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Posted: 8/17/2018 11:53:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the Taser grab justified the shooting, but I have to agree with Bama, the circumstances that led up to the Taser grab were pretty shitty. I hate Sovereigns. Don't get me wrong. The guy seems like a total douche. He won't be missed, but the lady cop needs to be.....dealt with. At the end of the day, it all comes back to....the side of the road is not the time to fight with the police. If they do something out of line, you fight them in court. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 11:58:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think the shoot is bad if the guy took the cops taser? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bad shoot. I hope there's a big civil suit over it and the agency gets reamed. 2) Since the man committed no crime, was unreasonably stopped by a "police officer" (in quotations because she is apparently that in name only), and the "officer" escalated because SHE FEARED FOR HER LIFE FROM A LAWSUIT, yeah, the shoot is bad. I'll bet you were one of the people saying the FL parking space shooter is guilty because he caused the incident which led to the man shoving him. (Knock it off. -40xb) |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 11:59:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cop demanded his license because he was leaving an animal shelter? Wtf 
there's a cop at the animal shelter? In Ny there are cops all over but at the animal shelter and dmv (from another thread) weird |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:01:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my former chief and i had some run ins with several here. they "tried him in their court" and pronounced a death sentenced on him and other members of the dept. as i was riding with him on the stop i received some threats as well as a reserve. Sovereigns are fucking loons and yes many do have a sincere desire to kill police, more than a few have. That is a major reason they are treated as a direct threat when encountered. No this guy didn't deserve to die and that le fucked up. At the end of the day i still won't shed a tear over him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just another instance of poorly trained cops. Far as I'm concerned she should just lose her job but so should her supervisor who let her go out and the people that trained her and said that she was qualified to be a cop. I've known two different cops that came out of training and we're convinced all Sovereign citizens were out to kill law enforcement. kept talking about the video of the guys with AK-47 jumping out of the van. Would not listen to any reason that they all weren't out to kill them. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:02:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who the fuck cares? It was no one’s business as to who he was, least of all the police. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:04:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Who the fuck cares? It was no one’s business as to who he was, least of all the police. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:09:13 PM EDT
[#7]
I’m having a hard time believing that, after reading some of the responses here, I watched the same video that other people did.
That dude was summarily expected while being held by two cops and a civilian. He had no control of his limbs and wasn’t doing anything with anyone’s taser at the time he was murdered. Fuck that bitch, I hope she spends the rest of her life looking over her shoulder if she hasn’t been sent to prison to share a cell with a violent, aggressive 350lb ghetto lesbian. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:10:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Who the fuck cares? It was no one’s business as to who he was, least of all the police. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:12:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what did this guy do to have the cops called? ETA: Cop was already there and his crime was not producing a drivers license for the dog shelter to see and then them saying he couldn't leave? Is that right? That guy was murdered. But if he had just produced a drivers license or was peaceful with the cops having committed no crimes, none of this would have happened. I hope the survivors hit the city with false imprisonment/kinapping as well. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:13:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my take on it....I think the detention over the ID was bullshit, but that doesn't justify him in trying to take / possibly use the taser. At the end of the day, it all comes back to....the side of the road is not the time to fight with the police. If they do something out of line, you fight them in court. Obviously, you're correct that the smarter thing to do would have been to not resist and solve the problem later in Court. Much better than taking a bullet to the liver. Once the officer steps outside of the law, the officer has no reason to detain a suspect and no more legal protection than Joe-Six-Pack. It is very arguable that this officer went outside the law...so... whoops. Based on what I see here on the internet from the comfort of my air-conditioned office and without any connection to any of the parties and devoid of any possibility of political blow-back.. I probably would have made a different charging decision. 
