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Posted: 11/14/2003 5:58:52 PM EDT
What do you guys think of it?


NsB
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:02:36 PM EDT
I saw "Beau Geste."

They kick ass.

They beat you if you can't learn to speak frog fast enough.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:13:56 PM EDT
A very intriguing outfit, for sure.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:17:53 PM EDT
Douglas Porch has a very interesting book that is a history of The French Foreign Legion. Very well researched I thought.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:20:36 PM EDT
Some of the few useful "French" folks around.

Although France likes to treat them as "disposable" soldiers.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:25:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
Although France likes to treat them as "disposable" soldiers.



Yep

I've been toying with the idea of joining them for some months... Not right now, but as an open option in the future.

NsB
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:27:17 PM EDT
I met a couple of guys who had apparently served their term, after leaving the Danish army.

They said it could be really, really rough. Maybe they were just trying to scare me with how tough they were According to what they told me, if you weren't the kind of kid who had grown up in a tough neighborhood and were used to fighting on a daily basis, you'd just be ass-raped on a regular basis by the other soldiers. It was about that time I decided NOT to join up myself, and actually do something smart with my life and get an education.

Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:32:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
According to what they told me, if you weren't the kind of kid who had grown up in a tough neighborhood and were used to fighting on a daily basis, you'd just be ass-raped on a regular basis by the other soldiers. It was about that time I decided NOT to join up myself, and actually do something smart with my life and get an education.



Damn!!! Is that for real?
(note to self, train in some martial art for a year before joining them if ever decide to do that)

NsB
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:37:30 PM EDT
Spend some time learning French too - what sherm8404 says is apparently largely true. Btw - don't plan on a "career" beyond a grunt. While the legionnaires come from all over, only French citizens can become officers.

Also keep in mind that they get many more applicants than they need. A lot of former professional soldiers go to the legion, so it might be tough to get in.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:40:10 PM EDT
So what the hell do they DO? It's not like CNN gives regular updates on their deployment...
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:42:27 PM EDT
Don't you lose your citizenship if you join another country's military?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:43:37 PM EDT
I don't know why the Legionnaires need to act like queers - the Legion supplies whores that accompany them on tour.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:45:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 7:01:47 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I met a couple of guys who had apparently served their term, after leaving the Danish army.

They said it could be really, really rough. Maybe they were just trying to scare me with how tough they were According to what they told me, if you weren't the kind of kid who had grown up in a tough neighborhood and were used to fighting on a daily basis, you'd just be ass-raped on a regular basis by the other soldiers. It was about that time I decided NOT to join up myself, and actually do something smart with my life and get an education.



I dont think it's that bad. And the NCO's aren't as brutal as they used to be, but it's not a holiday. It's tough, it's hard, it's the French Foreign Legion. The NCO's are allowed to beat you if they dont think you're doing well enough, whether in singing, learning French, or conditioning and they do it.

From what I know about it, life in the Legion is tedious more than anything else. The tasks are menial, life is utterly regimented, and they're more concerned with tidyness and sharp personal appearance than anything else (like say, combat training).

Here's a discussion board with former Legionnaires and wannabes who ask them questions: www.cervens.net/cgi-bin/webbbs_config.pl?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:46:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
I don't know why the Legionnaires need to act like queers - the Legion supplies whores that accompany them on tour.



Not any more.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:50:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sanchezero:
So what the hell do they DO? It's not like CNN gives regular updates on their deployment...



They've got something like 8 regiments, about 8,000-10,000 men total. One or two infantry and armored regiments based in France. An airborne regiment based on Corsica. A regiment assigned to guard the European spaceport in French Guyana. A regiment based in Djibouti to secure that strategic strait where France's oil supply passes through.

Right now there are Legionnaires deployed in Ivory Coast fighting a rebellion, and Legion infantry units in the Balkans and Macedonia doing peacekeeper work.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:54:33 PM EDT
Because they are convicts and criminals on the run from every shit country on the globe. They are filled with arabs trying to get french citizenship. Thats why you join, to start your life over.

