a bunch of geniuses from playing russian rullete tom.....don't get your panties up in a bunch yet [:p]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:28:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By -Absolut-: i think the message was meant to discourage a bunch of geniuses from playing russian rullete tom.....don't get your panties up in a bunch yet [:p]
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Uh-hu.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:52:21 PM EDT
Haven't seen the episode yet, did the guy at least use a revolver to better increase his odds? [;)]
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:59:43 PM EDT
Write to the show. Tell 'em off. Write to AGS-whatever and tell them off, too. Yes. Boycott.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:44:48 PM EDT
I do plan on writing the show and telling them that while I understand and appreciate their intentions, the group they reference (AGS) is not what it seems to be. I think this is a good idea. I do not plan on boycotting the only show on TV that is not afraid to portray Muslim terrorists for what they are. It is probably the most politically incorrect show on television. The protagonist is an ultra-patriot who is willing to sacrifice himself and any villians who get in his way of defending the American people. Anyone catch the episode last season when Jack excecuted the child molester/white supremacist terrorist, chopped off his head and took it to the guys former cronies to prove a point? What about the one where he raided the mosque and tortured the muslim terrorist to gain intel? I for one, am not willing to write off such as unique and potentially valuable program because the powers that be at FOX tried to keep some fucking idiot from blowing his brians out by mimicking what he saw on the show
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:35:26 PM EDT
It did not offend me, as I laughed at all the uncased guns lying around the house.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 10:03:09 PM EDT
I believe that it is high time that we band together and boycott "24." Not beacause of the message at the end of the latest episode, but because ever since the beginning of Season 2, the writing has been unbelievably stupid.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 3:57:10 AM EDT
Sigh. Some of you people aren't happy unless you have something to bitch about. No, I won't be boycotting 24. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:14:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Sigh. Some of you people aren't happy unless you have something to bitch about. No, I won't be boycotting 24. [rolleyes]
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Pot? This is kettle.........[lol]
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:41:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: Is AGS anti-gun??? I think it is.....[V] [url]http://w3.agsfoundation.com/[/url] They seem to use all the common gun grabber buzzwords.......maybe I'm reading it wrong. From the NRA site: [i]"Americans for Gun Safety Arlington, Virginia Phone (202) 775-0300 Founder: Andrew McKelvey Executive Director: Jonathan Cowan ww2.americansforgunsafety.com AGS was formed in June, 2000 and claims to be a centerist gun safety group. Its Executive Director, however, is the former Chief of staff to the aggressively anti-gun Andrew Cuomo at the Department of Housing and Urban Development. AGS is building a national group by affiliating with smaller state based groups and providing them with funding and an national network under which to operate."[/i]
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Listen to GonzoAR15-1. And the NRA. AGS is anti-gun BIGTIME!!! They're an off shoot of the old Handgun Controll Incorporated. They're funded by the anti gun millionaire who owns Monster.com, I can't remember his name right now, (Mc Kevy or something sounding like that.) At any rate, their stratagy is to ban guns through "sensible gun laws". It's all subterfuge. They're the worst kind of gun ban organization because they refuse to even be up front about it.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:42:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Sigh. Some of you people aren't happy unless you have something to bitch about. No, I won't be boycotting 24. [rolleyes]
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Pot? This is kettle.........[lol]
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Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else. I am not one to constantly post how this show or that movie is supposedly anti-gun.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 5:27:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: Here is the EXACT text:
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[i][red] Hello, I'm Keifer Sutherland. In the dangerous world of "24" - there are sometimes depictions of gun use that include tragic and deadly consequences. If you own a gun, please practice responsible gun safety - and that includes keeping all firearms locked and stored away. For more information on gun safety, contact the following organization [/red]shown on your screen[red]:[/red] insert graphic and web address for [red]Americans For Gun Safety Foundation [/i][/red] That's what I recall seeing. As mentioned above - had the graphic on the screen shown the NRA's website, the first thing I'd of done this morning is gone out and purchased every piece of 24 schwag I could to show my support - but as it is now - fuck 'em, and fuck AGS!
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 5:32:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2003 5:35:46 AM EDT by Dolomite]
At least on fan had the [i]cajones[/i] to post this on the [url=http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=fox24&msg=37204.1]fox.com 24 web forum[/url]:
"Congratulations, Jack. You're an even bigger enemy to your country than I am." The phrase Jack never wanted to hear. Ironic isn't it? Support of Americans for Gun Safety. You have just lost at least one viewer, and yours was the only television show I regularly watched. Americans for Gun Safety is funded through and directly associated with the Tsunami Fund: Profile: Anti-capitalist, anti-gun rights lobbying service provider for left-wing groups. Their mission statement reads: Tsunami Fund is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization that enables progressive donors and activists to impact the legislative arena by providing the organizational infrastructure, strategic management services, and a legal and fiscal home to those advocating for social change. Gave $3,423,869 to Americans for Gun Safety for gun control campaign in 1999. (Read; lets form a socialist government in the USA) AFGS unsuccessfully opposed recent legislation in Michigan to provide shall issue ccw permits. The tsunami fund is also directly associated with activist environmentalists determined to make the world a better place by eradicating humankind.
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Link Posted: 11/26/2003 5:40:43 AM EDT
"Gun safety" is the new comfier, cushier liberal buzzword for "gun control", which has a harsh and strident connotation from the past. The term "gun safety" doesn't upset the Elmer Fudds as much, i.e., blue collar union hunters who vote whom their union local reps tell them to vote for- invariably Democrat.... [dumbguy]as long as they don't take away muh shotgun....or muh 30/30[/dumbguy][rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 5:53:56 AM EDT
Yes... AGS is pro-gun... like the USN DSRV is to submarine rescue... and the FBI HRT is to rescuing hostages...
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 6:09:10 AM EDT
AGS doesn't believe in the 2nd. It's just a group of anti-gunners trying to draw duck hunters and target shooters over to their side. "We'll let you have yours, just let us disarm the whackos." A couple years ago one of the dim-bulbs over there at AGS actually launched an e-mail attack against RoderusCustom.tzo.com.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 6:18:47 AM EDT
I only watched about 10 minutes of it when it first came out and couldn't atand it. Haven't watched it since.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 6:26:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2003 6:30:03 AM EDT by DvlDog]
i think it was the responsible thing to do. they showed a prolonged russian roulette sequence during PRIMETIME. they choose to mention a supposed "centrist group" but at least they picked an organization that promotes gun safety. not anti-gun, not pro-gun...just gun safety. dont get your panties in a wad. that scene was harsh for prime time broadcast TV. it took balls to put that on the air and backing themselves up with a gun safety message was just them honoring the FCC dictum of broadcasting in the public interest.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 6:29:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Taxman: Never watched it.
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Bingo. Either way, I don't like the "keep them locked up" crap. If they came out and said, "Folks, this is a TV show. In real life, guns are instruments that must be treated with respect and with safety as a primary consideration. When handling real firearms, always ensure that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, and always assume the weapon is loaded. Keep them out of the reach of children, and use them in accordance with the law." then MAYBE I'd be okay with it. BTW, I threw the quote above together PDQ. I'm sure there's room to edit...
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