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:13:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's crazy. How often do those sovereign citizen clowns threaten you guys? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:16:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh. He was an asshole trying to prove a point and get attention, and it worked. Good shoot? Bad shoot? Dunno. I'm just saying it's hard to give a damn about people like this Either way, they taught his family to trust the government to always do the wrong thing. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:17:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you? Since you seemed to have missed it let me go over it for you. Here in GD on AR15.com we have some real dumbasses. We have some people that think you should be able to physically assault someone that was talking to a person other then you without any worry of the other persons defending themselves against a further violent attack. These people seem to believe that if a person is the victim of the fore mentioned violence and he uses justifiable force to stop further violence he should be arrested and charged with a crime. We also have people ( some in both groups) that want us to live in a police state. A place where it’s just fine for the kings men to stop you and ask for your papers when you have done nothing illegal. People that think it’s just fine for those kings men to kill you because you fought back when they assaulted you. What both of these kinds of people have in common is a hate and fear of those that will stand up for themselves against the animals and the government. They are so afraid that if they make waves they will draw attention from the kings men and lose what little freedom they have left and they are much too stupid to realize that just by feeling that way they have already given their freedom away. People don’t think freedom be scary like it is but it do Now, since I seemed to have missed your point will you please explain it to me? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:17:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there a few notable families of them in this area. most are shitbirds that steal copper and sling dope for a living. pretty much every interaction with them is an event. they have slung bogus lawsuits against cities and city employees as well as made direct written and verbal threats in some cases.  , do they file a ton of bogus paperwork with the Secretary of State and your County Clerk putting clouds on titles of everyone who has given them the side-eye?
That shit gets old. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:20:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think she got lucky that the person was an SC. To me he is lawfully resisting an unlawful detention. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:21:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But what about the liens , do they file a ton of bogus paperwork with the Secretary of State and your County Clerk putting clouds on titles of everyone who has given them the side-eye?
That shit gets old. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:24:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you feel about the shelter telling him he couldn't leave after he wouldn't show ID? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I think she got lucky that the person was an SC. To me he is lawfully resisting an unlawful detention. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:24:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
luckily the courts here have become wise to that shit and shut much of it down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: But what about the liens , do they file a ton of bogus paperwork with the Secretary of State and your County Clerk putting clouds on titles of everyone who has given them the side-eye?
That shit gets old. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:26:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree 100% in this case. When he attempted to take the cops taser, things went pear shaped. The whole deal was exacerbated by the incorrect actions of the police. It shouldn't have happened in the first place and wouldn't have if they had followed their own laws. EDIT: That said, Sovereign citizenship is not something that I support. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:26:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except that, as I read Alabama Law, and I am by no means an Alabama Lawyer so you should take that FWIW, which is almost nothing, it may legally justify the SC's actions. Obviously, you're correct that the smarter thing to do would have been to not resist and solve the problem later in Court. Much better than taking a bullet to the liver. Once the officer steps outside of the law, the officer has no reason to detain a suspect and no more legal protection than Joe-Six-Pack. It is very arguable that this officer went outside the law...so... whoops. Based on what I see here on the internet from the comfort of my air-conditioned office and without any connection to any of the parties and devoid of any possibility of political blow-back.. I probably would have made a different charging decision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is my take on it....I think the detention over the ID was bullshit, but that doesn't justify him in trying to take / possibly use the taser. At the end of the day, it all comes back to....the side of the road is not the time to fight with the police. If they do something out of line, you fight them in court. Obviously, you're correct that the smarter thing to do would have been to not resist and solve the problem later in Court. Much better than taking a bullet to the liver. Once the officer steps outside of the law, the officer has no reason to detain a suspect and no more legal protection than Joe-Six-Pack. It is very arguable that this officer went outside the law...so... whoops. Based on what I see here on the internet from the comfort of my air-conditioned office and without any connection to any of the parties and devoid of any possibility of political blow-back.. I probably would have made a different charging decision. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:27:05 PM EDT
[#21]
What kind of animal shelter has a cop working there?
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:27:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
luckily the courts here have become wise to that shit and shut much of it down. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:28:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Who the fuck cares? It was no one’s business as to who he was, least of all the police. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:29:56 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm going to guess the female cop thought she was going to taze him.
Oops wrong weapon! |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:31:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While you may be right on the law, it seems like a very fine line to walk.....ie, what level for force is someone allowed to use against an unlawful detention and does it change if that person is a police officer? I'm obviously not smart enough to know the answer from a legal standpoint, but my guess is this guys family is about to get a payday. Doesn't mean the SC was legally wrong, it just means he is dead; which is better or worse depending on your ethos. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:31:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Holy crap. Sovereign citizens are tools, and I enjoy watching them get owned. This was bad. He made the situation worse, but I don't see any justification for the detention. Therefore bad shoot.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:33:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. Not a choice I would make on the roadside. Doesn't mean the SC was legally wrong, it just means he is dead; which is better or worse depending on your ethos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
While you may be right on the law, it seems like a very fine line to walk.....ie, what level for force is someone allowed to use against an unlawful detention and does it change if that person is a police officer? I'm obviously not smart enough to know the answer from a legal standpoint, but my guess is this guys family is about to get a payday. Doesn't mean the SC was legally wrong, it just means he is dead; which is better or worse depending on your ethos. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:36:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of animal shelter has a cop working there? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:36:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A contact shot in the middle of a melee seems like a stupid idea in general, let alone on a guy who isn't armed. Why do cops even carry tasers if all they do is lose them in the melee with the suspect? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:38:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take the ride to jail and sue them. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:43:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take the ride to jail and sue them. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:45:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People lie about who they are. Shocking, isn't it? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:45:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Did she think that she'd grabbed her tazer? Or maybe thought he'd grabbed a gun from one of the cops?
