I agree with this 100%

The track is a much safer place to be.

Do you know of any guys with broken bones from riding on a track? I only know a few road riders. Lots of dirt riders.

I know a few guys who have been injured on tracks. A few on the road who have been injured or dead. Lots on dirt.

ETA: When treating the streets like a track.

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Very apt statement.

I'm guessing you mean the MSF Basic course? Definitely take it. Well worth the little money it costs if anything.

I had ridden cruisers before I took the course and still learned even just from the Basic course.

I have been riding on the street for 14 years, well over 100k miles, usually canyon carving at risky speeds. I have crashed once, due to an oil spill. In a few thousand miles of track riding/racing I have crashed 5 times. I know I much prefer to crash at the track where there is runoff, no cars, and everyone is going the same direction.

Track is higher incident of accident but much safer place to crash.

generally anything dangerous has an airfence protecting it, no curbs, no cars, no guardrails.

I saw lots of wrecks at the track this year. only two ended up in the hospital... my brother he low sided at 80 around a corner and smashed the tip of his pinky almost lost it, and one woman who was a kick ass racer, going into a corner another racer accidentally made contact with her and she went straight into the air fences.. she fractured her spine but was walking around (good gear)

A lot of wrecks that were terrifying, then the guy was sitting in the pits piecing the bike back together, or in the stands, day over drinking a beer.

These same wrecks on the road would have been horrendous..

the other great thing about the track, the ambulance is 20 seconds away...

Track people are the best people you'll ever meet...

I picked up a bike I'm converting into a track day bike for next year.. nothing fancy or fast, just a solid little bike to learn fundamentals, a cbr300r (I wanted a KTM 390rc but the CBR was just too good a deal and has a large aftermarket)

I have no intent of riding on the street again. people are just too distracted..

Back to you OP now that I have sidetracked your thread. First bikes I could recommend...

SV650
Vstrom 650
KLR 650
DR650
Sportster with mid controls(though you will be cramped)
Triumph Bonneville 900
BMW 650gs

Any of these would be great and many long time riders including me love them as well.

The scout I am sure is a fine choice as well but much, much more expensive for a first bike.

I am not discouraging it at all. I am sure it is awesome and the folks doing it are great.

But, I know probably 20-30 regular street riders. Do you know how many wrecked in the last year? None. Last two years? None. Last three? Me certainly no cracked spines. I should mention I wear good gear with armor as well.

I started out on the street and survived with merely a broken toe while yahoo-ing a POS Harley. My first bike was a GSX-R 600 at age 18.

Then I rode track. Dedicated track bikes and double duty streetbikes. Two crashes in a few years. Walked/rode away from the first low speed. Broke a finger and destroyed my bike in the second.

Started riding dirt a lot around 30. 10 years without injuries. Then I broke my collarbone and subsequently my femur, pelvis and wrist shortly thereafter. (See my thread from two days ago).

I like riding a lot, but there's a good chance, at 40, that I'll never run well again. Then again, I have a lot of good stories. I guess my advice all depends upon how you want to go into your later years.

These are all good choices.

My girlfriend is going to teach me to ride next summer.  We have an agreement, she teaches me to ride, I teach her to shoot!

Fuck yeah! Sounds like a great exchange

At your height a rebel will feel ridiculous. But it’ll get you through the class. Just don’t assume that since you rode a rebel, cruisers are uncomfortable.

A couple bikes I’m not seeing on here:

Honda NC700X
Honda cbr500

Non-threatening engines, reasonable seat height, great mpgs, should be able to find one used.

Wait so you export components to China for their manufacturers to use?!?? That's about the craziest thing I ever heard

Your product and/or marketing must kick ass. WINNING!

And?

“Per miles ridden.”

I know my fair share of people injured or killed while on two wheels.

Most of the accidents happened in a controlled environment.

Look at Janus Motorcycles

i mean, they look kinda cool. but i don't think i want a completely unknown bike as my first. kinda want to stick to the well established in america brands.

