Israeli media really pissed me off this time... - Page 2

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Posted: 11/17/2003 4:52:24 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
A word about the Italians in Nas.

They took over the compound that had been held by elements of 2nd Battalion, 25th Marines (my unit).
2/25 maintained a highly protective posture. All avenues of approach were covered by direct and indirect fire, as well as obstacles. They also had a defense in depth, which included vehicle checkpoints. 2/25 arrived soon after the 507th debacle, they turned the place over to the Italians in August.
When the Italians arrived, they explained to the Marines that they would do things "differently". They said that the Marines were "warfighters", but they were "peacekeepers". They brought with them showers, elaborate kitchens, and many other luxuries. They stopped doing dismounted patrols (all of 2/25's HUNDREDS of Nas-local, combat patrols were DISMOUNTED).
The Italians also parked their refueler in the road leading into the compound.
I love Italy, Berlusconi, and all of the Italians whom I've had the pleasure to meet.
They just are not expeditionary in their military mindset.

In all the months 2/25 was there, before Baghdad even fell, they had zero casualties.
They owe this to their own training and abilities. They recieved and returned fire often. Their "returned fire" was very effective.
I wish the Italians had sent "warfighters", rather than "peacekeepers".
Perhaps they would still be alive.

I am I wrong in saying that only the Brits have an army that can fight a war anymore of the countries in Europe??

CRC

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:29:39 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
A word about the Italians in Nas.

They took over the compound that had been held by elements of 2nd Battalion, 25th Marines (my unit).
2/25 maintained a highly protective posture. All avenues of approach were covered by direct and indirect fire, as well as obstacles. They also had a defense in depth, which included vehicle checkpoints. 2/25 arrived soon after the 507th debacle, they turned the place over to the Italians in August.
When the Italians arrived, they explained to the Marines that they would do things "differently". They said that the Marines were "warfighters", but they were "peacekeepers". They brought with them showers, elaborate kitchens, and many other luxuries. They stopped doing dismounted patrols (all of 2/25's HUNDREDS of Nas-local, combat patrols were DISMOUNTED).
The Italians also parked their refueler in the road leading into the compound.
I love Italy, Berlusconi, and all of the Italians whom I've had the pleasure to meet.
They just are not expeditionary in their military mindset.

In all the months 2/25 was there, before Baghdad even fell, they had zero casualties.
They owe this to their own training and abilities. They recieved and returned fire often. Their "returned fire" was very effective.
I wish the Italians had sent "warfighters", rather than "peacekeepers".
Perhaps they would still be alive.

Maybe you didn't know, but the Mayor of Nassiriyah and major part of the population of the town demostrate their mourn in the aftermath of the suicide bombing against Italians.

This means that the bombers came from OUTSIDE the city. This means that the Italians gained, acting "differntly", the simpathy of the polulation, that composed by Sciites, and the demonstration was in support of the Italian troops to remain.

How many demonstration in support of US troops have been in other places after US soldiers have been ambushed and killed?

I'll tell you: zero.

Why: because they didn't act differntly, they didn't give a shit of the habits and psycology of they people they have to liberate, taking the role of "occupants" instead of the one of "liberators".

Nothing to say on the facts that some things should have been done better, like putting zig-zag concrete roadblocks... improvements are always possible, but we were there to protect the Iraqi people, not to fight against them.

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:31:34 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Sorry, liberty86, but you have become a bitter disappointment for me.

I don't think that is putting it too strongly, either.

Thanks, but you can ask someone else your questions about what the Lord would do or not do.

I only know what the Lord said.

Eric The(Faithful)Hun

Yet, you insult a Blood Washed Son of The Living God, and a Member of the Body of Christ??

I quoted you the words of our Lord.

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:37:46 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

How many demonstration in support of US troops have been in other places after US soldiers have been ambushed and killed?

I'll tell you: zero.

You know not what you speak.
Our Marines were invited to local weddings. They were very much welcomed by the locals.

Why: because they didn't act differntly, they didn't give a shit of the habits and psycology of they people they have to liberate, taking the role of "occupants" instead of the one of "liberators".

Wrong again.
The Marines always patrolled Nas ON FOOT. They walked among the locals, and got to know them. They Italians on the other hand only patrolled in vehicles. Very aloof.

Nothing to say on the facts that some things should have been done better, like putting zig-zag concrete roadblocks... improvements are always possible, but we were there to protect the Iraqi people, not to fight against them.

The Marines that were in Nas had a very good relationship with the locals. Dismounted patrols help foster this (not unlike "beat cops").
The Italians were not as hands on with the Nas locals (according to the Marines who were there). Little things, like not waving back at the kids who wave as you drive by.
When the Marines left, the locals openly weeped. They were very friendly.

...but we were there to protect the Iraqi people, not to fight against them.

Famous last words.
I wish they had maintained proper security to "protect" themselves.
That has to come first.

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:39:14 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

...cut...

...but we were there to protect the Iraqi people, not to fight against them.
Famous last words.
I wish they had maintained proper security to "protect" themselves.
That has to come first.

In this I agree...

Posted: 11/17/2003 6:19:41 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Good morning, Liberty. Looks like Eric got tired and quit. Can't say I blame him.

I'll take a shot at answering your post, if I may.

Quoted:
Quoted:
As I said, before, your unabashed hatred of Jews and Israel is an embarrassment for those of us who try and profess Christianity!

I don't think the words, 'Jesus', 'Christ' or 'Christianity' should ever come out of your mouth with out you feeling a bit uneasy!

Just keep muttering to yourself, 'What would Jesus do', 'What would Jesus do', 'What would Jesus do.'

I think He will be certain to give you the answer.

Eric The(SeriousAsAHeartAttack)Hun

My Hatred??

I won't accuse you of hating the Jews. But you are obviously no friend of Isreal or Jews. Too bad. You ought to be.

What did Jesus say about them ??

What's he gonna do?

Well, we can extropolate that out to what He's GOING to do, based on His own words Eric..

John 8;37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 ¶ I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

I don't believe, He'd be particularly approving of them any more today, than He was then!!

I am sure you can differentiate between Jesus discussions regarding the nation of Israel and his condemnation of the individual leaders (to whom He is speaking) and their personal godlessness.

He was, as I know you know, speaking of their individual refusal to accept Him as Savior. In their refusal, they were demonstrating that they were "of their father", Satan.

Of course, that applies not only to Jews, but to all that refuse to accept Jesus as Lord.

OR, do you think he's changed His mind??

Not hardly. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. As you well know.

