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Posted: 11/22/2003 10:52:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 1:01:38 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:00:10 AM EDT
This is the reason I don't shop at WALLY WORLD, Babe!
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:10:16 AM EDT
That's why I am actually somewhat glad about the weakness in the dollar.

IMO, this is one of the main (and sometimes overlooked) reasons for our growing trade deficit, at least in certain sectors. The dollar, up until recently was so highly valued that it was hard for american companies to compete price wise. If the dollar goes down, americans can't buy as much for their dollar from other countries, so american companies can compete easier.

There is also the aspect of cheap labor, but that is more of a factor in the less skilled sectors, like clothing and stuff. In the higher skilled sectors I think the exchange rate is as important if not more important than cheap labor..
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:16:16 AM EDT
How do you think American labor unions and the extreme environmental restrictions play into this issue?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:25:24 AM EDT

Sorry I tripped over the threshold when I came in SA. I thought you might be selling $79 RRA receivers!
I'll leave now...
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:35:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
This is the reason I don't shop at WALLY WORLD, Babe!




Guys that say "I don't shop at such and such" Dont get it!

It is not who you buy from, It is who can get the product into your hands for the least amount of $$$$. Until the United States can cut the cost of "Fuel" (electricity, Energy,manpower,ect.) whatever you want to call it, We will not be able to keep up with the Turd world guys that can.

What this place is going to need is a huge re-work from the top down. We need to start getting guys back into the factory, so they can feed the family, and put some dollars back into the system. But with "Fuel" at such a high cost, It is not worth it for anyone to open a factory.(Thank you Unions, Electrical Co., and dirty Govt)

Besides Styer nailed it on the head.....Made in the U.S.A. is starting to mean..."This product is a P.O.S. also", they dont back up the quality (or lack of) and just like every other LAZY American...They could give a shit about me after I pay for the thing.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:42:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:02:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 12:03:50 PM EDT by Raynor_Schiene]
Why would I want to buy an $8.00 hammer when I can buy a $5.00 one? Why would I want to buy anything for more money if I could get it for less? Steyr, your logic (noble as it may sound), is weak.

1. There will always be a Dave's Hardware, and there will always be a Wal-Mart. That's the luxury of Capitalism.
2. Someone might just come along and bump Wal-Mart from the top. That's the luxury of Capitalism.
3. In a Capitalist system businesses have the (I use the word again), luxury of pricing items as they see fit.
4. Higher prices does NOT neccessarily mean better quality. (look at the auto industry during the 60's and 70's).
5. If lower prices means lower wages, then ecerything else will follow suit. Housing prices will come down. Auto prices will come down, etc.
6. But with our great economic system none of the things mentioned in #5 has decreased in price!

I shop at Wal-Mart for auto items and some minor electronic junk. I NEVER buy my clothes from them. Which takes me to #7

7. Wal-Mart typically is an outlet for the less affluent and those seeking cheaper prices. But, a lot of people still use other retailers for their everyday items.

Basically what I'm saying is Capitalism is alive ansd well. And I for one love this economic system. Why? Because I have the choice of where and how much I choose to pay for anything I want.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:06:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
How do you think American labor unions and the extreme environmental restrictions play into this issue?



Seeing how labor unions represent less than 13% of the work force, very little.

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:20:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
Why would I want to buy an $8.00 hammer when I can buy a $5.00 one? Why would I want to buy anything for more money if I could get it for less? Steyr, your logic (noble as it may sound), is weak.

1. There will always be a Dave's Hardware, and there will always be a Wal-Mart. That's the luxury of Capitalism.



No - WalMart can undercut Dave's prices because of economies of scale and scope, and drive Dave out of business.

It's your understanding of economics that's weak, not Steyr's logic.



2. Someone might just come along and bump Wal-Mart from the top. That's the luxury of Capitalism.



Yes, but NOT Dave's hardware, but some company with even better cost structures - that can then pay even LOWER wages than WalMart once they have crushed them.

Take a samll town that used to have a Dave's Hardware store. KMart came in, and drove Dave out of business with lower prices - now Dave is a cashier at KMArt earning a low wage, and Dave's wife now also has to work as a stocker at Kmart. Once WalMart comes into town and kills off KMart, and becomes the only game in town, it is NOT going to help Dave and his wife, and is certainly not going to make them start up Dave's Harware store again.

