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Posted: 11/20/2003 12:30:09 PM EDT
Michael Jackson may be the most vilified man in America right now.

I can't recall a quicker rush to judgement
than that which has taken place since the
allegations against him surfaced. Is he odd?
You betcha. Is he guilty? Nope. Not until the
process has been played out. The members of this site, more than most, must understand the concept. Current public opinion-(lynch mob mentality)-
is NOT what we want as the American standard of justice.

I am discouraged by the eagerness with which
many here have condemned him.

It is painfully clear that "innocent until proven guilty" is no longer part of our lexicon.

Now, we have the obligatory perp walk.
Just saw it on CNN. It doesn't need to be
long. It does need, however, to include the
drama of the suspect in cuffs.

WTF?? This man surrendered. He was not chased down and taken into custody.

Please don't give me the rap that it is for the officers' safety, or that it is department policy.

It was for the cameras. Image is everything.

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:31:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:36:11 PM EDT
It is "presumed innocent until proven guilty" not "innocent until proven guilty" There is a difference.
And do you think someone who settled for 20 million dollars is innocent? --that's not really the point, but usually when people get arrested, handcuffs are slapped on them.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:43:55 PM EDT
quicker rush to judgement my ass.

most people figured it out the first time he was accused of molesting young boys!

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:47:40 PM EDT
then you should have NO problem sending your kids to neverland for a sleep over with him.

Based on his past comments, actions, and allegations against him their is NO WAY IN HELL i would. He has mutilated his body and has ZERO awareness of the REAL WORLD.

At best he is a fucked up mental case. At worst a child molesting fucked up mental case. Kids don't need to be around either.

If he is found guilty i hope they drop the bomb on his freak ass!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:51:28 PM EDT

I heard on the radio some guy calling in asking why people weren't judging Whacko Jacko like they did the Dixie Chicks.
I asked myself, 'What planet does he live on?'
I didn't answer the question though.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:52:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Londo:
Michael Jackson may be the most vilified man in America right now.

I can't recall a quicker rush to judgement
than that which has taken place since the
allegations against him surfaced. Is he odd?
You betcha. Is he guilty? Nope. Not until the
process has been played out. The members of this site, more than most, must understand the concept. Current public opinion-(lynch mob mentality)-
is NOT what we want as the American standard of justice.

I am discouraged by the eagerness with which
many here have condemned him.

It is painfully clear that "innocent until proven guilty" is no longer part of our lexicon.

Now, we have the obligatory perp walk.
Just saw it on CNN. It doesn't need to be
long. It does need, however, to include the
drama of the suspect in cuffs.

WTF?? This man surrendered. He was not chased down and taken into custody.

Please don't give me the rap that it is for the officers' safety, or that it is department policy.

It was for the cameras. Image is everything.



this has got to be some sort of bad joke....
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:54:12 PM EDT
Not at all surprised by the responses so far;
keep them coming.

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:56:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 1:01:35 PM EDT by -Absolut-]
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:58:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Londo:
Now, we have the obligatory perp walk.
Just saw it on CNN. It doesn't need to be
long. It does need, however, to include the
drama of the suspect in cuffs.

WTF?? This man surrendered. He was not chased down and taken into custody.

Please don't give me the rap that it is for the officers' safety, or that it is department policy.




'cept it is for officer safety and policy.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:05:35 PM EDT
They CHANGED THE LAWS in CA after his first 'supposed' indescretion to make sure it didn't happen again. If they don't admit, you must aquit.

Think what you want, he may be a product of his environment/upbringing, but he's still a freak.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:15:19 PM EDT
Slap the braclets on his albino ass!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:21:18 PM EDT
They took his passport but isnt there some country in the Indian Ocean that will sell you citizenship for like 15 million? I bet he runs.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:22:24 PM EDT
In case you haven't heard it's standard to procedure to handcuff prisoners during transport...
--RR
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:27:32 PM EDT
Assault rifle?
WTF?? Who needs an ASSAULT rifle??
I saw on CNN today that they shoot a
thousand rounds a minute.
Darn right I'm against assault rifles.
No damn reason to have 'em in the hands of law
abiding folks......And don't bother; my mind is already made up. By the way. That freak
Michael Jackson is guilty as hell too.
I saw it on CNN.
String him up. String up all those assault rifle
terrorists too. Lets have a mass hanging. God bless America!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:29:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:31:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 1:32:17 PM EDT by Noname]
Yeah you guys! Quit being a bunch of meanies!

<­BR>

They could have at least used some of these cuffs on MikeyPoo...

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:33:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:33:51 PM EDT
I'm waiting for the mugshot photoshop thread.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:43:18 PM EDT
There are three dead LEO's in Florida because the detectives saw fit to handcuff the prisoner's hands IN FRONT OF HIM!
This was after he had shot his girlfriends son in the face but they thought it was an accident.
Handcuffed behind the back is the way to go.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:48:06 PM EDT
Yessir....and the perp walk(avoidable)
had nothing to do with the media presence.

Michael is guilty as charged. No trial
necessary. Hang him high.

In the court of public opinion, assault rifle owners are guilty as charged. Hang 'em high.
This is America. We decide nothing by law and
everything by public opinion.
Surrender your guns now.
For our safety, you will be handcuffed.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By offctr:
I'm waiting for the mugshot photoshop thread.



I think he has already done more damage in real life than ANY photoshopper could do.

FREAK!

mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:54:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 1:55:14 PM EDT by Old_Painless]
Hi Londo.

I see you're kind of new here. Welcome.

