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Posted: 5/10/2001 3:25:21 PM EDT
About 18,000 pages of discovery it seems were never given to the defence, much less presented to the jury. [url]http://cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,290654-412,00.shtml[/url] Looks like McVeigh wont get his death wish any time soon.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:26:47 PM EDT
FBI Withheld McVeigh Evidence Defense Attorneys Weren't Given Nearly 200 Pieces Of Evidence McVeigh's Lawyers Considering Asking For Stay Of Execution FBI Probing Why Materials Weren't Disclosed WASHINGTON, May 10, 2001 AP / CBS McVeigh's would be the first federal execution since 1963. (CBS) Federal officials have informed the judge who sentenced Timothy McVeigh to death that the FBI mistakenly withheld nearly 200 pieces of evidence from defense attorneys in the Oklahoma City bombing trial, CBS News has learned. McVeigh and his attorneys were also informed. The attorneys tell CBS News they are actively considering filing for a stay of execution. CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports that some of the evidence appears to be original FBI interviews done in the hours and days immediately after the bombing. An FBI spokesman told CBS News that the bureau does not know at this time why the material was not turned over, and is conducting an internal investigation to determine how such an error occurred. The evidence was discovered in a recent search of the bureau's archives and consists of FBI 302 forms, which are reports of interviews and sworn statements by investigators.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:28:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 3:29:04 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
More than 18,000 such forms were generated by investigators during the Oklahoma City investigation. It is possible some of the recently discovered forms are duplicates. None of the new material is considered favorable to McVeigh, but to withhold evidence either by design or by accident is a serious matter and potentially could lead to a hearing that would delay the execution. In most cases, a disclosure that evidence was withheld would make a motion for a new trial almost certain. At a minimum, that would involve a hearing that would delay the death sentence. But that is up to McVeigh and his attorneys. McVeigh has said he wants to die. It is not known what he has conveyed to his attorneys, and he might tell his defense team not to interfere. Oklahoma City survivors, meanwhile, were stunned by the late development. "It'll set everybody back several steps," said survivor Glenda Riley. "I really think it'll set everybody back." McVeigh is scheduled to die by lethal injection at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Ind., at 7 a.m. CST on May 16. His execution would be the first federal death penalty administered since 1963. It will broadcast on closed circuit television so survivors and families of those killed can watch.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:36:20 PM EDT
Woo hoo!
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:38:15 PM EDT
Even more important than the impact this may have on the McVeigh case proper, what will this do with regards to the use of the death penalty as a whole in this country? It is becoming damn near impossible to give some one the chair here without afterwards finding out that the Police did something or other to taint the case. Lost evidence, hidden evidence, uninterviewed witnesses, not disclosing that they paid their CI's. What are we going to do about this?
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:53:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 4:39:21 PM EDT by Joe Blacke]
So, how many times in the last few years has this happened? How many times did the FBI crime lab have to answer for improper procedure? I have no problem with meting out the appropriate punishment for a guilty person, but with the faults in our current system, it seems negligent to impose the death penalty. I'm always reminded by the words made famous by one judge, "You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich".
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 3:55:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 3:55:53 PM EDT by the_survivalist]
and you're surprised??
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:19:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:21:32 PM EDT
Christ Almighty....what the fuck is wrong with you people?.........[heavy]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:26:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2001 4:36:26 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:27:11 PM EDT
Before everyone gets in a lather, let's see what it is.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:31:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRY G: Before everyone gets in a lather, let's see what it is.
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The "it", in regards to discovery, is any important item that the defense can use on their own behalf. Typically, it deals with such items that the prosecution would use to obtain a conviction, any incriminating evidence, or evidence to innocence. Typically, witness lists, items of evidence, and such. Basically, these items can be used by the defense to formulate a plan of action. The term is "exculpatory"(sp).
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:34:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:37:52 PM EDT
Yeah, and the diesel fuel leaked into the fertilizer, give the guy a break, shit happens! Right! -Jared
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:41:06 PM EDT
Of course i DO NOT mean YOU who are reading this, i mean YOU GENERAL PUBLIC STUPID ASSHOLES....... WHEN THE HELL ARE YOU BLIND IGNORANT COMFORATBLE TAX PAYING HAPPY ASSHOLES GOING TO REALIZE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON????????????????????? I APPOLOGIZE TO THOSE WHO TAKE OFFENSE.....AND I SAY NOW THAT I WILL NOT POST ANY MORE OFFENSIVE ATTITUDES ON THIS SITE.....I ONLY WISH THAT THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE SERIOUS, POSITIVE INPUT, THAT HAVE BEEN DISCOURAGED BY THE "GROUPIE" MENTALITY (FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM) EITHER RETURN WITH "OPEN MINDEDNESS" OR LET IT DIE.......THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO ADD!!!!!....BLACK&GREEN.....A TOTALLY COMMITED "CITIZEN" TO THE CAUSE......"I AM NOT A SELFISH PERSON"......( NOT CONCERNED THAT BEING ON THIS SITE MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE IN MY PERSONAL EFFORTS IN SUPPORTING THE RKBA....IT DOES NOT!!!!!!!).......[frag]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:44:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By black&green: Christ Almighty....what the fuck is wrong with you people?.........[heavy]
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Please elaborate about "you people." I can only speak for myself . . . here goes: I was conceived on my parent's honeymoon and was never really a "wanted" child. Also, I was not breast fed and have spent over 40 years trying to get (keep) my mouth on a breast. Then there's the time . . .
