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Posted: 10/26/2003 8:04:07 AM EDT


* PIERCING THE CORPORATE VEILS OF GOVERNMENT *
________________________________________________________________
The term "Piercing the Corporate Veil" is a legal one which identifies the
process where a court removes the protection provided individual members of
a corporation for criminal activity, and makes these members responsible for
their own actions.
The reality, according to the original meaning of corporations, is that these
corporate groups were established exactly for that reason --
for unlawful purposes -- primarily to escape punishment for their crimes
by placing the blame on a fictional organization responsible to no one.
The "United States" government jumped on the corporate bandwagon the
first part of the 1870's by declaring themselves a separate entity from
Constitutional government. This, of course, followed the war between the
states and the supposed Fourteenth Amendment (which lawfully never was, but
was accepted by the newly formed corporation called the "United States.")
The fact that the Constitution had already established a United States was
inconsequential to those traitors in Congress because it was the
Constitution itself they wanted destroyed and the war, instigated by the
Jewish factions of Europe, was fought for this purpose. All the flowery
fictions blamed for the war are pure fantasy. Corporations, themselves, are
natural processes of society, that is, when a group of people gather for a
particular purpose, such as for forming a community, they are a corporation
and there can be no criminal intent attached thereto, but it is when
corporations are established with the power to declare themselves "bankrupt"
that makes them criminal. This is the situation of our government today; the
richest, most powerful nation on earth is "bankrupt." Just the thought is
ridiculous.
Corporations are legal fictions; that is, they do not exist
except in the minds of men. Anyone can create a fantasy in their own mind
and make it do for them what they please, but these fantasies cannot nor do
they extend to areas outside the realm of personal capacity. Corporations
are made of living, breathing men, all with the same ideas and purposes. We
can look upon them with the same limitations as the individual, and that is
their jurisdiction is confined to the lawful area of their creation.
A corporation, being a legal fiction, cannot think, it cannot act in any
manner, it cannot even communicate with natural man, and for this reason it
must have somebody, or bodies to speak and act for it, and the lawyers have
set themselves up for this task. The enormity of corporate enterprises is
limited only by imagination and they are gold mines for the bar
associations, which are corporations themselves. Even thieves must leave an
out for themselves, as they never know when the worm will turn; and "dumb"
burrowing rodents will have at least two exits from their dens. After years
of research, a few people have found what we believe to be that "out" from
corporate jurisdiction (which has been milking the citizens of this nation
for well over a century). We have had great success with this "out" and the
shocked looks and frenzies of Judges presented with this procedure show us
that we are on the right track. As all other sure things, however, we can't
rest on our laurels and be smug with our assumptions that it is fool proof.
We have to remember that it took the lawyer profession many years to come up
with their gimmicks and they aren't going to fall over and play dead as we
proceed to break up their play houses and we know from experience that they
know how to play rough. The idea is to hit hard, fast, and as widespread as
possible before they can see what is happening and that is why we need as
much diversity and geographical application as we can muster.
There is nothing complicated about the procedure of disclaiming corporation
existence, which is what all this is about. The difficulty lies in
overcoming a lifetime of corporate propaganda and we have had great
difficulty in this area. We, who work with this procedure, went through the
same agonizing process before we realized that it really works. We were
looking for the complicated when the answer to our problems was right under
our noses all of the time. I don't mean to write a book and omit the meat of
my subject, but you will find that some prosecutors and judges just haven't
got the picture yet and will ask your source of information when you go
before them, and you need a little background to keep from being embarrassed.
Again, try not to read difficulty into a perfectly simple procedure which is
outlined below. Not having access to laws of other States, I can only quote
from those to which I have access, and those are of Louisiana. We have tried
this system in Alabama and Florida and know it works there (we didn't even
research the law books in those states before acting) and we have to assume
it will work nationally as the corporation veil encompasses every nook and
cranny of the nation. For this very reason, we can't see where a general
withdrawal from their jurisdiction is possible. Every case must be decided
on its own until there are enough of us, and locations, to make the
corporate masters accept the fact that they can't fight it.
Please read the two sections from the Louisiana Civil Codes, and the Louisiana
Revised Statutes below carefully; dissect them word by word and the message will
come out loud and clear. Civil Codes of Louisiana - Art. 445. The statutes
and regulations which corporations enact for their police and discipline,
are obligatory upon all their respective members who are bound to obey them,
provided such statutes contain nothing contrary to the laws, to public
liberty, or to the interest of others.
Louisiana Revised Statutes - Art. 429.
Corporate existence presumed unless affidavit of denial filed before
trial.
On trial of any criminal case it shall not be necessary to prove the
incorporation of any corporation mentioned in the indictment, unless the
defendant, before entering upon such trial, shall have filed his affidavit
specifically denying the existence of such corporation.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:20:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 8:21:51 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
any particular reason you didn't put all of these threads in the same thread?

