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Posted: 11/21/2003 11:05:11 AM EDT
James 2
24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.



Matthew 1

5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:13:15 AM EDT
It's all a myth, you can read into anything you want.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:14:24 AM EDT
I'm certain the well known biblical scholars will be along to set this straight.

I guess you would be correct if you ASSUME there is one, and only one Rahab to EVER walk the face of the Earth.

And even if she was a fallen woman, Jesus loves her anyway.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:15:35 AM EDT
I mean, its not like your saying that someones prophet is a pedophile or anything...

And it might not be the same person, just the same name. Do the dates line up?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:16:31 AM EDT
Christians: is this the same Rahab? I don't know. Would be interesting if she was, though.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:26:46 AM EDT
Remember, folks, Biblically speaking, we are ALL (including Jesus the man) descendants of a murderer (Cain).
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:44:17 AM EDT
I've been told she is one and the same. As you read through the genalogies of Jesus, God's grace and mercy become ever clearer.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:49:47 AM EDT
Is this the fundamentalist,flat earth,geocentric theory of the universe,Intelegent design,stone the Idolater fan club?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:54:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 12:28:26 PM EDT by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By dinkydow:
Is this the fundamentalist,flat earth,geocentric theory of the universe,Intelegent design,stone the Idolater fan club?





"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you" (Matthew 5:10-12)

Bring it on, asswipe my friend!



O_P!
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 11:59:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Christians: is this the same Rahab? I don't know. Would be interesting if she was, though.



It is indeed the same Rahab.


hielo said:

It's all a myth, you can read into anything you want.



Nice try, old buddy. But you are wrong.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:04:45 PM EDT
By the way, clean_cut. Glad to see you are studying the Word.

It's good for you.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:05:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Christians: is this the same Rahab? I don't know. Would be interesting if she was, though.



It is indeed the same Rahab.


hielo said:

It's all a myth, you can read into anything you want.



Nice try, old buddy. But you are wrong.



OP, you just need faith. Have enough faith, and you can beleive anything.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:06:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
OP, you just need faith. Have enough faith, and you can beleive anything.



Some things are not believable, no matter how much faith you have...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:15:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:

OP, you just need faith. Have enough faith, and you can beleive anything.



hielo, I also collect quotes and one of my favorites is from Mark Twain:

"We laugh at the school boy, yet it was the school boy who said, 'Faith is believing what you know ain't so.'"



And I've got lots of faith. And it is well-placed. I place it all in Jesus Christ.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By dinkydow:
Is this the fundamentalist,flat earth,geocentric theory of the universe,Intelegent design,stone the Idolater fan club?





"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you" (Matthew 5:10-12)

Bring it on, asswipe!


REally made your day didn't it thumper?Sir...methinks thou doest protest too much.Careful....ever had an original thought of your own that wasn't inspired by scripture?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:19:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 12:27:39 PM EDT by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By dinkydow:
REally made your day didn't it thumper?Sir...methinks thou doest protest too much.Careful....ever had an original thought of your own that wasn't inspired by scripture?





My friend, you have no EARTHLY idea what you're talking about if you think that I, of all the people on this earth, am a "thumper".



The Lord himself is laughing Himself silly right now, just thinking of what you said...

I have plenty of original non-Biblical thoughts. I just refer to Scripture when I need guidance and when folks like you show up looking for a fight.

Have a GREAT day!

Oh, and IBTL, because, as always, one guy with an aversion to other's faith shows up and ruins it for everyone. Hope you're proud of yourself!



Keep me honest, O_P!
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:26:14 PM EDT
Whatever happened to the turn the other cheek jazz? Or is that outdated?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:30:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
Whatever happened to the turn the other cheek jazz? Or is that outdated?



Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "Turn the other cheek until you're black and blue and a heap of mangled flesh" translation of Scripture.

I turned the other cheek in my forst post. I got smacked again. The Lord used the singular.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:31:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Whatever happened to the turn the other cheek jazz? Or is that outdated?



Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "Turn the other cheek until you're black and blue and a heap of mangled flesh" translation of Scripture.

I turned the other cheek in my forst post. I got smacked again. The Lord used the singular.



Hey, if you say so.

Good to see some sanity coming into the discussion.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:50:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 12:51:29 PM EDT by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By hielo:
Whatever happened to the turn the other cheek jazz? Or is that outdated?



You always ask good questions.

God's Word is never outdated. I'll give you my opinion on this issue.

Jesus was giving Christians some teaching regarding how to treat one another. His point was, that if my Christian friend Zaphod and I were arguing and he got so mad at me that he slapped me. I ought to "turn the other cheek" so as to embarrass him into realizing what a terrible thing he had done. Hopefully, he would be so ashamed of what he did, that he would ask forgiveness and our relationship as friends could be restored.

But Jesus didn't mean for me to allow every one that wants too to slap me around. If you are willing to treat me according to God's law, I will treat you the same and "turn the other cheek" if you get out of line.

But Jesus also said, "Give unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's, and unto God the things that are God's". That means that if you treat me according to Ceasar's law (the law of the world) and slap me, I can defend myself. And that is just what I will do.

Jesus also said to give your cloak unto those that ask. But again, that is only if the person is indeed needy. I have no obligation to give my clothes or money to a deadbeat. So, I help those that are truly needy (and ask according to scripture), and ignore the deadbeats.

Jesus' teachings are eternal and perfect. And neither He nor His Word ever changes.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:53:35 PM EDT
While I appreciate your lengthy and concise reply OP, doesn't the line:

"Jesus also said to give your cloak unto those that ask. But again, that is only if the person is indeed needy. I have no obligation to give my clothes or money to a deadbeat. So, I help those that are truly needy (and ask according to scripture), and ignore the deadbeats."

Break the Judge not, lest though be judged thingy?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 1:08:07 PM EDT by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By hielo:
Break the Judge not, lest though be judged thingy?



Okay, one more time. You listening, Hielo? Good!

Okay, the complete verse and context is:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
(Matthew 7:1-2, KJV)

So, suppose O_P makes a judgement that someone is a deadbeat. To do that, he uses a set of criteria and then reaches his conclusion.

What the Lord said is that since O_P utilized that set of criteria, the same set shall be utilized to judge HIM.

The passage does not call on you not to judge, but rather to not be a hypocrite when you do judge.

Edited to make the point clearer...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:07:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
While I appreciate your lengthy and concise reply OP, doesn't the line:

"Jesus also said to give your cloak unto those that ask. But again, that is only if the person is indeed needy. I have no obligation to give my clothes or money to a deadbeat. So, I help those that are truly needy (and ask according to scripture), and ignore the deadbeats."

Break the Judge not, lest though be judged thingy?



Glad to respond.

No, it doesn't break that "thingy" at all. As usual, it is best to read scripture in context.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


He is warning us that we will be judged with the same standards as we judge others.

So, if I see a bum (good word, "bum". Lost from current usage) standing under an overpass asking for money, I can ignore him. Why? Because we are instructed, "If a man will not work, neither shall he eat."

If I see people that are able to work, but choose to beg instead, I can judge them to be bums. Why? Because if you ever see me begging when I am perfectly able to work, I am willing to be judged the same way.

Jesus also told us to judge several times in scripture. Here's a couple.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

A warning to be careful to judge righteously.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

BTW, a "saint" is any Christian.

Thanks for the Bible drill.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:16:45 PM EDT
It is good to see that your biblical scriptures are so open to interpretation.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:20:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
It is good to see that your biblical scriptures are so open to interpretation.



Don't guess I see that.

Could you read the scriptures and tell me where I've "over-interpreted" them? Looks to me like they are pretty clear in their meaning.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:23:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By hielo:
It is good to see that your biblical scriptures are so open to interpretation.



Don't guess I see that.

Could you read the scriptures and tell me where I've "over-interpreted" them? Looks to me like they are pretty clear in their meaning.