You might want to kinda brush up on something we call the Code of Conduct. Expecially item #6.


6.) No “trolling”. This means posting controversial or “valueless” topics simply to gain attention or anger other members. There is a big difference in a “trolling” topic and a thread started just to have fun!



Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:04:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 2:05:53 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By Londo: * * *
Current public opinion-(lynch mob mentality)-
is NOT what we want as the American standard of justice. * * *

I am discouraged by the eagerness with which
many here have condemned him.

It is painfully clear that "innocent until proven guilty" is no longer part of our lexicon.
* * *



Jeeze, don't they teach civics in schools anymore? "Innocent until proven guilty" is a legal principle. It only applies to triers of fact(juries and/or judges) in criminal cases. It has NEVER been applicable to anyone else, under any other circumstances. If it did apply to other people in other situations, they'd never arrest anybody, because in order for a person to be arrested a cop (and often a prosecutor as well) must believe the person is guilty -- AN UNCONVICTED PERSON . Surely you don't believe that cops customarily arrest people they believe to be innocent. If you do believe that, you surely don't think it's right for them to do so.

So, to cover what your 7th grade teacher missed, if you are a juror in a criminal trial, you must entertain the presumption that the defendant is innocent. Otherwise, if you are worried about the presumption of innocence, particularly in ordinary conversation, you are a whining nitwit. Clear?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
then you should have NO problem sending your kids to neverland for a sleep over with him.

Based on his past comments, actions, and allegations against him their is NO WAY IN HELL i would. He has mutilated his body and has ZERO awareness of the REAL WORLD.

At best he is a fucked up mental case. At worst a child molesting fucked up mental case. Kids don't need to be around either.

If he is found guilty i hope they drop the bomb on his freak ass!


Damn, that's a good post.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:18:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
They took his passport but isnt there some country in the Indian Ocean that will sell you citizenship for like 15 million? I bet he runs.


Atlantis. They stopped taking applications three thousand years ago.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 2:24:32 PM EDT
Old Painless...

Thanks for the reminder....

Not trolling, unless trolling is defined as
an honest difference of opinion.

I own a whole bunch of firearms, shoot IDPA,
took my first deer of the season two weeks ago,
will shoot Bambi's daddy (bucks only) this Saturday, teach hunter safety (22 years).
I have a carry permit and have carried every day for nineteen years. I have trained with a dozen professionals including Ayoob,Hackathorn,Cain,Cooley, etc.
I am also an endowment member of the NRA.

While I am a gunowner, I am also one who worries
about where we are headed as a nation.

My understanding of the concept has always been
that we "Do unto others....." and that everyone
is (presumed) innocent until proven otherwise.

What I have read on this forum is worrisome.



Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Londo:
Old Painless...

Thanks for the reminder....

Not trolling, unless trolling is defined as
an honest difference of opinion.



Nope. We have plenty of diferences of opinion.

You just happen to be wrong on this one.



I own a whole bunch of firearms, shoot IDPA, <snip>
I am also an endowment member of the NRA.



Good for you. Many of us are too.


While I am a gunowner, I am also one who worries
about where we are headed as a nation.



You will find many who agree with you. I also am worried about many things in recent history.

But I try to remember that we still live in the very best country that has ever existed on God's green earth.


My understanding of the concept has always been
that we "Do unto others....." and that everyone
is (presumed) innocent until proven otherwise.

What I have read on this forum is worrisome.




Don't worry too much. I agree that we should "do unto others, etc." I have no choice. God commands it.

If you will re-read several of the comments regarding the "presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" phrase, you will be educated. Many in our society mis-understand this concept.

As I have explained before, if a man goes into a store and shoots the lady behind the counter, he is "guilty" of murder as soon as she dies.

He will be arrested and have his day in court to be tried on the charges. He is "presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" by the judge and jury.

But if he really killed her, he is guilty before the trial ever starts. The "presumption" of innocence is for the court only.

The lack of sympathy for Jacko on this board is mostly because we don't tolerate child molesters very well here. And his past actions show that he is indeed a molester.

We hope he answers for his crimes in court. I am sure he will answer for them before God's throne.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 3:19:40 PM EDT
As for the "perp walk"... I think it would have been VERY difficult to have gotten him inside the jail without the press getting pictures. I'd be willing to bet the pictures we see are zoomed in from a safe distance. To have avoided any press coverage would have been to give him special treatment because he's a celebrity. The police didn't arrange the photo op... the hordes of media leeches that jump on this sort of thing took advantage of standard proceedure.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:29:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:37:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:28:55 PM EDT
I saw a dozen photo's and tapes of the
"Washington Area" snipers with a waist chain and the cuffs in front of them. I guess "Mikey" was dangerous enough to have his hands cuffed behind him.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:09:48 AM EDT
how about an answer to my question.

Would you let YOUR children attend a sleep over at MJ's ranch?

mike
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 6:08:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lokt:
It is "presumed innocent until proven guilty" not "innocent until proven guilty" There is a difference.
And do you think someone who settled for 20 million dollars is innocent? --that's not really the point, but usually when people get arrested, handcuffs are slapped on them.



IMO it is guilty until proven innocent, regardless of what the goverment says. Just look at the Peterson Case. If it was up to the media then any one considered of having commited a crime would be throwing in Jail. I just don't like it how the media can be very bias in some trial cases while making it harder for the jury not to be influenced by outside sources. I"m not saying Jacko is innocent, personally I think some type of punishment should be dealt...but the media can take things a little far and f*ck up the truth more than what it already is. It's like being in highschool and rumors being spread.
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