Sure, someone might knock off WalMart, but it woudl just be a bigger and more efficient version of WalMart



3. In a Capitalist system businesses have the (I use the word again), luxury of pricing items as they see fit.



No. businesses price product based on the intersection of the supply and demand curves for that product. you are correct that they choose whether or not they want to go out of business, but pricing is based on what the market can bear.



4. Higher prices does NOT neccessarily mean better quality. (look at the auto industry during the 60's and 70's).



Explain please? Cars were cheap, and they were crap. Looks like a correlation to me.



5. If lower prices means lower wages, then ecerything else will follow suit. Housing prices will come down. Auto prices will come down, etc.



You're somewhat correct in that, since lower wages will reduce demand, and may reduce the cost of manufacturing cars (for example) but it really is much more complicated than that



6. But with our great economic system none of the things mentioned in #5 has decreased in price!



Uhm - there are plenty of example of housing bubble that have burst, and housing values and prices have dropped. Stay tuned - several local markets in the U.S. are ripe for this very thing in the near future.

If you look at REAL wages (corrected for inflation), many middle-class and working-class occupations have seen wages drop over the last decade.

Look at car prices this year. There are so many incentives being offered by manufacturers to try to maintain sales, that the real price of a new car has dropped lower than two years ago.



I shop at Wal-Mart for auto items and some minor electronic junk. I NEVER buy my clothes from them. Which takes me to #7

7. Wal-Mart typically is an outlet for the less affluent and those seeking cheaper prices. But, a lot of people still use other retailers for their everyday items.



You are correct that specialty stores will absoutely survive that pander to the more wealthy part of society. ultimately, many of them will see the benefits of economies and scale and you will see mergers among retailers like Pottery Barn and Williams and Sonoma, but because branding is much more popular, then will maintain the fiction of being separate entities. This is quite common.



Basically what I'm saying is Capitalism is alive ansd well. And I for one love this economic system. Why? Because I have the choice of where and how much I choose to pay for anything I want.



That's exactly Steyr's point. The increased information and choice available to the avergae consumer drives down price - and the indirect effect of that is a long-term lowering of wages.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:38:23 PM EDT

That's exactly Steyr's point. The increased information and choice available to the avergae consumer drives down price - and the indirect effect of that is a long-term lowering of wages.


You make valid counter points. However, my wages have never gone down. Only up!

If we truly want to find the culprit of the economic downturn, look no further than the feminist movement. What use to buy a home and a car now requires two wages!
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:44:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:54:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 12:56:35 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 12:58:52 PM EDT


Steyr - if you really need a hammer, you can borrow one of mine.




Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:02:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:05:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:05:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 1:08:38 PM EDT by Raynor_Schiene]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
You are a idiot.



Nice! Rather than having a mature, intelligent conversation, you take the low road and start with the name calling. That's the first sign that the person trying to push his idea, is of a lower class.

BTW - When following a vowel with a vowel, proper sentence structure requires a consonant.
Example: An idiot. Not a idiot.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:11:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:15:05 PM EDT
Great post Steyr!

Some of these people won't understand until it's too late. Just wait until you have to shop at Korea-Mart or China-Mart, companies that own the manufacturing, shipping, distribution, AND retail arm of their business. There may be some competition from Mexi-Mart, but mom and pop will be out of the picture.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:15:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:16:40 PM EDT
It's Dave and Dave's fault only if the best he can do is get a job at Wal-Mart. If Dave wants better wages, Dave can go to school at night and get a degree. Don't blame Wal-Mart for Dave's lack of skills.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:17:38 PM EDT
Evolve or die is not only a law of nature but a law of economics too.

Mongomery Wards is no longer but J.C. Pennys and Sears continue on (selling goods made in China).

I use to fix CB radios, then televisions, then VCR's, then television studios ... now television satellite broadcast centers. I started out analog and now run digital. Evolution is a bitch and the day where you could master one skill and ride it for the rest of your days is coming to an end (save for brick layers, lawyers, whores, doctors and other labor guilds).
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:20:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:21:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 1:22:12 PM EDT by wetidlerjr]

Originally Posted By WholesaleHunter:

Originally Posted By WholesaleHunter:
Umm, what's the subject again? I think I got off track.



Oh, right. We were discussing hammers.

