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Posted: 11/23/2003 8:04:42 AM EDT
I have been talking to my secretary. she is 22, lives at home with her parents, and makes, I'm guessing, $8/hr?
I've been trying to convince her that she's too young to already be at a deadend. There is no future in her position except to hope for a 3% cost of living raise every year. which means that she can afford to live at home with her parents for the rest of her life. There is no "senior secretary" position to get promoted to. All the other female positions in the company are degreed.
She acknowledges that going to college & getting a degree are good things, and a good way to get ahead. But she just keeps tossing up excuse after excuse. "Too many bills, have to work full-time, don't know what I want to study." I keep trying to explain that an AA degree is perfect for her, because it will expose her to lots of possible majors. Hell, the AA degree was INVENTED for people that don't know what they want to do.
She just keeps tossing up roadblocks & excuses.

My brother, only 3 years younger than me (I'm 28) is also working a dead-end job and miserable. He actually has a degree (in German, how's that for useful?) but isnt using it. He keeps talking about how he's going back to school, and he's been on about it for about 2 years now. He also "doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up." This is a smart kid too. Genius level IQ, brain bowl & honors society and all that nerdy crap in high school, scholarships to college, etc.

I swear, sometimes I really do feel like Norman74 stands for my age not my birth year. The last time I saw my grandfather before he died last year just shy of being 80, we got along famously.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:19:20 AM EDT
They were raised by their parents.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:25:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
They were raised by their parents.


then explain how my brother and I can come from the same parents, same house, same everything, and wind up so differently?
My secretary has two brothers (I think) both of whom have good jobs, with room for advancement. Her one brother worked his way up in the restaurant business and is a manager of something somewhere. No degree that I know of for him either.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:27:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
They were raised by their parents.


then explain how my brother and I can come from the same parents, same house, same everything, and wind up so differently?
My secretary has two brothers (I think) both of whom have good jobs, with room for advancement. Her one brother worked his way up in the restaurant business and is a manager of something somewhere. No degree that I know of for him either.

It was a book you read
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:30:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
They were raised by their parents.


then explain how my brother and I can come from the same parents, same house, same everything, and wind up so differently?
My secretary has two brothers (I think) both of whom have good jobs, with room for advancement. Her one brother worked his way up in the restaurant business and is a manager of something somewhere. No degree that I know of for him either.

It was a book you read



Haha, nice try. I didn't read that book until this year, and I was already well on my way to where I've gotten and where I'm going.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:33:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
They were raised by their parents.


then explain how my brother and I can come from the same parents, same house, same everything, and wind up so differently?
My secretary has two brothers (I think) both of whom have good jobs, with room for advancement. Her one brother worked his way up in the restaurant business and is a manager of something somewhere. No degree that I know of for him either.


Same here norman74 ---- 1 of 3 brothers and we are so different, with no explanation. Don't know why, never could figure it out.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:41:11 AM EDT
age doesnt have anything to do with it. it's the way they were raised, their own personality, and their surroundings

you talk like that age is the determining factor when your brother is only 3 yrs younger than you.......................
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:45:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
age doesnt have anything to do with it. it's the way they were raised, their own personality, and their surroundings

you talk like that age is the determining factor when your brother is only 3 yrs younger than you.......................



there has to be a cutoff somewhere right? maybe the cutoff is a year behind me, maybe two, hell maybe it's actually ahead of me and I am just an anomally.
Bottom line is that it's an attitude that seems pretty prevalent among kids 25 and under that I and my friends didn't have when we were that age.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:45:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 8:46:52 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
SO let me get this straight,

Gen Y is not motivated enough, according to Gen X?

How is that even possible?

Next a Gen X'er will be saying Gen Y is self centered.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:50:30 AM EDT
Maybe she is satisfied where she's at doing what she's doing. I once turned down a promotion because I loved what I was doing at the time. I didn't want to change.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:50:51 AM EDT
Hmmm, interesting...
I have a twin brother. He is 7 minutes older than I. I started working full time 2 days after I graduated from high school. I am 35 years old. I have been married almost 13 years, have two awesome babies, held a great job for the last 15 years, and own a house.
My twin cannot hold a job for more than a year, has been divorced, ruined credit, no social skills, and has moved from state to staet alot in the past years.
Everybody is different. Wierd.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
SO let me get this straight,

Gen Y is not motivated enough, according to Gen X?

