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Posted: 11/26/2018 2:50:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is rare for me to find an RMR person who admits to that. I admit I tried to jump on the bandwagon. I bought an FNX 45 Tactical and put an adjsutable LED RMR on it. After 1 range trip I knew it wasn't for me and a big part of that was how much oil/carbon was spewed onto the glass. I sold both the gun and optic and never looked back. Any time I bring that experience up though the BS flag gets waved it seems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@corrosionguy  RMR behind rear sight is the way to go.- interferes with less non-optic cut holsters (don't gotta buy more holsters) - no lube/carbon clouding rmr glass from ejection port (increased distance from ejection port) - rear sight doesn't eat up any Rmr window (dot can be superimposed over rear when sight is in front) I admit I tried to jump on the bandwagon. I bought an FNX 45 Tactical and put an adjsutable LED RMR on it. After 1 range trip I knew it wasn't for me and a big part of that was how much oil/carbon was spewed onto the glass. I sold both the gun and optic and never looked back. Any time I bring that experience up though the BS flag gets waved it seems. 
Add me to the list of 50+ guys who's eyes don't focus as fast on the front sight. 
For now, widening the rear sight notch on my iron sighted pistols is working for a clear focus on the front sight. However, I know a red dot on my most used pistols is in my future. I might as well get used to it now! |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 2:50:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Yall are all heathens
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Posted: 11/26/2018 2:55:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryNothing is wrong with a good magnum!
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Posted: 11/26/2018 2:55:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to hang shit off your gun to be a good shooter. You just have to shoot it more than you bang on your keyboard. I'm also far from Arfcoms resident instructor. But I am an instructor, one of many on this site. I'm also a lifetime student. As a student who doesn't know everything, it's easy to recognize someone arguing from a position of inexperience, because I've done it myself in the past. You'd be doing yourself a huge favor by arguing with me less and signing up for a class or a competition. Don't take my word for it. Get out there and do some shooting. I know that's harder than staying ignorant and snarky with a stranger online, but..... |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:02:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:05:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do i really need a red dot and a flashlight on my Every day carry Glock 26 which I often conceal under a tee shirt..... 
If the question is "does a red dot and a flashlight increase my capabilities with a firearm" the answer is yes. If the question is "can I conceal a gun with a red dot under a t shirt" the answer is also yes (slight caveat to with the right body type, belt, and holster, but still for most people a yes). "Am I going to get killt in da streets" if I don't have the latest and greatest and just carry a Glock 26, J frame, what the fuck ever? No. Is point shooting dumb? Yes. Any more questions you need answered? 
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:05:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have carried for years and shoot weekly..I have also competed...My point which got lost somewhere in the snark. Is simply this...Do i really need a red dot and a flashlight on my Every day carry Glock 26 which I often conceal under a tee shirt..... A light? It's always good to have immediate access to some type of light even if it's something like one of the AAA Streamlights. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's my preferred solution, a line scribed on the rear of the RMR. It's a clean install, no overly high sights and for back up sights you just put the dot on the front sight on the post. https://i.imgur.com/yG5ffTs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sVW7zO9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0NuPw2t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QpmrC6a.jpg Add me to the list of 50+ guys who's eyes don't focus as fast on the front sight.
For now, widening the rear sight notch on my iron sighted pistols is working for a clear focus on the front sight. However, I know a red dot on my most used pistols is in my future. I might as well get used to it now! |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:10:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just picked up a 507c for my x5 over the weekend, have an RMR on my glock 40 and mp5 and love it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:12:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very interested to hear what you think of the 507c Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just picked up a 507c for my x5 over the weekend, have an RMR on my glock 40 and mp5 and love it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:19:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question you're asking isn't the right one. You don't need anything but a rusty spoon and a bad attitude to defend yourself. Or maybe a keyboard.
