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Posted: 11/21/2003 2:32:24 PM EDT
[#1]
When SHTF,and someone comes to my house looking for cover, "arfcom" is the secret password.
that is unless his name is Vic and he drives a Vega |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 2:34:01 PM EDT
[#2]
It's all very possible something like this could happen.
Hell, they shutdown most of the east coast because of two nut-jobs in a car that was worth less than the rifle they were shooting. If anything drastic does happen I will not "hook-up" with any group.I will remain an independent state until the smoke clears.  I'm up in the high desert now, away from the city so I feel pretty safe.I've got all the needed survival tools, food and 25,000 gallons of water
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:10:45 PM EDT
[#3]
As for the internet, it would not just "go down." The internet was designed by the Department of Defense to survive a nuclear catastrophe. Communicating via the internet would most likel be more secure than telephone communications because of its sheer vastness.
As far as what I would do. Well, personal survival superceeds all, including reinstatement of the Constitution. However, a life without freedom is not worth living. An unjust law is no law at all; therefore, if I am required to take up arms against someone to preserve or even expand my freedom, then that is what I'll do. As far as my plans. If something like this should ever happen, God forbid, I'm heading to the hills and no one will be coming with me. I'll do what I can to insure the survival of my close family, but I'm not bringing them with me. Sometimes pressure gets to certain people and they simply cannot be trusted, especially when someone has leverage against them. Also, the actions that may be required to survive in such a situation might be more than some can bear; I'll have no sissyfoots around me. Best to stay alone the way I see it. As for the fighting, it will probably be anarchy at first, so I'll let that peter out. When there are two clearly defined sides I may decide to band together, but then again I may just decide to fight for one side covertly. Personally, I'm not very partial to sticking with others because people are falable and are capable of betrayal. |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:13:18 PM EDT
[#4]
On the contrary, I would say only buy land that is further away than a tank full of gas from the nearest large city! All the idiots in that city will be heading out your way, possibly, but it's likely they cannot refill their tanks, and so, will be far short of being a problem for you! Be prepared and always have extra gas around. Like in that non-SHTF sports car in the garage! Eric The(AlwaysPrepared)Hun 
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:29:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Well, unfortunately for me, I'm the only one in my immediate family that thinks like you guys do.
Everyone it seems thinks that it will be all good, all the time. My sister and her husband once joked that if anything ever happened, they are coming to my house because I have all the food, water, and guns. I encouraged them to start stocking up on their own, they haven't. So how are you guys going to deal with all of your friends and family that didn't prepare?? When you and your immediate only have enough for yourselves? This could present a real problem, don't you think???? |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:36:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Roger that....We will prolly seal off the access to our area... |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:49:38 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 11/21/2003 3:49:56 PM EDT
[#8]
I shall have my trusty knights secure the Palace, (formerly city hall). I shall then declare sovereignty over all lands I deem should fall under my benevolent majesty and shall secure said lands, roads, and sea ports through my lords and knights. I shall provide loving stewardship over all those who swear fielty to my majesty and shall make such royal appointments as are deemed necessary to the orderly conduct of my kingdom.
I shall crush oposition and provide such lands goods and chattels to my loyal lords as is required and all vassels under the realm shall enjoy such freedoms as allowed in the new magna Carta. In truth if society were to totally break down a feudal system would be far more efficient and the quickest way to keep some semblence of order. Democracy would have to come after survival. |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 4:00:01 PM EDT
[#9]
First off, While I do like the idea of a identifying Symbol(Flag) , I'm not real hip to the Flamingo. It's what it's associated with, homosexuals. I know this because, while visiting My brother(Who is quite gay) in Florida, some years ago, I asked "What's with all of the Flamingos everywhere around here?" and was told that "They're kind of a symbol to other gays, that one of Us lives there." "Oh!?!" was all I could think to say.
