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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:38:26 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's amazing how many republicans become democrats whenever they think they're in the majority. Christianity itself is a rejection of the theocratic state. Our nation was founded on enlightenment values which are a further rejection of church and state interfering with one another. Displaying the ten commandments in courthouses is incredibly inappropriate and counterproductive, as is all the dominionist agenda. A majority doesn't make it different than a display of Sharia in the same context. No conservative should want the government involved in religion, or in the position to dictate what is or is not appropriate religious expression. I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:39:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it was a total in your face gesture rather than a promotion of wholesome thought. Most people view the 10 commandents as a humanitarian guide and don't get religiously offended. I don't recommend either in public places, but you are defending a bunch of assholes. I'm on the side of the lesser assholes. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:39:51 PM EDT
[#4]
I’m sure these guys were there.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:40:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ozzy 
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we are going to throw stones over who has murdered more people, Christianity beats communism by far. Oppression campaigns brought on by "christian" leaders in medieval Europe which were done for purely political purposes don't exactly count. The motivation was entirely power based corrupt, they just had a tendency to put churchy words on it to make people accept it. Which is pretty much exactly what I was just saying about evil never presenting itself openly, but always in some other guise. In any case, I want to see these church death squads that must exist to have accomplished what you're claiming here. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think you Christian guys relize of how sick and tired we atheists are of religion in general. It's hilarious to watch you guys loose your shit over this. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:45:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we are going to throw stones over who has murdered more people, Christianity beats communism by far. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Psalm 9:17
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. I ain’t worried one bit about this. It’s taken no one by surprise. This nation will continue to deteriorate and at this point that’s exactly what it needs. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:50:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Communism murdered over a hundred million peope in the 20th century. It starved them. It tortured them. It tore down the churches they would've turned to. It's soldiers indiscriminately raped the women of Berlin in 1945. It murdered Jews by the millions. It crucified and burned people alive, in huge numbers. Evil almost never presents itself openly, you of all people should know that. It always comes in some other desireable guise. Such as the great worker's utopia. Or in the form of racial purity. Or something else, doesn't matter. It always comes well presented by those who are truly wolves in sheep's clothing. By their fruits, you shall know them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Communism isn't "the same thing as satanism" Communism murdered over a hundred million peope in the 20th century. It starved them. It tortured them. It tore down the churches they would've turned to. It's soldiers indiscriminately raped the women of Berlin in 1945. It murdered Jews by the millions. It crucified and burned people alive, in huge numbers. Evil almost never presents itself openly, you of all people should know that. It always comes in some other desireable guise. Such as the great worker's utopia. Or in the form of racial purity. Or something else, doesn't matter. It always comes well presented by those who are truly wolves in sheep's clothing. By their fruits, you shall know them. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:52:30 PM EDT
[#11]
All hail baphomet
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:55:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Things to think about before you marry a Catholic girl from NY. Make better decisions in life. I would have. I did.
ETA: For clarification------If you are that caught up about raising your kids in your religion, maybe you should have considered that before you married into Catholicism? And that was a conscious thought in my 23 year old mind when I asked my wife to marry me, or it had been. Do I bolt because this is getting to serious, or are we actually compatible for ever and ever? @aimless I love the debate, don't let me down 
Seriously I think when the local Jesus loving politicians want to put up a new religious statue on the courthouse lawn they need federal court to kick them in the balls and tell them to knock it off. This isn't 1776, this a nation where people travel freely and frequently throughout the country and it's trying to shove some shit in the eyes of Sikhs, Hindus. Atheists etc to put up new Jesus statues on the courthouse lawn. Eastbumfuck flyover land is happy to get a new young Hindu pediatrician in town when the one little kid doctor in town is dottering around at 78 and saying he's moving to Florida. Litigation over statues, rocks, signs etc put up by the locals 70 years ago is dumb, and so it the ridiculous litigation over Nativity scenes. I don't know any non christians who care at all about holiday stuff. I think those people are people who would also be generally discontent in life and would complain about something else if it wasn't this. The new Hindu pediatrician isn't going to get mad and throw snowballs at Baby Jesus on the courthouse lawn, he wants a positive relationship with his 99% christian patients and understands that caring for his child patients means also getting along with their parents. If he wants to buy a Ganesh statue to put up whenever some Hindu holiday is, he ought to be able to do that. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:56:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All hail baphomet 