If the question is "does a red dot and a flashlight increase my capabilities with a firearm" the answer is yes. If the question is "can I conceal a gun with a red dot under a t shirt" the answer is also yes (slight caveat to with the right body type, belt, and holster, but still for most people a yes). "Am I going to get killt in da streets" if I don't have the latest and greatest and just carry a Glock 26, J frame, what the fuck ever? No. Is point shooting dumb? Yes. Any more questions you need answered? Have a good day.. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:20:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that a rear sight that has an RMR plate connected to it (1 piece) that sits on top of the slide? If so, and it's stable, that's pretty genius. Does it hold zero well? It is a dovetail mount with built in back up sights. It is made by Dueck Defense. https://dueckdefense.com/dueck-defense-products/#dfr The base is wide enough that you don't need the additional waterproof plate. I have not had zero shift so far in over 500 rounds. I have watched torture test of it on YouTube, but I see no need to abuse it myself. I am left handed as well so, I like forward serrations on my slides. I use the RMR to manipulate the slide sometimes too. I did not want to spend the money and time to have all of my slides milled therefore, this type of mount offers a solid solution. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:27:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a solution for those who don't want to spend the money to mill your slide. The Dueck Defense mounts are about $150 for trits and $125 without. I have a milled slide as well, and I don't see any practical difference in speed or target acquisition. I don't even have backup sights on my milled slide. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/432675/DUECK_DEFENSE_G45_jpg-751563.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/432675/RMR_2_G45_jpg-751565.JPG I kind of like that. Is it secure enough just by being mounted in the rear dovetail? |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:29:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Yeah, crutches are a bad thing mmmkay? What are you going to do when you drop it and break the RDS, and then the pack of rabid dogs led by the zombies charges you and you cant fucking defend yourself because your RDS battery cover popped off and the battery flew out.
There you are on your hands and knees frantically looking for the battery when the zombie led dogs are charging down on you. In a fit of jealousy the aliens blast the dogs because no, you wont be so lucky as to be eaten by zombie led dogs no you're going to get aliennapped and have weird shaped metal objects stuck up your ass for the next decade by the aliens who saved you from a quick death by pointed tooth filled canine jaws. All because you thought RDS was a good idea. Bet you're rethinking that RDS shit about now arent you...... Irons for lyfe. Irons for defense. Irons to keep from having weird shaped metal objects stuck up your ass. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:32:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Presbyopia will make an RMR convert out of you.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:37:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I kind of like that. Is it secure enough just by being mounted in the rear dovetail? It seems pretty darn solid to me. Is it door kicking, ISIS slaughtering, Unit hostage rescuing, Saddam hunting secure enough? Well, I don't know, but I am retired now, and it seems to be just fine for my CCW duties. I am not here to tell anyone what to do, etc. I am just trying to provide information so that people can make an informed decision and maybe save some time, money, and heartache. Maybe you might still want to go with the full custom milled slide for your primary weapon, but use this $125 mount for a secondary or tertiary. The Dueck can easily be installed on your own work bench. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:39:57 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/26/2018 3:40:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @TheDuck It seems pretty darn solid to me. Is it door kicking, ISIS slaughtering, Unit hostage rescuing, Saddam hunting secure enough? Well, I don't know, but I am retired now, and it seems to be just fine for my CCW duties. I am not here to tell anyone what to do, etc. I am just trying to provide information so that people can make an informed decision and maybe save some time, money, and heartache. Maybe you might still want to go with the full custom milled slide for your primary weapon, but use this $125 mount for a secondary or tertiary. The Dueck can easily be installed on your own work bench. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:02:49 PM EDT
[#19]
First time red dot user on a pistol here.
Just put a Vortex Venom on a Ruger MK 4 and having a hard time getting over how much that red dot moves. Using my AR pistol with a red dot is no problem because I can settle in and the dot doesn't move around. Even off hand its way steadier and rightfully so with having more points of contact. With the MK4 shooting with iron sites I can get a nice 2-3" grouping at 10-12 yards, red dot grouping is more sporadic and about 2" larger than iron sight groupings. Do you guys do anything different when shooting with a red dot sight? Sit against the trigger wall and break it as the dot crosses the target? |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:03:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Meh, I can't see it. You're not supposed to "aim" in a high stress, close quarters defensive, or offensive shooting situation anyways.