I would guess that We could come up with some other symbol/password/handshake/decoder ring to help Us recognize each other in such a case. Tall Shadow |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 4:16:17 PM EDT
[#10]
In my opinion the Constitution has been suspended since 1861
If the north triumphs it is not just the destruction of our property, it is the prelude to anarchy, infidelity, the ultimate loss of free and responsible government on this continent. It is the triumph of commerce, the banks, and factories. Stonewall Jackson This is already planned by the globalist. It's only a matter of time. Plan while you can, and shoot the bastards once the SHTF. If all goes well maybe we can take our country back. |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 4:36:52 PM EDT
[#11]
I would leap out of my front door with my Ak47 with drum mags, leap of the steps and start shooting while wearing nothing at all. that will be a real attention getter now wouldnt it.
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Posted: 11/21/2003 4:43:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Going to be an evil warlord, too? Just don't encroach on my kingdom...lol Nick |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:45:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Think about it: how many of you actually live more than a gas tank full away from a major city? Is it even possible to be more than a gas tank full away from a major city anymore? I can cross an entire state on a tank of gas, and then I'm just within spitting distance of even more large cities. You guys who say to get away from large cities will have to qualify that statement a bit. Theres no "getting away" totally from larger cities.All you can do is not buy property immediately on the other side of a major bridge outside the city. |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:52:40 AM EDT
[#14]
If I live through "The Initial Gathering", I am pretty sure I can hike to TX in about 2 weeks, and just hope somebody answers the damn door when I scream "In Before The Lock!!!!"
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:01:31 PM EDT
[#15]
I wouldnt even bother buying land. Buying land means you have your name on some paper, all the easier for the JBTs to track you if need be. Best to just hit the hills you know and stay there.
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:08:28 PM EDT
[#16]
For clarification......that's sarcasm right? |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:13:36 PM EDT
[#17]
i'll be heading to a certain spot in the appalachians
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:25:15 PM EDT
[#18]
If, and it's a big IF the Shit Hits the Fan and all hell breaks loose, there is one simple rule to remember. There are no rules!
It's every man for himself until some sort of organized group sets up meetings (clandestined perhaps), and the word gets out "who is who and who is not." Until that time, coinage and paper money won't be worth a shit. You can be certain about one thing though. Those with the guns will be those with the neccessities. |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 8:24:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Since stock piling this stuff will in no way help you prepare for a SHTF scenario, fell free to send all your bills to me, and by bills I mean cash, as in greenbacks. Thought Ishould add that part in before anyone got any bright ideas. Thank you. |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 9:56:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Go underground like the VC. How many of you have a shovel or entrenching tool on your survival list?
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Posted: 11/22/2003 10:18:31 PM EDT
[#21]
If it's an open revolt against a legitimately elected government, I'm with the govt... No question...
Anything else, and I go whereever it hasn't HTF... There will never be a nationwide collapse, regional or local maybe, but somewhere civilization will still be on-line and operational... |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 10:26:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Jackson is realy the only large city in this state everything ealse is remote. Then you take a look at the popultion of the state witch is around 3 mil people I think we will be ok. Most people here had rifles or shotguns in thier hands by age five. Everyone knows each other and most people here wont back down or run from anything or anyone. while all you guys are running for the mountains we will move into the woods and swamps and say bring it on. What most of you up north call survival training down here
its a way of life. Not trying to make you mad just stating a fact. Down here things are a lot different than anywere ealse and I would not trade it for the world. I know some of you are laughing, but when it hits and you are running around like a chicken with your head cut off we'll be moving our communites into safe areas working as a team for the greater good of our families and we will survive!!! Think about it, use dumb redneck haven't trusted the U.S. GOV. sense 1861 and not going to start any day soon. any of you are welcome when it hits but just be careful when trying to sneek around down here. On the flag part, I JUST SOON KEEP THE ONE WE HAVE FAUGHT SO HARD TO KEEP ALL THIS TIME THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 10:35:41 PM EDT
[#23]
The hard part would be surviving the chaos. Until the Arabs catch wind of this. Then become a common enenmy.
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Posted: 11/22/2003 11:25:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Why is it most of you want to "bug-out" when/if TSHTF? Ya'll want to run away! Me, I'm staying put. I know who on my block is LEO and who is an ex-felon.
