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Posted: 5/7/2001 2:22:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 2:22:46 PM EDT by Kevin]
It's been awhile since building my last pc and I'm wanting to do it again will some of you pc gurus help me choose a motherboard/chip combo? [b]To begin with price is very much a factor![/b] I already know about pricewatch.com so I'll be using them. My question is what m-board do you guys prefer? I'm heavily leaning towards an Amptron m-board (Vega 6931/6941 or P6VAP-A+) with a 633mhz Celeron as the price is right for my budget. I've used Amptron m-boards twice in the past and was happy with the setup. Has setup gotten easier or harder over the past two years? I already have a copy of Win. 98 and I'm not wanting to fork over any money for a different OS.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 2:31:01 PM EDT
A few points... 1) If your copy of 98 is not Win98SE, then GET ONE! You will thank me for it later... 2) Most boards now employ some sort of "soft-jumper" setup scheme, and auto-detect is getting popular. 3) If you are going to use Intel chips, use an Intel chipset. Compatibility can be very much an issue, when you least expect it. ASUS boards use Intel sets for Intel silicon, and are rock solid (I have something like 6 Intel/ASUS machines running ALL THE TIME at hose for various uses.) If you cannot find ASUS, look for TYAN - I used their Dual CPU boards for my servers here. 4) Make sure you leave an upgrade path. If you want to save momney on the CPU, fine. You will save even more money later if you buy hte hottent mobo you can find. WHen it comes time to upgrade, would you rather plug in a new CPU and change some settings, or tear everything to bits and rebuild half the machine? 5) Fans. Airflow should go from lower front (intake) to upper rear (exhaust). If necessary, reverse the power supply fan to make it an exhaust fan. Add a fan in the lower front (intake) and add one in the upper rear if a space for it is available. Heat is the enemy, and to-day's chips run hotter than ever! If you have nay specific questions, feel free to email me. FreeFireZone dragonland@juno.com
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 2:33:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 2:34:10 PM EDT by ILove2Shoot]
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:02:29 PM EDT
ASUS - rock-solid & worth it. You can probably still check their web site for processor compatibility. [red][size=4]P.R.K.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:05:22 PM EDT
Always used ABIT boards myself (good for AMD), for an Intel box I would get ASUS.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:09:53 PM EDT
stay away from intel, i find their behind the 8 ball as of late. also the pentium 4 is horseshit
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:26:14 PM EDT
Well, I've been putting together PC's for friends and family at OEM prices for years. Not to mention that computers are my major, so I know a bit about the subject [;D] -Tell us what your total budget is for both the motherboard and the chip. -For very little added cost, you can upgrade to P3 over Celeron. A Pentium III 700Mhz will run you under $100. -[url]www.pricewatch.com[/url] ...the absolute best prices on any computer part, has no equal. The ABIT/ASUS and P3 combo works very well, but tell us your budget first and the numbers will come later. For a round about figure though, a good, quality board and 700 chip will cost you a mere $200 (if done correctly). Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:30:20 PM EDT
any particualr reason for the celeron? I really don't know what hot these days as far as screaming machines, I work IT but only on corporate model lines of pcs which very much intel and very stripped down consumer models. And my home pcs are for surfing the internet and running light-traffic web, proxy and ftp servers one's for playing music only it's in the stereo cabinet, so I just got surplus ones from work since I have no need for real power for any of that, I don't do any gaming or autocadding or video production. But I can tell you that the celeron sux crap for the money, if you have to have intel save for a p3 or p4, whatever the hell a p4 is, sh!t I don't even know what the diff is between a p2 and p3 and I have both, but the celeron ah yes, it has no cache on the processor, absolutely zero. this little tiny 32k of ram thats not built on to the processor will slow you down almost to half that (maybe a lil exag. but A LOT)of a 633 p2. My buddy who's seriously into gaming and all the other processor intensive stuff I don't do uses only the AMD chips, and those supposedly are quite a bit faster and more powerful than a intel p3 of the same speed and can be had for about the same price or less as the celeron, I can ask him for some links about building up amd boxes if you're interested in looking, I'll do anyting to keep you away from that celeron.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 7:45:20 PM EDT
I worked for Intel for several years and have a degree in computers so I might be qualified to give you advice. If you want to save money do this. The best board currently are Asus and Abit, but for the price,feature, and performance, the MSI K7T Pro 2A is hard to beat. I liked it over both the Asus and Abit and currently have it in my system that I built with a AMD 650Mhz Duron overclocked to 900Mhz. Total price for CPU and motherboard was $190. I would go with AMD because for the price/performace it is better than Intel's. Until Intel cuts their price further, I will stick with AMD. Trust me Intel isn't all that great. Who is Amptron? If you really want to save money and make Bill Gates a couple dollars poorer, burn a copy of Win ME or Win 2000. My friend is ripping a copy of both for me tonight since I ran out of HD space and I need to buy a 40G HD. Isn't he nice? Sorry Mr. Gates. No money for you.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:05:02 PM EDT
This might help: [url]http://www.buildingpcs.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:13:56 PM EDT
....or this: [url]http://www.sysopt.com/userreviews/index.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:19:51 PM EDT
....and, of course, THIS: [url]http://www.thetechnozone.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:29:34 PM EDT
Oops, forgot one: [url]http://pcmech.pair.com/[/url] Good luck!