How is that even possible?

Next a Gen X'er will be saying Gen Y is self centered.



Nope, I'm self centered. I also don't see anyting wrong with being self-centered. Look at what the previous generation's concern for others got us.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:56:04 AM EDT
If kids in a family are not secure they seek different ways to express their individuality. Some choose to do well in school, others rebel and then there's a wide spectrum from military to priesthood etc.

Fractured families produce even less able parents as the generations progress. There are always exceptions but the pendulum still swings.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:56:28 AM EDT
My three Gen Y stories:

I know the feeling. I had an 18 year old son that graduated from HS in 2002. He can barely read and his writing is, at best, 8th grade level. After HS, he was all set to just kick back at home, skateboard, and socialize with his gen Y friends. After about six months of him looking for a job and not finding one, I put a boot up his ass, metaphorically speaking, and told him to get a life. He joined the Army in Jan and is now 19 and in Iraq with the 4th ID and loves it.

My current 17 year old gen Y step-daughter was raised in a very sheltered and protected environment. She was overly protected by her mother who, in contrast, led a very unsheltered and sometimes hard life. She is big time into community theater and wants to study musical theater in college. She has an educational trust fund that will be worth about $80K dollars by the time she starts to use it next fall. She has this wide open opprotunity to go to a really good college and study a subject near and dear to her heart and she doesn't even have the motivation to sit down and do the admission applications. My wife is starting to stress because if she wants to start school next fall she better get her paperwork done now.

Family friends 17 year old gen Y daughter had it all worked out to get a full ROTC scholarship with room and board at a very nice College up the road in VT. All she has to do is get decent grades the rest of her senior year. What does she do? She fails economics. Now her scholarship is in jeopardy and her mother is so pissed she can't see straight.

Don't know what the hell is wrong with kids these days. Some are okay, some just don't seem to care about their futures and prefer to let things happen to them instead of taking charge and deciding their own fates.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:57:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By einnor1040:
Maybe she is satisfied where she's at doing what she's doing. I once turned down a promotion because I loved what I was doing at the time. I didn't want to change.


Well, if she wasn't constantly complaining about not having any money, I might could buy that.
and even so, it doesn't change the fact that she has no goals. If she's happy with her current job, her goal is to what, sit on her ass for the rest of her life? I just have no tollerance for people with no goals or drive.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:57:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 8:58:25 AM EDT by walttx]
MY 23 year old daughter will Grad. with her masters next month, already has a great job.

My 19 year old daoughter goes off to Marine Boot camp Dec 8.

not all Gen Y are losers, every generation has people like your sec and brother.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:06:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
If kids in a family are not secure they seek different ways to express their individuality. Some choose to do well in school, others rebel and then there's a wide spectrum from military to priesthood etc.

Fractured families produce even less able parents as the generations progress. There are always exceptions but the pendulum still swings.



What's ironic is that I was the problem child that everyone thought would be dead or in jail by the time I was 21. I dressed like a freak, did drugs, got in fights, stole shit, got hassled by "the man" all the time, etc. My brother was the quiet nerd memorizing all sorts of useless trivia 'cause he found it fun. Now I'm moving up in a good carreer while he stagnates in a dead-end job.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:10:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TRW:
My three Gen Y stories:

I know the feeling. I had an 18 year old son that graduated from HS in 2002. He can barely read and his writing is, at best, 8th grade level. After HS, he was all set to just kick back at home, skateboard, and socialize with his gen Y friends. After about six months of him looking for a job and not finding one, I put a boot up his ass, metaphorically speaking, and told him to get a life. He joined the Army in Jan and is now 19 and in Iraq with the 4th ID and loves it.