Check with your insurance regarding the CB 500 series.  When I got my CB500F Allstate treated it like it was a sport bike.  That first year of insurance stung since I was a new rider.  One of the influencers that made me trade up to the VStrom.  The extra HP and better seating arrangement did not hurt either.

With any new rider, it would be a good idea to talk with your provider to see what kind of bikes are cheaper to insure and which ones will cost you bundles.

Some of this has to do with bar and seat position in relation to foot position.  I prefer the seating position of my SDR, but it's undoubtedly not as comfortable over the long haul as my Tiger.  The Tiger i can ride 3 or 4 hours before i start feeling it, the SDR it's about an hour and a half and then i've got to stretch my legs.  I prefer the seating position of the SDR because of how it feels and helps the bike handle, but it's not as long ride conducive.  This is why cruisers are very popular, but i also go back to why i like the SDR so much.  The seating position feels "right", for lack of a better word, even if it's not as long term comfortable.

Don't discount getting a small ADV bike.  They're a bit top heavy, but if you've got longer legs it's not as much of an issue, they typically have a lot of room to stretch out in, have really comfortable suspension with decent handling.

At the end of the day, get what makes you feel comfortable, because if you're concentrating on what you don't like about the bike you just bought, you're not concentrating on learning how to ride and more importantly, having fun.

Throw an old Ducati Monster in that list and you've nailed it.  Just stay away from the S4, S4R, S4RS models as a first bike Op.  
The regular air cooled Monsters are great.  Super easy to work on, last forever, and I really really really wish I didnt sell my S2R1000.

Here's some terrible photos of mine lol

Dont do it.

Its not worth it.

pretty, how is the riding position?

they're pretty relaxed.

my first bike was a M695.

my insurance considered it a standard and not a sport bike.

good torque down low and light weight, they're pretty easy to learn on.

Definitely want to check with your insurance on the bikes though, OP. My insurance considered a Tiger 800 a sport bike which it most definitely is not but my R1200gs is not despite having much more power. It's like politicians talking about firearms.

i will. not gonna lie, the ducati monster made my short list. if i can find one in "first bike" price range

looks like some of them are

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2000-Ducati-MONSTER-900-5005073772

Speaking of insurance; liability only will be much cheaper than having full coverage of course.  So it's more economical to buy a costly-to-insure bike outright, so you don't have to take a motorcycle loan and thus have to carry full insurance coverage.

About sums it up.... However, nowadays its not worth the risk in South Florida.

Exactly this.  The handlebars are wider than a crotch rocket, and more upright, Ive spent many back to back hours on it and it was a joy.  and like AgeOne said, the insurance on them isnt pricey. Even my S2R1000 was considered a standard which was nice.  
Being new and these being light weight, could be considered another benefit. Even after years of riding I slipped in my garage coming to a stop. (put my foot down on something slippery, bike and me on it tipped over )   Less annoying picking up a bike that weighs under 400 lbs, than some of those Harley's  lol

FWIW when I was young enough for insurance to care about my age State Farm didn't categorize bikes by type, just displacement.

It's been a while no clue now...

If you buy one and start it up, it's not broken or falling apart, honest.  All those sounds are normal.

Everyone is different, but I'd encourage you to not spend too much on a first bike, nor get attached to it.  I kept my first bike (Yamaha FZ6) for a little over a month

Just like guns, or other hobbies you will develop preferences your not even aware of right now.  Get riding, and get practicing the things you learned at MSF without dumping too much money.

I think its common to get in a rush and want to learn everything right away...I know I wanted to.  But being mature enough to realize that time and miles (practicing the right things, not how to look cool for chicks) are whats going to get you there, and helps you enjoy this awesome hobby the right way.

Its sad when I hear stories of someone getting into motorcycling and either buying way too much bike, being scared while trying to learn, losing their ass when they sell it, or god forbid crash and hurt themselves.

I swear I watched motorcycle crash videos for a week straight when I started riding

clutch rattle is music.

the M695 and later had wet clutches though

for not a whole hell of a lot more he can have a 2nd gen M696.. the dry clutch sounds cooler but the wet clutch is better and its a slipper clutch.