Tell me Eric, A Christian, a Gentile, A Muslim, and a Jew, are all standing before the Throne on judgement day... (Throw in a polock, just for good measure.. )

What does the Father see, when He looks at them??

He sees the blood of Jesus, or the lack thereof. Nothing else will matter.

My question was a rhetorical one, directed at one who delivered the ultimate PERSONAL insult, to me.

I love Jews and Israel. And it saddens me to know that many of them will be eterality lost because of their refusal to accept the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

But this same God that you and I agree never changes His mind, said:

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

I'm sure you are aware, these words were uttered under the OLD covenant, which the Hebrews walked away from. The contract was broken, and the Father Himself eventually allowed their Nation to be destroyed.

How can any Christian justify hatred of Israel? Our Savior was a Jew. He still loves Israel and we must also.

You pick up the "hatred" mantra from those with NO other arguement. I "hate", no man, or race of men.

Does that mean that I support them when they are wrong? No. But it does mean that I support them when they are right and pray for them when they are wrong.

Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

I would caution you my old friend, from taking the broad gate.....

Matt 7;3 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Tell me my old friend??

What fruit has modern Israel produced?? What good have they done for their fellow man??

I thank you for responding my old friend, but my questions were rhetorical, and directed to he who hurled the insult, questioning my very status...

Heb 5;10 ¶ Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Luke 12;49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 ¶ And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Posted: 11/17/2003 6:36:58 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Tell me Eric, A Christian, a Gentile, A Muslim, and a Jew, are all standing before the Throne on judgement day... (Throw in a polock, just for good measure.. )

What does the Father see, when He looks at them??

OK, I'll bite on this one. He would see either saved souls or damned souls. If the individual accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior, then that soul could enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If the individual did not accept Christ as his Savior, that soul would be sent to eternal damnation in Hell.

Pretty simple. I don't know if that's what you were getting at, though.

My point wobblin, is JUST that. Since Noah, all men are = in birth. A jew is NOT special in the eyes of the Father.

A jew and a muslim stand side by side, and the Father sees both the SAME......

Posted: 11/17/2003 6:52:20 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
The entire reply of liberty86 is an act of self evidencing stupidity and antisemite biased thought.

PaoloAR15

Really???

John 8;37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 ¶ I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

You have PLENTY of company in YOUR belief paolo....

Posted: 11/17/2003 6:58:00 AM EDT

[#9]

Thanks, Duncan, for your kind reply.

I know, and am sure that you agree with me, that Christian men can disagree regarding these types of issues without being angry with one another.

I would however, want to clear up some sloppy thinking that I read in your reply.

By Old_Painless:

I love Jews and Israel. And it saddens me to know that many of them will be eterality lost because of their refusal to accept the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

But this same God that you and I agree never changes His mind, said:

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

By Liberty86:

I'm sure you are aware, these words were uttered under the OLD covenant, which the Hebrews walked away from. The contract was broken, and the Father Himself eventually allowed their Nation to be destroyed.

Here is what happened in the Old Testament:

God offered a Covenant between Himself and Abraham. A Covenant that would last forever. In this time period, two parties swore such an agreement by cutting an animal into two pieces and both of the parties would walk between the pieces to affirm that they would keep the treaty. God did this with Abraham.

Genesis 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates..."

Ryrie explains what happened:

"By passing alone betweeen the pieces of the animals, God (whose presence was evident by the fire and the smoke, see Exod. 13:21) swore fidelity to His promises and placed the obligation for their fulfillment on Himself alone."

The obligation to fulfill this Covenant is upon God alone. No matter what the Jews do, God will keep His promises to their nation. Even if the vast majority of Jews are lost and Hell-bound, He will fulfill His promises. These promises include restoration to their rightful land (Israel) and all the end-time propheses of the Revelation.

Just as my and your salvation depends on Christ's work alone, so do the promises made to Israel.

For their personal salvation, they must trust Jesus. But regarding the fate of Israel, the nation, God has plans that will not fail.

And this includes the admonition to pray for peace in Jerusalem.

Posted: 11/17/2003 7:02:24 AM EDT

[#10]

Well, liberty the 86 in light of those wonderful Words of Life which you gleaned for your response here, how do you explain this:

Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??

No smiley face, no nothing.

Just pure 'something' for the Jews.

I think that 'something' is hatred, you say you're simply about your Father's business!

I say, no way.

Leave it at that!

Eric The(Faithful)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 7:22:27 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Thanks, Duncan, for your kind reply.

I know, and am sure that you agree with me, that Christian men can disagree regarding these types of issues without being angry with one another.

I would however, want to clear up some sloppy thinking that I read in your reply.

Who, me???!!!

At last, old friend, something to sink my teeth into!!! My thanks!

I may be a while!!

(And yes, the different members of the Body, often conflict with one another. It's how we both grow, AND fulfill Christ's purpose for our lives...And the Body!!!)

Posted: 11/17/2003 7:33:21 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Well, liberty the 86 in light of those wonderful Words of Life which you gleaned for your response here, how do you explain this:

Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??

No smiley face, no nothing.

Just pure 'something' for the Jews.

I think that 'something' is hatred, you say you're simply about your Father's business!

I say, no way.

Leave it at that!

Eric The(Faithful)Hun

Tough nite last night??

Some of you have been trying to hang the "88" jacket on me for a long time.. THAT is why you like the "hate" word eh eric??

YOU sound like Morris Dees!!

The thread TITLE is about Israel, the FIRST post is about Israel. I said "jews".

Israel is a Jewish State!!

You are SO eager to defend those who give NOTHING to the world around them, or to Man in general, that you jump when I use the word "jews", in a thread with a title synonomous with Israel!!

Again, if the thread was about Russian media, and I said "Why would the russians care", would you jump down my throat, and insult me as a Believer??

YOU HIPPOCRITE!!

Posted: 11/17/2003 7:48:07 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

The thread TITLE is about Israel, the FIRST post is about Israel. I said "jews".

Israel is a Jewish State!!

You are SO eager to defend those who give NOTHING to the world around them, or to Man in general, that you jump when I use the word "jews", in a thread with a title synonomous with Israel!!

You don't need anyone to put on you the 88 jacket. You are doing all the job alone with your silly statements. About "those who give NOTHING to the world" I'd like to see what your useless exitence gave to the world to justify such a hateful statement... I guess that in your whole life hate didn't allow you to give to the world more than a flea on a dog can give...

Again, if the thread was about Russian media, and I said "Why would the russians care", would you jump down my throat, and insult me as a Believer??

