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Posted: 5/8/2001 2:39:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 2:40:25 PM EDT by Q-Man]
Maybe I'm just blind or something, but why do I never see any posts about this rifle (the Professional Ordnance Inc [url]http://www.proord.com/[/url] Carbon 15)??? It seems to be an AR15 variant with carbon fiber receivers and furniture. I don't think the bolt carrier is compatible with other AR15s. I've held them at gun shows and have always been impressed with their weight, or lack there of. What is the bolt carrier made of?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:11:01 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:19:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 3:18:28 PM EDT by Juggernaut]
Do a search for them, Prof. Ord. and Carbon 15's. You'll see, from the horror stories told, why these guns aren't a favorite of those well versed with firearms-or even an option. They have design and QA problems out the wazoo. Shame they didn't do it right, and cut the profrietary design out, and start ensuring that the guns are actually working when they leave the factory. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:24:44 PM EDT
Here's a recent thread that I started on the topic: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=20471#lastPost There are at least two others with more detailed replies.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 3:29:29 PM EDT
There was a pretty glowing review of the Carbon 15 in the latest issue of Guns & Ammo. I'm not sure why the rifle got the reviews it did given the difficulty many of the members of this board seem to have had with it. The writer was recommending that the rifle would be perfect for all SWAT entry teams. If that rifle is as reliable as many have said here, then I would rather have a garden hoe to enter a house.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 5:10:49 PM EDT
DrJ,the sad but true fact about Guns and Ammo is that this magazine(like many others) derives a great portion of its' profits in advertising dollars.This is a conflict of interest of the worst kind,where they are reviewing a product for a manufacturer who pays them big dollars to advertise in their magazine.You will rarely get an unbiased opinion on any gun review in G&A,add the fact that G&A is not going out and testing a production model gun,they are useing a rifle or pistol that Carbon or whomever sends in for testing.These test rifles are gone over and over by the man. to insure when a company like G&A gets it,it will perform flawlessly.If you want a NO BS review on any firearm the only place is Gun test newsletter.They use the same guns that you or I would buy at a dealer as a practice they will not review a "Test" gun that a manufacturer sends them,they actually go out and buy the production model,they accept NO ADVERTISING and make the money only on subscription fees alone.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 5:29:17 PM EDT
I agree with Josey All the way. "Gun test" is a great paper. its a little pricy but it is very info packed. I was surprised one month I read it and they compared a Beretta and a Tuarus 9mm pistol. I am not exactly sure on the models I believe it was the Beretta 92 and the Tuarus PT something. And it turned out the Tuarus out performed the Beretta. There were a few draw backs in both but the rules the Tuarus the winner. Six
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:02:47 PM EDT
I have a 97 and love it.As a matter of fact its the first AR type rifle besides the AR10 I've owned.I have over a thousand rounds without a problem.On 1041 it broke an extractor.They had a knew one in my hands in under 4 days including a Sunday.I told them this by email.I have also emailed a couple times and thet answered both in under 24hrs.My rifle is in the 1600#sreial range so it is pretty early rifle.I know they had problems with bolts breaking.They are replacing these with slightly larger diameter bolts.The pistols had some feeding problems from what ive heard,but so have a lot of ar tyope pistols.The lower end parts are standard AR-15,exceppt the reciever its self.The radius between the upper and lower is diffrent or the take down and pivot pin are diffrent size.Maybe a Colt large pin would interchange but I don't think so.The upper has a propietary carrier maybe the bolt is diffrent but I havent compared it to a standard one.Some one on this board changed his to a telescoping stock with a diffrent carrier I think.The buffer is a small diameter spring that rides on a guide inside a carbon tube that screws to the back of the lower.The stock slips over this and locks.I dont know about the gas tube ect.Mine works and Im not taking it apart.I think on the rifles thet had problems they will fix.If you want something diffrent this is it .Thet seem to want to make this a success.If you want something perfect you better wait a little.All I know is my rifle loaded with sling and red dot weighs under 5lbs.If I got a bad one and bad cutomer service you can bet id be bitchin instead of preachin.By the way the broken extractor happened on the first round of Wolf.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:10:30 PM EDT