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Well guess what.....life is tough for a lot more of us assholes too.....[pyro]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:44:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:48:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:54:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By black&green: Well guess what.....life is tough for a lot more of us assholes too.....[pyro]
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Lighten up, Francis! That was an attempt at humor. Perhaps you need someone to point out bluntly that you are not making sense tonight. I hope you're okay. [:)]
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OKAY.....THEN GIVE ME A LITTLE SUPPORT.........BUDDY...?????.....
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 4:57:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:05:53 PM EDT
O K ....Let me rephrase.....When you (me) are very hard with you`re feelings...about mcviegh.....(lived about 100 miles from where I live)....AND some of the "numerous" other assholes (nightly shootings and violence against children)...and i am not kidding....AND.. the daily wrong "practices" i see.....day in and day out......then there are times when MYSELF....will "wig out" on you guys, and i can only appologize, and thank you for pointing it out or supporting me with it, as up to this point, i have no idea whether our not i HAVE any support, even though i am definitely on the same page as all of you.... sorry, bad day i guess... but if you think i am not serious, then come to this part of the world and see HOW BADLY WE ARE OPPRESSED!!!!
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:14:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
OKAY.....THEN GIVE ME A LITTLE SUPPORT.........BUDDY...?????.....
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I'm on your side. OF COURSE! I just didn't "get" your first post. You and I communicate about like me and my wife. Hmmm . . . starting to think it might be me. Damn! [:(]
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Guess maybe that`s why i`m divorced now, after 25 years.....thinkin` i need to sell off half my guns, get a bike, and book on down to va. or nc. ...don`t know....anyway...n.y. politics has REALLY taken a RAPE on my life!....NO BULLSHIT....do you have ANY idea what it takes to keep a "good job" in n.y. state?........[grenade].......P.S....i`m 50 yrs old now....NO that easy to pick up roots.......it ain`t only me,....that`s why i`m so hard on the political pos`s....we`re ALL in trouble................[frag]...besides....i deal with them pos`s EVERY DAY.....and i hope they hear me say it.....
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:14:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Joe Blacke: The "it", in regards to discovery, is any important item that the defense can use on their own behalf. Typically, it deals with such items that the prosecution would use to obtain a conviction, any incriminating evidence, or evidence to innocence. Typically, witness lists, items of evidence, and such. Basically, these items can be used by the defense to formulate a plan of action. The term is "exculpatory"(sp).
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Actually, the evidence "the prosecution would use to obtain a conviction" is called [i]inculpatory[/i] evidence. This is the opposite of [i]exculpatory[/i] evidence which means evidence that tends [i]to exculpate[/i], ie. evidence consistent with a theory of innocence. It would be hard to imagine that there was exculpatory evidence withheld (it was a CONFESSION CASE, albeit mostly post-conviction) in this case. However, you never know- it does happen. Exculpatory evidence is also called "Brady material", after a US Sup. Ct. case that requires such material to be disclosed by the government in a criminal case. BTW, there's also "Giglio material" which is named after a Sup. Ct. case that held the government must divulge credibility problems with their own witnesses (governmental that is). In the end, it's a lot of bullshit about nothing. It was a confession case, even if post conviction- I could care less about documents not supplied to the defense in this case (caveat: I said "this case").
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 6:54:01 PM EDT
Damn Steve, that is the second time in two days that you said I was wrong. That's it. I'm going to have to dig up all my old Criminal law, Constitutional Law, Rules of Evidence, Rules of Procedure Notes and textbooks. Maybe it would help if I would have studied the first time around. I can't keep looking like an ass.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:04:51 PM EDT
Sorry Joe, I've been on a nit-picking spree the last two days. Just ignore me. I like your posts and your input. I did it to RK last night as well.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:15:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:19:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Hey guys, accuracy counts. Not just on the range. I like being corrected when I am full of it. If I'm the most knowledgeable one here we are in BIIIIIGG trouble. [beer]
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ME TOO!...besides, we have diesel AND fertilizer where i work!!!!!!!.....[grenade]
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:23:50 PM EDT
I knew that those dumb shits would find a way to make it seem as if justice was going to be served, and at the last minute due to "an error" we have the possibility of seeing this boy walk. You can't screw with rules of evidence, discovery can blast your case if you even miss giving one piece of crucial evidence to the defense. My last homicide required that I list every piece of evidence, every statement, every note made by an officer at the scene even his personal files if they contained even a small reference to the case. I've said it before, there was to much of a screwed up investigation, destruction of evidence without proper analysis, missing news tape, failure to pursue the "second" suspect, a cause that just died without an explanation once dumb shit was arrested. Can you imagine anyone after the bombing that was so dumb as to keep a weapon in plain sight when a trooper just happened to stop him (McVeigh). Are we really to believe that this was an accident. It has been said that nothing happens by accident in government. This is no accident. Someones head(s) need to roll.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 7:55:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By t rex: My last homicide required that I list every piece of evidence,
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How many times have you killed in the past? JUST KIDDIN
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 10:05:32 PM EDT
So the press is speculating about this. I expect McVeigh might have a change of heart and want a stay in the mistaken belief he has a chance of getting off. The book could prove his undoing in this, though, as it seems to undermine any chances of successfully claiming he wasn't really guilty after all and was just a victim of poor representation. [red][size=4]P.R.K.
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