Hammers & Duct Tape. If it's loose, use duct tape. If it's tight, use a hammer.

What a world...



I love "hammer mechanics"!


Edited to be edited
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:24:44 PM EDT
The "Sky is falling, the sky is falling" has been around for a long time. Take a look around and see some of the wages people make. Plumbers typically make $20 or better an hour. (by the way, they too shop at Wal-Mart). Electricians make a great wage. (ditto the Wal-Mart thing for them too).

Wal-Mart simply makes it easier and less expensive for people to buy their everyday, and not so everyday needs - batteries, auto accessories, food, household items, toiletries, etc. Wal-Mart has never caused me to lose my job. Also, when one opens up in your town think of the money it generates in sales tax for that particular city! And, that city's money stays in that city, rather than the citizens having to travel to another town to spend their money there.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:29:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
What I am saying is Capitalism has a gun pointed to it's head and guys like you are pulling the trigger. Global capitalism will indeed survive. 3rd World Nations will eventually dominate the market.



Are you then suggesting that the 3rd world will be able to sustain the system that gives them an advantage?

I believe that the forces that prevent us form competing will act upon the 3rd world and right the ship so to speak. If I am not mistaken the european union has been considering more and more poor countries for just this reason. The countries that were poor, and could produce cheap labor and services became richer, and therefore more expensive to deal with.

In a true market economy, be it national or world wide, would it not regulate itself to eliminate advantage?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:30:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:

That's exactly Steyr's point. The increased information and choice available to the avergae consumer drives down price - and the indirect effect of that is a long-term lowering of wages.


You make valid counter points. However, my wages have never gone down. Only up!



The question is, has it gone up at the rate of inflation or higher? Are you making the same, more or less relatively to what you made before? I work in the trucking industry. Freight rates have not gone up in the last 25 years. Costs of equipment, fuel and insurance have. So, drivers pay has remained stationary. One of my neighbors raised a family, owns several cars, a boat, 2 houses all on his drivers pay. I barely make ends meet. Just wait until after January 4th. The Hours of service regulations will change and the consumer and the driver will be the ones suffer. I am looking at a 40% reduction in productivity. Not because my truck will be any slower. Not because I will be too tired to drive 40% sooner. Not because I am physically unable to complete the same run I am making now. But because some pencil pusher thinks he knows me better than I know me. Wal Mart is looking at adding 2000 trucks and many more drivers than that. Several of the larger companies are talking about going 100% team operations (2 drivers per truck). Who will be paying for all of that? The consumer. But, the drivers themselves will see only deficit from it because their individual production will decline. We are paid by how many miles we drive. Every time some pencil pusher comes up with a new restriction on us, they are taking food off our families table. States with split speed limits or lane restrictions (MI and GA for example) that force us to keep dodging idiots that want to race for the exit and then slam on the brakes cost us production and therefor money. Also, courtesy of the Dems and NAFTA, the mexicans will be driving their junk equipment (they are currently bulk buying trucks in the US that are too worn out for any one else to want) to set up their fleets. So, you will see at least 50% more trucks on the highway and many of those will be unsafe. Have fun. I think I will move to Japan.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:35:35 PM EDT
One of the things many are missing here is the manufacturing aspect of globalization. In the past, an employee was an asset to a company, now that Dave has gone to night classes and received his degree in bean counting, he sees the employee as a liability.

Dave wants to lower the cost of the product, so off to the Pacific Rim he goes. This puts stateside labor out of a job. Now Joe has less money to spend, so he shops cheaper. The cycle continues. Soon, the only people working are the tradespersons, retail, and a few miscellaneous others.

The retail sector is dominated by World-Mart, and what mom and pop places that exist, sell the same stuff World-Mart sells with maybe a little value added extra.

No matter how you want to look at it, we don't stand much of a chance.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:39:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScrubJ:
No matter how you want to look at it, we don't stand much of a chance.



Really? And Capitalism has prospered for how long in America?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:01:36 PM EDT
Higher wages mean higher prices. If you pay a union burger flipper $20/hr how many burgers do you have to sell to make a profit when McDonalds is paying $7/hr to flippers? with the all the other production costs being equal?

Especially when the customers aren't coming in because they don't want to pay 3-8 times as much for a burger?