They also have a real problem with "yanks" joining simply because when things go bad you can allways run back home. The people from shit countries dont have that option.

As a result americans often get weeded out during the interview process. If you are not good at learning new languages don't join. Their idea of teaching is beating the shit out of you.

I was toying with the idea of joining, after I looked at a few books I said fuck that!

If you wan't adventure find it on your own, you will be much more happy in the end. Rather than being an abused slave to France.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:56:00 PM EDT

Spend some time learning French too - what sherm8404 says is apparently largely true. Btw - don't plan on a "career" beyond a grunt. While the legionnaires come from all over, only French citizens can become officers.

I know some French, but I'm planing on improve it (non Legion related).
Since I already got an education, this would be a last resort, if all else fails, well, there's the Legion, so to speak.


Don't you lose your citizenship if you join another country's military?

I already have Argentine and Spanish, but I wouldn't mind at all.

Thanx for the link/info raven (may I ask why are so familiarized with it or you just look it up now?)

NsB
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 6:59:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RomaRana:
Because they are convicts and criminals on the run from every shit country on the globe. They are filled with arabs trying to get french citizenship. Thats why you join, to start your life over.



Actually, my impression is that those days are long over. As far as I understand, while they still take criminals, they do check your background with Interpol, and will not take really serious criminals.

Now that they are considered an elite unit, they can pick and choose from applicants, and do not settle for trash and outcasts.

I've NEVER heard that they are full of arabs, btw. Maybe they are, and I just didn't realize it.



They also have a real problem with "yanks" joining simply because when things go bad you can allways run back home. The people from shit countries dont have that option.



Never heard that one either - but if a lot of the "yanks" are dumb kids who think it's going to be an advanture, I imagine they try to weed those out. but my guess is they get those from every country.


But what do I know? - what I think I know about the legion might be out of date (or based on exagerrations of those I have met).
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:05:06 PM EDT
I'm not making up what I said. Just repeating what I saw in books on joining.

Not only arabs but lots of eastern europeans also.

From what I read they will take anthing but the most serious criminals.

Expect rapists, theives etc
Many people join under an assumed name.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:08:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deimos:

Thanx for the link/info raven (may I ask why are so familiarized with it or you just look it up now?)

NsB



I've been thinking about joining for about 3 years. I'm 30 and always wanted to join the military. If I'm ever going to do it, I have to do it soon.

For various reasons I dont want to discuss, I couldn't realistically join the US military. But I could join the Legion. They wouldn't care.

At the very least, I could get in the 4 months of training for the experience and adventure (like an extreme vacation) and then desert at the first opportunity.

I have a couple of issues with the Legion, chiefly because they serve the French government, which I dont like.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:10:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 7:18:22 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



They also have a real problem with "yanks" joining simply because when things go bad you can allways run back home. The people from shit countries dont have that option.



Never heard that one either - but if a lot of the "yanks" are dumb kids who think it's going to be an advanture, I imagine they try to weed those out. but my guess is they get those from every country.



These days, the Legion is mainly composed of Eastern Europeans who have no opportunities or prospects in their homelands. They dont look down on American applicants, Western Europeans/North Americans are a little more favored in the interest of diversity. But they fuck with their heads more, do everything they can to discourage them and get them to turn away. They tell them they'll never see action, that they'll work in kitchens and clean toilets, that they'll never make money or travel overseas. Whatever it takes to get the unmotivated and uncommitted or uncertain to give up and go home.

They dont have to do that with Eastern Europeans or Africans, because life in the Legion is better than anything back home, and you get French citizenship at the end of your 5-year contract.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:11:16 PM EDT
Once again I don't know what the hell I'm talking about ! Sorry
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:20:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

I've been thinking about joining for about 3 years. I'm 30 and always wanted to join the military. If I'm ever going to do it, I have to do it soon.

For various reasons I dont want to discuss, I couldn't realistically join the US military. But I could join the Legion. They wouldn't care.

At the very least, I could get in the 4 months of training for the experience and adventure (like an extreme vacation) and then desert at the first opportunity.

I have a couple of issues with the Legion, chiefly because they serve the French government, which I dont like.