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:41:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 8:41:07 PM EDT by Juggernaut]
you said ASUS. That reminds me... Computer show, just me and dad, shopping for PC's... Russian computer seller- "You vant an ASUS muzzahboard, and an Enlite gase. Used to be, people use DFI muzzahboard. They build up nice PC, but not use DFI anymore. You know why they stop with the DFI muzzahboard?" My dad, xanadu(who has no IDEA what he's saying)-"Umm, yeah, because they're a piece of crap." Russian computer seller(urgently, desparately)- [size=5]NO![/size=5] "They stop using DFI, becaue, DFI has such good components that you put cheap RAM mammory in, it fails. People try two, three times, and muzzahboard failing, because of bad mammory. ASUS like that, good muzzahboard, anyne can sell you one at a cheap price, but you must use good components,(leaning even closer)components, they make the difference. Plus you get Enlite case, like Dell use, I use only the very best......" and so on and so on. You hadda been there, but the "NO!" part was a riot. Jumped up in my dads's face. If you go to one, and he's yelling for the guy in the back, "SERGEI! Ser-geyh!", that's the ASUS muzzahboard man. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:44:51 PM EDT
The mammory in my motherboard is good.........
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:49:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WhoMe?: The mammory in my motherboard is good.........
View Quote
ah, but do you have an ASUS muzzahboard, to put your PC mammory(really, that's how he pronounced it)in? You must be using quality components, or your whole PC fail on you. You using En'rgy Star monitor? Save money that way... Juggernaut
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:57:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Juggernaut: .....You using En'rgy Star monitor? Save money that way... Juggernaut
View Quote
Yes........saved me 5.2 cents last year! Wooooohooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 1:09:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2001 1:14:24 PM EDT by Kevin]
OK guys, how does an ABIT VH6 m-board sound but I still go with a Celeron 633 and get a P3 chip 6-10 months later when they're a cheaper? My budget is $170 delivered on the m-board, chip & fan. I already have enough RAM (196) to transfer into it. I'll use very little HD space in the beginning and so I'm considering using a spare 2.1GB Seagate drive I have to get it running.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 5:22:19 PM EDT
Now the next question.... The next wave of "trying".... Do you want a Silent PC? Are you tired of hearing a turbine engine when you start up your PC? That it is newest quest of an up-and-comming home PC builders. And let me tell you... it isn't easy! One thing you want to look for is to minimize the number of fans used in your system. The other thing is to actually underclock your CPU to minimize your need for fans on your CPU heatsink. (sounds weird huh?) One place to start for those of you interested in this subject, try... [url]http://home.swipnet.se/tr/silence.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:26:49 PM EDT
I would recommend the Microstar K7T Pro2A mobo ($100-110) with an AMD Duron 750 or 800 MHz processor (<$50). That should come in under $170 and blow the Celeron 633 away. If you are looking for an upgrade path 6 months down the road, consider the Iwill KK266 motherboard ($120), which supports the 266 MHz front side bus, and get a 1+ GHz Athlon or Duron as the prices come down. Guzzler, underclocking??? With all due respect, why the hell would you *underclock* a processor? Why not just save money and buy a slower-speed processor in the first place if you are that concerned about noise? But if someone wants to waste money on purpose, who am I to try to stop them?
