What in the sam hell is up with this brass I found?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What in the sam hell is up with this brass I found?

Posted: 11/23/2003 11:51:54 PM EDT

So there I was, doing the AZ-K9 shooting range version of the tramp in a dumpster, and I come across these.

The one on the right, is obviously .308, but check out the vertical lines on the case. They are actually ridges and can be felt with the fingers. Maybe fireformed in a funky chamber?

The middle one is kinda weird, check the headstamp? WTF?

And the left one falls into the IDUNNO category?

S

Posted: 11/23/2003 11:58:48 PM EDT

[#1]

The .308 appears to have been fired from a fluted chamber, such as a CETME.

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:06:07 AM EDT

[#2]

Another vote for a CETME or HK re the .308 case. The other 2 are surplus 8x57 Mauser cases. The 1947 one has the crescent moon on it & the other has Arabic writing. I've got a few boxes of ammo like #2 floating around here somewhere's. A bunch of surplus 8x57 has been imported from Turkey in the recent past. From what I've read it's kinda questionable in the QC department which would explain the the split case necks....along with the fact that it is 60+ years old.

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:34:47 AM EDT

[#3]

What exactly is the advantage or purpose of a fluted chamber?

Posted: 11/24/2003 12:41:10 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
What exactly is the advantage or purpose of a fluted chamber?

View Quote

To allow extraction.

Something about reducing chamber pressure or something, to allow the delayed roller lock mechanism extract the brass.

Posted: 11/24/2003 1:29:00 AM EDT

[#5]

2 8mm cases on the left and a .308 fired by an HK on the right. Looks like the neck gave up on the far left for what ever reason. I think the one case might be Egyptian.

Posted: 11/24/2003 1:36:04 AM EDT

[#6]

The .308 case is definitly from an HK or CETME. The CETME, G3/91, and other fluted chamber weapons were designed to use brass of a certain hardness so that the chamber would reliably extract the brass cartridge after firing.

Posted: 11/24/2003 4:58:09 AM EDT

[#7]

The left 8MM is Turkish, the middle 8MM is Egyptian.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:22:27 AM EDT

[#8]

Turk 8mm does not have annealed necks; much of it splits when fired. I have shot a boatload of it in Mausers and a 1919 MG. Some requires two strikes in the Mauser. I have also seen neck problems with 7.62x54r.

HK/Cetme really does a number on brass! I have also shot steel case Chinese in these without incident.

I too enjoy collecting odd brass at the rage!

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:37:29 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What exactly is the advantage or purpose of a fluted chamber?

View Quote

To allow extraction.

Something about reducing chamber pressure or something, to allow the delayed roller lock mechanism extract the brass.

View Quote

I believe the reason is exactly the opposite. The groves cause the case to "stick" in the chamber slightly for a mili-second to allow the pressure to peak and start going down before the roller lock starts to extract the brass.

HK also uses this system on other calibers.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:42:47 AM EDT

[#10]

I do not fully understand the theory of HK chamber / rollerlock system, but I DO know that an improperly fluted chamber will NOT extract!! Had a new barrel that was improperly machined and you had to beat cases out of the thing.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:45:12 AM EDT

[#11]

I had a .303 Enfield that did that vertical line thing.

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:52:06 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I do not fully understand the theory of HK chamber / rollerlock system, but I DO know that an improperly fluted chamber will NOT extract!! Had a new barrel that was improperly machined and you had to beat cases out of the thing.

View Quote

Your right... The flutes aid in the extraction of the spent case. Since there is no twisting action to the bolt, there is nothing to break the grip of the case to the chamber wall. The flutes allow a little of the gas pressure to seep between the chamber and the brass allowing it to pop free from the chamber wall. Remember there is no gas system to the HK/Cetme design. its all blow back. So you got to have the flutes(deep flutes).

Posted: 11/24/2003 5:59:22 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

The one on the right, is obviously .308, but check out the vertical lines on the case. They are actually ridges and can be felt with the fingers. Maybe fireformed in a funky chamber?

S

View Quote

HK 91.....

Posted: 11/24/2003 6:50:29 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
The left 8MM is Turkish, the middle 8MM is Egyptian.

View Quote

Yep.

AZ-k9, If I didnt know better I would say you were at the range behing me. Although I tend to pick up all of my brass, even stuff I cant reload. BTW the egyptian stuff is the only ammo I know of that comes gift wrapped!
CH

[img]http://w3.gorge.net/jasong/pictures/8mm-1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://w3.gorge.net/jasong/pictures/8mm-2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://w3.gorge.net/jasong/pictures/8mm-3.jpg[/img]

Posted: 11/24/2003 7:59:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Yup, made a bunch of little donations to the brasspile substantially identical to #1 on Saturday.. The split necks I consider about standard for 50+ year old surplus. Happens a LOT with .303 blanks too, but those are star-crimps, so the necks undergo a lot more trauma. Was shooting the turk 8mm from a Yugo Mauser, and needed a few doublestrikes.

Oh yea, and if you're getting fluted markings on .303 brass out of a standard enfield, may I suggest a gunsmith? Enfields have smooth chambers, or should at any rate.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What in the sam hell is up with this brass I found?

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