mike
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:33:03 AM EDT
Yes. It was too long. The board is limited to 8k characters. This was a bit over 16k. Make sense?
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:37:33 AM EDT
no,

you split the post into 3 in the same thread. instead of 3 seperate threads that will get seperated and lost.

mike
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:00:33 AM EDT
I'll keep that in mind for the next post.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:03:46 AM EDT
wasn't trying to slam you. just pointing out that all most folks will see is this thread as it is on page one and the other 2 have dropped off the radar.

Good info needs to be available in one location.

mike
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:26:09 AM EDT
why don't you just use a hyperlink to the "article" from that nutjob tinfoil hat site you got it from....instead of copying it and using up a lot of bandwidth.

here is a hyperlink you definitely need....

zapatopi.net/afdb.html#1
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 4:05:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
wasn't trying to slam you. just pointing out that all most folks will see is this thread as it is on page one and the other 2 have dropped off the radar.

Good info needs to be available in one location.

mike



I agree. I'm just not used to useing this sight that much. Hang out mostly in Frugals and AWRM.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 4:15:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sfcret:
why don't you just use a hyperlink to the "article" from that nutjob tinfoil hat site you got it from....instead of copying it and using up a lot of bandwidth.

here is a hyperlink you definitely need....

zapatopi.net/afdb.html#1



Let me see if I have this right. You can't argue facts and prove it wrong so you have to resort to a personal attack? Speaks for itself.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:00:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:

Let me see if I have this right. You can't argue facts and prove it wrong so you have to resort to a personal attack? Speaks for itself.



oh pleeeeese, you call this "facts"?

"primarily to escape punishment for their crimes
by placing the blame on a fictional organization responsible to no one.
The "United States" government jumped on the corporate bandwagon the
first part of the 1870's by declaring themselves a separate entity from
Constitutional government. This, of course, followed the war between the
states and the supposed Fourteenth Amendment (which lawfully never was, but
was accepted by the newly formed corporation called the "United States.")
The fact that the Constitution had already established a United States was
inconsequential to those traitors in Congress because it was the
Constitution itself they wanted destroyed and the war, instigated by the
Jewish factions of Europe, was fought for this purpose"

maybe the nut cakes, and the tin hat ninnies over at Frugals and AWRM may believe this horseshit....doesn't mean everyone else subscribes to this nutjob view.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:25:39 PM EDT
Yes I do. In 1871 THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Inc. was created and entered into the federal registry. You can find it there in the library of congress. That is a verifiable fact. Not too up on your history are you? I won’t hold it against you as any school that takes a penny of federal funding has to teach mandated courses that don’t give you what you need to know about our history, government and courts. Much easier to keep people as slaves when they merely think they are free. Care to try another approach?
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:36:44 PM EDT
I've read the post; I have no idea what it is saying. And even though I am an attorney, I can't understand the legal mumbo-jumbo.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 6:51:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat:
I've read the post; I have no idea what it is saying. And even though I am an attorney, I can't understand the legal mumbo-jumbo.



If you are an attorney, then you know EXSACTLY what it says. Just as you know that only members of the corporation are bound by the corporate laws we know as statues. That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 8:32:02 PM EDT by SNorman]

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
Yes I do. In 1871 THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Inc. was created and entered into the federal registry. You can find it there in the library of congress. That is a verifiable fact. Not too up on your history are you? I won’t hold it against you as any school that takes a penny of federal funding has to teach mandated courses that don’t give you what you need to know about our history, government and courts. Much easier to keep people as slaves when they merely think they are free. Care to try another approach?



Let me get this straight... you're saying the US Government is a corporation? Wtf are you talking about? Can you tell me who the shareholders are, who the officers are, how about some earnings reports?