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:58:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's amazing how many republicans become democrats whenever they think they're in the majority. Christianity itself is a rejection of the theocratic state. Our nation was founded on enlightenment values which are a further rejection of church and state interfering with one another. Displaying the ten commandments in courthouses is incredibly inappropriate and counterproductive, as is all the dominionist agenda. A majority doesn't make it different than a display of Sharia in the same context. No conservative should want the government involved in religion, or in the position to dictate what is or is not appropriate religious expression. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:59:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:02:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just playing "Devil's Advocate"  
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:02:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not aware of any Christian death camps for athiests. Oppression campaigns brought on by "christian" leaders in medieval Europe which were done for purely political purposes don't exactly count. The motivation was entirely power based corrupt, they just had a tendency to put churchy words on it to make people accept it. Which is pretty much exactly what I was just saying about evil never presenting itself openly, but always in some other guise. In any case, I want to see these church death squads that must exist to have accomplished what you're claiming here. Grand scale evil requires convincing large numbers of otherwise decent people that they can murder, enslave and torture and still be the good guys. At the very least judeo-christianity has a long history of being one of the main ideologies used for this purpose. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:03:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter if it's Satanists or Christians in the majority voting to violate the establishment clause, it's still unconstitutional. You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:03:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think my point was anywhere near the definition of "losing my shit." OTOH, it is amusing to see atheists get upset by something they claim does not exist. Islam doesn't bother me - they don't affect my daily life buddhism doesn't bother me - they don't affect my daily life Judaism doesn't bother me - they don't effect my daily life. Christians do bother me, they can't seem to shut up and MYOB. They do effect my daily life with their influence in our laws and social engineering. After typing this shit I relize no ones mind on this site is going to change, so fuck this thread. I'm out. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:05:25 PM EDT
[#20]
It needs a speaker in it looping Reign in blood loud as fuck
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:06:50 PM EDT
[#21]
“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.
1) Spock was a shitty philosopher and a cartoon spaceman. 2) Rights trump utilities |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:09:01 PM EDT
[#22]
There used to be a religious sign in a courthouse that I walked by a million times even though it was in a back administrative area not generally open to the public, although maybe you could still see it from another room. It disappeared when there was a turn over in administration. I only really noticed it by its absence.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:10:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is probably true. I'm talking about the 1%. The reason they are 1% is because the other 99% of satan worshippers disguise at something else and won't even see themselves that way anyway. There are some things that it's a bad idea to cavalierly play around with. Giant statues of the prince of darkness are among those things. Being controlled by fear of spooks is kinda pathetic for a grown ass man
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:11:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not the first time this statue has been "unveiled". I think the atheist/satanic/humanist group that commissioned the statue is using it as a travelling attraction. Looks like the same one to me: http://time.com/3972713/detroit-satanic-statue-baphomet/ https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/mattanderson5.jpg |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:11:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freedom for all religions. Good for them. Statue is boring though. Needs more animatronics 
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:11:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". 1) Spock was a shitty philosopher and a cartoon spaceman. 2) Rights trump utilities
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:12:51 PM EDT
[#27]
History
In 2014, The Satanic Temple began a crowdsourcing campaign on Indiegogo for a Satanic monument depicting Baphomet with two children, with the intention to display this monument at the Oklahoma State Capitol. The group's fundraising page stated that the statue was to be erected in response to a then-present Ten Commandments Monument installed by Oklahoma State Representative Mike Ritze in 2012. The following year, in 2015, the satanic monument was unveiled at the Detroit chapter of The Satanic Temple amidst protests by religious organizations. Vice reported that the 700 attendees at the unveiling ceremony had to sell their souls to Satan in order to receive a ticket, a tactic that the Temple stated was done in order to "keep away some of the more radical superstitious people who would try to undermine the event. Time noted that "the group does not 'promote a belief in a personal Satan.' By their logic, Satan is an abstraction, ... 'a literary figure, not a deity — he stands for rationality, for skepticism, for speaking truth to power, even at great personal cost.' Time also commented on the statue's unveiling, writing "Call it Libertarian Gothic, maybe — some darker permutation of Ayn Rand's crusade for free will. One witnesses in The Satanic Temple militia a certain knee-jerk reaction to encroachments upon personal liberties, especially when those encroachments come with a crucifix in hand. The Baphomet statue is the Satanic Temple’s defiant retort du jour. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we are going to throw stones over who has murdered more people, Christianity beats communism by far. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Really? Communism murdered over a hundred million peope in the 20th century. It starved them. It tortured them. It tore down the churches they would've turned to. It's soldiers indiscriminately raped the women of Berlin in 1945. It murdered Jews by the millions. It crucified and burned people alive, in huge numbers. Evil almost never presents itself openly, you of all people should know that. It always comes in some other desireable guise. Such as the great worker's utopia. Or in the form of racial purity. Or something else, doesn't matter. It always comes well presented by those who are truly wolves in sheep's clothing. By their fruits, you shall know them.  
