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Posted: 11/17/2003 9:44:30 AM EDT
Why did some Military forces (ie. French and British) adopt the Bullpup configuration as standad issue?
What are the pros (and cons) of it for that particular task?

Thanx for the input!

NsB
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:48:15 AM EDT
France has a military??

The pluses are they are alot shorter....and uglier. Maybe thats why France and Britsh have them...they match the soldiers looks.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:12:20 AM EDT
deimos,
It's a good question and I'm sure there are good reasons. Probably any decent book about military small arms can give you a better answer than I can. But off the top of my head I think one of the main things is that the bullpup is much more compact. And compactness is probably THE main overall trend in military weaponry. On the negative side, I feel there that in the U.S. military there has always been resistance to the idea of putting the receiver of a firearm right next to the soldier's head. Maybe it's a throwback to the days of the Trapdoor Springfield rifle and other guns which were known to occassionally (rarely) blow up. Also, the early bullpup designs were not designed in such a way as to let you change over the ejection port to fit left handed shooters. The newer ones can be switched over (I believe the French gun can be easily switched). Also, even for right handed shooters, brass can come flying back into the shooters face if he's using a nearby wall on his righthand side for cover.
For sure, I haven't exhausted this topic.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:01:52 AM EDT
By deimos:


Why did some Military forces (ie. French and British) adopt the Bullpup configuration as standad issue?


I know you're not supposed to answer a question with a question, but in this case, please make an exception...Is it because it's the only reason some militaries are noticed at all?

To sum it up: Beats me. (*Shrug)

Sly
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:09:26 AM EDT
I think that Aussies also use a bullpup (the Steyr).

The main advantage is that you can fit a longer barrel in a shorter rifle, and it is generally better balanced (more weight centered over the grip as opposed to in front of the grip). My busmaster M17S is several inches shorter than my bushmaster AR - but the bullpup has a 21.5" barrel, whereas the longer carbine has a 16" barrel. The bullpup is also balanced better, and I can shoot it one-handed, which is really difficult with a full length AR with a 20" barrel.

As some people pointed out, the downside for some is that the ejection port is too close to the shooter, making it difficult for lefty's to shoot (although some like the FAMAS allow a simple conversion to change the side of ejection) - and I guess a catastrophic failure of the firearm woudl be more severe in a bullpup. Some people also just hate the look - or simply fear change and thus don't like them.

Personally I love them - and I would give one of my testicles for a British SA-80.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:17:53 AM EDT
longer barrel = more velocity
With a bullpup you can have the longer barrel in a smaller package.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:36:21 AM EDT
So you think this is a trend other armed forces will follow?

Why the US won't addopt a BP configuration instead the new rifle?
How much extra trining you need to get used to a BP if you're already familiarized with a regular rifle?

Hey DK, I modified my avatar so you could still see the lil cat, just stare at Thora a couple of seconds and she'll show you her gasping pussy

NsB
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:39:12 AM EDT
Gosh DK-Prof, even one of the ones that haven't been tuned by HK up to decent standards?

IMA WMD :-
> Is it because it's the only reason some
> militaries are noticed at all?

Thats a little harsh, who were the first bunch of lads onto the beach after you guys into Iraq then? Clue: I didnt see any French there.


As to choosing the bullpup? At the time it was probably because we were fighting Patrolling so much in Northern Ireland, and all the squaddies were requesting shorter barrelled weapons so that they could manouver in urban area's more easily.

AS I understand it though, the SA-80 weapon is heavier than the FAL / L1A1/ SLR that it replaced, which seemed kinda crazy to me.
And the Buzby's do look a little silly with a bayonet attached to one, but still.

/Phil


Link Posted: 11/17/2003 12:00:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I think that Aussies also use a bullpup (the Steyr).




Irish Free State also uses AUGs, but a different version than the Aussies.

I like bullpups. It's a neat idea.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 12:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 12:24:08 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Said it before...

Sucky, breakage prone triggers.
Slow, awkward magazine changes
No shooting off your weak shoulder (waiting for an AUG fan to come along and discuss converting it which is possibly the head-up the ass dumbest thing Ive ever heard....if I NEED to shoot off my left shoulder I sure as shit dont have time to be dinking around with tearing down my gun to switch bolts and reciever covers).


The bullpup concept has been around A LONG time. It certainly hasnt taken the military or civilian longarm world by storm.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:53:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By equin0x:
Gosh DK-Prof, even one of the ones that haven't been tuned by HK up to decent standards?



Yes, even the old ones. I had an opportunity to shoot and see them used in the field in the 1980s (long before the upgrades), and while the upgraded ones are better, I'd still take an orginal SA-80 carbine or L85A1 rifle.

My impression was that most of the problems were in extreme conditions (read desert & arctic), and much of the bitching was the same you got in any army when soldiers had to give up the old "tried and true" system in favour of the newfangled modern stuff. (Much as many US troops complained about the M16 when it replaced the M14).



AS I understand it though, the SA-80 weapon is heavier than the FAL / L1A1/ SLR that it replaced, which seemed kinda crazy to me.



That's actually incorrect. The SA-80 weighs about 4.1 kg empty, the FAL weights about 4.5 kg empty. (and of course .308 ammo weights much more than .223 ammo). Of course, much iof the weight in a rifle is in the barrel, and since the bullpup has an equal-length barrel, you really shouldn't expect it to weigh a LOT less - the benfit is in the compactness and the balance, not necessarily in weight.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deimos:
Hey DK, I modified my avatar so you could still see the lil cat, just stare at Thora a couple of seconds and she'll show you her gasping pussy




Right now I don't see squat, since the servers appears to be having problems, but I'll be keeping an eye on it!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:10:36 PM EDT
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