All I know is when I go to the northeastern states people are rude and its filled with vast amounts of socialism and liberalism. And lots of gun control.

When I go to southern states like Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, etc the people are incredibly polite and the gun laws are awesome

I really want to move to one of those states. Here in Florida its like a tropical New York Not the true south.

Southerners are the most overtly patriotic Americans you will find. We (to be fair, I can't speak for all) don't hate southerners. When they go sideways about the civil war, I can't help but make fun of them. Their ancestors fought, lost, swore allegiance to the U.S.A. and went on with their lives, contributing great things to the country. How is it their progenitors are made up of so many nitwits?

Well, consider that the vast majority of the battles were fought on Southern soil, Southern industralism was wrecked by the war and didn't recover until WW2, and the South is where most of the black population lived and still lives with the incumbent problems associated with that demographic, and you have a pretty good explanation why the South is a shithole.

A separation without a war would have resulted in a different dynamic.  I think the likely outcome would have still been Brazil
for the South.  An interesting question would be what would the North look like without the black migration north.

I've been to PA a few times.  People in glass houses and all that.

The Southern idea of freedom includes things like not having to go to school.

There are people on this site that don't believe in public education at any level.

And they wonder why they were poor for hundreds of years.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you are not a farmer.  Midwestern soil and climate is how this area became a giant food source.  

It does not matter that the south has more welfare. Based on the premise of the question the north would have had less had the south held onto slavery.

The slaves would have been freed within 20 years, only without the economic collapse and destruction of the south by the north.

They weren't freed for another 70 years.

In fact, peonage in the South was the reason that DoJ created the Civil Rights Section.

Mechanization didn't revolutionize the cotton trade until the 1950s.

That's weird. Worse shitholes than Center City, Philly, Harrisburg, Pittsburg? Man, that would be some shitholeness, for darn sure.

Germany would have a moon base

Couple quick questions:

Who did the confederates beat 28MAR1862 in Arizona to retain it in the confederacy?

When was Nevada admitted to the Union?

What successful campaigns were waged against Mexico 1861-1865?

I didn't think Pittsburgh was that bad when I visited.

What part of Oklahoma are you from? I lived there, but not in the nice part.

This guy gets it...

The world would look very different without a "United" United states to save it from itself.

A "what if" essay about this question was written by Winston Churchill in the 1950's.  Some of his key predictions were an arms race between the North and South like the world had never known, as well as the South taking over Mexico.  He also predicted an eventual peace between the two sides that would have influenced Europe and prevented WWI.

Link?  Sounds like something I'd like to read.  Yes, I'm too lazy to Google.

I had the publication date wrong; Churchill wrote it in 1930 for Scribner's.  Here is the link:

If Lee Had Not Won the Battle of Gettysburg

LOLOLOLOL

If this isn't the fuckin truth, then I don't know what is.  

It will.

Too late.  It has.

I suspect the Confederacy would somehow be more poor, obese, and short-lived than the South is now-

and somehow also more prideful.

It wouldn't surprise me terribly if the Former US fought on different sides of WWI and without Wilson perhaps no WWII.

The fact is that slavery as an institution was dead in the West within a decade or two at most of when the Civil War occurred.

So, let's say that the South had peacefully seceded in 1861.

I predict that every major European power would have stopped trading with the CSA within a decade or so due to public pressure against slavery.  Once that occurred, essentially the entire raison d'etre for the CSA would have evaporated.  The South would be forced to end slavery as an institution or face complete economic collapse.

Furthermore, both the North and the South would have found themselves disadvantaged economically due to the split.  Northern textile manufacturing would be at a disadvantage due to increased costs to access Southern cotton, and the South would be at a disadvantage due to increased costs to access finished manufactured goods.

With slavery dead and the CSA's reason for being eliminated and a number of disadvantages to both countries becoming ever more obvious and a realization in the North and the South that both countries were weaker on the world stage, the pressure to reintegrate the would have been enormous and ultimately irresistible.

In the end, the CSA would have ultimately rejoined the Union within a decade or two at most.

Some things would have definitely been different.  Over 600,000 Americans would not have died.  Untold millions of property damage would not have occurred, leaving both sides more wealthy.  There would have been no Reconstruction Era.

The only question in my mind is how the Civil Rights era of the mid 20th century would have gone.  It is certain that racial discrimination would have been rampant in the South in this alternate reality (it was rampant in the North as well, although less obvious due to the demographic differences). However, in a world where the South had successfully left the Union for a time once already, would Northern liberals have been in as powerful of a position to force change in the South as was the case in the history we know?  Probably not.  I think the Civil Rights era would have occurred ultimately, though probably delayed by a decade or two, possibly occurring in the 1980s rather than the 1960s.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. After the U.S. Army broke their back, the Confederate army totally had the morale and resources to kick Mexico's ass. Commie.

Hahaha, of course not. The south is, as shown, a deep shit hole. No one said cities aren't shit holes either, but by and large, the south is America's shit hole. Or arm pit. Or whatever you want to call it.

LOL no kidding.   Like a bunch of Col Sanders types sitting around a table drinking a mint julip "remember when....."

I'll put Huntsville, AL up against where ever you live in PA any day.

Harry turtledove had that covered too. US and germany, vs CSA, england, france.

The difference being no forces being sent overseas from any of the countries. Plenty of fighting on their own continents.

ETA: Wilson was president of CSA

Sadly, he's probably correct.

Lets call it the Us route 50 divide, or is that a little to much north for you southerners ?