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2009-Ducati-Monster-696-5005130032

edit: I also wanna say the 696 had more power then the old 900..

I cant believe i forgot to ask this question until now. do the classes give you loaner helmet? or do i need to bring gear to the class?

Wow, I'm pushing it to get ~4,000 miles a set, Busa, V-Strom 1000, doesn't matter.  Knobbies never last more than a season either.

My first bike was a Yamaha XT350 back in 1995ish, while I was on active duty.  Our office had a good relationship with the base DRMO and when I was poking around one day I spotted a cammo/black dirtbike leaning against the dumpster out back.  I asked and was told it had belonged to the resident Combat Controllers and they had dropped it off without any paperwork.  Since they couldn't determine that it was bought with AF money they couldn't DRMO it out, so the plan was to heft it into the dumpster.  Instead we hefted it into my truck.

I knew absolutely nothing about motorcycles but had rebuilt some side-draft carbs in an old Triumph TR-4A, and the one on the bike looked pretty much the same.  After one short fire, I got it to start somewhat reliably.  That's kick-start BTW.  So even though I was on alert, I would put on my flight helmet and ride it to a big empty lot next to an industrial park about a half mile from my house.  One day I noticed another dirt bike rider and he, like me, was wearing two pagers in a leather holster.  Turns out he was on one of the other alert crews, and after he adjusted the clutch and gave me some pointers, I was riding and even jumping it.  The trick was to never let it stall, because once it was hot it took 20 mins of kicking to get it to restart (and I had a 30 min response time on alert....).  I started carrying a can of starting fluid to help with that.

One day I got brave and decided to see where the narrow trail on the other side of the road at the far end of the lot went.  I started down but was getting very worried because it was NOT a dirt bike trail, but something the kids used on their bicycles.  Just when I thought I was totally screwed it opened up to reveal some residential neighborhood.  There was plenty of room to get turned around BUT I first had to cross a very deep drainage ditch.  I ginned up my courage and went down one side carrying just enough smash to get back up the other without too much wheel spin.  Perfect.... except I managed to get tangled up in the support wire for the phone pole.  Fall, stall, pick up the bike, kick, kick, kick, spray some ether, kick, back in business.

Once turned around I had only to repeat the process through the ditch and hit the narrow trail on the far side.  This time I psyched myself out and to make the long story short, ended up in 6" of water at the bottom of the ditch, stuck under the bike.  Did I mention that now I'm at least 45 mins from the base, or that it was a typical Charleston 90°F and 95% humidity?  Please pagers, do not go off right now....  After a lot of uh... consternation... I managed to get back to the road that ran through the industrial park.  Instead of riding back through the empty lot I decided to speed-run it straight back down the road so I could get home and rehydrate, and about a half mile from home the engine quit- like dead.  I pushed it all the way home and sold it for $100.  The guy told me later he had to replace the magneto.

Fast forward about 30 years and I picked up another XT350 and relearned to ride.  I was now a civilian and was required to take the bike safety course which was free on Keyport (WA) so every morning for a week in March I rode that bike in the cold rain for the course.  Everyone else in the class used the loaner bikes which looked all nice and new, and there I was on my big ugly enduro.  I was the only one in the class that could turn the bike around inside the box though!  About six months later I sold it because work was planning to PCS me to a different office.

Last year through a series of events I decided to get a bike for commuting.  I looked through craigslist trying to find something in the 650cc ballpark that wasn't too expensive.  Motorcycles have changed a LOT since the last time I rode one!  After a few false starts I noticed a bike I thought looked cool, but had never heard of.  I'm not a cruiser guy, not into the sportbike thing, so I was looking for something like a KLR, V-strom, or similar.  What I found was a Honda NC700X- which I had never heard of.  More on-road than I was wanting, but then again there really isn't anywhere to offroad nearby and I wanted it for commuting anyway.  It was a 2012 with 1250 miles on it, and the guy wanted $5K for the bike and accessories.  I decided to low-ball him a little because I didn't want ALL the accessories, so I offered him $4K for the bike and everything but the helmets (w/Bluetooth) and the GPS (I know my way to work).  He accepted.

