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Posted: 12/1/2018 5:44:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want a real full auto firearm, go buy one. NOTHING is stopping you. Then the limited supply (which causes high prices again Hughes Amendment is to blame) is another. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 5:50:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump runs on 150 octane adulation; he agrees with whoever is kissing his ass at the moment. Check out Feinstein’s Last Orgasam, for example. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This could kill his chances for reelection. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 5:59:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think he didn't personally approve the presidential executive memorandum he sent to Sessions to 'write out' bump stocks, which he bragged of himself on live TV a dozen times over the past year? 
You tools are more delusional than liberals at this point. "Naturally a skeptical man," my ass. If it's not in Trump's Twitter feed, you don't believe it exists (although I'm pretty sure his bump stock ban was in his Twitter feed at least a handful of times this past year). What a tiny, pale little world that must be. It won't be 'finally signed' because it's already been approved; that's what the official memorandum a year ago was. Now the ATF is merely carrying out his orders through a complicated, multi-step process, of which we are currently at the FINAL step and which does not require presidential approval. The only thing Trump could sign --but won't-- is a reversal of his earlier directive. When it is posted 'for real' you'll be here saying you won't believe it until people start getting arrested. And a few years later, that the people being arrested were playing stupid games, deserving their stupid prize, etc. "Spartan at Heart" Molon Maybe
He is just going to wait and see if Trump actually signs this......or reverses it. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:36:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I think this quote from the Washington Post pretty much sums things up:
The move also drew caution from lawmakers who said taking executive action on the devices could lead to court battles. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 1:39:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well then he will find out the hard way come 2020 if he fails to throw us a bone between now and then. 
Hardcore gun rights advocates are a pretty small sliver of the country. People who believe in "common sense gun control" make up the vast majority of Americans. Probably including most gun owners. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:27:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ummmmm... the artificially high price cause by the Hughes Amendment is one thing that stops me...... I can't afford $16,000 for something that should cost around $1,000. Then the limited supply (which causes high prices again Hughes Amendment is to blame) is another. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:15:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want a real full auto firearm, go buy one. NOTHING is stopping you. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:25:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:27:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ummmmm... the artificially high price cause by the Hughes Amendment is one thing that stops me...... I can't afford $16,000 for something that should cost around $1,000. Then the limited supply (which causes high prices again Hughes Amendment is to blame) is another. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:49:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak.
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Posted: 12/1/2018 11:57:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want a real full auto firearm, go buy one. NOTHING is stopping you. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:26:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. Ok dude. There aren't enough transferable machine guns to meet the demand if everyone with a bump fire stock bought them. There's 500k or more bumpstocks in private hands. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 6:38:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ummmmm... the artificially high price cause by the Hughes Amendment is one thing that stops me...... I can't afford $16,000 for something that should cost around $1,000. Then the limited supply (which causes high prices again Hughes Amendment is to blame) is another. Your argument sucks and is weak. Instead of getting upset at the (unconstitutional) law that is an egregious violation of the 2A..... you chastise people unable to afford (or don't want to spend 16x or more the value on) something. You are in one of two categories... 1. You own some full auto and rather than see them affordable and more widespread, you want the law to remain to protect your investment so their value doesn't go down....... 2. You only support 2A when it comes to the kinds of guns you like....and screw all the others. Either way....you are no friend of the 2A |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:31:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Trump is not going to EO a Bumpy Ban.
Congress is not going to pass a law regulating them The BATFE may rule against them by reversing existing rulings making them some fuckery ruling saying umm....bad but other than machine gun. This is going to be tough for them to do without leaving themselves open for a large legal battle. Should any of the above ban without renumeration or grand fathering there will be a very solid 5A case. It is my belief that Congress being pussies, the Pres knowing the consequences for signing anything and the 5A implications of BATFE changing a ruling that is clearly not a machingun is what’s been holding a ban up. .GOV has painted itself into a political and legal definition corner on this one. There is no way for them to easily do this without huge political ramifications as well as a 5A legal battle. Another downside for them is if they get their pee pee’s wracked in court, they limit themselves bigley in future legal attempts because solid precedent has been established. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:40:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Ok did they address the “takings” aspect, government cannot take property without compensation last I knew.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:53:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not.