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:18:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter if it's Satanists or Christians in the majority voting to violate the establishment clause, it's still unconstitutional. You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. It would be like having a popular vote on banning guns and gun confiscation. It shouldn't fucking matter if the majority wants to disarm the minority, the Constitution protects against this. Or it should... |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:19:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dream on, we disagree. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:20:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nailed it. It would be like having a popular vote on banning guns and gun confiscation. It shouldn't fucking matter if the majority wants to disarm the minority, the Constitution protects against this. Or it should... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. It would be like having a popular vote on banning guns and gun confiscation. It shouldn't fucking matter if the majority wants to disarm the minority, the Constitution protects against this. Or it should... |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:21:30 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:22:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you think the majority should be able to vote away the rights of the minority? That the majority can violate the constitution? That's not how it's supposed to work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not establishing a religion. It's establishing what the locals want in art work on their courthouse steps. You have seriously twisted my words. I no way, shape, or form are they comparable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. It would be like having a popular vote on banning guns and gun confiscation. It shouldn't fucking matter if the majority wants to disarm the minority, the Constitution protects against this. Or it should... FWIW I know the public didn't pay for this statue, but they have paid for other religious statues. Also FWIW, I don't really care if the 10 commandments are displayed, but it's tough to argue against other religions being represented then as well. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:24:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is probably true. I'm talking about the 1%. The reason they are 1% is because the other 99% of satan worshippers disguise at something else and won't even see themselves that way anyway. There are some things that it's a bad idea to cavalierly play around with. Giant statues of the prince of darkness are among those things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think Satanists are probably 99% trolls. Remember our devil worshiper "lady" who ended up being a dude? The reason they are 1% is because the other 99% of satan worshippers disguise at something else and won't even see themselves that way anyway. There are some things that it's a bad idea to cavalierly play around with. Giant statues of the prince of darkness are among those things. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:24:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. I want the locals to be able to decide what kind of artwork they want on their courthouse steps. I have already posted in this thread if the majority of the locals wanted a satan statue, let ride.(paraphrased but basically what I said without looking it up.) Go back and read it if you want the exact statement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:26:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Baphomet has titties. This statue doesn't. Are Satanists afraid of obscenity laws? I guess they aren't as edgy as they put on. Pussies.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:27:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... the answer to my question is actually "yes" lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. If 13 freaking people want that statue on the steps and the rest of Little Rock doesn't how does that make me a bad person. You seriously need to lighten up. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:30:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, fwiw, he didn't say Christian. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
America was founded as a Christian nation it is unsuitable for any other kind of people. Bulldoze that abomination to the ground it is an offense to the God of our founders. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
-John Adams |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:32:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes to what? Where does a representative republic start and where does it end? If 13 freaking people want that statue on the steps and the rest of Little Rock doesn't how does that make me a bad person. You seriously need to lighten up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL, MMMMMKAY I want local control. For the record. The government works for the people, not the other way around. I stated that if the locals were majority satanists let it ride. You can read that earlier in the thread. But then READING IS FUNDAMENTAL so...... You want pure democracy, that's suicidal. Nice talking to you. Have a good day. If 13 freaking people want that statue on the steps and the rest of Little Rock doesn't how does that make me a bad person. You seriously need to lighten up. My point is that it doesn't really matter how many people want any religious statue there. There shouldn't be ANY religious statue there, as IMO that would be considered "respecting an establishment of religion". This isn't a personal attack on you, I just think you're wrong and not thinking about the implications of the majority being about to do unconstitutional things. ETA- oh, and "yes" to my question which you quoted, answered "no" to, but then proceeded to justify a "yes" answer- you think the majority should be able to vote away the constitution. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:32:27 PM EDT
[#41]
I never thought that thing would get installed. Any idea on what it cost?