Explain why you think people are going to want to pay higher prices? They want value for their $$

Baja Fresh (chain) has Soft Tacos @ $3.50, Taco Bell at $1.50, El Camino Real @ $2.50. Baja Fresh and El Camino are almost identical (probably a toss-up as far as taste and quality), Taco Bell is out of running, tortillas are the same, the meat is not fresh, it's reconstituted ground beef, poor seasonings, etc.

Who should I give my money to?

Same thing with cars, food, clothing. Now BF is in my City, and ECR is about the same distance but in the next city. Well the location, other items factor in to my decision in addition to cost. Now assume that one of the cities mandates a "living" wage which drives the ECR or BF price to $5.00 for a soft taco. Do I go to the expensive one or the chep one? Who goes out of business? They may pay living wages but if you lose your customers and business it doesn't matter does it?

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:13:43 PM EDT
Dammit! I'll have you know my hammer actually WAS made in the USA. Damn fine hammer it is, too. Wasn't cheap, either. Dadgumed internet experts ragging on my hammer. Haven't even SEEN my hammer!

Or were hammers not the point?

Good article though Steyr. I guess my question would be what are we supposed to DO about the situation? There isn't a hell of a lot made in the US anymore and, as you said, that which is is no longer all that superior in quality. I have some t-shirts made in the US, but they don't seem all that much better than its counterpart made in outer Sloobavistan. More importantly, try convincing the sheep that they should spend more for any product for which a less expensive alternative exists. Hell, I'm guilty of it too. My hammer was made in the US. So was my drill press. Actually, it was "assembled in the US from foreign parts", so I dunno what that counts as. The bits I use in it, however, are foreign made. Why? They were cheap, available (Couldn't locate a set that was anything other than fractional around wehre I live and I needed a letter and number set)and *high enough* quality to do what I need them to.

It's a subject I think about a great deal, but I rarely come up with any answers.

Cpt. Redleg
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:22:52 PM EDT
Raynor, I don't mean to imply that capitalism will fail, but the face of it will change a lot. Where does the profit go? I am in the repair business, when was the last time you took a toaster in for repair? Once the product cost drops below its value, the product becomes a throw away. Shop around, and you can probably pick up a toaster for $10.00. Yup some Americans make their wages at Mega-Mart. Truckers transported the item, but where did the profit really go? Who made the "big" money? China could be called capitalistic by the making of a profit on the sale, but what did it do for our econony?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:28:13 PM EDT
Good post Steyr.

Watching Dobbs the other night,he said 13% of all ChiCom goods sent to this country go threw Walmart.

They employ about 1 million workers that average $8-10 and hour.

They already sell more cloths,groceries and toys than any other outfit in this country.

Thing about Walmart's prices is that they aren't cheap just because of a better business plan.

They're employees make so little and the health coverage they offer is so expensive that they activly encourage their employees to sign up for medicare and/or state run health plans.Which basically amounts to a taxpayer subsidy.

As far as a the tax revenue the community recieves from hosting one of these places.There's a city up here that's debating rezoning to let Walmart in......They promised the kingly sum of $500,000 a year in sales tax.

They looked at a couplea other similar sized cities in the state that recently opened Walmart and both these cities have ended up spending millions on traffic improvements after the fact,because WM drastically underestimated the volume of traffic in their pre-operation studies.....so it's a net loss.

They also found that business would mostly come from in town,diverting customers from current businesses,including a dead mall that they have just begun to revitalize after years stagnation.

Fact is in your scenario most will be working poor and be shopping at Walmart because that's the only place they'll ever be able to afford to go.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:29:05 PM EDT

Enter the internet.



As soon as the third world realizes they can 'direct market' their products on the internet crappy ahmmers are only gonna cost $2.50 + s/h. In reality they will probably price gouge us for $3.50 + s/h and nobody is gonna wanna pay Wal Mart ripoff prices of $6.50.




Sorry, but that isn't going to happen, it's just not they way big companies do business. "Taiwan hammers inc" isn't going to want to HOPE to sell 32 million hammers INDIVIDUALLY, when they are guaranteed to sell the same 32 million hammers to Wal Mart for a slightly lower price and get their money all at once. If you think "Taiwan hammers inc" want to cash 32 million $2.50 checks you're crazy. It would be a shipping nightmare for them at best, and they wouldn't sell nearly the volume of "hammers" they could dealing with just one large US company.