Anywho, why don't you do some research on the hows and whys of corporations, the article you posted was quite neive.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 2:39:42 AM EDT

Let me get this straight... you're saying the US Government is a corporation? Wtf are you talking about? Can you tell me who the shareholders are, who the officers are, how about some earnings reports?

Anywho, why don't you do some research on the hows and whys of corporations, the article you posted was quite neive.

That's not exactly what was said. the united States of America and THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA are 2 completely different animals. One is the Republic form of government you are guaranteed under the Constitution. The other is a corporation that is somewhat entangled in the original, but one that can be avoided if you know how. We have had great success in doing just that up here in Wi. I'm not up on posting pix so if anyone knows how drop me a line. I have some real eye openers for you.

As for the article being naive how so? I know much of the how’s and why of corporations and everything is public. They even talk about what is happening and where it is going on the news. You just need to pay attention to what they are saying. Both the corporation and the Republic sound the same verbally, and I don't believe that was done by accident. I'll be posting more stuff for you. This is nether rhetoric or BS. Everything is verifiable fact with much of my information footnoted and annotated. You will have to fight a bit of the brainwashing you have had your entire life though as I did. And after 14 years of military service and some time as a LEO I had more than most. But if I can find the truth most anyone ells can. Feel free to look up the facts on your own. You will find what I post in the law books and as part of official governmental and corporate record. If you have some misconception that I'm leading you down the wrong path them please do your best to find incorrect facts. There will be few if any as I have followed up on most everything myself and found it written in stone. Up for the parley?
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:42:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)


The last time you posted here about a meeting of sovereigns, you said you'd give us a good explanation of what exactly that is. Is this your attempt to do so?
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 7:50:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
Yes I do. In 1871 THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Inc. was created and entered into the federal registry. You can find it there in the library of congress. That is a verifiable fact. Not too up on your history are you? I won’t hold it against you as any school that takes a penny of federal funding has to teach mandated courses that don’t give you what you need to know about our history, government and courts. Much easier to keep people as slaves when they merely think they are free. Care to try another approach?

You should back up everything you say, instead of telling other people to go do research when they challenge your view.
YOU post the link to the LoC where 'The United States of America, Inc" is shown to be registered in the Federal Registry, and while you are at it, tell us what the Federal Registry is.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:06:26 AM EDT
hehe i knew this was gonna start an interesting discussion.

mike
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:14:06 AM EDT

instigated by the Jewish factions of Europe...


I quit reading when I got to that part.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:30:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

instigated by the Jewish factions of Europe...


I quit reading when I got to that part.


Well, it's a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentaveret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet triannually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face - "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken!"
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:33:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

instigated by the Jewish factions of Europe...


I quit reading when I got to that part.


Well, it's a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentaveret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet triannually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face - "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken!"





Link Posted: 10/27/2003 9:33:26 AM EDT
I think Bladerunner2347 is talking about this? www.amguard.net/GunControlAct.htm

I found this when I was looking for information on the 1968 Gun Control Act.

I don't speak legalise too well so about halfway through I quit only to go back later and read the whole thing. Interesting, but I cannot verify that it is truthful in anyway.

I know nothing about the author but I assure you it has nothing to do with scheming Jews, aliens, the Christian right, or DU. Maybe just oversight on the part of our elected officials.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 3:00:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)


The last time you posted here about a meeting of sovereigns, you said you'd give us a good explanation of what exactly that is. Is this your attempt to do so?



No, I can't say it is. I still have to take the time to copy a definition of it from black’s law for you.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 3:04:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
hehe i knew this was gonna start an interesting discussion.

mike



I did also. And I have a few other essays here that can cause a heated debate. I love it when people start to think for themselves to learn and solve problems instead of waiting for everyone else to tell them the answer.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 5:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:

Originally Posted By Avtomat:
I've read the post; I have no idea what it is saying. And even though I am an attorney, I can't understand the legal mumbo-jumbo.



If you are an attorney, then you know EXSACTLY what it says. Just as you know that only members of the corporation are bound by the corporate laws we know as statues.

I'm already lost. what do you mean by "members of the corporation"? Corporations do not have "members," they have shareholders and employees. And yes, corporations are regulated by the laws that regulate corporations, and there is a different set for every state. And yes, generally, these laws regulate just corporations (because they are supposed to).



That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN.

What does this have to do with laws regulating corporations?