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#42]
That's pretty fuckin badass.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:34:42 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:37:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I...didn't say you were a bad person, and I'm not freaking out. Just having a conversation...maybe you should lighten up a little? My point is that it doesn't really matter how many people want any religious statue there. There shouldn't be ANY religious statue there, as IMO that would be considered "respecting an establishment of religion". This isn't a personal attack on you, I just think you're wrong and not thinking about the implications of the majority being about to do unconstitutional things. My point is when does local control come into play? Nobody is saying you can't be a satanist. Simply saying take your statue to private property please, because we find it ugly. When a large group of citizens(presupposed by me because there appear to be 13 supporters in the photo) goes to it's local reps and say we find this ugly....Should they be heard? Or should the 13 in the photo get their way? None of that has anything to do with establishment or the 2nd amendment. It has to do with local control and being a representative republic. Or that is my argument anyway. We can disagree if you like. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:44:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your twisting of my words into 2nd amendment implications they do not imply. It seemed we were not just having a conversation when you rolled it up into that. My point is when does local control come into play? Nobody is saying you can't be a satanist. Simply saying take your statue to private property please, because we find it ugly. When a large group of citizens(presupposed by me because there appear to be 13 supporters in the photo) goes to it's local reps and say we find this ugly....Should they be heard? Or should the 13 in the photo get their way? None of that has anything to do with establishment or the 2nd amendment. It has to do with local control and being a representative republic. Or that is my argument anyway. We can disagree if you like. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I...didn't say you were a bad person, and I'm not freaking out. Just having a conversation...maybe you should lighten up a little? My point is that it doesn't really matter how many people want any religious statue there. There shouldn't be ANY religious statue there, as IMO that would be considered "respecting an establishment of religion". This isn't a personal attack on you, I just think you're wrong and not thinking about the implications of the majority being about to do unconstitutional things. My point is when does local control come into play? Nobody is saying you can't be a satanist. Simply saying take your statue to private property please, because we find it ugly. When a large group of citizens(presupposed by me because there appear to be 13 supporters in the photo) goes to it's local reps and say we find this ugly....Should they be heard? Or should the 13 in the photo get their way? None of that has anything to do with establishment or the 2nd amendment. It has to do with local control and being a representative republic. Or that is my argument anyway. We can disagree if you like. As far as who should be heard, both the majority and the minority should be HEARD, but NEITHER should be allowed to get their way if it violates the constitution. All religions should take their statues to private property, or it should be fair game for all not at tax payer expense. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:48:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're totally missing my point. It does have to do with establishment if they allow one religion to be represented at the court house but no others. It seems to me that's a violation of the 1st Amendment, and if the majority can violate the 1st, why not the 2nd too? That's my point. As far as who should be heard, both the majority and the minority should be HEARD, but NEITHER should be allowed to get their way if it violates the constitution. All religions should take their statues to private property, or it should be fair game for all not at tax payer expense. To me, again only to me, your argument sounds like we need to cater to the needs of 13 people regardless of what the needs of 13,000 are. Why can't they be free to worship who they want, without having a statue that is ugly on the courthouse steps. This is why we can't have nice things, in my opinion only. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:50:52 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:59:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that a little Barry Soetero statue looking up to it? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 3:01:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, respectfully, we just disagree with how we see it. My contention relies on 13 people or an equal percentage of, given the population. If I live there, I will be in the portion who says that thing is ugly get it off the steps. But feel free to worship who you want. To me, again only to me, your argument sounds like we need to cater to the needs of 13 people regardless of what the needs of 13,000 are. Why can't they be free to worship who they want, without having a statue that is ugly on the courthouse steps. This is why we can't have nice things, in my opinion only. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So you're totally missing my point. It does have to do with establishment if they allow one religion to be represented at the court house but no others. It seems to me that's a violation of the 1st Amendment, and if the majority can violate the 1st, why not the 2nd too? That's my point. As far as who should be heard, both the majority and the minority should be HEARD, but NEITHER should be allowed to get their way if it violates the constitution. All religions should take their statues to private property, or it should be fair game for all not at tax payer expense. To me, again only to me, your argument sounds like we need to cater to the needs of 13 people regardless of what the needs of 13,000 are. Why can't they be free to worship who they want, without having a statue that is ugly on the courthouse steps. This is why we can't have nice things, in my opinion only. I'm saying the constitution holds the answer, and it doesn't care what the 13 or the 13,000 want. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 3:01:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barry and Hillary admiring their Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is that a little Barry Soetero statue looking up to it? |
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