Hardcore gun rights advocates are a pretty small sliver of the country. People who believe in "common sense gun control" make up the vast majority of Americans. Probably including most gun owners. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 8:55:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok did they address the “takings” aspect, government cannot take property without compensation last I knew. In addition to that, the feds also have a record of seizing things that they contend us lowly subjects shouldn't have. The 'takings' argument will go nowhere. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:20:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trump is not going to EO a Bumpy Ban. Congress is not going to pass a law regulating them The BATFE may rule against them by reversing existing rulings making them some fuckery ruling saying umm....bad but other than machine gun. This is going to be tough for them to do without leaving themselves open for a large legal battle. Should any of the above ban without renumeration or grand fathering there will be a very solid 5A case. It is my belief that Congress being pussies, the Pres knowing the consequences for signing anything and the 5A implications of BATFE changing a ruling that is clearly not a machingun is what's been holding a ban up. .GOV has painted itself into a political and legal definition corner on this one. There is no way for them to easily do this without huge political ramifications as well as a 5A legal battle. Another downside for them is if they get their pee pee's wracked in court, they limit themselves bigley in future legal attempts because solid precedent has been established. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:31:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok did they address the “takings” aspect, government cannot take property without compensation last I knew. If Trump supports taking property without compensation, I will actively work to ensure nobody I know votes for him ever again. It isn't about the stupid object, it's the idea. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:34:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Today Rahm Emanuel said that Democrats need to separate President Donald Trump from his base. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:36:07 AM EDT
[#22]
Is Trump going to speak at the NRA convention again after this goes through? Will he still claim to be upholding and protecting the 2A?
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:36:45 AM EDT
[#23]
I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles.
If Congress and the President wish, then Congress should add them to the definition of a machine gun via legislation. I hope the SC tells them exactly this. (not holding my breath  )
This whole thing has far deeper ramifications than guns. Imagine if Obama had tried this. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:42:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. If Congress and the President wish, then Congress should add them to the definition of a machine gun via legislation. I hope the SC tells them exactly this. (not holding my breath )
This whole thing has far deeper ramifications than guns. Imagine if Obama had tried this. If Obama had tried this........the same people saying "I don't care about bumpstocks" while Trump is doing it........would be screaming about Obama's doing it. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:52:07 AM EDT
[#25]
I propose a new law.
The .GOV can’t ban/outlaw anything without using it themselves for a year. Whether it be bumpstocks, meth, cocaine, heroine... |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the bump-stocks allow more that one round pre trigger squeeze? If Obama had tried this........the same people saying "I don't care about bumpstocks" while Trump is doing it........would be screaming about Obama's doing it.
"I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. " as /az,z/Submit adverb conjunction 2. used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done. "dress as you would if you were having guests" synonyms:in the (same) way that, the (same) way; informallike "we all felt as Frank did" synonyms:like, in the guise of, so as to appear to be More |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:00:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I said they allow them to fire more like an automatic, but not matching the legal definition of a machine gun. Thus the need for legislative clarification. as/az,z/Submit adverb 1. used in comparisons to refer to the extent or degree of something. "hailstones as big as tennis balls" conjunction 1. used to indicate that something happens during the time when something is taking place. "Frank watched him as he ambled through the crowd" synonyms:while, just as, even as, (just) when, at the time that, at the moment that "she looked up as he entered the room" 2. used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done. "dress as you would if you were having guests" synonyms:in the (same) way that, the (same) way; informallike "we all felt as Frank did" preposition 1. used to refer to the function or character that someone or something has. "he got a job as a cook" synonyms:like, in the guise of, so as to appear to be More 2. during the time of being (the thing specified). "he had often been sick as a child" “Operate as a machinegun” That is patently false, then you try to backtrack. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:03:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No you didn't , reread what your first post said . "Operate as a machinegun" That is patently false, then you try to backtrack. But, read the context from the following sentences. I am saying that they don't mechanically operate the same as a machine gun, but have the similar end effect. If Congress wants to add them to the legal definition, they need to amend the law. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:04:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I said they allow them to fire more like an automatic, but not matching the legal definition of a machine gun. Thus the need for legislative clarification.
