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Posted: 11/17/2003 6:38:48 AM EDT
The person basically said that even though the 9th circuit court said it was unconstitutional the ATF would still go with congress uphold 922(o)
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:40:29 AM EDT
Huh? Your sentance is unclear.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:40:41 AM EDT
You do know phone calls mean absolutely dick, right?
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:41:15 AM EDT
And this surprises anyone why?
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:42:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Huh? Your sentance is unclear.



He said the ATF will deny all form 1's.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:43:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
You do know phone calls mean absolutely dick, right?


That's right. If you're dealing with the government, get it in writing. Otherwise it is meaningless.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:52:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Huh? Your sentance is unclear.



Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:56:18 AM EDT
So the ATF would laugh in the face of the decision and still enforce what is in the states under the 9th, an unconstitutional law? No way, wow who would have thought the ATF of all federal agencies would do that
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:01:31 AM EDT
What we need is a pro-2nd Amendment lawyer to submit a Form 1 and start the fight...
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:06:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hinckley:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Huh? Your sentance is unclear.




Sorry!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:23:13 AM EDT
We need a Constitution which both limits the power of the government, federally and in the states, and a method of checks and balances to prohibit one branch of the government from getting too powerful.

Oh wait, that's what we had 40 years ago

What we have now is a former Republic in which all three branches of government ignore the 10th and 14th Admendments and only comment on each other when one of them is getting in the way - all three branches are expanding their powers as quickly and as broadly as they can.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:27:05 AM EDT
If someone wants to start a fight between the 9th and the ATF, file a form 1 for a reciever tube... Then file a suit in federal court when they deny you...

Of course, unless you're a lawyer, it's gonna cost you...

There may be a way to merely file a complaint, but I think it has to be a full blown lawsuit...
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:30:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By illigb:
What we need is a pro-2nd Amendment lawyer to submit a Form 1 and start the fight...



This is actually happening as you speak.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:36:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:

Originally Posted By illigb:
What we need is a pro-2nd Amendment lawyer to submit a Form 1 and start the fight...



This is actually happening as you speak.



We need to get details posted. I, for one, would be willing to contribute this person's expenses related to fighting this battle.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:38:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By illigb:

Originally Posted By CS223:

Originally Posted By illigb:
What we need is a pro-2nd Amendment lawyer to submit a Form 1 and start the fight...



This is actually happening as you speak.



We need to get details posted. I, for one, would be willing to contribute this person's expenses related to fighting this battle.



As would I
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:57:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rasanders22:
The person basically said that even though the 9th circuit court said it was unconstitutional the ATF would still go with congress uphold 922(o)




You should have asked that idiot if they're going to start enforcing prohibition law again as well.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:07:30 AM EDT
Was just reading subguns.com

They have a few people filing form1s from AZ...

Hopefully someone's rich enough, connected enough, or POed enough to make themselves a test case...
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:09:52 AM EDT
Shocking
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:19:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By illigb:

Originally Posted By CS223:

Originally Posted By illigb:
What we need is a pro-2nd Amendment lawyer to submit a Form 1 and start the fight...



This is actually happening as you speak.



We need to get details posted. I, for one, would be willing to contribute this person's expenses related to fighting this battle.



As would I



Now we just need it to spread to the other circuits...

Since the govt won't appeal, this means someone's gotta test-case themselves (file form 1 & get denied) in every circuit, and sue the ATF claiming 922(o) to be unconstitutional...

However, it would be nice, in a few years, to be able to devise some 'novel' device for converting an AK or AR to FA, or to see how many different ways an aluminum tube and Sten barrel/bolt/magwell can become a MG...

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:38:24 AM EDT
1: Have a lawyer obtain a certified copy of the ruling.

2: Have the lawyer get it notarized, and cosign it.

3: Have the lawyer draft up an explanatory note.

4: Have the lawyer send this notarized, certified copy of the ruling, the note, and your Form 1 to the ATF.

See what sticks.

CJ
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:42:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
1: Have a lawyer obtain a certified copy of the ruling.

2: Have the lawyer get it notarized, and cosign it.

3: Have the lawyer draft up an explanatory note.

4: Have the lawyer send this notarized, certified copy of the ruling, the note, and your Form 1 to the ATF.

See what sticks.


Heheheh. You got that right.

Bring it on, bitch.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:09:24 AM EDT
Just whose country is this, anyway??? What happened to "We The People"? When did it become "We the .gov"?
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:42:09 AM EDT
No shit...

When we have a revenue agency posing as a police force AND using deadly force to selectively enforce laws that may or may not be unconstitutional regardless of what the legislative OR judicial branches rule, we have got a police state on our hands.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:49:03 AM EDT
Sorry for not know, i need to be shot, Whats the deal with this 922(o) and form 1's. Please explain. Thanks...

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 9:54:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By labrat454:
Sorry for not know, i need to be shot, Whats the deal with this 922(o) and form 1's. Please explain. Thanks...




A form 1 is a tax paid application to make and register a firearm, in this case a machinegun. 922(o) is the legislation prohibiting the registration of any new machineguns (transferrables) to anything other than le or military (government) entities.

922(o) has been ruled unconstitutional in the 9th circuit. If it stands that means cheap machineguns again in the future.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:12:29 AM EDT
First if it holds up and we can do the MG thing cheap again that great. The only thing I see is if it is held up the ATF NFA branch will delay even more that they do now and it will be forever before the form 1 comes back. I say this as I wait for my form 4 for my sound suppressor to come back from atf.

If it does get held up and form 1's are approved, I will be machining like mad.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:30:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By labrat454:
First if it holds up and we can do the MG thing cheap again that great. The only thing I see is if it is held up the ATF NFA branch will delay even more that they do now and it will be forever before the form 1 comes back. I say this as I wait for my form 4 for my sound suppressor to come back from atf.

If it does get held up and form 1's are approved, I will be machining like mad.




This won't go to the USSC. So you'll have to get a similar ruling in your circuit...
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:39:39 AM EDT
With the current make-up of SCOTUS, are you sure you want a ruling? This may also give more ammo to passing the AWB and extending it to machine guns. Also, what about silencers?
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 12:55:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Camp_Ninja:
And this surprises anyone why?



My thoughts exactly. Not like it was an abortion ruling or free speech or something, in which case they wpuld jump through hoops to abide by instantly.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:51:06 AM EDT
We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:59:45 AM EDT
Why don't we have everyone pitch in $5 or so? Have the forum get a laywer and go from there... I'm sure there is enough people on here and who are willing to raise enough money.
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