That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)

WTF are you talking about? you can be brought before a court exercising admiralty jurisdiction if you wreck your boat or get hurt working at sea; the constitution preserved admiralty jurisdiction to the federal courts. I'm not sure what you mean by statutory courts, or extracting money from slaves.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 5:59:22 PM EDT



That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN.

What does this have to do with laws regulating corporations?




That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)

WTF are you talking about? you can be brought before a court exercising admiralty jurisdiction if you wreck your boat or get hurt working at sea; the constitution preserved admiralty jurisdiction to the federal courts. I'm not sure what you mean by statutory courts, or extracting money from slaves.


Unless you are a Sovereign American CITEZEN you are presumed to be a member of the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. As such you are brought to an Admiralty court for breaching your agreement with them. FYI, any court with a gold fringed flag is in an Admiralty jurisdiction. You may also want to refer to rule 12-3 in the federal rules of civil procedure (as an attorney you know the law and have it handy...Right?) As to why the difference in citizenship is so important. Then you will understand why a Sovereign will not be subject to the same courts and laws as the US citizens.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 6:02:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

instigated by the Jewish factions of Europe...


I quit reading when I got to that part.


Well, it's a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentaveret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet triannually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face - "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken!"




Yea, I agree. You should see all the files on him...;)
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 4:34:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
I think Bladerunner2347 is talking about this? www.amguard.net/GunControlAct.htm

I found this when I was looking for information on the 1968 Gun Control Act.

I don't speak legalise too well so about halfway through I quit only to go back later and read the whole thing. Interesting, but I cannot verify that it is truthful in anyway.

I know nothing about the author but I assure you it has nothing to do with scheming Jews, aliens, the Christian right, or DU. Maybe just oversight on the part of our elected officials.



Thanks for that link. Didn’t have that one. It will make for interesting discussions at another time.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 7:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2003 7:05:49 PM EDT by Avtomat]

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
Unless you are a Sovereign American CITEZEN you are presumed to be a member of the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

why? corporations do not have members; there is no such thing as a "member" of a corporation: they have either shareholders or employees. and what is the "corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"? where are the articles of incorporation filed, and under which jurisdiction or government's laws were they filed? was there an incorporation fee? who are the shareholders? to whom was stock issued? was it common stock or preferred stock? what are the voting rights under the stock? is there a board of directors? where do they meet?

why am I presumed to a "member" of the corporation of the united states? where does it say this?



As such you are brought to an Admiralty court for breaching your agreement with them.

well, I've never been brought into court, though I have worked for them. when someone is charged with murder in Mobile, Alabama, and are brought before the Mobile Circuit Court, how is it an admiralty court?



FYI, any court with a gold fringed flag is in an Admiralty jurisdiction.

does the gold fringe flag mean that the court is an admiralty court, or does the flag MAKE it an admiralty court? when a court administrator orders a flag from a flag company, does he specifically order a gold fringe flag because it is an admiralty court, or do fancy flags simply, by virtue of their fanciness, have a gold fringe on them? The Mobile Circuit Court has a gold fringe on its flag. how is it an admiralty court? (certainly it uses admiralty law and statutes when it hears a Jones Act case)


You may also want to refer to rule 12-3 in the federal rules of civil procedure (as an attorney you know the law and have it handy...Right?)
of course I do, you would know that; that's a funny question (I guess you are either being sarcastic [for some unknown reason], or you did not believe me). Let's see. there is no Rule 12-3, Fed. R. Civ. P. Maybe you mean rules 12 throught 13, dealing with objections and counter claims? I don't get your point. please explain further. maybe I'm looking at the wrong rules:

www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/



As to why the difference in citizenship is so important. Then you will understand why a Sovereign will not be subject to the same courts and laws as the US citizens.

sorry, you'll have to actually explain it, or at least produce the rule for us to see.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 8:59:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat:

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
Unless you are a Sovereign American CITEZEN you are presumed to be a member of the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

why? corporations do not have members; there is no such thing as a "member" of a corporation: they have either shareholders or employees. and what is the "corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"? where are the articles of incorporation filed, and under which jurisdiction or government's laws were they filed? was there an incorporation fee? who are the shareholders? to whom was stock issued? was it common stock or preferred stock? what are the voting rights under the stock? is there a board of directors? where do they meet?

why am I presumed to a "member" of the corporation of the united states? where does it say this?