I'd rather my CCW be smaller and more compact. If it works for you though, I can see advantages in it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:22:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're not supposed to "aim" in a high stress, close quarters defensive, or offensive shooting situation anyways. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:30:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still waiting for a rmr sized for subcompact pistols and I'll throw one on my 365. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:30:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I’ve only done two of mine so far, but it is superior for sure. Feels like cheating.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:34:52 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:35:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is there a pencil in this picture? In the trigger guard no less... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: There is a learning curve like all things. It’s like riding a moped all your life and then getting on a sport bike. The sport bike requires more skill than the moped, however, once you learn, the sport bike can do things the moped could never do. If you will not put the time into practice don’t bother with a red dot on top. If you do, great things will happen. Used this for my CCW course on Saturday. Was able to shoot center mass a hair faster than my regular iron G19. And I’ve only shot this pistol 3 times and put in less than 150 rounds. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/170028/227F719F-1ED0-4F3E-8A13-A71DF5037F06_jpeg-751541.JPG |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:36:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very interested to hear what you think of the 507c |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:37:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's my preferred solution, a line scribed on the rear of the RMR. It's a clean install, no overly high sights and for back up sights you just put the dot on the front sight on the post. https://i.imgur.com/yG5ffTs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sVW7zO9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0NuPw2t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QpmrC6a.jpg Add me to the list of 50+ guys who's eyes don't focus as fast on the front sight.
For now, widening the rear sight notch on my iron sighted pistols is working for a clear focus on the front sight. However, I know a red dot on my most used pistols is in my future. I might as well get used to it now! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
@corrosionguy RMR behind rear sight is the way to go.- interferes with less non-optic cut holsters (don't gotta buy more holsters) - no lube/carbon clouding rmr glass from ejection port (increased distance from ejection port) - rear sight doesn't eat up any Rmr window (dot can be superimposed over rear when sight is in front) I admit I tried to jump on the bandwagon. I bought an FNX 45 Tactical and put an adjsutable LED RMR on it. After 1 range trip I knew it wasn't for me and a big part of that was how much oil/carbon was spewed onto the glass. I sold both the gun and optic and never looked back. Any time I bring that experience up though the BS flag gets waved it seems. https://i.imgur.com/yG5ffTs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sVW7zO9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0NuPw2t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QpmrC6a.jpg Add me to the list of 50+ guys who's eyes don't focus as fast on the front sight.
For now, widening the rear sight notch on my iron sighted pistols is working for a clear focus on the front sight. However, I know a red dot on my most used pistols is in my future. I might as well get used to it now! |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:37:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh, I can't see it. You're not supposed to "aim" in a high stress, close quarters defensive, or offensive shooting situation anyways. I'd rather my CCW be smaller and more compact. If it works for you though, I can see advantages in it. Not aiming? Stop giving advice. I point guns at people in high stress incidents almost weekly. Not aiming means sending rounds where they don’t need to go. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:38:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What in the literal fuck are you talking about. Sight picture and alignment are critical. Not aiming? Stop giving advice. I point guns at people in high stress incidents almost weekly. Not aiming means sending rounds where they don't need to go. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:41:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mounting plate should be here this week. I might do some low light drills this week after I get home. Initial impression is it's super nice, wish they would have cheaped out on the packaging though, I would have rather saved more on my budget rds and had it come in a cardboard box instead of the nice plastic box it comes in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Very interested to hear what you think of the 507c It does use the same mounting as an RMR correct? |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:43:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Do want...
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Posted: 11/26/2018 4:58:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What in the literal fuck are you talking about. Sight picture and alignment are critical. Not aiming? Stop giving advice. I point guns at people in high stress incidents almost weekly. Not aiming means sending rounds where they don’t need to go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh, I can't see it. You're not supposed to "aim" in a high stress, close quarters defensive, or offensive shooting situation anyways. I'd rather my CCW be smaller and more compact. If it works for you though, I can see advantages in it. Not aiming? Stop giving advice. I point guns at people in high stress incidents almost weekly. Not aiming means sending rounds where they don’t need to go. I'm not even going to explain it to you, you've obviously never been trained the way so have. Just keep that bullet in your front shirt pocket. 