Secondly, shipping items from overseas is not cheap. Shipping is going to cost the buyer more than the "hammer", and guess where they'll head? Right back to Wal Mart. Only now Wal Mart has struck a deal with a new manufacturer of "hammers" and "Taiwan hammers Inc" just went out of business by trying to cut the throat of their main buyers (Wal Mart).
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:08:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 3:21:57 PM EDT by Tonster]
SteyrAUG,
You Sir are correct.
I attend global trade shows in the wireless industry (like the SHOT show you guys attend) and as the number of US distributors and manufactures have dropped and the number of overseas manufacturers has increased. I can totally see where this is going…
Now I just have to figure out what I'm gonna do about it!!!!
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:39:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The ONLY thing that could possibly save us is to once again start producing the BEST goods in the world like Japan does with electronics and Germany does with cars. Then at least we will have a place in the new global market. Right now we are just making the same shit the third world does but expecting to be paid more for our goods.



You can thank your labor unions for that. I got out of bed and went to the assembly line now where is my $100,000 a year and pension? Same effort as a third world country and no extra effort at providing a superior product. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:40:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonster:
I attend global trade shows in the wireless industry (like the SHOT show you guys attend) and as the number of US distributors and manufactures have dropped and the number of overseas manufacturers has increased. I can totally see where this is going…
Now I just have to figure out what I'm gonna do about it!!!!



I'm betting the smart money will stay in the Pacific Rim ... probably take a turn towards the west coast of South America in 2 or 3 years.


Meanwhile, I'll avoid Norinco hammers as best I can. At least while Plumb is still in business.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:44:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:45:05 PM EDT
Remember the miners in days past, they had to spend there paycheck at the company store. Welcome to Wally World !
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:51:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:55:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 4:03:39 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:19:18 PM EDT
Well, I for one, am glad I know that our trade negotiators for the last 30 years, have been Good Solid americans, with good old american names, and ties going back generations...





If I didn't know that, I'd be led to the conclusion, that our manufacturing industry has been destroyed on purpose...
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:46:49 PM EDT
For the folks screaming "It's capitalism, leave it alone," you're wrong. The problem is that we, a capitalist nation, are competing with non-capitalist societies. There is no way American workers can compete (dollar for dollar) with prison labor in a 3rd world socialist country. You don't see us getting cheap hammers from Germany or the UK or other (mostly) capitalist nations.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:47:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 4:51:27 PM EDT by Raynor_Schiene]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
It's Dave and Dave's fault only if the best he can do is get a job at Wal-Mart. If Dave wants better wages, Dave can go to school at night and get a degree. Don't blame Wal-Mart for Dave's lack of skills.



Brilliant, now the American Dream REQUIRES a degree?

What ever happened to a good idea and hard work?

What ever happened to "it doesn't matter where you come from or if you are poor?"

Dave should have been a brain surgeon and he wouldn't be put out of business by Wal Mart.

Genius, now we only need a entire nation full of brain surgeons and we'll be fine.

Do you think about this stuff first or just start typing?



Steyr: Brilliant, now the American Dream REQUIRES a degree?
Raynor: No, not at all. But it looks like Dave needs one if he doesn't want to work at WalMart.

Steyr: What ever happened to a good idea and hard work?
Raynor: Nothing! Entrepreneurs and small business owners make up the vast majority of businesses in America.

Steyr: What ever happened to "it doesn't matter where you come from or if you are poor?"
Raynor: What does that have to do with Dave going to night school and getting a better education?

Steyr: Dave should have been a brain surgeon and he wouldn't be put out of business by Wal Mart.
Raynor: No, but he did know the risks of starting his own business. A large majority of small businesses fail for various reasons.

Steyr: Do you think about this stuff first or just start typing?
Raynor: Of course I think first. You have your opinion of the economy and the market, and so do I. They just differ that's all.

Steyr, do you purposely go out and buy the most expensive item you can find? Or do you prefer to get it at less cost? I prefer the costlier when it comes to firearms, clothes, watches, automobiles, bourbon, and tobacco. But for batteries, electronics, cd's, dvd's, etc., I shop around for the less expensive. And Wal-Mart fits that bill. Do you ONLY buy "Made in America"? I do on most of the above mentioned costlier items. But I know it's impossible with 90% of the things I buy at Wal-Mart. Even "Dave's" would carry items made other than in America.