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:39:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:41:38 PM EDT
BostonTeaParty, I said is was weird!!!! The reason for underclocking is to let the chip run cooler. example (numbers may not match) a 800 mhz chip at 800 mhz runs around 54C a 800 mhz chip at 700 mhz runs around 40C a 700 mhz chip at 700 mhz runs around 54C This is what I have read on other computer discussion boards. I haven't tried it out myself, but it sounds interesting. Again the goal is not use any cooling fans to make a quiet system.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:42:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 6:56:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 7:08:53 PM EDT
(OT) Guzzler, the reason it doesn't make sense to me is that power dissipation in an integrated circuit is proportional to both clock frequency and power supply voltage. CMOS circuits dissipate very low power (micro-Amps) when the clock is not switching. Therefore, the more often the clock transitions, the more power is dissipated; it is a linear relationship. The same circuit running at 2x the clock speed will dissipate 2x the power. The only situation I can see where you get lower power dissipation such as you describe is if at the same time you moved up in clock speed, you moved to a different architecture CPU, i.e., a Pentium 4 being underclocked to 1 GHz might dissipate less power than a Pentium 3 running at its rated frequency of 1 GHz. But in the case of identical architecture CPU's, what you describe is against the laws of physics. The circuits on a 700 MHz Pentium 3 or identical to the circuits on a 800 MHz Pentium 3. They are the same CPU.
Link Posted: 5/8/2001 8:04:43 PM EDT
if price is a factor then go cheap. Get an ABIT BH6 or a BX6 (rev 2), both have 100 100MHz bus speeds, get a boxed Soundblaster Value live, boxed version of your favorite video card, boxed Intel PIII 700 (overclock that puppy to 933 no problems), and and Alpha heat sink and fan, 3 128 sticks of PC100 ram, and an 7200 rpm hard drive. You could probably build this for under $500 if you looked hard enough. I have a setup very similar to this, I use WinbloZ ME, it has been stable with no death crashes for over 8 months now. I keep waiting for the "next best thing" but why? This system does what I want it to do. If I do upgrade (STG58 / FAL or newer faster computer.....hmmmmmm) it will be a system based on an AMD chip unless Intel pulls it's head out of it's ass (I am an Intel stockholder) and quits spending money on the Blue Man Group commercials and instead put that cash into development of either the P4 or something better. Celery chips are ok, but you really can get a PIII for almost the same price.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:22:58 AM EDT
Ok, I do computers for a living. I have bought several motherboards and the clear winner is ASUS. It's very worth the few extra bucks. I just bought a ASUS A7V133 with an AMD Tbird 1.3 CPU. It cost me $540 with case and WD 40GB 7200RPM HDD. IT KICKS ASS! It's much faster than my P4 1.5 at work. I LOVE IT. Make sure you buy AMD CPU. They are faster, cheaper and they are the reason we aren't still paying $5000 for a computer. No reason not to support AMD. That's all I buy at work and home.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 8:32:44 AM EDT
I have few questions. I've always biult on Intel chips. I now plan on using a AMD Chip for both value and speed. Are their disadvantages to using them? What is the lastest and not so latest in these chips? What are the hottest MBs for AMD chips. What bus speed are these MBs running at? What type of RAM do they use? What chips support that high bus speeds? Will these boards support the older chips are they the same socket? Lastly what is the best bang for the buck in 3d video cards? IT should be DVD compatable. Thanks Scratch
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:41:43 AM EDT
Scratch, I know of no disadvantages of AMD. Most sheeple are afraid of them because they aren't the standard. AMD has been making chips a very long time. I have owned many systems based on their CPU. I trust them.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 11:59:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DeerSlayer: Scratch, I know of no disadvantages of AMD. Most sheeple are afraid of them because they aren't the standard. AMD has been making chips a very long time. I have owned many systems based on their CPU. I trust them.
View Quote
Their older 475mhz K6/3DNOW II chip certainly sucks! It is far from even a Celeron chip in my opinion, that is why I'm hesitant to go w/AMD now!
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:35:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 1:23:21 PM EDT
The K6 chip was a good CPU, and you couldn't beat the price, but architecturally the K6 core was inferior to the Pentium-II/III core. The new K7/Athlon core is at least the equal of and in some ways superior to the Pentium-III core. Proof of this is the fact that the Athlon core is in production at 1.33 GHz and is expected to go to at least 1.5 GHz. The Pentium III core topped out at 1.0 GHz, and Intel got egg on their face when they tried to push it to 1.13 GHz to compete with AMD and had to recall it when it didn't work. The Celeron is based on the P3 core and the Duron is based on the Athlon core. Besides the architecture and the price, the Duron is better than the Celeron because it runs with a 100 MHz system bus rather than the 66 MHz system bus to which the Celeron is limited. I have built six systems at work, one at home for myself, and one for my girlfriend, all based on AMD Athlon processors. I have been very happy with all of them stability-wise, and the performance kicks butt. AMD has come a long ways from their K6 days.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 3:39:57 PM EDT
Ok, what are the suggestions for an Athlon system? MB, Chip, Video, sound etc. The more empty slots the better. Right now I have none open and it sucks. Scratch
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 8:57:32 AM EDT
^^^^^^BTT^^^^^^
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