You have to remember too, there are 1.5m military personnel..How many would be needed for security of the US? There are WAY fewer cops. Do you really think 80 million gun owners will let blue helmets cross our land? Look at our guys fighting in a 3rd world country! Imagine the technology and know-how we have here compared to them...The "PEOPLE" will kick ass!... I'm staying put. I have a B.O.B., but that is for EXTREME emergencies. I know who might be looking for trouble on my street too. Why run away? Prepare where you are! |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 12:52:03 AM EDT
[#25]
I would hope for a major illness that would wipe out the majority of the human race. The fewer people you have to deal with in a survival situation, the better. Of course, I would be immune.
 ______________________________________________ NRA Life Member GOA Life Member SAF Supporter SAS Supporter |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 12:54:12 AM EDT
[#26]
I believe that. ______________________________________________ NRA Life Member GOA Life Member SAF Supporter SAS Supporter |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 1:41:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Naturally. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 2:04:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Myself,I would stay put until things sorted themselves out.I live in a rural setting with a free flowing well and a major salt water river 200' away.All the trout,redfish and oysters you can eat.I don't really like fish and damn sure don't like oysters but if the time ever comes, a hungry stomach is a great motivator.
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:43:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Not very practical, I think. From what I've read on the subject, the soil in VN was of a type and consistency that lent itself to the construction of the tunnels, and THOSE were built up over decades. The soil here in the USA ....well, look at the effort that goes into mining tunnels here. Better to stay above ground here, unless you are building some kind of local shelter rather than an actual tunnel network. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 5:57:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Tell that to the Jews during WW2, or to the Somalis, Rowandans, Hatians, everyone in the Balkans... |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 5:58:59 AM EDT
[#31]
As someone who just recently drove across Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and Oklahoma, I can assure you the answer to that is Yes. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 6:23:03 AM EDT
[#32]
If y'all want to look at the upcoming SHTF scenario before it happens, read the Book of Revelations, chaps. 6-19, and tell me how you plan on preparing.
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Posted: 11/23/2003 6:26:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Note to self: Flamingos no good in FLA. How about used white painted tires and a clothsline in the FRONT yard? JK Hunter out... |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 7:18:49 AM EDT
[#34]
You say this in jest, but I believe it to be entirely accurate. "Know thy enemy" is a credo I've followed for years, and it's not the family of three next door or my co workers, but the nutcase up the block. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 7:32:40 AM EDT
[#35]
I also worry of a feudal type system coming in as a form of order. As someone stated earlier, every crackpot who believed he was bound for glory and has been held back by our current system will gather up every scared, ignorant, and weak-minded follower that will follow him. I'm sure there will be those who allow themselves to be "subjects" under this order because they value safety over freedom. Just like any other gang, they'll rule by force and continuously coerce and bully until people submit and tow the party line.
I'm sure there will be true patriots out there, but the majority of what you'll find will wave the flag for their own personal agenda. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 7:48:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Think about the question and the premise. Everyone here seems to assume that there would be instant chaos. You're wrong. We so often talk of "sheep". Well the sheep, for the most part would do nothing. There would be martial law. Demonstrations against it would not be permitted, or put down with an efficiency never before seen. Only in big cities, would people be close enough together, to form any decent sized crowd that could do anything. They would also be the easiest to control. In rural areas, it would be next to impossible for like-minded resistance types to mass, or at least form an effective mass. It would indeed be up to the individual to resist, in small teams. The only chance for victory would have to come from within the ranks of the military, especially the officer corps of the military. All of this "Rambo fantasizing" and sadly, pitiful yearning about anarchy, shows poor forsight and vision. Regardless of the final outcome, this nation and this Constitution would be forever lost. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 8:54:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Well, actually that is the premise. For whatever reason all hell breaks lose. How are we going to organize to restore order and re-institute the Constitution?
You're correct. However, we are not all sheep.
Who's going to demonstrate? I've got other plans and demonstrating ain't even close.
Those in the cities are pretty much screwed. They would be under total control after the initial looting, raping and pillaging by mobs of scum. Assuming of coures, a SHTF type scenario which is the premise of this thread.
This would be, by far, the most effective means of resistance, in any event, and EXACTLY how we would have to begin.