YOU HIPPOCRITE!!

You right demonstrate my point:
Russia=Russians you didn't call them "the Ortodox Christians" or "the communists" and Russia have been both of them'.

You should remember, if you can, I don't want that you can damage your fragile brain, next time you want to criticize Israel to use the terms "Israeli". This means the governmente of ALL the Israeli: Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druzes and all my Buddhist friends.

Try to recognize your disease, liberty86: antisemitism. It's the first step to cure it...

Posted: 11/17/2003 8:13:11 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:

The thread TITLE is about Israel, the FIRST post is about Israel. I said "jews".

Israel is a Jewish State!!

You are SO eager to defend those who give NOTHING to the world around them, or to Man in general, that you jump when I use the word "jews", in a thread with a title synonomous with Israel!!

You don't need anyone to put on you the 88 jacket. You are doing all the job alone with your silly statements. About "those who give NOTHING to the world" I'd like to see what your useless exitence gave to the world to justify such a hateful statement... I guess that in your whole life hate didn't allow you to give to the world more than a flea on a dog can give...

Again, if the thread was about Russian media, and I said "Why would the russians care", would you jump down my throat, and insult me as a Believer??

YOU HIPPOCRITE!!

You right demonstrate my point:
Russia=Russians you didn't call them "the Ortodox Christians" or "the communists" and Russia have been both of them'.

You should remember, if you can, I don't want that you can damage your fragile brain, next time you want to criticize Israel to use the terms "Israeli". This means the governmente of ALL the Israeli: Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druzes and all my Buddhist friends.

Try to recognize your disease, liberty86: antisemitism. It's the first step to cure it...

You all can wiggle, harp, and scream "HATE", all you want.

I posted from an official Israeli web site on page 2....

Here's what THEY say about Israel...

On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel , which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..."

I only call then, What they call themselves!!

Thanks for your concern about my "fragile brain"....

Posted: 11/17/2003 8:29:21 AM EDT

[#15]

As I say, liberty86, this is becoming a tad embarrassing for all of us now!

Post from liberty86 -

Tough nite last night??

Nope, I was with my granddaughter all day after church and for Sunday Night Service!

It was a great day for me!

Some of you have been trying to hang the "88" jacket on me for a long time.. THAT is why you like the "hate" word eh eric??

I have never even thought about calling you a 'Nazi', it's simply that the websites you visit are more obscene than any I ever care to visit!

And 'hate' is a word I love to avoid.

But I think we can ALL count on you for one thing and one thing only, and that is anti-Israel and anti-Jewis invective.

And you may say that it is all political and everything, only against Israel and NOT the Jews, etc, etc, etc, but when it's 24/7/365 100% of the time, you can't blame us for wondering where your heart is...

YOU sound like Morris Dees!!

That'll be the day!

But you are surely beginning to sound like Louis Farakhan for a certainty!

And I cannot imagine why you don't see this - look at the websites you visit regularly!

And then try and get us to believe that tripe!

The thread TITLE is about Israel, the FIRST post is about Israel. I said "jews".

Yeah...you said 'JEWS' all right. It's how Louis Farakhan refers to Israel!

Israel is a Jewish State!!

So? The United States of America is a Christian nation....sorta, kinda, not really!

You are SO eager to defend those who give NOTHING to the world around them, or to Man in general, that you jump when I use the word "jews", in a thread with a title synonomous with Israel!!

I would think that the Jewish Messiah was a great enough gift to the world. They also populated the first churches in Christendom when your ancestors and mine were painting their bodies blue and screaming at Roman soldiers in what was to become Great Britain.

Again, if the thread was about Russian media, and I said "Why would the russians care", would you jump down my throat, and insult me as a Believer??

Nope, simply because you would never say that!

But just review your writings on the Jews and Israel over the time you've been here.

I say it sounds like 'Johnny One-Note' - it's the Jews this and Israel that!

Just like Louis Farakhan...

Eric The(Sensible)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:11:13 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
As I say, liberty86, this is becoming a tad embarrassing for all of us now!

Post from liberty86 -
Tough nite last night??

Nope, I was with my granddaughter all day after church and for Sunday Night Service!

It was a great day for me!
Some of you have been trying to hang the "88" jacket on me for a long time.. THAT is why you like the "hate" word eh eric??

I have never even thought about calling you a 'Nazi', it's simply that the websites you visit are more obscene than any I ever care to visit!

And 'hate' is a word I love to avoid.

But I think we can ALL count on you for one thing and one thing only, and that is anti-Israel and anti-Jewis invective.

And you may say that it is all political and everything, only against Israel and NOT the Jews, etc, etc, etc, but when it's 24/7/365 100% of the time, you can't blame us for wondering where your heart is...
YOU sound like Morris Dees!!

That'll be the day!

But you are surely beginning to sound like Louis Farakhan for a certainty!

And I cannot imagine why you don't see this - look at the websites you visit regularly!

And then try and get us to believe that tripe!
The thread TITLE is about Israel, the FIRST post is about Israel. I said "jews".

Yeah...you said 'JEWS' all right. It's how Louis Farakhan refers to Israel!
Israel is a Jewish State!!

So? The United States of America is a Christian nation....sorta, kinda, not really!
You are SO eager to defend those who give NOTHING to the world around them, or to Man in general, that you jump when I use the word "jews", in a thread with a title synonomous with Israel!!

I would think that the Jewish Messiah was a great enough gift to the world. They also populated the first churches in Christendom when your ancestors and mine were painting their bodies blue and screaming at Roman soldiers in what was to become Great Britain.
Again, if the thread was about Russian media, and I said "Why would the russians care", would you jump down my throat, and insult me as a Believer??

Nope, simply because you would never say that!

But just review your writings on the Jews and Israel over the time you've been here.

I say it sounds like 'Johnny One-Note' - it's the Jews this and Israel that!

Just like Louis Farakhan...

Eric The(Sensible)Hun

You are truely pitiful today...

You dodge my post on page two, and bow out to let Old Painless take it up...

THEN, jump back in, like a pussy little gangster??

Go BACK, and respond to my post, and your insult to me!!

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:22:47 AM EDT

[#17]

Post from iberty86 -

You are truely pitiful today...

Yeah, yeah, whatever!

You dodge my post on page two, and bow out to let Old Painless take it up...

Sorry, but it wasn't worth responding to then, IMHO, and it surely is not now.

Old_Painless took it up in order to try and put things in perspective, it appears.

THEN, jump back in, like a pussy little gangster??