My current 17 year old gen Y step-daughter was raised in a very sheltered and protected environment. She was overly protected by her mother who, in contrast, led a very unsheltered and sometimes hard life. She is big time into community theater and wants to study musical theater in college. She has an educational trust fund that will be worth about $80K dollars by the time she starts to use it next fall. She has this wide open opprotunity to go to a really good college and study a subject near and dear to her heart and she doesn't even have the motivation to sit down and do the admission applications. My wife is starting to stress because if she wants to start school next fall she better get her paperwork done now.

Family friends 17 year old gen Y daughter had it all worked out to get a full ROTC scholarship with room and board at a very nice College up the road in VT. All she has to do is get decent grades the rest of her senior year. What does she do? She fails economics. Now her scholarship is in jeopardy and her mother is so pissed she can't see straight.

Don't know what the hell is wrong with kids these days. Some are okay, some just don't seem to care about their futures and prefer to let things happen to them instead of taking charge and deciding their own fates.

We are not taught to take charge. We are not taught that it is okay to take charge. We are not taught that we should take charge. We are not taught that thinking rationally and reasoning is ideal. We are not taught that things happen because of careful planning and work. We are not taught that our purpose as human beings is to think and produce.

We are taught to let somebody else do it for us. We are taught that if it is supposed to happen, it will happen without our intervention. We are taught that we are supposed to follow our heart and not our mind. We are taught that feelings are superior to logic. We are taught that the successful people 'win life's lottery'. We are taught that it is okay to just try our best.

The voices to the contrary are shouted down and drowned out by the above.

Just a note from a formerly worthless loser
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:13:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:
there has to be a cutoff somewhere right?



no. when you were born doesn't really determine how hard working and ambitious you will be.

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:17:24 AM EDT
They are living their lives the way they chose to. So what's the problem?

A 22 year old "Woman" (Girl) shouldnt be worrying about anything more than what CD to play in her car on the way to the Gym. There will be plenty of time later to get a meaningless degree and pursue the almightly dollar.

She's going to live into her 80's, at least, why force her to grow up early?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:23:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 9:24:20 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
They are living their lives the way they chose to. So what's the problem?

A 22 year old "Woman" (Girl) shouldnt be worrying about anything more than what CD to play in her car on the way to the Gym. There will be plenty of time later to get a meaningless degree and pursue the almightly dollar.

She's going to live into her 80's, at least, why force her to grow up early?

Thank you...
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:52:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
They are living their lives the way they chose to. So what's the problem?

A 22 year old "Woman" (Girl) shouldnt be worrying about anything more than what CD to play in her car on the way to the Gym. There will be plenty of time later to get a meaningless degree and pursue the almightly dollar.

She's going to live into her 80's, at least, why force her to grow up early?



The problem is they bitch & complain about not having any money! Or make snide remarks about the fact that I have a couple of dollars to do something fun once in a while.

If it's so great being poor and shit, then they should shut the fuck up and be poor. And don't act like I got where I am because I won the lottery as doublefeed said. I had a plan, I adjusted when the plan wasn't working, and I succeeded. It has nothing to do with working hard or not, it has to do with having a plan. If you plan properly, you can achieve greatness without hard work. Of course, it does take some intelligence so.....
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:58:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
They are living their lives the way they chose to. So what's the problem?

A 22 year old "Woman" (Girl) shouldnt be worrying about anything more than what CD to play in her car on the way to the Gym. There will be plenty of time later to get a meaningless degree and pursue the almightly dollar.

She's going to live into her 80's, at least, why force her to grow up early?



The problem is they bitch & complain about not having any money! Or make snide remarks about the fact that I have a couple of dollars to do something fun once in a while.



Okay, that makes more sense. It appeared to me that you were complaining about their lifestyle choices. But now it's clear that it's their negative attitude that you find more distastefull than their lack of ambition.

I'm 32 and have achieved more than most people will in a lifetime. My advise to younger people is dont be in too big of a hurry to do anything.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:03:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TRW:
Family friends 17 year old gen Y daughter had it all worked out to get a full ROTC scholarship with room and board at a very nice College up the road in VT. All she has to do is get decent grades the rest of her senior year. What does she do? She fails economics. Now her scholarship is in jeopardy and her mother is so pissed she can't see straight.