It would sure help but there are plenty enough of us, who would do what is necessary, to get the job done.
In the scenario envisioned, some anarchy would be the initial response. Simply look at the riots in the 60s, the LA riots in '93, etc. This is what would happen. I doubt too many of us would look forward to it but in this scenario it would be a necessary period to go through prior to re-insitution of order. Preferably a more constitutional order. I think that is what most of us would look forward to.
So untrue. As long as there are men who yearn to be free there is hope for freedom. Further, I believe that MOST american men feel this way and even many of the women. Many of them just need a little push to move them in the right direction. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 9:10:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Thanks, but most of that area would be a last choice of where I'd want to be. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 9:12:47 AM EDT
[#39]
These imagined despots are politicians. You'd be shocked as to the lack of support from the masses.
Psychic?
More wishful thinking. We could end up with something completely different. If you can't see this as a possiblity, it's sure to happen.
Complete chaos erases institutions. Restoring order, requires force and often draconian measures. You are indeed an optimist. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 9:17:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Wow, I agree with big chunks of what you said, and for the most part I wasn't going to reply. THen you posted this. I agree that the only way a large group of people would be able to assemble to mount any kind of effective resistance would have to begin with either a powerful military officer, or a very influencial political leader. The Rambo types defending their homes in a riot type situation could be useful in preventing small pockets of violence. More importantly, later they could assist resistance groups created by said powerful leaders, but only if they were part of their community.They might also be able to save their families. Those that bug out into the woods may be able to stay there for a time. They would eventually be drawn back into the city or surrounding civilized rural areas. Net overall effect of their individual effort: 0. Any of you that have ever honestly spent many days alone in the woods would know that you can't really do it for that long. Unless you have some kind of anti-social/sociopathic disorder where you are afraid of people. My longest stay alone in the woods was five days. i was VERY happy to be back amongst people again. I could have gone longer, but probably not longer than a month or two. That might have made a few more screws loose upstairs too. Humans are social animals. I really think the best thing would be to become involved with your community, help each other, and when the time comes, support the leadership that offers the best outcome. I think in a SHTF scenario, the vast majority of time and effort will be spent with communities trying to find ways to get the things they need, to the people that need them. Food, medicine, firefighters, water, fuel for heating cooling. All these things could be in short supply and will require a group effort to aquire them. Sure there could be some bad people/gangs that would attempt to exploit the situation. A community standing together would be the only real way of fighting this. Shooting and fighting are a small part of a war. God I hope this doesn't happen in my lifetime, or my soon to be born childs lifetime. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 11:55:14 AM EDT
[#41]
How many of us do you think it will take? The "masses", as you describe are not likely to get in the way, either.
Why yes I am. How'd you know? Historically, there is a pretty damn good chance that in the complete breakdown of institutions, infrastructure and order that yes, this is what would happen. Afterall, this is the scenario or premise stated in the initial post of this thread. Those are the groundrules...extrapolate from there. As for "pitifully yearning for anarchy", I'd say not too many. This is merely a discussion of what, in a state of anarchy, we would do to organize and reinstate our institutions. Once again, you have criticized the inital premise of the thread as being unlikely, etc. Perhaps, but what would you do if this ocurred?
Well, of course it is a possibility. There are infinite POSSIBILITIES, are there not? My contention is that good will triumph over evil.
I don't buy that. You are needlessly pessimistic.
Now who is the psychic???
