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Posted: 11/22/2003 10:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 11:02:30 AM EDT by cluster]
www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/11/22/georgia.protests/index.html

saw on the news the parlament just overflowed with people <subjects> ..



should we be taking notes for when its our turn..?

so far non violent and no shots fired I believe


actually it smells of a demonstration to me .. that the media is selling as a "coup"

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 10:57:30 AM EDT
Whats a demesdration?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:01:56 AM EDT
opps :)
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:03:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
opps :)



Shouldn't that be "oops?"
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:17:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sherm8404:

Originally Posted By cluster:
opps :)



Shouldn't that be "oops?"



nope I meant that one.. :)

what no comments on the story...?


Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:32:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rparr28922:
burn the place down, It's time for the poor and middle class to take the power away from all the rich drunk bastards. Like the goverment does any good besides wastes billion's of dollars on iraq and mispays most of are troops.



Yet another educated, articulate poster.

Looks a bit more like a demonstration than anything else. People wanted change...
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:46:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 11:53:49 AM EDT by DzlBenz]
Georgia is certainly on the brink of civil war. The existing Shevarnadze government has been working diligently in recent months to secure very lucrative gas and oil contracts, both with neighboring states and the export market. The gas and oil investors and speculators will now shy away from Georgia until the political crisis is solved - one way or another. Zurab Zhvania and Mikhail Saakashvili have both openly expressed that they will accept nothing less than Shevarnadze's resignation, and no doubt that of any of his supporters in Parliament. Russia has dispatched their Foreign Minister to Georgia, and it will be interesting, to say the least, to see what develops out of that venture. If Russia turns its favor toward Revival Union, the opposition party the Shevarnadze has had some success in working with, then we could see a compromise in which Aslan Abashhidze is more or less "installed" as President. While this may be popular in the Ajarian region, certain other tribal factions may still oppose the move, and the country could disintegrate into a number of regional groups fighting each other for stakes in whatever remains. A civil war in the Caucasus states could make the Balkans look like a rugby scrum, in my opinion. There are nuclear-capable forces that could be threatened by prolonged instability in the region, not the least significant of which is Ukraine. Ukraine could join a pitched battle between any two particular factions on the side of the one that would afford the greatest public support upon a decisive victory. I would think that we could have a shooting war in the Caucasus before the end of this winter. I certainly hope hot, but it's possible. I hope that Putin's new strategy guy, Anatoly Kvashnin, can be a voice of restraint, but the guy smacks more than a little of Andropov. Delicate days, indeed.

Edited to clarify that although Ukraine itself is not really in the Caucasus, the fact that it is a nuclear-capable state with clear interest in the Black Sea, make it the foremost third-party concern with regard to a Georgian melt-down. I would not concern myself too much with the effect of Armenia or Azerbaijan, insofar as they cannot afford to project any type of force beyond their own tenuous grasp on stability. Iran, I think, will stay out of this one, unless Russia acts with force inside Georgian borders, which will no doubt threaten Iran's interests directly. Turkey is ideally placed to serve as a staging ground for US intervention, by the way. We may be in this one yet.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:23:49 PM EDT
Somewhat shameless btt, but this is an important story. We are seeing, live, the collapse of a democratically-elected regime. This is the will of (some of) the people. By "some of", I mean the ones who care enough about their country to take up the revolt. Could it happen here? Doubtful. Americans (myself included, on most days) are generally too self-absorbed to put any energy into actually being the ones to effect change.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:47:51 PM EDT
Whole story on the Beeb.


Georgia in political turmoil
Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze has declared a state of emergency after the opposition seized the parliament building and his presidential offices.
He said he would not resign over what he described as an attempted coup.

The move came after weeks of protests over disputed elections won by Mr Shevardnadze and his allies.

Nino Burjanadze, outgoing speaker of parliament, says she has become interim president of the ex-Soviet state - adding to the political confusion.

Saturday's dramatic developments began when thousands of people led by main opposition leader Mikhail Saakashvili stormed the parliament building in the capital Tbilisi.


Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:07:54 PM EDT
so ..
we have one prez that says .. screw you im the prez.
we have one lady that says " I declare myself prez"

that by my count makes two..

so as of right now who is the prez.. and was it legal for this "Nino Burjanadze" to declare herself prez.

so basicly this is was what people believed to be a rigged election and after weeks of protesting with no results... they are finaly geting hands on..

but I dont see a military backing of any sort for the people so I see a prison term for the revolt leaders when this clears up.



Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:14:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By Rparr28922:
burn the place down, It's time for the poor and middle class to take the power away from all the rich drunk bastards. Like the goverment does any good besides wastes billion's of dollars on iraq and mispays most of are troops.



Yet another educated, articulate poster.

Looks a bit more like a demonstration than anything else. People wanted change...




He deleted it, lokt, so I will use your post to note how much he sounds like a good, socialist, DU komrade. He also sucks with spelling.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:15:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
but I dont see a military backing of any sort for the people so I see a prison term for the revolt leaders when this clears up.



Well, that all depends on where the symapthy lies with the eventual new government. This is a keen example of a true constitutional crisis that we are seeing, live, unfolding in Georgia. If a movement with sympathies more in line with the likes of sakaashvili is ultimately in power, then the sparks of the current discord will be hoisted as national heroes. If, however, the compromise position that I forwarded in which Abashhidze is installed, especially if supported (read "puppeted") by Moscow, then to be sure there will be swift and unmitigated retribution against the the present opposition. All bets are off once blood runs in the streets of Tblisi, though. No one will remember how it started, only how it finished. Such is the legacy of the Soviets. Funny, though, how there is a growing movement of romantic Communism springing up in some of the former Soviet states.
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