Raven,

Have you ever looked in to joning the IDF?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:26:52 PM EDT
I'm not a Jew.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:32:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 7:34:14 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Even if the Foreign Legion were a top-notch outfit to work for...why would anyone (in their right mind) want to submit to french control? Bunch of surrender monkey, ass-backwards european politicians ready to tell you to fight the germans while they surrender.

You're disposable if you aren't french.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:35:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
I'm not a Jew.



You dont have to be!
There are many non-jews in the IDF. Plenty of them have high ranking roles as well.

If you would like a non-jewish IDF soilder contact to talk to let me know.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:37:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 9:11:20 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
Even if the Foreign Legion were a top-notch outfit to work for...why would anyone (in their right mind) want to submit to french control? Bunch of surrender monkey, ass-backwards european politicians ready to tell you to fight the germans while they surrender.

You're disposable if you aren't french.



I know. And they send you off to some hellhole in Africa to keep French-speaking negroes from dying in the genocide du jour. Forgot the Legion's in Congo now doing that very mission.

You've got to be crazy or desperate to join. I'm a little from column A and a little from column B.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:44:45 PM EDT
I worked with a guy that was former ffl. He is from the Czech Republic and wanted to go to school in France.

I did catch him saying f*#ing French a couple of times, although I'm sure it was directed at our pain in the ass French boss.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:46:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By raven:
I'm not a Jew.



You dont have to be!
There are many non-jews in the IDF. Plenty of them have high ranking roles as well.

If you would like a non-jewish IDF soilder contact to talk to let me know.


I'm interested.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:50:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By raven:
I'm not a Jew.



You dont have to be!
There are many non-jews in the IDF. Plenty of them have high ranking roles as well.

If you would like a non-jewish IDF soilder contact to talk to let me know.


I'm interested.



Another option I considered when I was young and crazy was the SLA (south lebanese army) - which was essentially a mercenary army in south lebanon that fought for Israel and helped secure their northern border.

Don't know if they still exist - but that might also be a possibility for those of you that want "adventure"
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 7:59:58 PM EDT
You may laugh at me but if you want adventure....The peace corps.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 8:19:27 PM EDT
I'm not exactly looking for adventure. I don't think I would fit in very well in the Peace Corps.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 8:26:37 PM EDT
Neither do I... Not to mention I'm not a US citizen.

NsB
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 8:57:46 PM EDT
The Neutral Observer was rejected for service in the IDF due to the fact that He was a foreign national and not jewish. Having an Israeli wife did not factor into the equation at all. This rejection occured despite the current Palestinian uprising, the fact that the IDF is stretched thin with regards to manpower, and is a conscript army with no senior NCO's, and officers not much older than the soldiers they lead.

From what The Neutral Observer has been told, Israel is having a severe budget crisis and cannot afford to pay enlisted men the required amount to re-enlist. During their first term of service, conscripts are paid a small amount only. The pay increases to a reasonable amount if the soldier chooses to re-enlist. However, due to the budget crises, soldiers are actually being discouraged from re-enlisting. This may be in part why the IDF is relying on large numbers of reserve personell at the current time.

Most of the non-jewish members of the IDF are Druze, and Arab members of the desert patrol, and all of these are Israelis. The Neutral Observer has heard of Americans serving in the IDF in the past, but according to the Israeli embassy, this is not done anymore. Even American-born Jews have difficulty joining now.

This is what The Neutral Observer has heard through official and unofficial channels. Some of this information may be incorrect. There are, at the least, certainly exceptions to this rule, and The Neutral Observer is also interested in hearing about them.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 2:44:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 2:45:12 AM EDT by cduarte]
here's my foreign legion souvenir, purchased at the legion base px in Abeche in the summer of '93. FYI, the legion mission in Chad is called Operation Epervier (sparrowhawk).



here's a page I found with some legion pics in it.



ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jeep_man/2011.htm
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 2:52:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
I'm not exactly looking for adventure. I don't think I would fit in very well in the Peace Corps.



the peace corps is not about fitting in with other volunteers, it's about bringing america to the rest of the world. It is our most cost effective foreign relations program, interestingly enough it has gotten better funding under Bush I and II than under clinton. I think this is because they recognize it's true value. My experience, due to where I served, gave me a taste for adventure and I often think about working overseas again. Right now, that's not going to happen, since I'm married with a child, but I can still think about it. I had a great deal of "adventure" over there and I sometimes wonder how I didn't get killed. I did enjoy the experience and am permanently changed for it. IM me for more info, I'm probably the only returned Peace Corps volunteer here. BTW, I served in Chad from '91-93.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 3:35:15 AM EDT
Raven, just bring that picture of your avatar with you and tell them that it is a picture of you, taken on a "good" day. They'll take you.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 6:02:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
The Neutral Observer was rejected for service in the IDF due to the fact that He was a foreign national and not jewish. Having an Israeli wife did not factor into the equation at all. This rejection occured despite the current Palestinian uprising, the fact that the IDF is stretched thin with regards to manpower, and is a conscript army with no senior NCO's, and officers not much older than the soldiers they lead.

From what The Neutral Observer has been told, Israel is having a severe budget crisis and cannot afford to pay enlisted men the required amount to re-enlist. During their first term of service, conscripts are paid a small amount only. The pay increases to a reasonable amount if the soldier chooses to re-enlist. However, due to the budget crises, soldiers are actually being discouraged from re-enlisting. This may be in part why the IDF is relying on large numbers of reserve personell at the current time.

Most of the non-jewish members of the IDF are Druze, and Arab members of the desert patrol, and all of these are Israelis. The Neutral Observer has heard of Americans serving in the IDF in the past, but according to the Israeli embassy, this is not done anymore. Even American-born Jews have difficulty joining now.

This is what The Neutral Observer has heard through official and unofficial channels. Some of this information may be incorrect. There are, at the least, certainly exceptions to this rule, and The Neutral Observer is also interested in hearing about them.




Sherm8404 has noted The Neutral Observer likes speaking in the third person.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 6:33:00 PM EDT
Why would anyone want to be a soldier? You're constantly under someone else's control. I would not be able to stand that.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:43:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Why would anyone want to be a soldier? You're constantly under someone else's control. I would not be able to stand that.



When one of my younger brothers was fresh out of HS and trying to figure out what to do I recommended doing an enlistment in the military (I had been in the USAF a couple years then). He replied, "I thought about that, but I don't like people telling me what to do."

Guess what he's had in every job in his life? Yep.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 4:19:31 AM EDT
It will ot give a current picture of the FFL, but the book "Hell in a Very Small Place- the Seige of Dien Bien Phu" is an excellent, factual read.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:17:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By raven:
I'm not a Jew.



You dont have to be!
There are many non-jews in the IDF. Plenty of them have high ranking roles as well.

If you would like a non-jewish IDF soilder contact to talk to let me know.



The cheat, said this on another thread...


I tried to volunteer for the IDF a few weeks ago, Since I'm not jewish I can't fight They have to be able to trace your bloodline or something like that.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=214999&page=2
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 12:25:18 AM EDT
i heard Spain has a foreign legion also, havent heard anything about them. i think i found it while looking up websites for the FFL.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 5:33:36 AM EDT
It says a lot of bad things about a country when it's most effective combat force is made up of mercenaries from other countries. Do you really want to work for such a nation?


Another thought.

If all you want to do is join the military and don't care what nation that military serves, you need to do some serious soul searching. The military of any nation represents the policies and values of that nation. It also represents their resolve to uphold those policies. Do you want to represent France, it's policies or it's values? Do you feel a nation that cannot or will not defend itself with the blood of it's own people is worth your blood?

In many ways the Foreign Legion is a last bastion of French Colonialism. It will enlist and send foreigeners into battle and kill them for French causes, but no matter how skilled they are, they cannot become officers in that force, and are famously treated like absolute shit. This, quite frankly, is the boiled down and pure form of French arrogance...they'll punish you and abuse you, let you die and kill for them, but they won't let you be equal to them.