Sorry OP, but what I get from it is that you are able to read them and take whatever it is you like from the words.

It also doesn't help that we don't know which version of which bible you are reading from.

(Is there a canon bible?)

Turn the other cheek, unless you are angry and unless you have already turned it once, in which case you can attack with all althricity...

Must have been written with input from a Lawyer .
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:31:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By hielo:
It is good to see that your biblical scriptures are so open to interpretation.



Don't guess I see that.

Could you read the scriptures and tell me where I've "over-interpreted" them? Looks to me like they are pretty clear in their meaning.




Sorry OP, but what I get from it is that you are able to read them and take whatever it is you like from the words.

It also doesn't help that we don't know which version of which bible you are reading from.

(Is there a canon bible?)



I read the RB version. Real Bible.

AKA King James.



Turn the other cheek, unless you are angry and unless you have already turned it once, in which case you can attack with all althricity...


Don't believe that I said any of that. Anger is no excuse. Having already turned it once is no excuse.

If you are going to accuse me of over-interpreting, at least use my own comments, please.


Must have been written with input from a Lawyer .


Thank goodness, no. If so, it would be a 20 volume set that no one could understand.

Instead, it is one Book and anyone that reads it with an open heart can clearly understand the important parts of the Gospel or Good News.

I love it.

Psalm 119:77 Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:33:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
Sorry OP, but what I get from it is that you are able to read them and take whatever it is you like from the words.

It also doesn't help that we don't know which version of which bible you are reading from.

(Is there a canon bible?)

Turn the other cheek, unless you are angry and unless you have already turned it once, in which case you can attack with all althricity...

Must have been written with input from a Lawyer .



Wow. So I guess after December 7th, 1941 and September 11th, 2001, we should have collectively turned the other cheek?

If you see a Christian getting his butt kicked, and not fighting back, are you going to keep walking, thinking, "He's getting what his lord commanded"?

Do you read everything so literally and rigidly?

<snort> Then they call US fundamentalists!
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:37:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By hielo:
Sorry OP, but what I get from it is that you are able to read them and take whatever it is you like from the words.

It also doesn't help that we don't know which version of which bible you are reading from.

(Is there a canon bible?)

Turn the other cheek, unless you are angry and unless you have already turned it once, in which case you can attack with all althricity...

Must have been written with input from a Lawyer .



Wow. So I guess after December 7th, 1941 and September 11th, 2001, we should have collectively turned the other cheek?

If you see a Christian getting his butt kicked, and not fighting back, are you going to keep walking, thinking, "He's getting what his lord commanded"?

Do you read everything so literally and rigidly?

<snort> Then they call US fundamentalists!



It is interesting that two people who espouse the same faith can come at things so differently.

Either the bible is open to interpretation, or a whole bunch of people are wrong in their beliefs, wouldn't you say?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:46:29 PM EDT
I love to argue with these fundamentalist christians but I go under one assumption. Evertone belives what what they want FIRST then if the bible backs them up they feel "righteous" but if the bible says otherwise then they choose to ignore it or "reinterpret" it or make some kind of reasoning in their mind as to why this particular part of the bible should not be followed or not stressed as much as another part and so on and so on. So when I argue with someone about this I don't expect to change their mind as they made up their mind before they even opened up the bible.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:51:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:
It is interesting that two people who espouse the same faith can come at things so differently.

Either the bible is open to interpretation, or a whole bunch of people are wrong in their beliefs, wouldn't you say?



First of all, we don't come at it all that differently. Heck, we've practically posted identical responses.

I am discussing the issue of self-defense, whereas O_P is discussing the issue of the personal slight.

I regret that my knowledge of Scripture is far too limited for me to quote chapter and verse, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that self-defense is wrong. Now, when it comes to the personal slight, then O_P is dead-on correct. Just because I come out swinging after the second slap doesn't mean I'm right, or that my interpretation is. In fact, I have sent my friend an O_P asking his assistence in clarifying my knowledge on the issue, so as to learn what the Lord actually meant (the ONLY interpretation, BTW).