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Posted: 11/26/2018 5:01:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol I knew some mall cop would say something. Yeah because i meant holding my pistol above my head shooting in the opposite direction to which I'm running or even looking. I'm not even going to explain it to you, you've obviously never been trained the way so have. Just keep that bullet in your front shirt pocket.  Please carry on. I bow down to your clearly superior shooting skills and tactics, oh holy untrained point shooter.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 5:34:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 11/26/2018 5:34:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looking forward to it. It does use the same mounting as an RMR correct? |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 5:51:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@96Ag yes same mounts/footprint as the RMR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looking forward to it. It does use the same mounting as an RMR correct? |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 5:56:37 PM EDT
[#37]
The RDS market is rapidly evolving. IMO, there are several almost-good-enough options but the gold standard hasn't arrived yet. Water resistance, battery life, and durability are not where I'd like them to be. I'm not going to cut up any guns just yet. Mounting is also something of a clusterfuck with competing solutions proliferating like rabbits.
I'm awaiting a solution to become standardized which supports a high degree of flexibility, something like the Agency AOS system. However, direct attachment to the slide seems to be preferred for longevity and simplicity. http://www.agencyarms.com/agency-optic-system-aos-cut Current mounting solutions are necessarily shoehorned around existing slide designs. At some point, someone will design a slide from the ground up to accept a mounting system. That means no more short, thin screws and badly placed rear sights. Manufacturers will tell you that they've already done this with their new optic-ready models but it just isn't the case. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 7:05:32 PM EDT
[#38]
While I'm sure they are faster.. I'm still a fan of KISS. and I have been practicing with irons for a long time... As my 54 yr old eyes can still see the front sight as well as a red dot that is even closer to me.... and I know that the irons will work in any condition... I just have not seen the need for me to make the jump and then have to invest the time in something that will give me a slight increase in juice... for a lot more squeeze, with a incremental increase away from KISS.
Great can be the enemy of good. Yeah, I know... I'm turning into a fudd.... but I feel pretty confident in my skill with a pistol and if I thought this would give me a night and day benefit over Irons, I would make the switch... The need for me to make a hundred yard shot with my G19 might come in handy at a walk back drill in a class... but on the street, there are other things that will make that skill take a back seat too. If I score a good deal on a second slide with an RMR (if they come into a reasonable price range) I will get one so I can play and who knows, I may just be a convert... but I have enough experience that I know this is not going to turn me into a Master class shooter overnight. Just my .02 |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 7:09:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The RDS market is rapidly evolving. IMO, there are several almost-good-enough options but the gold standard hasn't arrived yet. Water resistance, battery life, and durability are not where I'd like them to be. I'm not going to cut up any guns just yet. Mounting is also something of a clusterfuck with competing solutions proliferating like rabbits. I'm awaiting a solution to become standardized which supports a high degree of flexibility, something like the Agency AOS system. However, direct attachment to the slide seems to be preferred for longevity and simplicity. http://www.agencyarms.com/agency-optic-system-aos-cut Current mounting solutions are necessarily shoehorned around existing slide designs. At some point, someone will design a slide from the ground up to accept a mounting system. That means no more short, thin screws and badly placed rear sights. Manufacturers will tell you that they've already done this with their new optic-ready models but it just isn't the case. Honestly, the RMR type 2 with some quality torx screws solves quite a few of the problems associated with early mini rds’s in pistols. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 7:27:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I live in Chicago...So take my experience with self defense shootings with a grain of salt. I must ask..Since most armed altercations are like seconds long and at very short distances. How in the hell do you guys have the time and distance to draw turn on a light acquire a sight picture and shoot. I carry a G26 and train point shooting. Don't even look at the sights. As for the RMR01 I have mounted on top, that's on 24/7, I think Trij says the batteries are good for 2 plus years, I swap them out about 1x a year.. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 7:29:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I'm sure they are faster.. I'm still a fan of KISS. and I have been practicing with irons for a long time... As my 54 yr old eyes can still see the front sight as well as a red dot that is even closer to me.... and I know that the irons will work in any condition... I just have not seen the need for me to make the jump and then have to invest the time in something that will give me a slight increase in juice... for a lot more squeeze, with a incremental increase away from KISS. Great can be the enemy of good. Yeah, I know... I'm turning into a fudd.... but I feel pretty confident in my skill with a pistol and if I thought this would give me a night and day benefit over Irons, I would make the switch... The need for me to make a hundred yard shot with my G19 might come in handy at a walk back drill in a class... but on the street, there are other things that will make that skill take a back seat too. If I score a good deal on a second slide with an RMR (if they come into a reasonable price range) I will get one so I can play and who knows, I may just be a convert... but I have enough experience that I know this is not going to turn me into a Master class shooter overnight. Just my .02 read the sage dynamics white paper. Link summary: more accurate/effective at any distance - even up close. Force on Force hitmaps  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 7:30:15 PM EDT
[#42]
To me red dots only look right on Glocks. It seems they are all made to the exact width of a Glock slide.
And I don’t like Glocks. 
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:07:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
irons-forward master race everyone swears I'm doing it wrong, but I much prefer the rear sight in front of the RMR Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@corrosionguy RMR behind rear sight is the way to go.- interferes with less non-optic cut holsters (don't gotta buy more holsters) - no lube/carbon clouding rmr glass from ejection port (increased distance from ejection port) - rear sight doesn't eat up any Rmr window (dot can be superimposed over rear when sight is in front) everyone swears I'm doing it wrong, but I much prefer the rear sight in front of the RMR |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:11:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm currently considering going RMR. Just not sure about the whole battery thing though. I know they are supposed to last a year and all. Now if they had Aimpoint like battery life I'd be all in. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:17:41 PM EDT
[#45]
I’ll play when the Aimpoint ACRO is available to purchase.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:32:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you compete? I've tried "point shooting" on the move, on a timer and on scored targets. A flash sight picture, even a terrible one, is superior to point shooting. If it's slower than point shooting it's by a tenth or two of a second if that, and I always get better hits with a flash sight picture than I do just point shooting. Planning on not using your sights for self defense is a really, really terrible plan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The correct answer is you should be able to point shoot (on the move) when necessary, controlled pair when necessary along with precision type shots. failure to become proficient at all 3 is a mistake. Chances are that if I need to use my CCW at defense ranges I will not be using the sights. I've tried "point shooting" on the move, on a timer and on scored targets. A flash sight picture, even a terrible one, is superior to point shooting. If it's slower than point shooting it's by a tenth or two of a second if that, and I always get better hits with a flash sight picture than I do just point shooting. Planning on not using your sights for self defense is a really, really terrible plan. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:33:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Ive been shooting with an RMR on my Glock for 2 years now.
I have seen the light and I fully embrace the pistol with a slide mounted red dot. I know full well it's not for everyone, but it definitely gives me a huge advantage over irons. It does have a learning curve that some don't have the time or patience to work through. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 8:33:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When a weapon becomes a chore to EDC due to size or maintenance it will stay home by and by, I don't care what the "best thing since sliced bread" kids have to say. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interested for sure on a game gun, not sure on EDC... How well do they holster? On a carry gun, do you leave them on all the time? Whats the batt life and life of the laser/Dot? 
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Posted: 11/26/2018 9:00:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh my bad i didn't know you were ARFCOM's resident firearms instructor....Please give me a detailed list of what i should hang off my my daily carry pistol to make me a most Superior Gun fighter like you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 
Some horses can't be taught to drink water. Even if you drown them in it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2018 9:07:36 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm just waiting till I can afford to mill my Operators slide.
My wife has a 05 on her g19 in a DD mount.  Attached File |
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