As such you are brought to an Admiralty court for breaching your agreement with them.

well, I've never been brought into court, though I have worked for them. when someone is charged with murder in Mobile, Alabama, and are brought before the Mobile Circuit Court, how is it an admiralty court?



FYI, any court with a gold fringed flag is in an Admiralty jurisdiction.

does the gold fringe flag mean that the court is an admiralty court, or does the flag MAKE it an admiralty court? when a court administrator orders a flag from a flag company, does he specifically order a gold fringe flag because it is an admiralty court, or do fancy flags simply, by virtue of their fanciness, have a gold fringe on them? The Mobile Circuit Court has a gold fringe on its flag. how is it an admiralty court? (certainly it uses admiralty law and statutes when it hears a Jones Act case)


You may also want to refer to rule 12-3 in the federal rules of civil procedure (as an attorney you know the law and have it handy...Right?)
of course I do, you would know that; that's a funny question (I guess you are either being sarcastic [for some unknown reason], or you did not believe me). Let's see. there is no Rule 12-3, Fed. R. Civ. P. Maybe you mean rules 12 throught 13, dealing with objections and counter claims? I don't get your point. please explain further. maybe I'm looking at the wrong rules:

www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/



As to why the difference in citizenship is so important. Then you will understand why a Sovereign will not be subject to the same courts and laws as the US citizens.

sorry, you'll have to actually explain it, or at least produce the rule for us to see.



Can't tell you how happy I am to see someone up for a decent parley. So let’s see what I can do for you here hey...:)


To your first? Without getting off track and into corporate novelties, the courts can presume anything if it is not contested. As the corporation and it’s subsidiaries brings you into a admiralty court claiming you violated some kind of contract you must contest it or the court holds it as an assumed fact. Here is a quote from the FRCP.

(1) A defense of lack of jurisdiction over the person, improper venue, insufficiency of process, or insufficiency of service of process is waived (A) if omitted from a motion in the circumstances described in subdivision (g), or (B) if it is neither made by motion under this rule nor included in a responsive pleading or an amendment thereof permitted by Rule 15(a) to be made as a matter of course.

Going down a bit, they must answer that question first before anything eles is done on a case.

(3) Whenever it appears by suggestion of the parties or otherwise that the court lacks jurisdiction of the subject matter, the court shall dismiss the action.


Where grounds for motion to dismiss included lack of personal jurisdiction, improper venue, and failure of complaint to state claim upon which relief could be granted, court should have passed on jurisdiction and venue issues, in that order, before considering whether claim was stated. Arrowsmith v. United Press Intern., C.A.2 (Vt.) 1963, 320 F.2d 219.


As to when it was incorporated that was 1871. This can be found in the federal Registry. But here are some more misc. facts and cases pertaining to the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

The FCC, FBI, CIA, NASA, and all the other alphabet gangs are not now, nor were they ever part of the united States government. US V. Strang 254 US 491, Lewis v. US 680 F. 2d 1239

You can not use the Constitution to defend yourself because you are not party to it. Padelford Fay & Co. v. The mayor and Alderman of the city of Savanna 14 Georgia 438, 520.

You are human capital. Executive order # 13073

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation.

“The United States are not one of the class of corporations intended by law to be exempt…” United States v. Perkins, 163 U.S. 625, 631 (1896).

“The United States is to be regarded as a body politic and corporate.” In re Merriam’s Estate, 36 N.E. 505 (1894).


There is more than one type of citizen.

"But a person may be a citizen of a particular state
and not a citizen of the United States. To hold
otherwise would be to deny to the state the highest
exercise of its sovereignty -- the right to declare who
are its citizens."

[State v. Fowler, 41 La. Ann. 380, 6 S. 602 (1889)]


As to where the corporate members meet congress has dual authority to legislate for the corporation and the Republic. Who it applies to can be found in the acts themselves. For it to apply to a Sovereign it must be public law, not a Statue or the USC which are private. law.

As to the Admiralty flag issue check this information.

Government officials and judges adamantly refuse requests to remove the gold fringed flag and replace it with the constitutional flag of the United States as defined in 4 U.S.C. Section 1,2, and 3 - which has NO fringe.