'Like a little pussy gangster'?

Wow, you are sounding much more like Louis Farakhan these days!

Go BACK, and respond to my post, and your insult to me!!

Naw, it's pointless now. I think you hate the Jews and Israel.

That is my belief, it is my opinion based upon everything you have written on the subject!

That's all. That's enough for me!

You can rail all you wish, pout all you want, but that is simply my opinion.

And it will not change until you reform your attitude towards the Jews, in general, and Israel, in particular.

And I doubt that, this side of the veil, you will ever change your attitudes towards either.

Eric The(SimpleEnough)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:23:59 AM EDT

[#18]

Nice non-response eric... like I said.. pitiful.

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:24:42 AM EDT

[#19]

What if L86 had said:

"Why would a bunch of Argentines care if a few Italians got whacked?"

or

"Why would a bunch of Muslims care if a few Catholics got whacked?"

Big effing deal. He's right. Why would they care? Plenty of people here in this country had no idea there were Italian soldiers in Iraq in the first place. That detail wasn't terribly important to us, was it? After all, we have enough to worry about with our own boys being over there. So, why would the Israelis care? Or, as L86 called them, "Jews," which is more or less the same thing.

Some of you guys have a hard-on for bashing L86 and pounce on even the slightest remark he makes. BTW, he who uses the words "Nazi" and "Anti-Semite" first, loses. That is standard for any discussion.

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:28:46 AM EDT

[#20]

Post from liberty86 -

Nice non-response eric... like I said.. pitiful.

It is, however, my response, no matter what you may think of it!

Eric The(Understanding)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:29:23 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I wonder if the Italians will fight as bravely and valiently as they did in WWII.....sorry could'nt help myself. +

Or perhaps as did the 1st Air Cav did in Korea. The horse they never rode, the road they never crossed and the color speaks for itself.

Lots of people here who have never had caps popping overhead talk big about guts. Think twice if you haven't proven yourself.

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:29:47 AM EDT

[#22]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:31:08 AM EDT

[#23]

Old -Painless, (my friend).. a question or two, to clarify.

Who are the Heirs of the Abrahamic covenent?? Who is the "Seed" referred to in;

Gen 1;5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Who is "Israel", today???

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:38:09 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the Italians will fight as bravely and valiently as they did in WWII.....sorry could'nt help myself. +

Or perhaps as did the 1st Air Cav did in Korea. The horse they never rode, the road they never crossed and the color speaks for itself.

Me-thinks there's quite a story here..

Lots of people here who have never had caps popping overhead talk big about guts. Think twice if you haven't proven yourself.

Nothing new there. The world is full of talkers... It's JUST talk...

Posted: 11/17/2003 9:41:10 AM EDT

[#25]

Post from Wobblin-Goblin -

What if L86 had said:

"Why would a bunch of Argentines care if a few Italians got whacked?"

or

"Why would a bunch of Muslims care if a few Catholics got whacked?"

That's just it, Wobblin-Goblin, it is so much like liberty86 to make such a statement as he did about the Jews.

If he had been after folks from Argentina, or Muslims, as he has Israel and the Jews, it would not have caused any stir whatsoever!

Big effing deal. He's right. Why would they care?

He's wrong, as are you, if you believe that!

The death of any man in such a manner as the noble Italian soldiers diminishes all of us!

The 'Jews' didn't say they didn't care, the Israelis didn't say they didn't care!

liberty86 said they didn't care!

See the difference?

I knew you would!

Plenty of people here in this country had no idea there were Italian soldiers in Iraq in the first place.

So? What does that have to do with liberty86's scurrilous remark about the Jews?

That detail wasn't terribly important to us, was it? After all, we have enough to worry about with our own boys being over there.

Yes, and the point you are making as it relates to liberty86's stupid remark about the Jews not caring is...?

So, why would the Israelis care? Or, as L86 called them, "Jews," which is more or less the same thing.

Nonsense!

The Jews are not one and the same as Israel, and vice versa.

Only Louis Farakhan, the Nation Magazine, some Nazi wannabes, the greater part of the House of Islam, and liberty86, don't appear to understand that fact.

Now, I know that you don't suffer under any such illusions! Right?

Some of you guys have a hard-on for bashing L86 and pounce on even the slightest remark he makes.

He's treading on thin ice with me, and has been for a while since he is so quick to jump on any subject that denigrates the Jews or Israel!

So, let him utter an unkind peep about something involving either group and I will respond, for certain!

BTW, he who uses the words "Nazi" and "Anti-Semite" first, loses. That is standard for any discussion.

Then you lose!

You are the first one to mention either word, IIRC!

Eric The(Jes'Kidding)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 10:02:49 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
That's just it, Wobblin-Goblin, it is so much like liberty86 to make such a statement as he did about the Jews.

If he had been after folks from Argentina, or Muslims, as he has Israel and the Jews, it would not have caused any stir whatsoever!

ETH, look at the title of this thread. It is about Paolo's anger towards the Israelis. Perhaps one valid reason why L86 did not mention Argentines or Muslims was because this thread was started about someone's dissapointment about the Israelis.

The death of any man in such a manner as the noble Italian soldiers diminishes all of us!

The 'Jews' didn't say they didn't care, the Israelis didn't say they didn't care!

liberty86 said they didn't care! See the difference?

ETH, my internet friend, I see that L86 had nothing to do with the creation of this thread. A thread aimed at the Israelis.

BTW, he who uses the words "Nazi" and "Anti-Semite" first, loses. That is standard for any discussion.

Then you lose! You are the first one to mention either word, IIRC!

Check out the posts. I am not the first. Pay special attention to the creator of this thread.

BTW, if anyone here thinks I am downplaying the Italians' deaths, think again. I have family in Italy. None of the dead are immediate relatives, but I'm sure if I researched it I could find a blood connection.

Posted: 11/17/2003 10:07:12 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Old -Painless, (my friend).. a question or two, to clarify.

My pleasure. Always enjoy a little sword drill.

Who are the Heirs of the Abrahamic covenent?? Who is the "Seed" referred to in;

Gen 1;5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Who is "Israel", today???

Made me scratch my head till I figured out you were talking about 15:5 and not 1:5.

15:5 is repeated in Romans 4:3

"3 For what saith the scripture?"

I always love that part. Scrutamini Scripturum.

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Paul goes on to explain that Abraham didn't even know about Jesus, so what could save him? God counted Abraham's righteousness, his total faith in God, as faith in the coming Messiah. This Messiah would come from Israel, God's chosen people for the Messiah's blood line.