Don't know what the hell is wrong with kids these days. Some are okay, some just don't seem to care about their futures and prefer to let things happen to them instead of taking charge and deciding their own fates.



that sounds exactly like me when i was 17,18,19. i'm smart (was then, too); had great grades in H.S.; but didn't know what i wanted to do. life sucked pretty hard. all this potential and "energy" yet nowhere to direct it. i already was Army Reserve, pissed away a full ride ROTC gig and ended up elinsting in the Navy. some years of armed forces and a college degree later, i'm running my own business. i found that the only way i could be "happy" is if i make all the decisions. buuuut, i think i'm A.D.D. based on what others who have been diagnosed late in life describe. back in the 80s, it wasn't in vogue to be ADD.

i say all generations of kids are the same. without proper motivation, it is too easy to remain "comfortable". if parents let the kids stay at home, there's no motivation to leave. i like how i read elsewhere here about go to school or start paying the ever increasing rent.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:08:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Okay, that makes more sense. It appeared to me that you were complaining about their lifestyle choices. But now it's clear that it's their negative attitude that you find more distastefull than their lack of ambition.



Actually, I can't stand people with a lack of ambition. That's a big part of it as well.

As far as hurrying up and growing up, nobody is saying that, but why not do something productive with your days while you're having fun at night?
My college years were fun as hell, and without the education I received (or the piece of paper, take your pick) I wouldn't be where I am now. I worked part time at a gunshop, which was awesome, and learned a ton of things both in and out of the classrooms. Not to mention having lots of nights out at bars having fun.

Having a goal and having fun are not mutually exclusive.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:12:16 AM EDT
Tell anyone who's eligible to join the military to go ahead and join the military. It's one of the very few true CAREERS WITH RETIREMENT that are still available, and it's not tough to get into the service.

If she's happy to be a secretary, she should join the Air Force (or other service) and go for administrative specialties.

Most "dead end" jobs have an equivalent in the service, but there, they're NOT dead end jobs.

If the person has a morbid fear of combat, he or she should stay out of the Marines and get into an admin MOS. Problem solved. The services DO have a need for rear echelon paper pushers, and if someone is willing to do that necessary task, more power to him.

CJ
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:22:42 PM EDT
The world needs ditch diggers too.

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 3:46:09 PM EDT
Who knows and to be perfectly honest who cares. I am doing fine now and as long as I am getting by then I really no longer care. I used to care but after getting stomped on for trying to help I gave up and don't think twice about it anymore.
Now don't get me wrong, I am all for and willing to help those who want it and are willing to try but for those who can't find the time or energy to do anything... screw them, they are a waste of time and effort.
If anyone (well, not just anyone but I digress) wants a helping hand and are willing to make a real effort I will help. But those who "just want a break". They can go find some other sucker to leach off of.

Damn, sometimes I really feel like a grumpy old man....
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 4:29:30 PM EDT