"I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. " as /az,z/Submit adverb conjunction 2. used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done. "dress as you would if you were having guests" synonyms:in the (same) way that, the (same) way; informallike "we all felt as Frank did" synonyms:like, in the guise of, so as to appear to be More Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So the bump-stocks allow more that one round pre trigger squeeze? If Obama had tried this........the same people saying "I don't care about bumpstocks" while Trump is doing it........would be screaming about Obama's doing it.
"I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. " as /az,z/Submit adverb conjunction 2. used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done. "dress as you would if you were having guests" synonyms:in the (same) way that, the (same) way; informallike "we all felt as Frank did" synonyms:like, in the guise of, so as to appear to be More Yay freedom.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:05:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF already clarified it on at least one, IIRC two occasions. Bumpfire stocks are not machineguns and they do not convert a semi-auto into a machine gun. What more clarification are we looking for here? It's done. More "clarification" will lead to a new definition that conforms to Trump's idea that these are machine guns. Yay freedom. If they want the law, fucking pass it, and reap the consequences that may or may not come. Don't do some sleight of hand/end-around, policy change that circumvents the law. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:07:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:07:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my point. If they want the law, fucking pass it, and reap the consequences that may or may not come. Don't do some sleight of hand/end-around, policy change that circumvents the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ATF already clarified it on at least one, IIRC two occasions. Bumpfire stocks are not machineguns and they do not convert a semi-auto into a machine gun. What more clarification are we looking for here? It's done. More "clarification" will lead to a new definition that conforms to Trump's idea that these are machine guns. Yay freedom. If they want the law, fucking pass it, and reap the consequences that may or may not come. Don't do some sleight of hand/end-around, policy change that circumvents the law. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:09:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That man is dangerous. I believe he is brilliant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Today Rahm Emanuel said that Democrats need to separate President Donald Trump from his base. I really don't see voting for him if he pushes this. No, I do not own one. Going after law abiding people will not stop or curb actions of violent, dangerous people. I want steep repercussions for every time a lie is told on TV or through the news media or while trying to change or pass laws or during any news broadcast. A total truth law. Any lie or misrepresentation of the truth and the broadcast license is pulled for 1 year and a $1 billion fine for the first offense. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:11:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my point. If they want the law, fucking pass it, and reap the consequences that may or may not come. Don't do some sleight of hand/end-around, policy change that circumvents the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ATF already clarified it on at least one, IIRC two occasions. Bumpfire stocks are not machineguns and they do not convert a semi-auto into a machine gun. What more clarification are we looking for here? It's done. More "clarification" will lead to a new definition that conforms to Trump's idea that these are machine guns. Yay freedom. If they want the law, fucking pass it, and reap the consequences that may or may not come. Don't do some sleight of hand/end-around, policy change that circumvents the law. 
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:11:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't give a rat's ass about bump stocks either. But the ban bump stocks is nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on semi automatics. Even if it's not meant that way now, it's how it will eventually be used. Supporting it, or even allowing it to stand is foolish. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This ban is pointless, will likely be largely ignored by most and will serve only to make hoplophobic liberals feel good. In a year or less, the only affect will be that those who used them in public won't be able to use them in public anymore. There will be no direct confiscations as they are untraceable and would be low on the priority list for even the most zealous ATF agent. If you choose to not vote to reelect Trump because of this, you increase the liklihood that a gun hating demorat will be elected and they WILL move to pass draconian anti-gun legislation. Choose your battles, that's what President Trump did. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:30:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow! Some 2A supporter you are.... Instead of getting upset at the (unconstitutional) law that is an egregious violation of the 2A..... you chastise people unable to afford (or don't want to spend 16x or more the value on) something. You are in one of two categories... 1. You own some full auto and rather than see them affordable and more widespread, you want the law to remain to protect your investment so their value doesn't go down....... 2. You only support 2A when it comes to the kinds of guns you like....and screw all the others. Either way....you are no friend of the 2A |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:33:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok did they address the “takings” aspect, government cannot take property without compensation last I knew. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:38:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the bump-stocks allow more that one round pre trigger squeeze? If Obama had tried this........the same people saying "I don't care about bumpstocks" while Trump is doing it........would be screaming about Obama's doing it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. If Congress and the President wish, then Congress should add them to the definition of a machine gun via legislation. I hope the SC tells them exactly this. (not holding my breath )