As an aside, why do you suppose that God used the Jews as an example of His love? I think it wasn't because they were the most lovely people, or the most faithful people, or even the most religious people. No, He picked them just because they were the least loveable people, and the least faithful, and the biggest failures to keep His laws.

He did that so that we would see that He doesn't love Old_Painless, or Liberty86, or EricTheHun because we are perfect, but because we aren't. He loves us in spite of who we are and in spite of our many failings.

Aren't you glad. I sure am.

Back on topic...

Paul further explains:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not totally cast away His people. They are rebelious at this time, but He has plans for them.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Paul (and God) warn us Christians that because of the unbelief of the Jews, they were (temporaily) cut off. We have been grafted in. We ought not to be highminded, but instead appreciative that they were the branches that we are grafted onto.

Christians are now the "children of God". But Jews once were, and according to Revelation, soon will be again. God keeps His promises. He will honor His Word and restore Israel some day.

Now, do I completely understand this issue? Nope. But I understand enough to know that God made promises to Israel, they are the branches, I am grafted onto the branches, and He will someday restore them.

I also understand that we will someday stand before Him and be sorry for arguing cruelly with one another about theological issues. A lost world is watching.

Posted: 11/17/2003 10:32:44 AM EDT

[#28]

Post from Wobblin-Goblin -

ETH, look at the title of this thread. It is about Paolo's anger towards the Israelis. Perhaps one valid reason why L86 did not mention Argentines or Muslims was because this thread was started about someone's dissapointment about the Israelis.

Precisely! liberty86's comment about the 'Jews' then, makes no sense, does it?

He just cannot differentiate between Israelis and Jews, and the mere fact that he made the statement that he did, Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??, exhibits a mindset that is not very healthy.

Wouldn't you agree?

Did you or I wonder why the Jews would care if any Italians were killed or not?

ETH, my internet friend, I see that L86 had nothing to do with the creation of this thread. A thread aimed at the Israelis.

No, obviously it was PaoloAr15's thread, but no one mentioned the 'Jews' until the 'usual suspect' showed up!

Check out the posts. I am not the first. Pay special attention to the creator of this thread.

Sorry, but I can't get past the fact that everyone was talking uniformly about 'Israel', until liberty86 used the 'J-word'!

Then when az-larry called him on it, what was this gentle Christian's response to our friend from Arizona?

A bit sensitive are we Larry???

What chutzpah! If I were az-larry, my response might have gotten me kicked off this Board!

BTW, if anyone here thinks I am downplaying the Italians' deaths, think again.

I don't see anyone here criticizing you about the Italians' deaths, at all.

But you don't need to have blood connections to any of the slain men to understand that it was a blow aimed against Western Civilization that took these fine mens' lives!

Once, again, liberty86 owes an apology to az-larry, in particular and the Jews, in general!

Eric The(AndToTheLordHimself!)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 11:04:14 AM EDT

[#29]

Paolo, I was unaware that you guys were helping in Iraq. The Carbinieri, (I'm sure I mispelled the hell out of that one) have a great reputation. My condolences to your countrymen and yourself. Hey Eric, can your lofty 1.5 million Israeli Arabs own guns like their Jewish counterparts? Well I guess that would make them Second Class citizens now wouldn't it?
Thus making the Israelis Anti-semites themselves.
Cute ain't they, but do they make good pets?

Posted: 11/17/2003 11:13:14 AM EDT

[#30]

Actually, yes.
There is no distinction between mulsim and jew, when it comes to Israeli RKBA.
But that you think this is quite telling.

Posted: 11/17/2003 11:31:54 AM EDT

[#31]

Post from Pat-Riot:

Hey Eric, can your lofty 1.5 million Israeli Arabs own guns like their Jewish counterparts?

My 'lofty 1.5 million Israeli Arabs'? What do you mean my?

I have no idea, why don't you look it up?

Well I guess that would make them Second Class citizens now wouldn't it?

You mean like Californians, New Jersey folks, and others, are 'second class' American citizens?

Thus making the Israelis Anti-semites themselves.
Cute ain't they, but do they make good pets?

Yes, when you capture an Israeli and make him or her your pet, don't feel badly if an IDF soldier kicks you azz in the process of rescuing their citizen!

Can you think of any other group, other than Americans, who would release hundreds of its worst enemies, simply in order to get back one of its own citizens back home?

Israel does it regularly!

Eric The(Honest)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 11:58:59 AM EDT

[#32]

My 'lofty 1.5 million Israeli Arabs'? What do you mean my?

I was referring to the figure not the actual people as belonging to you
I have no idea, why don't you look it up?

Well I guess that would make them Second Class citizens now wouldn't it?

You mean like Californians, New Jersey folks, and others, are 'second class' American citizens?
Why don't YOU ask a criminal in those states.

Thus making the Israelis Anti-semites themselves.
Cute ain't they, but do they make good pets?

Yes, when you capture an Israeli and make him or her your pet, don't feel badly if an IDF soldier kicks you azz in the process of rescuing their citizen!
Why would I want to capture an Israeli citizen?
Who said anything about doing anything TO the Israelis? Not I. My government has them contained in a nice little habitat that they seem to like. They have toys to play with(really cool toys at that!), all the Palestinians they could ever want to kill(don't give me that DU crap, it's a fact. Those people breed like rabbits), food, water. Everything a PET could want. My point is the US treats Israel like a pet. We dote on them. When they misbehave we threaten to take away their Mr. Squeakems, and that's about it.

Posted: 11/17/2003 4:21:06 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Old -Painless, (my friend).. a question or two, to clarify.

My pleasure. Always enjoy a little sword drill.

Who are the Heirs of the Abrahamic covenent?? Who is the "Seed" referred to in;

Gen 1;5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Who is "Israel", today???

Made me scratch my head till I figured out you were talking about 15:5 and not 1:5.

15:5 is repeated in Romans 4:3

"3 For what saith the scripture?"

I always love that part. Scrutamini Scripturum.

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Paul goes on to explain that Abraham didn't even know about Jesus, so what could save him? God counted Abraham's righteousness, his total faith in God, as faith in the coming Messiah. This Messiah would come from Israel, God's chosen people for the Messiah's blood line.

As an aside, why do you suppose that God used the Jews as an example of His love? I think it wasn't because they were the most lovely people, or the most faithful people, or even the most religious people. No, He picked them just because they were the least loveable people, and the least faithful, and the biggest failures to keep His laws.

Yep! God loves to confound the wise...

