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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:49:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Heat pump will use more electricity.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:50:24 PM EDT
[#2]
I would say heat pump and shut the registers in the other parts of your house.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:51:56 PM EDT
[#3]
How big is the heat pump?
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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:53:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big is the heat pump? |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:57:23 PM EDT
[#5]
I have a heat pump also.
I keep all the vents closed in the rooms/floors I don't want to heat. Also put a blanket/towel on top of the registers and close the doors It also depends on where your thermostat is located. Is it in the area you want to keep warm? If not you may need to move it. Heat pump will use more electricity. Just to answer your question. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 10:59:25 PM EDT
[#6]
My experience is it is much cheaper to heat with 240 volt as apposed to 120 volt. Something to do with the way watts are measured.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:09:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My experience is it is much cheaper to heat with 240 volt as apposed to 120 volt. Something to do with the way watts are measured. You'll need to measure kWh for both. Easier on the space heater as a simple killawatt or similar will suffice. For the the heat pump you'll need to use something else, a clamp meter and some math could work to get close, or else a standalone meter. I'd guess the heat pump would be more efficient depending on temperature if they're heating the same area... If the area is one floor like you say without knowing how much heat leaks to the other floors it's tougher, but that puts the space heater back in the lead. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:13:21 PM EDT
[#8]
I have two heat pumps (zoned HVAC) and each has its own air handler. So the power draw from that would also have to be factored into your calculations.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:16:00 PM EDT
[#9]
The killer with heat pumps is when the temperature drops.
(If you know how heat pumps work, skip this paragraph), A heat pump is just your air conditioner working in reverse, so the "hot" coil is inside your house, and the "cold" coil is outside. Problem is, when it gets cold enough your heat pump can't absorb any more heat from the atmosphere. Basically, you need a differential between the air and the coils for things to work correctly - in extreme cold, the air gets colder than the outside unit. Think of it like this, if your AC coil on the inside cools to a temperature of 35° F and for whatever reason the temperature inside your house is 30° F, your AC wouldn't work because it's impossible for it to cool below the temperature of the coil. Now, reverse the concept and you'll see the point here. I'm sure some dickwagon with a PhD in residential heating thermodynamics will "actually" me here, but you get the idea. When your refrigeration based heating system no longer cuts it, you have resistive heat strips that provide most of your heat, and that's when the electric meter starts to really get going. The takeaway here is that if you can heat the house acceptably with the space heater when it's cold as fuck outside, that may be a better option because your heat pump is basically incinerating money. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:18:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a heat pump also. I keep all the vents closed in the rooms/floors I don't want to heat. Also put a blanket/towel on top of the registers and close the doors It also depends on where your thermostat is located. Is it in the area you want to keep warm? If not you may need to move it. Heat pump will use more electricity. Just to answer your question. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:40:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My experience is it is much cheaper to heat with 240 volt as apposed to 120 volt. Something to do with the way watts are measured. 240 volts X 6.25 amps = 1500 watts 120 volts X 12.5 amps = 1500 watts The advantage of 240 over 120 is that you can run smaller guage wire for the same wattage. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:42:18 PM EDT
[#12]
I have a ground water source heat pump and it uses less than 1000w at full draw...however, it has electric strips as back up and they drain a lot more if they kick on.
ETA: I also have solar power. My total electricity costs for the year is less than $1,000. I used to pay anywhere from $5,000 to $8,000 for propane and electricity. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:46:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Heat pump is my vote with a caveat. If it is above 32 f freezing and yours is just a normal model. You should cave up to 3:1 return on heat. Below freezing than a space heater would be about the same and you are just heating one room or floor.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:47:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Resistance heating is the most expensive heat you will ever use.
If you are going to use electricity to heat, a heat pump is far cheaper to use per BTU then resistance heating. [space heater] |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:51:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Heat Pumps are about 300% more efficient than electric heat.
A heat pump may not make hot air at colder outside temps but it's still more efficient to keep heat pump running. It's still heating but the air may feel cool because it's below your body temp. Having it providing 85 degree air is better than turning on the heat strips that will produce >100 degree air but using more electricity. If it's spending a majority of the time in defrost mode consider switching to electric heat. Until then let it run as a heat pump. Newer heat pumps are better than older ones. Don't block off grills. That can reduce the air flow across your coil reducing the capacity of your unit. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:55:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Need to reduce bills. Using one 1500w oil filled radiator seems to be able to heat a floor of my house to an acceptable lever, with the heat pump only kicking on occasionally. I know that heat pumps are more efficient, but I dont need to heat my whole house, only one floor - and if i can do that cheaper with one space heater than using my heat pump I will do that. |
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:56:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Is your house the size of a walk in closet ? A 1500 watt space heater is only about 5000-5200 BTU.