So, what you describe as "different interpretations" is a seasoned man with great knowledge and faith (O_P) as compared to a relative infant in the faith, who is trying to learn but stumbling in some of his first lessons. It is NOT a reflection on the Scriptures.

Fortunately, I am blessed to have folks around me, including a few here, to guide me on my walk. In a few years, I hope to be able to return the favor buy guiding the next generation to Christ.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:54:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I love to argue with these fundamentalist christians but I go under one assumption. Evertone belives what what they want FIRST then if the bible backs them up they feel "righteous" but if the bible says otherwise then they choose to ignore it or "reinterpret" it or make some kind of reasoning in their mind as to why this particular part of the bible should not be followed or not stressed as much as another part and so on and so on. So when I argue with someone about this I don't expect to change their mind as they made up their mind before they even opened up the bible.



That's funny. I've ditched all kinds of beliefs and practices specifically because I found that they were wrong according to Scripture.

Perhaps the reason you never change their minds is because they are utilizing the Word of God, and you are using........what are you using?

It is truly amazing........NOTHING generates hatred in this country faster than a person refering to Scripture or invoking Christ.

But hey, our Lord told us to expect that, so all it does is confirm my faith.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 2:07:15 PM EDT
..Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet....
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 2:29:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
And I've got lots of faith. And it is well-placed. I place it all in Jesus Christ.



Ditto.


Originally Posted By hielo:
It's all a myth, you can read into anything you want.



-----------------------------
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me. "What is truth?" Pilate asked. ... " - John 18-37,38
---------------------------

What do I read into these verses? I believe Jesus was speaking directly to you hielo (and those who believe as you). He is addressing mythology and the fact that it does not apply. If I may be so bold. In reply to Pilot's question... he's thinking...

'YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT'

--LS
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 2:50:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hielo:

It is interesting that two people who espouse the same faith can come at things so differently.

Either the bible is open to interpretation, or a whole bunch of people are wrong in their beliefs, wouldn't you say?



Good point. Zaphod has done a good job of explaining in his posts.

I would point out, however, that as a new Christian, Zaphod is still learning the "finer points" of his faith.

But if you asked him and I about the major issues, such as:

Can we do enough works to save ourselves?
Is there salvation in any other than Jesus?
Was Jesus really God?
Will Jesus ever change His mind?
Can we trust the Bible?

You will find that he and I (and other Christians) are totally in agreement.

(And if not, after I show him some scriptures, he will agree. )

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 2:50:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:13:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
It is truly amazing........NOTHING generates hatred in this country faster than a person refering to Scripture or invoking Christ.


Shaddup!
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:21:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 3:24:55 PM EDT by steenkybastage]
You guys crack me up.

Would you please bother reading the ENTIRE passage?


1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:
2Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6and Jesse begot David the king.
David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. 7Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. 11Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.



Rahab, the great great great (quite a few more greats) grandmother of JOSEPH.

For those of you who are not familiar enough with the Bible to know:

The Bible tells us Jesus was born of a virgin, Mary. NOT born from Mary & Joseph.

So it apparently was the stepfather of Jesus who was related to Rahab.

Wow, powerful stuff there!

Edited to fix quotes and remove footnote #'s.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:23:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By hielo:

It is interesting that two people who espouse the same faith can come at things so differently.

Either the bible is open to interpretation, or a whole bunch of people are wrong in their beliefs, wouldn't you say?



Good point. Zaphod has done a good job of explaining in his posts.

I would point out, however, that as a new Christian, Zaphod is still learning the "finer points" of his faith.

But if you asked him and I about the major issues, such as:

Can we do enough works to save ourselves?
Is there salvation in any other than Jesus?
Was Jesus really God?
Will Jesus ever change His mind?
Can we trust the Bible?

You will find that he and I (and other Christians) are totally in agreement.