He did that so that we would see that He doesn't love Old_Painless, or Liberty86, or EricTheHun because we are perfect, but because we aren't. He loves us in spite of who we are and in spite of our many failings.

Aren't you glad. I sure am.

Back on topic...

Paul further explains:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not totally cast away His people. They are rebelious at this time, but He has plans for them.

God has not cast them off, they took a hike, and are NO friends of ours!

1 ¶ I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Which he foreknew... In other words, those who accept His Son. The rest BURN!

Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

God leaves a remnant, who will accept His Son.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Paul (and God) warn us Christians that because of the unbelief of the Jews, they were (temporaily) cut off. We have been grafted in. We ought not to be highminded, but instead appreciative that they were the branches that we are grafted onto.

Christians are now the "children of God". But Jews once were, and according to Revelation, soon will be again.

NOT so, only the remnent are Saved. Those already sealed.

God keeps His promises. He will honor His Word and restore Israel some day.

For His glory, and the fulfillment of scripture.

Now, do I completely understand this issue? Nope. But I understand enough to know that God made promises to Israel, they are the branches, I am grafted onto the branches, and He will someday restore them.

I disagree, only the remenent. As it is written;

Matt 20;16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

I also understand that we will someday stand before Him and be sorry for arguing cruelly with one another about theological issues. A lost world is watching.

And, gettin' an education old friend.

The stars Abraham saw, were his seed through faith, that is, Christians.
God has raised Israel, to prove HIS soveriegnty, NOT because the jews are "chosen people". He does it for His glory, and in fulfilling His word, perhaps some will be drawn to him.

The jews HATED Christ then, and they HATE Him now. They are NOT special, as God, is NO respector of persons.

Is Gods will being done today with regards to Israel, (the state)?? Absoulutly!!

Am I "resisting Gods will" by my opposition to American support of the State??

NO!

And, lastly,...

Rom 11;28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

They are beloved for their fathers sakes, but are STILL enemies of Christ....

Thankyou old friend, for your patience, I had some stuff to do today.... 'Bless ya!!

BTW, an old military buddy of mine in a Messianic Jew, of the Levites. He agrees with my assesment.

On a political/secular level??
I oppose American support of the State of Israel, (and everybody else too btw), they're bloodsuckers, and Americans are now fighting their fight.

On the spiritual level????

Matt 6;10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus....

Edit for quotes, noted edit because of subject matter.

Posted: 11/17/2003 4:39:47 PM EDT

[#34]

I really can't stand ZIONISTS. I have many Jewish friends who I've known since childhood, been to their Bar Mitzvah's and gone to Synagogue with many times. They have, in turn, gone with me to Mass and we are all AMERICANS who have no loyalty to Israel or any other Jewish state. That being said.....

We are tools of the Zionists in control of Israel. We give them money, our hard earned taxes. Weapons to occupy and oppress another people and they don't give any concessions to us.

Remember during Bush's visit to Israel, they discussed giving back Palestinian tariffs? About the only thing I've ever agree with (okay, I agree with Bush on Medicare Reform) Bush on is when he told Israel to "GIVE BACK THEIR MONEY. IT'S THEIR MONEY, GIVE IT BACK."

FINALLY! Something intelligent spewed forth from GW's mouth.....

BTW: I love how the Germans suck up to Israel and give them free Diesel/Electric Submarines just because Israel give's them a guilt trip about the Holocaust....

Posted: 11/17/2003 4:43:59 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Liberty86's comment about the 'Jews' then, makes no sense, does it?

He just cannot differentiate between Israelis and Jews, and the mere fact that he made the statement that he did, Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??, exhibits a mindset that is not very healthy.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well, let's break all this down to two sentences, the title of this thread (as penned from Paolo), and the one sentence from L86 that you are all upset about:

Quoted:
Israeli media really pissed me off this time...

Quoted:
Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked?

I don't see the big deal. Obviously, L86 has an understanding that the Israeli media that Paolo is so pissed off at is run by Jews. L86 is also asking why would there be a connection between Italians dying and an Israeli/Jewish response.

Again, I see a mole-hill and some of you see a mountain.

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:04:16 PM EDT

[#36]

Posy from Wobblin-Goblin -

I don't see the big deal.

I think maybe we shouldn't expect you to, but both az-larry and I saw a 'big deal.'

Obviously, L86 has an understanding that the Israeli media that Paolo is so pissed off at is run by Jews.

I'll bet if you asked him nicely, liberty86 would say the same thing about the US media!

But he would be wrong, wouldn't he?

No one ever says the L'Osservatore Romano is run by Christians, do they?

L86 is also asking why would there be a connection between Italians dying and an Israeli/Jewish response.

No, he simply said what he said.

'Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??'

That's not a question that is honestly put to anyone in particular, is it?

He certainly never followed up on his question, did he?

He never repeated his question, did he?

There were so many other ways he could arrived at the question that YOU put in his mouth - 'why would there be a connection between Italians dying and an Israeli/Jewish response' - but he didn't, did he?

He put it in the manner he wanted it to be understood, and you know it, he knows it, and the rest of us know it!

Again, I see a mole-hill and some of you see a mountain.

I see something else, entirely.

And it ain't very pretty, at all.

Eric The(Disgusted)Hun

Posted: 11/17/2003 5:20:39 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Liberty86's comment about the 'Jews' then, makes no sense, does it?

He just cannot differentiate between Israelis and Jews, and the mere fact that he made the statement that he did, Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked??, exhibits a mindset that is not very healthy.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well, let's break all this down to two sentences, the title of this thread (as penned from Paolo), and the one sentence from L86 that you are all upset about:

Quoted:
Israeli media really pissed me off this time...

Quoted:
Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked?

I don't see the big deal. Obviously, L86 has an understanding that the Israeli media that Paolo is so pissed off at is run by Jews. L86 is also asking why would there be a connection between Italians dying and an Israeli/Jewish response.

Again, I see a mole-hill and some of you see a mountain.

Forget it wobblin, they see, what they WANT to see...

2 Thess 2;3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

THIS is the time, in which we live....

Posted: 11/18/2003 12:38:43 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Paolo, I was unaware that you guys were helping in Iraq. The Carbinieri, (I'm sure I mispelled the hell out of that one) have a great reputation. My condolences to your countrymen and yourself. Hey Eric, can your lofty 1.5 million Israeli Arabs own guns like their Jewish counterparts? Well I guess that would make them Second Class citizens now wouldn't it?
Thus making the Israelis Anti-semites themselves.
Cute ain't they, but do they make good pets?