He bought it new in 2013 and after all his payments had right at $10K into the bike.  He also put on $3,800 or more in accessories on the bike, so I got it for a song.

So I had a great summer relearning (3rd time) to ride.  I love the bike, and 60+MPG is nice.  It's not a screamer- not designed to be, but it gets me where I want to go plenty fast enough for me.  I'll post up some pictures later.

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Good friend of mine started riding when he was 30. He rode for about a year.

Then he was struck and killed while riding.

Left behind a wife and young child.

True story.

This....assume everyone trying to kill you...never ride next to a vehicle if you can help it either back off or get past them they will come over it’s just a matter of when. When sitting at red light leave yourself an escape and watch your mirrors. When approaching an intersection hang back from the car in front of you so the people turning can see you.....lots of tips here pay attention and learn from others

Loud pipes_Save lives

Too Loud?
Too Bad!!

I've never had a Ducati or a dry clutch, but i definitely agree they sound great.  We're probably in the minority, but a Ducati with a dry clutch with an open cover.... you're right, it's music.  Different, but music.

"Loud pipes save lives"

Only hardly riders actually believe that, in a useless attempt to validate their retarded open pipes.

Yes, they will provide a loaner helmet.

Your local MSF course provider should have a list of what they require you to have.  In my case it was long sleeves, gloves and boots that covered your ankles.  No requirement for them to be motorcycle specific (IE armored)

I brought my own helmet because a well fitted helmet is worth it's weight in gold if you've got it strapped on for hours.  Not necessarily suggesting you do that, because you may get on the bike and decide "fuck this, i don't like it".  I've not met anyone who had that reaction, though, it's usually "holy shit, why didn't i do this sooner???"  (That was certainly my reaction)

What i would recommend, which has been stated in this thread before, is ATGATT, Take it to heart.  You dress for the fall, not for the ride.  Don't skimp on gear.   You don't have to spend $2k on a Klim suit, but be prepared to spend anywhere from $500 to $1k for gear, the higher the budget, the better.  There's nothing worse (i learned this the hard way) then buying a cheap pair of gloves and getting a blister an hour into a ride.  It fucking sucks.  When it comes to motorcycle gear, you get what you pay for.  Not necessarily in lack of protection (though really cheap stuff sucks at this too) but typically more in longevity and comfort.

You don't need to buy a $700 Arai and $500 Sidi Adventure II's.  That said, that $50 Ebay helmet paired with $50 gloves is a cash grab scheme looking to part a fool from his money and little else.  Find what you can afford somewhere in between.  Revzilla is your friend.  They have great video reviews and they'll tell you what's bad about stuff too.

Watch body language too.  You can almost predict what a driver is about to do by watching his head movements.  Same thing applies when driving a car.

So the short list for starter bikes to look for when i am ready to buy are

250 ninja (naked)
ducati monster
used scout
beater cruiser
HD883 of some variant

thoughts?

Get your own helmet.  Most MSF classes have loaner helmets.  But I guarantee you that you don't want to wear a helmet that dozens of people have worn for 2 days a pop on hot summer days.  (Especially, if you are talking about a full face helmet.)

Otherwise, you just need over the ankle boots, long pants, long sleeve shirt or a jacket, and gloves.  You should also bring rain gear, you will ride rain or shine and you can't really plan on having great weather for your class.

May want to add the Honda CTX700 or the N variant.  These bikes are cruiser like with modern features.  They are newbie friendly and are decent on the highway.  They also get awesome fuel mileage.  Used examples are fairly cheap.

No sense in getting the Ninja 250, the 300 is a much better bike and can be found on the used market.  For a full-size male rider, you are better off getting at least a 500cc engine.  The smaller bikes are great for women and smaller riders, but they get cramped real quick.  Keep in mind that most of them are designed around the ergo's for an Asian rider.

Check out the cycle ergo site and put in your measurements, you can get a decent idea for the seating position of various bikes that you may be interested in.

http://cycle-ergo.com