Quite frankly, any American or Brit who want to join the Legion needs to get their head examined, because they clearly lack a functioning ego. I can understand why eastern europeans or third worlders might join, but an American???

What I would like to see is the French Foreign Legion stop being "etranger" and get filled up with Frenchmen. Then I would like to see them rely on a scientific selection process like the Rangers, Special Forces, SEALs, Marine Recon, etc. use. Then I would like to see them replace brutal hazing with team building and effective combat instruction. There's more to instilling toughness than forcing men to fight off or survive ass-rape. What makes OUR elite forces the finest in the world is that while the training and selection are tough, they are also fair and directed. We build teams of men who would crawl through broken glass and rusty razor blades for one another not because they are afraid not to, but because they give a damn about their brothers in arms.



Link Posted: 11/17/2003 5:41:56 AM EDT
I completely understand you're thinking and you're correct, iceman.

But you have to understand something about the Legion. There are men out there who dont give a damn about a flag. And there is an army that doesn't give a damn about your past or where you came from.

The Legion is less about France and its goals than about the Legion. The motto of the Legion is Legio Patria Nostra (The Legion is our Country). It's not something easy to understand to outsiders. It's really something different and unique in the world.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:10:48 AM EDT
There's a book called "Mouthful of Rocks: Through Africa and Corsica in the French Foreign Legion"
by Christian Jennings if you can find it, as it's out of print now. It's written by a English slacker who, one drunken day, went over the channel and enlisted. It's the author's first-hand account of his Legion experience, which seems to consists of drinking, drilling, screwing and blowing things up.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:40:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 10:41:26 AM EDT by deimos]

Originally Posted By Garand1911:
i heard Spain has a foreign legion also, havent heard anything about them. i think i found it while looking up websites for the FFL.


You have to be Spanish and less than 28 years old to enlist (amont other things)

NsB
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:54:02 AM EDT
Demos: You can also join the US military without being a US citizen.

You are limited in rank to the lower half of the enlisted scale (E-4, I think), but you also get a faster route to becoming a citizen if so inclined (After which the rank limit is removed)...

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:59:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Demos: You can also join the US military without being a US citizen.

You are limited in rank to the lower half of the enlisted scale (E-4, I think), but you also get a faster route to becoming a citizen if so inclined (After which the rank limit is removed)...




Interestingly, the US military can DRAFT some non-US citizens if they live in the US.

When you get a green card (aka permanent resident alien status) you are supposed to register with Selective Service - so that you can be called up in case the draft is re-instituted.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:11:57 AM EDT
Oh I understand the Esprit within the legion. Frankly, it's no different from the Esprit in The Ranger Regiment or the Marine Corps, or the SEAL Teams or Special Forces organization. The grunts live and die for other grunts and carry loyalty for their unit first, then for their Army or Corps or Navy or Air Force, then country.

However, the Legion doesn't fight and die for the Legion, legionaires might, but the Legion as a whole, fights for France. The Legion's loyalties are to France, and since your allegience is to the Legion, you fight for France, a country that would just as soon kill you as pay you.

You cannot really seperate The Legion from the country it exists to serve. You can justify it in your head by thinking on the smallest possible scale, but you still cannot escape form the absolute reality that The Legion serves France.

Hey, I'm sure there were units in the German army who were astoundingly good at their jobs and had tremendous esprit de corps and also had nothing to do with the death camps or any of that nasty filthy shit. Guess what, they still owed loyalty to a corrupt, fascist government run by a violent psychotic, and wearing the uniform, represented that lunatic and his government everywhere they went.

If you want to serve so much, find a way to serve a country that's actually worth a damn, your own.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:59:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 12:00:18 PM EDT by Alex_F]

Originally Posted By cduarte:
here's my foreign legion souvenir, purchased at the legion base px in Abeche in the summer of '93. FYI, the legion mission in Chad is called Operation Epervier (sparrowhawk).

http://users.ntplx.net/~cduarte/flzip.jpg

here's a page I found with some legion pics in it.



ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jeep_man/2011.htm



I got a similar lighter when I was in the first Gulf War from the FFL troops there... then some bastard stole it from me in college.
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