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:46:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll take the ride to jail and sue them. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:48:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freudian slip. Sorry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Who the fuck cares? It was no one’s business as to who he was, least of all the police. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:50:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s a dupe. First topic has the video. Retards and assholes all around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cliff notes? Retards and assholes all around. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Video-of-fatal-police-shooting-involving-sovereign-citizen/5-2138317/ |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:57:10 PM EDT
[#37]
I’ll go with bad shoot and she through she drew her taxer.
Luckily one of the kids weren’t hit too given the angle |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:57:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quota hire doing quota hire stuff.
At what point does picking up a stray dog and taking it to a shelter for care make someone a " sovereign citizen " ? |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 12:58:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suspicion of suspicion is never enough. There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of an actual crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Confrontational/suspicious activity doesn't warrant a request for ID? There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of an actual crime. To argue otherwise is just a hatred of math. And, you know who hates math? Women. Don't be a woman. [/case] |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:10:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the other officer provided a sufficient backstop to limit danger to the public if the shot overpenetrated the guy being detained. 
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:20:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If "six of ten" is 6/10=60%, the "suspicion of suspicion" is 100%. That is articulable and it is math. To argue otherwise is just a hatred of math. And, you know who hates math? Women. Don't be a woman. [/case] Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Confrontational/suspicious activity doesn't warrant a request for ID? There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of an actual crime. To argue otherwise is just a hatred of math. And, you know who hates math? Women. Don't be a woman. [/case] |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:38:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you now, or have you ever been a cave-man lawyer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Confrontational/suspicious activity doesn't warrant a request for ID? There must be reasonable articulable suspicion of an actual crime. To argue otherwise is just a hatred of math. And, you know who hates math? Women. Don't be a woman. [/case] So, upon reflection, all of the nouns seem to be correct, so I'm just not sure if a simple "no" is an entirely truthful response. I think "math monkey" is the most accurate description of my role for those guys. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:42:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my take on it....I think the detention over the ID was bullshit, but that doesn't justify him in trying to take / possibly use the taser. At the end of the day, it all comes back to....the side of the road is not the time to fight with the police. If they do something out of line, you fight them in court. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:53:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Bad detention, bad shoot. That being said, act like a 'tard, don't get upset when the window doesn't taste so good.
Neither female needs to be a cop, ever again. I would have let the dude drive away, pulled him over for driving without a license and then found a reason to tow his car and really make him a free man, wandering along the land. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Fat "muh authority" cop belongs in a cell. Like, forever.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 1:59:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Life lesson.
Never pick up stray dogs because the government will kill you over it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:06:30 PM EDT
[#47]
She gets to play the disability card. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:12:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bad detention, bad shoot. That being said, act like a 'tard, don't get upset when the window doesn't taste so good. Neither female needs to be a cop, ever again. I would have let the dude drive away, pulled him over for driving without a license and then found a reason to tow his car and really make him a free man, wandering along the land. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:16:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, but there's still that nagging element of probable cause to be dealt with to justify the traffic stop...though it might be likely that the dead fellow's belief system might have gone as far as him "sticking it to the man" via a lack of vehicle maintenance that resulted in no attempt to have a safety inspection. But...since Alabama doesn't appear to require an annual safety inspection, you'd better hope that license plate light is out. |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:23:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your reading skills are impeccable. It clearly says that the Alabama officer shot and killed a sovereign citizen. Not an officer was shot and killed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Complicated story, simple analysis: man dead after collision of assholes. Thread title is incorrect. Officer was not shot. He does have a point. The thread title is extremely unclear, and reads like shit. It should say: "Sovereign citizen shot and killed by Alabama Police Officer." If he reached for the taser, he got what he asked for. |
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