This whole thing has far deeper ramifications than guns. Imagine if Obama had tried this. If Obama had tried this........the same people saying "I don't care about bumpstocks" while Trump is doing it........would be screaming about Obama's doing it. M855 ban was stopped, " 'cuz that Markist Kenyon Moslim" was President. No one wasn't faulting Obama's DOJ for the 7N6 ban. Even under Obama, we gained carry in National Parks. Now we bend over and take that shit. Vepr import ban and now the bumpstocks. The only significant pro-2A victory by Trump has been getting the Obama Social Security gun restrictions repealed. No political capital was spent by the President to advance the RKBA with Republican controlled Senate and House even after a Republican softball game was attacked by a Democrat. Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will pay dividends one day, hopefully soon since they need to undo the shit coming from the Executive branch. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:42:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. If Congress and the President wish, then Congress should add them to the definition of a machine gun via legislation. I hope the SC tells them exactly this. (not holding my breath )
This whole thing has far deeper ramifications than guns. Imagine if Obama had tried this. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:48:23 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The reg mentions slidefire by name, multiple times. Crux is being disingenuous and hoping against hope that his imaginary best friend hasn't screwed all of us with this great brain fart. Just like how for months we've heard how the NRA didn't actually support banning them despite expressing support for banning "mg conversion devices," and it was an elaborate rope a dope. Well, the #2 gal in the NRA came out today and said the association has always favored banning bump stocks and machine guns. None of these people are on our (actual, interested and aware gun owners) side. I searched back on google and TTAG and can't find it. Can someone link it? All I get is the older statements she's made: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/luis-valdes/marion-hammer-nra-never-wanted-legal-machine-guns-bump-fire-stocks/ |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 10:56:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever heard of Civil Asset Forfeiture? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ok did they address the “takings” aspect, government cannot take property without compensation last I knew. Then again the SC let municipalities eminent domain properties on behalf of private developers. 
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Posted: 12/2/2018 11:12:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you really think anyone who has invested in full auto really wants the Hughes Act to be abolished? (Yes, I'm sure there's more than a few. The point still stands.) Think of how much money they'd lose on their "investments" if the Colt M16 they paid $25,000 for NIB was suddenly only "worth" $1,000. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wow! Some 2A supporter you are.... Instead of getting upset at the (unconstitutional) law that is an egregious violation of the 2A..... you chastise people unable to afford (or don't want to spend 16x or more the value on) something. You are in one of two categories... 1. You own some full auto and rather than see them affordable and more widespread, you want the law to remain to protect your investment so their value doesn't go down....... 2. You only support 2A when it comes to the kinds of guns you like....and screw all the others. Either way....you are no friend of the 2A |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 11:21:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to disagree. The government making something artificially scarce through legislation is wrong and it is the essential problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Your inability to budget and save to afford something which is so incredibly important to you is a real tear jerker. Your argument sucks and is weak.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 12:58:01 PM EDT
[#44]
There is nothing in the Constitution which prohibits Congress from taxing the exercise of constitutional rights except the 24th amendment, which is limited to voting.
The men who drafted the Constitution limited Congress' power to lay direct taxes, but that was swept away in 1913 |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:39:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that bump-stocks allow AR15s to operate (unreliably) as fully automatic rifles. If Congress and the President wish, then Congress should add them to the definition of a machine gun via legislation. I hope the SC tells them exactly this. (not holding my breath )
This whole thing has far deeper ramifications than guns. Imagine if Obama had tried this. |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:49:02 PM EDT
[#46]
These threads always bring out the Fudds, boot-lickers, and "Muh NFA investment" types.
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:54:17 PM EDT
[#47]
If I might break up the purse swinging for a moment.
Has Trump actually signed anything yet? |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:56:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I might break up the purse swinging for a moment. Has Trump actually signed anything yet? |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:56:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I might break up the purse swinging for a moment. Has Trump actually signed anything yet? |
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Posted: 12/2/2018 1:58:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I might break up the purse swinging for a moment. Has Trump actually signed anything yet? And I don’t think trump signs anything the atf puts out anyway |
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