Why thank you. It is rare that I am desribed as an optimist. Of course order will have to be restored and force will likely be necessary. Once again, that is the premise of this thread. Questions are, who is going to restore it, what "oder" will be restored and how is it going to be done? Maybe you could contribute something constructive to the thread. No flame intended. Most of us have thought these possibilities out somewhat, have various experiences, knowledge, and ideas. This is a discussion for the benefit of all of us ARFCOM'ers. Give us your plan for such a scenario. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 12:11:14 PM EDT
[#42]
I haven't decided what to call my side yet. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#43]
I disagree with "anti-social/sociopathic disorder where you are afraid of people." I feel I have neither and I love time alone in the "woods" When I was 16 I used to spend alot of time alone in the "woods" in rural Alaska which is a dam sight more rural then any other State. I remember once a gentleman getting off the mail plane in our huge town of 175 people, he was wearing the coolest outdoor gear I had ever seen and had the best expedtition grade climbing/camping equipment I had ever seen. I asked him what he was up to and he said he was from New York City and was a psyhcologist there to do a study on being alone in the "woods" He put on his pack and headed out of town to be alone. I thought how fricken cool he makes his living doing what I love. 4 hours Later he was back in town looking like a zombie, I again approached him to see what was up. He was shaken and said all his gear was for sale he wanted the hell out of Alaska. Said he got a few miles out of town and realized he was alone and except for the town behind him he was several hundreds of miles from anything or anyone. This is what I loved about living out there but he couldn't handle it. I got some real cool gear for free and he whent back to the city. I have never forgot the look in his eyes of sheer terror. I am far from mental as several MMPI's have proven and my time alone in the "woods" is cherished by me still today. My favorite time alone in the woods is at night I love the night so following your theory that would make me a total nut job. I do agree that city folk would have serious issues in that enviroment but I am sure I am not alone when it comes to REAL country folk. P.S. I have thought that a new "Surviver" Show would have individuals dropped into the Alaskan Bush ALONE with a small backpack containing anything they wanted and the person that could make it the longest would win. Hunter out... |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 2:33:29 PM EDT
[#44]
As for the internet, it would not just "go down."
Power loss = no internet. Period. I find that out the hard way every time the power goes out (couple times a year). |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 2:43:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Unfortunately the "thinking" that goes on often sees some sort of mythical form of idealistic government instated that would never survive in the modern era. The reality is that if this government ever fell, the result would make Somolia look like a vacation resort, because once the teapot is broken, there wont be any fixing it. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:18:28 PM EDT
[#46]
I am going to have to agree with Mind Hunter on this one. Personally, I love the wilderness, and even being away from people. I am not affraid of people, it's just that they annoy me. Even my friends annoy me on occassion. In nature, one gets something that can't be found in areas of concentrated civilization, a natural silence. Sometimes it's dead quiet, sometimes, one can hear only the sounds of nature. That's one of the greatest attractions I have to nature. No cars, no hard drives churning in the background, no people chatting about mind numbingly stupid things, just an unbelieveable degree of silence, or the sounds of nature. It's downright poetic. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:28:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Indeed. If you start your little fantasies from H-Hour, and fail to contemplate the scenarios that brought you there, you're doomed. No, the meanies are not going to suddenly dissolve the Constitution, and say "SHTF begins............NOW!" No. More than likely, Martial Law will come with the support of the people. A nuclear strike, or several. Tens of millions of refugees fleeing outward from ground zero(s). I would HOPE that the Government imposed some sort of Martial Law, in that case. To not do so would be irresponsible. To not do so, would allow disease, and famine to destroy our nation. THEN, there we are. Obviously the nation has an enemy. We are also in chaos. If things break down so far, so that (as fantasized), resistance groups made up of salty extras out of "Red Dawn", could "take back" the government... Yeah. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:37:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Ah yes, naysayers of liberalism raise their heads again:
So that is our choice: Big Brother's and your version of neo-fascism with incremental loss of freedom or "The Mog"? You seriously think that americans would degenerate to total anarchy, genocide, and famine? LMAO. Are you a DU troll trying to convince us that we cannot win or what? I, for one, am not interested in the police state enforcing political correctness and the lib/communist manifesto which you envision. I would probably prefer anarchy to that but I have no intention of willingly submitting to either. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:47:16 PM EDT
[#49]
You're not seeing what he's saying.
Most of you guys behave as though the key to survival is in your choice of weapon, the content of your "bug out bag", your exodus route, etc. And you think that type of thinking could win a war? Please. It's fantasy. |
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Posted: 11/23/2003 3:49:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Well, you can tell us "I told you so" while they march you two into the camps. For your own good, of course.  Except I won't be there with you!Darwin was right after all  Now, anything constructive to add? No? Anything at all? |
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