The world needs ditch diggers too


caddyshack
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:42:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:57:25 PM EDT
Hey, I'm 29 and I'm a complete looser! There are plenty of us around. I didn't make it past 1 year in college. I work full time at my dead-end job and pay my own way through life. I don't break the law. I don't mess with anyone else. Why do you care how I live my life? ______________________________________________ [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 11:11:30 PM EDT
its got nothing to do with generations or parents, in life there will always be winners and that means there has to be losers as well. its always been this way and will always be this way. and for some people it just takes them longer to figure out their life and where they fit in this world.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 2:40:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USPC40: Hey, I'm 29 and I'm a complete looser! There are plenty of us around. I didn't make it past 1 year in college. I work full time at my dead-end job and pay my own way through life. I don't break the law. I don't mess with anyone else. Why do you care how I live my life?
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As long as you keep your trap shut, don't whine about not having any money, don't begrudge me mine every chance you get, and keep your unmotivated ass away from me I [b]don't[b] care. We have lots of reasons we choose to associate with people or not associate with them. Some use race, some use financial standing, some use attractiveness, some use religion, most use personality. One big factor for me is whether or not you have any motivation. I find slugs boring personally.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 2:49:59 AM EDT
I'm a gen-Xer and have two bachelor degrees (BA-History, BS-Speech Education/Public Speaking). I pour concrete for a living. Heheheh.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 2:52:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By USPC40: Hey, I'm 29 and I'm a complete looser! There are plenty of us around. I didn't make it past 1 year in college. I work full time at my dead-end job and pay my own way through life. I don't break the law. I don't mess with anyone else. Why do you care how I live my life?
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As long as you keep your trap shut, don't whine about not having any money, don't begrudge me mine every chance you get, and keep your unmotivated ass away from me I [b]don't[b] care. We have lots of reasons we choose to associate with people or not associate with them. Some use race, some use financial standing, some use attractiveness, some use religion, most use personality. One big factor for me is whether or not you have any motivation. I find slugs boring personally.
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I know exactly what you mean! I don't associate with amoral assholes myself. [:D] ______________________________________________ [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:01:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: [ One big factor for me is whether or not you have any motivation. I find slugs boring personally.
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Oh crap, I guess we can't be buddies. I'm sitting here thinking of reasons not to do anything today. So far I have: It is too cold. I might get a chill. It is Monday. I have all week to do something. I did something last week. I might do something next week. If I goof around for a couple days I can knock off for Thanksgiving. Then take a long weekend. I'm pretty sure that makes me a slug but I think I'm a motivated slug. Or, maybe not.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:13:03 AM EDT
Fuck, I'm 32 and am working nights as a bar manager. Dropped out of college end of sophomore year, have as much direction as a degauss compass! The only thing that I do that is structured and at which I show potebtial is the military, USNR. Other than that I'm a waste IMO anyway. Gonna drag my ass back to college for spring semester and try to do something withmyself, I still have 30 years until I retire.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:31:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: They were raised by their parents.
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then explain how my brother and I can come from the same parents, same house, same everything, and wind up so differently? My secretary has two brothers (I think) both of whom have good jobs, with room for advancement. Her one brother worked his way up in the restaurant business and is a manager of something somewhere. No degree that I know of for him either.
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Sometimes its Nature NOT Nurture. only child, echo6
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 6:36:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand1911: its got nothing to do with generations or parents, in life there will always be winners and that means there has to be losers as well. its always been this way and will always be this way. and for some people it just takes them longer to figure out their life and where they fit in this world.
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I don't believe there HAS to be any losers. Life is not a zero sum game. Imagine what kind of a society we would be if everybody truly believed they could win, and worked as if they knew they were going to win. I won't elaborate. Just think of the industrial results of everybody busting ass, in their particular chosen skill [:)] (Then watch Star Trek, and place the date 300 years earlier [:D])
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 6:48:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: I don't believe there HAS to be any losers. Life is not a zero sum game. Imagine what kind of a society we would be if everybody truly believed they could win, and worked as if they knew they were going to win.
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I agree. If we in the USA lived up to our potential, the rest of the world would be kissing our feet. On a different note: If you work in a private industry, you get paid what you can negotiate.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 7:08:28 AM EDT
I love being a loser slug.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 7:11:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: What's ironic is that I was the problem child that everyone thought would be dead or in jail by the time I was 21. I dressed like a freak, did drugs, got in fights, stole shit, got hassled by "the man" all the time, etc. My brother was the quiet nerd memorizing all sorts of useless trivia 'cause he found it fun. Now I'm moving up in a good carreer while he stagnates in a dead-end job.
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Haha - me too! I was always the "problem" child, getting into trouble and blowing off the last year of high school, and my parents pretty much wrote me off. [nana]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 7:19:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: I love being a loser slug.
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I doubt this applies to you. If I remember from previous postings of yours, you've bought & sold property your whole life to get into the house you live in now, and if you sold it now it would be worth quite a chunk of change, and significantly more than you paid for it. That doesn't sound very slug-like to me. You're also in college (or school) at a higher-than-average age for school. This leads me to believe that you've been out in the world, found what it is you want to do, and are securing the education (or piece of paper to hear ar15fan tell it) to do it. Again, awefully un-slug-like.
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