I suggest you relax, enjoy whatever it is you do for a living and invest your money for your future. There are great Stocks and Bonds here and abroad that will yield high dividends.

BTW.. Wal-Mart doesn't sell SAR-1's. I think they believe they are evil!



Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:56:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

Enter the internet.



As soon as the third world realizes they can 'direct market' their products on the internet crappy ahmmers are only gonna cost $2.50 + s/h. In reality they will probably price gouge us for $3.50 + s/h and nobody is gonna wanna pay Wal Mart ripoff prices of $6.50.




Sorry, but that isn't going to happen, it's just not they way big companies do business. "Taiwan hammers inc" isn't going to want to HOPE to sell 32 million hammers INDIVIDUALLY, when they are guaranteed to sell the same 32 million hammers to Wal Mart for a slightly lower price and get their money all at once. If you think "Taiwan hammers inc" want to cash 32 million $2.50 checks you're crazy. It would be a shipping nightmare for them at best, and they wouldn't sell nearly the volume of "hammers" they could dealing with just one large US company.

Secondly, shipping items from overseas is not cheap. Shipping is going to cost the buyer more than the "hammer", and guess where they'll head? Right back to Wal Mart. Only now Wal Mart has struck a deal with a new manufacturer of "hammers" and "Taiwan hammers Inc" just went out of business by trying to cut the throat of their main buyers (Wal Mart).



That's basically how I feel about it. It is not viable for companies to ship small orders overseas. They would have to use airfreight, and that is so friggin' expensive no one would be willing to pay for it.

I think a more plausible scenario is foreign companies opening large wholesale outlets in Canada or Mexico and using the common post to mail goods across the border. That is much cheaper.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 5:01:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 5:04:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 5:09:45 PM EDT
Steyr, you're way too negative for me dude. I have better things to worry about than China making cheap shit that gets tossed after a few months. Good luck on your quest for a perfect and utopian system.

By the way, what exactly do you do for a living? Is it gun related?
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 5:13:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

Enter the internet.



As soon as the third world realizes they can 'direct market' their products on the internet crappy ahmmers are only gonna cost $2.50 + s/h. In reality they will probably price gouge us for $3.50 + s/h and nobody is gonna wanna pay Wal Mart ripoff prices of $6.50.




Sorry, but that isn't going to happen, it's just not they way big companies do business. "Taiwan hammers inc" isn't going to want to HOPE to sell 32 million hammers INDIVIDUALLY, when they are guaranteed to sell the same 32 million hammers to Wal Mart for a slightly lower price and get their money all at once. If you think "Taiwan hammers inc" want to cash 32 million $2.50 checks you're crazy. It would be a shipping nightmare for them at best, and they wouldn't sell nearly the volume of "hammers" they could dealing with just one large US company.

Secondly, shipping items from overseas is not cheap. Shipping is going to cost the buyer more than the "hammer", and guess where they'll head? Right back to Wal Mart. Only now Wal Mart has struck a deal with a new manufacturer of "hammers" and "Taiwan hammers Inc" just went out of business by trying to cut the throat of their main buyers (Wal Mart).



That's basically how I feel about it. It is not viable for companies to ship small orders overseas. They would have to use airfreight, and that is so friggin' expensive no one would be willing to pay for it.

I think a more plausible scenario is foreign companies opening large wholesale outlets in Canada or Mexico and using the common post to mail goods across the border. That is much cheaper.



What about when they sell enough, while at the same time denying to Marts, and they get their own distribution.

China Mart isn't a impossiblity. Well they would probably call it something else like "USA Mart."



I thought your primary thesis was based on a direct sales approach?

Yes, they could open distributorships in the US, but those distributorships would be no different than any other distributorship. Odds are they would be run by Americans and employ Americans -- like in the same way German beer is sold in the US.

If they opened their own marts, it would be no different than say, France opening FranceMart. There would not necessarily be a large, visible French influence. Well, maybe that's a bad example considering how much the French love themselves.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 5:18:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Raynor_Schiene:
Steyr, you're way too negative for me dude. I have better things to worry about than China making cheap shit that gets tossed after a few months. Good luck on your quest for a perfect and utopian system.

By the way, what exactly do you do for a living? Is it gun related?

It isn't negativity. It is realism.
If your job is in any way related to making or selling a product, be concerned.
And read Atlas Shrugged
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