(And if not, after I show him some scriptures, he will agree. )




I would only add hielo, that if you'll notice, the Christians here ARE different.

You can see, by our different posting styles...

The "Body of Christ", (The Church), is composed of different parts, for different functions, according to the Gifts of the Spirit...

We are NOT Nazis, who march in lock step...

But, our BASIC doctrine, will be the same...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:25:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
I'm certain the well known biblical scholars will be along to set this straight.

I guess you would be correct if you ASSUME there is one, and only one Rahab to EVER walk the face of the Earth.

And even if she was a fallen woman, Jesus loves her anyway.



Different Rahab...

The Rahab referenced by James 2 lived much earlier than the one in Matt 1. She hid the Israelite spies who came to scout out the city of Jericho. Her family was the only one spared when the city fell, and in spite of her occupation, she was considered a 'heroic' figure for saving the spies...

The Rahab of Matt 1 is from an entirely different generation...

BUT, that aside, Jesus associated with prostitutes, tax collectors, & other 'lowlifes' of the day... The 'healthy' do not need a doctor, after all...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:30:25 PM EDT
Re: 'Turn the other cheek'

There is significance in WHICH cheeks the Bible is referring to...

To strike someone on the right cheek, you use your left hand, which was a 'challenge' of sorts in that time...

Very similar to the old european 'Glove to the face' gesture...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:38:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
I'm certain the well known biblical scholars will be along to set this straight.

I guess you would be correct if you ASSUME there is one, and only one Rahab to EVER walk the face of the Earth.

And even if she was a fallen woman, Jesus loves her anyway.



Different Rahab...

The Rahab referenced by James 2 lived much earlier than the one in Matt 1. She hid the Israelite spies who came to scout out the city of Jericho. Her family was the only one spared when the city fell, and in spite of her occupation, she was considered a 'heroic' figure for saving the spies...

The Rahab of Matt 1 is from an entirely different generation...

BUT, that aside, Jesus associated with prostitutes, tax collectors, & other 'lowlifes' of the day... The 'healthy' do not need a doctor, after all...



They were one and the same Rahab.

Rahab was the mother of Boaz.

Boaz appears in "Ruth 2:1"

The book of Ruth happens to be the book after Judges, where Rahab (the prostitute) is mentioned.

The timeline is correct, however nothing that I've found other than their relative closeness in the Bible would definitively state it was one and the same Rahab.

Of course, none of this matters, as Joseph (who is related to Rahab) is not related to Jesus.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:43:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 3:49:01 PM EDT by MAC-DADDY]
Ding-a-dang-ding-my-dang-along-ling-long.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 6:22:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By hielo:
It is interesting that two people who espouse the same faith can come at things so differently.

Either the bible is open to interpretation, or a whole bunch of people are wrong in their beliefs, wouldn't you say?



First of all, we don't come at it all that differently. Heck, we've practically posted identical responses.

I am discussing the issue of self-defense, whereas O_P is discussing the issue of the personal slight.

I regret that my knowledge of Scripture is far too limited for me to quote chapter and verse, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that self-defense is wrong. Now, when it comes to the personal slight, then O_P is dead-on correct. Just because I come out swinging after the second slap doesn't mean I'm right, or that my interpretation is. In fact, I have sent my friend an O_P asking his assistence in clarifying my knowledge on the issue, so as to learn what the Lord actually meant (the ONLY interpretation, BTW).

So, what you describe as "different interpretations" is a seasoned man with great knowledge and faith (O_P) as compared to a relative infant in the faith, who is trying to learn but stumbling in some of his first lessons. It is NOT a reflection on the Scriptures.

Fortunately, I am blessed to have folks around me, including a few here, to guide me on my walk. In a few years, I hope to be able to return the favor buy guiding the next generation to Christ.



Luke 22:36: He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Looks to me that Jesus fully intended for Christians to defend themselves. Here's a website that outlines the Christian justification for self-defense, amongst other things.