To keep it short here is the link. But you will find it in public law what flags can fly where and when. If a constitutional court flew an admiralty flag the judge would be committing a federal felony under public law. What do you really believe is more plausible? That most every court has decided they want a fancy looking flag and don’t mind committing a criminal act? Or that they are following the law to a tee?

http://www.frii.com/~gosplow/admir.html

Are our copies of the federal rules of civil procedure different? Yes. I am using the annotated version broken down into word files. Not anything off of the net. Easier to follow and make arguments this way. And not being an attorney myself I like to keep things as easy as possible.

I’m hoping you can see why rule 12 is so important now when asking the difference in State and FEDERAL citizenship. If you are not a federal citizen and you challenge there jurisdiction they have to toss the case unless you volunteers into it, or happen to be on properly ceded land to the corporation.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 9:30:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2003 9:44:53 AM EDT by W-W]

Originally Posted By sfcret:
why don't you just use a hyperlink to the "article" from that nutjob tinfoil hat site you got it from....instead of copying it and using up a lot of bandwidth.

here is a hyperlink you definitely need....

zapatopi.net/afdb.html#1



Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:13:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)


The last time you posted here about a meeting of sovereigns, you said you'd give us a good explanation of what exactly that is. Is this your attempt to do so?



I agree it is hard to grasp. That is why I show so much patients with those that don't comprehend it. After a lifetime of being spoon fed garbage you can't expect people to know what steak is.

But I'm sure you can see the dilemma. Condense it and the sheeple say there is not enough information and fact so it is BS. Try to give good amounts of details, cites and quotes and the sheeple get lost in the facts so it is BS.

Since I am so fond of parables I will say this;

There was once a hungry hyena and an ostrich in the plains of Africa. The ostrich grazed peacefully enjoying nature’s bounty while the hyena slowly stalked the ostrich. When the ostrich saw the hyena is stuck its head in nice hole in the ground so it wouldn’t have to look at the hungry hyena, not seeing the hyena the ostrich felt it was now safe again. Guess what happened to the ostrich...

They hyena is the corporate US. I'll let you figure out who the ostrich is.

This is a good link for research.


http://www.americansovereign.com/
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:13:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)


The last time you posted here about a meeting of sovereigns, you said you'd give us a good explanation of what exactly that is. Is this your attempt to do so?



I agree it is hard to grasp. That is why I show so much patients with those that don't comprehend it. After a lifetime of being spoon fed garbage you can't expect people to know what steak is.

But I'm sure you can see the dilemma. Condense it and the sheeple say there is not enough information and fact so it is BS. Try to give good amounts of details, cites and quotes and the sheeple get lost in the facts so it is BS.

Since I am so fond of parables I will say this;

There was once a hungry hyena and an ostrich in the plains of Africa. The ostrich grazed peacefully enjoying nature’s bounty while the hyena slowly stalked the ostrich. When the ostrich saw the hyena is stuck its head in nice hole in the ground so it wouldn’t have to look at the hungry hyena, not seeing the hyena the ostrich felt it was now safe again. Guess what happened to the ostrich...

They hyena is the corporate US. I'll let you figure out who the ostrich is.

This is a good link for research.


http://www.americansovereign.com/
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:14:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Bladerunner2347:
That is the difference between a subject US citizen and a Sovereign American CITEZEN. That’s why someone like myself can't lawfully be brought into an Admiralty court. (You know, the statutory courts that are everywhere and used for the extraction of money from corporate slaves.)


The last time you posted here about a meeting of sovereigns, you said you'd give us a good explanation of what exactly that is. Is this your attempt to do so?



I agree it is hard to grasp. That is why I show so much patients with those that don't comprehend it. After a lifetime of being spoon fed garbage you can't expect people to know what steak is.

But I'm sure you can see the dilemma. Condense it and the sheeple say there is not enough information and fact so it is BS. Try to give good amounts of details, cites and quotes and the sheeple get lost in the facts so it is BS.

Since I am so fond of parables I will say this;

There was once a hungry hyena and an ostrich in the plains of Africa. The ostrich grazed peacefully enjoying nature’s bounty while the hyena slowly stalked the ostrich. When the ostrich saw the hyena is stuck its head in nice hole in the ground so it wouldn’t have to look at the hungry hyena, not seeing the hyena the ostrich felt it was now safe again. Guess what happened to the ostrich...

They hyena is the corporate US. I'll let you figure out who the ostrich is.

This is a good link for research.


http://www.americansovereign.com/
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:12:31 PM EDT
Can we start a new acronym for threads like this:

SPTB

Someone Pass The Bong!!
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