Wadman I live around the Olin area.Alton.If you would like to try my 97 email me
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:25:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARMALITE FAN: I have a 97 and love it.As a matter of fact its the first AR type rifle besides the AR10 I've owned.I have over a thousand rounds without a problem.On 1041 it broke an extractor.They had a knew one in my hands in under 4 days including a Sunday.I told them this by email.I have also emailed a couple times and thet answered both in under 24hrs.My rifle is in the 1600#sreial range so it is pretty early rifle.I know they had problems with bolts breaking.They are replacing these with slightly larger diameter bolts.The pistols had some feeding problems from what ive heard,but so have a lot of ar tyope pistols.The lower end parts are standard AR-15,exceppt the reciever its self.The radius between the upper and lower is diffrent or the take down and pivot pin are diffrent size.Maybe a Colt large pin would interchange but I don't think so.The upper has a propietary carrier maybe the bolt is diffrent but I havent compared it to a standard one.Some one on this board changed his to a telescoping stock with a diffrent carrier I think.The buffer is a small diameter spring that rides on a guide inside a carbon tube that screws to the back of the lower.The stock slips over this and locks.I dont know about the gas tube ect.Mine works and Im not taking it apart.I think on the rifles thet had problems they will fix.If you want something diffrent this is it .Thet seem to want to make this a success.If you want something perfect you better wait a little.All I know is my rifle loaded with sling and red dot weighs under 5lbs.If I got a bad one and bad cutomer service you can bet id be bitchin instead of preachin.By the way the broken extractor happened on the first round of Wolf.
View Quote
Sounds like you got some pretty good service from Prof. Ordnance ... How long ago was this ??? I sent an E-mail to them 2-weeks ago asking for help/advice on my type 21 rifle...It hasn't worked right since the day I bought it... Haven't heard from them yet... Too late now though... I just traded it on an Olympic AR & a MAK-90 AK (THESE guns actually SHOOT) The Carbon-15 was my most expensive gun I owned... And, the least reliable
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:04:20 AM EDT
good guns..Over 1000rnds with no problem.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:00:56 PM EDT
dragracer this was about a month ago.did you have extraction problems.I think some of these rifles have tight chambers.That would explain breaking the extractor on wolf.Most of the problems seemed to be either the bolt breaking.Which they have fixed or extraction.When they emailed me back they said they had match chambers.I dont see the need on this type of rifle.The are also making the extractor slightly larger with the new bolt.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:19:36 PM EDT
Funny....... I just got a reply from them today. All they said was to send them the complete bolt/carrier assy and upper receiver with my warranty registration card. I think my gun already had the newer style larger extractor. I compared it to one of my other AR's, and it was substantially larger. The main problem with my gun was stovepipes...almost every other round. I replaced the ejector spring with another that was 1/8 inch longer and bit stiffer.(from a gun that worked). Didn't get to try it though...Once a gun proves itself unreliable to me, it gets traded or sold. I no longer trust the gun. My cleaning and maintenance on my guns is 2nd to none. So, when reliability falters, I know it has nothing to do with dirt.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:23:06 PM EDT
I never tried cheap ammo in it either...Always used the S. African 55gr fmj brass cased stuff.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:38:39 PM EDT
When they start asking for complete bolt and carriers they must have something really out of wack on some rifles.Im glad mine works.I dont think I would buy one now without a chance to shoot it.I'm going to shoot another case of PMC or similar.Then im going to try the wolf agian and see if it breaks the extractor .Ive kept mine pretty clean.You can feel it getting sluggish locking up after 175+ rounds.
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:30:37 AM EDT
I knew there was a reason why I didn't care for these very much. It's just hard to beat a metal receiver
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 10:40:27 AM EDT
The receiver is not the problem.They were having problems with a few of there bolts. They have since redesigned the bolt slightly,and are replacing bad ones.
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