For example: Jesus, in the garden when he was getting arrested, told Peter to put away his sword (John 18:11). Didn't tell him to get rid of it, told him to put it away, so Jesus could fulfill God's plan. He was willing to let Peter defend him, just not then.

Zaphod: In spite of your self-professed infancy of faith, you are well-spoken.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
So what's the point clean_cut?

What does the fact that Rahab was a prostitute (who repented of her sins, by the way, and married a righteous man) at some point in her past life matter?

Does it reflect badly upon the person or the dignity of Jesus Christ, or were you just hoping to stir something up with your pointless post?

If fourteen generations back a direct female ancestor of yours was plying her trade as a common whore, how can that possibly reflect upon you?

So, your point, again?

Besides, Jesus Christ was not in any sense the product of any lineage that we can possibly conceive of, anyway.

The geneaolgy of Christ was simply another clear and convincing prophecy about the Messiah that was fulfilled in the Person of Jesus - He was born of the House of David!

Yet, He existed without beginning, so He was not a descendant of David in any real sense. In any human sense.

As He put it in John, Chapter 8:

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

He is Eternal, without beginning and without end.

You and I are more directly descended from Rahab than He!

Right?

Eric The(Scriptural)Hun




What's the point?

Not trying to make one. I was really just asking if someone could verify whether the Rahab mentioned was in Jesus' lineage.

I'm not anti-Christian. If Jesus' line on the stepfather's side (which in those days would make it Jesus' lineage) DOES have a prostitute, I think that would be give encouragement to those who think they cannot go back to God because of something they did.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:40:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:47:42 PM EDT
Psalm 130
3 If you, O LORD , kept a record of sins,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But with you there is forgiveness;
therefore you are feared.


5 I wait for the LORD , my soul waits,
and in his word I put my hope.



I've always wondered about this little verse. Shouldn't it say that God is to be feared because there is no forgiveness, yet it says He is feared BECAUSE there is forgiveness.

It's like when you do wrong to somebody and they turn around and smile at you, and say it's okay...you are more intimidated by that person than if he'd just curse you out.

Same thing with God, I think, but on a different scale.

Anyway, it's no big deal to me if Rahab was a prostitute and she was in Jesus' lineage. I'm sure she repented and became righteous. It would give encouragement to women out there who "fell from grace" to see that they can be made whole again.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:56:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 10:59:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 11:00:57 AM EDT by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Zaphod: In spite of your self-professed infancy of faith, you are well-spoken.



Thank you, my friend. I am flattered and honored that you would think so....


...and to answer my friend O_P:


Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

But if you asked him and I about the major issues, such as:

Can we do enough works to save ourselves? NO! NEVER!
Is there salvation in any other than Jesus? NO! NONE!
Was Jesus really God? YES! He always was, STILL is, and always WILL be!
Will Jesus ever change His mind? NO! NEVER!
Can we trust the Bible? YES! ALWAYS!

You will find that he and I (and other Christians) are totally in agreement.

(And if not, after I show him some scriptures, he will agree. )



AMEN?


Finally:


Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
It is truly amazing........NOTHING generates hatred in this country faster than a person refering to Scripture or invoking Christ.



Shaddup!



I rest my case!

I was wondering when you'd turn up, DP!
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:16:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Zaphod: In spite of your self-professed infancy of faith, you are well-spoken.



Thank you, my friend. I am flattered and honored that you would think so....


...and to answer my friend O_P:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

But if you asked him and I about the major issues, such as:

Can we do enough works to save ourselves? NO! NEVER!
Is there salvation in any other than Jesus? NO! NONE!
Was Jesus really God? YES! He always was, STILL is, and always WILL be!
Will Jesus ever change His mind? NO! NEVER!
Can we trust the Bible? YES! ALWAYS!

AMEN?




Well done, Grasshopper.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 2:12:19 PM EDT
I spect that if any of us went back 14 generations we'ld probably find a lot of interesting folks in there some place.

The lineage of David had a few others that played a little fast and loose with wives and others.
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