Thanks for condolescences. I appreciate that.

A little correction: if you are speaking about civilian RKBA, Israeli Druzes and Bedouins (Arabs) are allowed to own rifles. To the jewish Israelis, unlesso you live in the Occupied Territories, NO.

Who's second class?

Posted: 11/18/2003 12:44:29 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I really can't stand ZIONISTS. I have many Jewish friends who I've known since childhood, been to their Bar Mitzvah's and gone to Synagogue with many times. They have, in turn, gone with me to Mass and we are all AMERICANS who have no loyalty to Israel or any other Jewish state. That being said.....

A lot of antisemites start with the statement: "I am not antisemite, I have even a Jewish friend that agrees with me, but..."

We are tools of the Zionists in control of Israel. We give them money, our hard earned taxes. Weapons to occupy and oppress another people and they don't give any concessions to us.

Antizionists talks always about the greed of the Jews for money, but at the end they always speak about money... curious, doesn't it?

Remember during Bush's visit to Israel, they discussed giving back Palestinian tariffs? About the only thing I've ever agree with (okay, I agree with Bush on Medicare Reform) Bush on is when he told Israel to "GIVE BACK THEIR MONEY. IT'S THEIR MONEY, GIVE IT BACK."

FINALLY! Something intelligent spewed forth from GW's mouth.....

BTW: I love how the Germans suck up to Israel and give them free Diesel/Electric Submarines just because Israel give's them a guilt trip about the Holocaust....

As told before talking about anti-jewish prejudices: "I am not antisemite, I have even a Jewish friend that agrees with me, but..."

I demonstrate my theory.

Posted: 11/18/2003 12:50:39 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

....cut...

Well, let's break all this down to two sentences, the title of this thread (as penned from Paolo), and the one sentence from L86 that you are all upset about:

Quoted:
Israeli media really pissed me off this time...

Quoted:
Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked?

I don't see the big deal. Obviously, L86 has an understanding that the Israeli media that Paolo is so pissed off at is run by Jews. L86 is also asking why would there be a connection between Italians dying and an Israeli/Jewish response.

Again, I see a mole-hill and some of you see a mountain.

Sorry to say that your analisys is wrong, Wobblin'... I was pissed off by ISRAELI media, and not by JEWS MEDIA.

The statement of lib86: "Why would the jews care if a few Italians got whacked?" is simplu a result of his blindness in distinguishing from "Israeli" and "Jews". In the recent Shabat, Jews in the Big Sinagogue in Rome where mourning and making their Tefillot and Berachot for Instabul and Nassiriyah victims. There are also Jews that are servicing in the Carabinieri. And, above all, Italians jews are Italian, and for them Nassiriyah and Instabul are both painful wounds.

Got the point?

Posted: 11/18/2003 12:56:18 AM EDT

[#41]

One last point.

I notice that everytime the subject "Israel" is popping out, even with something that is concerning politic, terror attacks or economy, the religious crap start to be put everywhere.

Even in a thread like this, that was concerning my feeling about ISRAELI (not JEWISH) media that gave a secondary importance (the media, not the Israeli politics: PM Sharon, President Katsav, FM Silvan Shalom released intervews and issued letters of condolescences to Italian Govt.) to the fact that the common enemy of Italians, Israelis and Americans killed 17 Italian soldiers.

I'd really like that when we are discussing about politics and Israel is involved, the discussion remains at politic level. It would be proper and more effective.

Thanks...

Posted: 11/18/2003 3:08:03 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
One last point.

I notice that everytime the subject "Israel" is popping out, even with something that is concerning politic, terror attacks or economy, the religious crap start to be put everywhere.

I'd really like that when we are discussing about politics and Israel is involved, the discussion remains at politic level. It would be proper and more effective.

Thanks...

My apoligies PaoloAR15.

For Christians, it is difficult to talk about Israel and Jews without considering the Biblical implications of what is discussed.

But it is your thread. I will steer clear of them in the future.

Posted: 11/18/2003 3:11:46 AM EDT

[#43]

I don't mean to hijack a thread from our internet friend, Paolo, however, I am compelled to ask a couple of questions (concerning L86's and Paolo's recent remarks):

1. Does the word "Jew" describe a nationality of people?

2. Does it describe a race of people?

3. Does it describe a religion?

4. Do "Jews" run the Israeli media? Or is it some other nationality/race/religious type of people who run the Israeli media? If so, who?

I have to go to work but if anyone is still interested about the issues discussed in this thread, I will check back later in the day.

Posted: 11/18/2003 3:21:22 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

...cut...

1. Does the word "Jew" describe a nationality of people?

If you mean for "nationality" a group of people that have in common a culture, wes, they are, imho.

2. Does it describe a race of people?

No.

3. Does it describe a religion?

Does a not-religious Jew or a ateist Jew stop to be a Jew? No.

4. Do "Jews" run the Israeli media? Or is it some other nationality/race/religious type of people who run the Israeli media? If so, who?

It is correct to refer to Italian journalists or media operators as "The Catholics"?

Posted: 11/18/2003 4:10:17 AM EDT

[#45]

Post from Scht0nk -

I really can't stand ZIONISTS.

Some of my very best friends are ZIONISTS!

Hell, I am a ZIONIST, if that means that I support the continuation of the State of Israel!

I hope to live someday in ZION, the Eternal One, not the temporal one!

I have many Jewish friends who I've known since childhood, been to their Bar Mitzvah's and gone to Synagogue with many times. They have, in turn, gone with me to Mass and we are all AMERICANS who have no loyalty to Israel or any other Jewish state.

Isn't that just so...sweet? I love you, man!

That being said.....

Uh-oh!

We are tools of the Zionists in control of Israel.

Don't you really mean that we are the 'tools of the Elders of Zion' under whose Protocols the entire world is laboring?

We give them money, our hard earned taxes.

Heck, I bet I give more than you do!

Weapons to occupy and oppress another people and they don't give any concessions to us.

Or maybe weapons that they use to defend themselves from their lovely and charming neighbors, who only want nothing more than to slit the throat of every Israeli man, woman, and child they can get their swarthy hands on?

Remember during Bush's visit to Israel, they discussed giving back Palestinian tariffs?

That's strange, I don't remember President Bush ever visiting Israel as President!

When was this?

Are you referring to his June 2003 visit to Qatar, Jordan and Egypt?

If so, you should know that he never set foot in Israel!

You know, it's the little points you have to keep straight!

FINALLY! Something intelligent spewed forth from GW's mouth.....

Yes, I think we can all see your views on President Bush. Let us promptly know when you do anything of note, and we will all be amazed at you, too!

BTW: I love how the Germans suck up to Israel and give them free Diesel/Electric Submarines just because Israel give's them a guilt trip about the Holocaust....

Just between the two of us, I love it, too!

The Germans actually 'donated' two Dolphin-class submarines to Israel in 1997, but the Jews, er, the Israelis had to purchase the last one for themselves in 1999!

So, I suppose that means that the Germans' guilt trip must be coming to an end!

Oh, well, it was fun while it lasted, eh?

Eric The(ZionistInHisHeartOfHearts)Hun

Posted: 11/18/2003 6:06:26 AM EDT

[#46]

Cincinnatus was kind enough to e-mail the text of the Israeli RKBA regs. Providing one has lived in Israel for at least 3 years, and is either a reservist, a resident along the border buffer zones, West Bank or Gaza Settler, Retired Military of at least NCO rank, retired corrections officer. A bus driver may own a handgun, and a animal control officer may own a non select fire, non semi auto rifle. If one reads the actual regs it is easy to read between the lines that Arabs do not get the same treatmant that their Jewish couterparts do, but because they can own bolt action and pump action rifles and handguns, I must say I was in error, and thank Cincinnatus; and Paolo; for correcting my mistake.

Posted: 11/18/2003 6:36:23 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Cincinnatus was kind enough to e-mail the text of the Israeli RKBA regs. Providing one has lived in Israel for at least 3 years, and is either a reservist, a resident along the border buffer zones, West Bank or Gaza Settler, Retired Military of at least NCO rank, retired corrections officer. A bus driver may own a handgun, and a animal control officer may own a non select fire, non semi auto rifle. If one reads the actual regs it is easy to read between the lines that Arabs do not get the same treatmant that their Jewish couterparts do, but because they can own bolt action and pump action rifles and handguns, I must say I was in error, and thank Cincinnatus; and Paolo; for correcting my mistake.

Remember, nearly all Israelis are reservists or retired reservists. Those that are not (mostly very religious jews and liberal commie pinko faggots) voluntarily removed themselves from the right to keep and bear arms. All arabs are allowed to join the Israeli military, but they are not drafted as are the jews. I am not sure about the Druize, but I know most do serve. In Israel, you are a second class citizen if you don't serve. No one is excluded from serving. Those that choose not to are treated accordingly. The exception is the religious jews, though Sharon (in what will be one of the greatest triumphs of his administration) is breaking the lock the religious jews had in the ruling coalitions. For the first time in about 30 years, the religious parties are not in the cabinet.

Posted: 11/18/2003 7:50:50 AM EDT

[#48]

I wrote a long article both in Italian and in English.

www.saarms.it/English/reportage/Israel_firearms.htm

To serve in the IDF doesn't means that your RKBA is granted, that is PRIVATE and INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP of firearms.

In Israel I cannot bring with me my AR15 as my private owner, but MAYBE as member of a selfe defence association of a (let say) kibutz and can be assigned for duty to anyone of the kibutz defence force. It is NOT my rifle.

If you don't want to go to shoot and keep your firearms is not possible: if you go to range ok. The moment you decide to put your gun in a safe, your gun license will expire and you have to give back your gun, that probably will be destroyed or thrown in the deepest abysses of Mediterranean Sea.
Respect for private firearms ownership: zero.

But I beg you to put also in the right perspective: Israel is a country that knows very well what war and REAL gun violence is.

I'll make you an example: a friend of my wife come to visit us in Italy. She is a very fine woman that works in the Hi Tec. When I showed her my AR15 she got scared, but when I showed her the Remington P17, she relaxed and appreciate the beauty of the gun. Both the guns were REAL and WORKING ones. So why? She told me that the AR15 reminded her the war and the violence. Everybody, or almost everybody, in Israel knows that when you pull the trigger on a M16 is not for fun but a life, on one side or the other one, is going to be taken.

Symbols...

I hope that if one day Israel will became a normal country, AR15 will be seen not only as war weapons, but also (as they can be) very good target shooting tools.

Posted: 11/18/2003 8:17:41 AM EDT

[#49]

Eric, I have only 5 letters for you.

AIPAC

Paolo, the way I see it, you are the Antisemetic, Jew-hater. You don't make any distinction between a Zionist and a Jew, you lump everything into the Jewish column. At lesat be honest with yourself and this board. At least, I can see the distinction between a loyal American Jew. Not all Jews are Zionist. Not all Jews advocate the occupation of the Palestinian Territories. Not all Jews want to see a wall between Isreal and Palestine. Some Jews see it as a wall KEEPING JEWS WITHIN THE WALLS, likda like a big concentration camp....sans gas chambers.

I guess you would make the kind of argument that all Jews who don't support the STATE of ISRAEL are SELF HATING JEWS? I don't buy that. My wife is half Jewish, having a Jewish father, so I must hate her then? Her distincion is "ZIONISM IS JUST ANOTHER FORM OF FASCISM"

Posted: 11/18/2003 8:21:05 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Cincinnatus was kind enough to e-mail the text of the Israeli RKBA regs. Providing one has lived in Israel for at least 3 years, and is either a reservist, a resident along the border buffer zones, West Bank or Gaza Settler, Retired Military of at least NCO rank, retired corrections officer. A bus driver may own a handgun, and a animal control officer may own a non select fire, non semi auto rifle. If one reads the actual regs it is easy to read between the lines that Arabs do not get the same treatmant that their Jewish couterparts do, but because they can own bolt action and pump action rifles and handguns, I must say I was in error, and thank Cincinnatus; and Paolo; for correcting my mistake.

Remember, nearly all Israelis are reservists or retired reservists. Those that are not (mostly very religious jews and liberal commie pinko faggots) voluntarily removed themselves from the right to keep and bear arms. All arabs are allowed to join the Israeli military, but they are not drafted as are the jews. I am not sure about the Druize, but I know most do serve. In Israel, you are a second class citizen if you don't serve. No one is excluded from serving. Those that choose not to are treated accordingly. The exception is the religious jews, though Sharon (in what will be one of the greatest triumphs of his administration) is breaking the lock the religious jews had in the ruling coalitions. For the first time in about 30 years, the religious parties are not in the cabinet.

So, I guess the Israeli soldiers who refuse to take part in a brutal and illegal occupation are in the commie pinko category......even the ranking Colonel who refused and was jailed......because it was against his religous and moral conscience?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Israeli media really pissed me off this time... (Page 2 of 3)

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