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Posted: 12/30/2017 11:58:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Have you considered a pellet stove? I heat my entire house with one, coldest it's been here is -11 and I haven't had any issues. Granted my house is fairly small and has an open floor plan but if your able to keep the space warm with a space heater you wouldn't have any issues heating with a stove. I'm expecting to use 3-4 tons this season which is only $6-800. Only downside is the upfront cost is a little high depending on the stove and install location
ETA other downside would be storing pellets if you don't have Somwhere to keep them |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:01:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Need to reduce bills. Using one 1500w oil filled radiator seems to be able to heat a floor of my house to an acceptable lever, with the heat pump only kicking on occasionally. I know that heat pumps are more efficient, but I dont need to heat my whole house, only one floor - and if i can do that cheaper with one space heater than using my heat pump I will do that. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:10:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heat Pumps are about 300% more efficient than electric heat. A heat pump may not make hot air at colder outside temps but it's still more efficient to keep heat pump running. It's still heating but the air may feel cool because it's below your body temp. Having it providing 85 degree air is better than turning on the heat strips that will produce >100 degree air but using more electricity. If it's spending a majority of the time in defrost mode consider switching to electric heat. Until then let it run as a heat pump. Newer heat pumps are better than older ones. Don't block off grills. That can reduce the air flow across your coil reducing the capacity of your unit. 
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:13:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Electric heat is 100% Efficient (fact).... It would be impossible for something to be 300% Efficient.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Heat Pumps are about 300% more efficient than electric heat. A heat pump may not make hot air at colder outside temps but it's still more efficient to keep heat pump running. It's still heating but the air may feel cool because it's below your body temp. Having it providing 85 degree air is better than turning on the heat strips that will produce >100 degree air but using more electricity. If it's spending a majority of the time in defrost mode consider switching to electric heat. Until then let it run as a heat pump. Newer heat pumps are better than older ones. Don't block off grills. That can reduce the air flow across your coil reducing the capacity of your unit. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:16:07 AM EDT
[#22]
Heat pump will use more absolute electricity (and cost.)
It's also more efficient because it "moves" heat from outside to inside, instead of being resistance heating. You will get more heat for your money with the pump, but may have to pay more to get that more heat. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:20:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It means it's 3X more efficient than electric. Electric is 100% because all energy is turned to heat. Heat pump is 3X more efficient. 
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:23:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if heat pumps are 3X more efficient than electric that would make heat pumps 300% efficient according to your math.. Which is impossible... |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:24:52 AM EDT
[#25]
You should be saying 3x more expensive to operate!
https://energy.gov/energysaver/home-heating-systems/electric-resistance-heating |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:25:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heat pump will use more absolute electricity (and cost.) It's also more efficient because it "moves" heat from outside to inside, instead of being resistance heating. You will get more heat for your money with the pump, but may have to pay more to get that more heat. 
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:25:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Cost" efficient. Heat pumps do not create heat...they just move it. It costs less energy to move heat rather than create it with electricity. 
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:27:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're going to block your registers, don't do it with something flammable.... |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:30:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is your house the size of a walk in closet ? A 1500 watt space heater is only about 5000-5200 BTU. I would think a 1500 watt heater would be fine for a big bedroom, but not an entire floor of a house. Heat pump is going to be kicking in a lot I would think. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:36:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2.5 ton. i cant find how much power it draws 120 volt 20 amp breaker for the space heater. The heat pump will use two 30 amp breakers, i think. What are you going to do the keep the pipes from freezing? |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:44:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if heat pumps are 3X more efficient than electric that would make heat pumps 300% efficient according to your math.. Which is impossible... Heat pumps work by moving heat from outdoors air to indoors air. A watt of electricity spent powering a heat pump can put more heat into your home than a watt of resistance. As it get's colder outside there isn't enough heat available to be moved and the heat pump stops pumping. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:45:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if heat pumps are 3X more efficient than electric that would make heat pumps 300% efficient according to your math.. Which is impossible... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It means it's 3X more efficient than electric. Electric is 100% because all energy is turned to heat. Heat pump is 3X more efficient. "An Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) will typically produce around 3kW thermal energy for every 1kW of electrical energy consumed, giving an effective “efficiency” of 300%." |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:49:48 AM EDT
[#33]
A hvac guy that installed my heat pump told me to just heat the whole house, don't block off vent or cold air returns as it reduces efficiency of the heat pump and makes the blower work harder.
Also a heat pump should be set at one constant temperature. Below 35 degrees mine shuts off and runs my oil furnace. Rather than screw with all that I would plastic off leaking windows, or hang blankets over them, put draft stoppers by the outside doors. Keep the heat you make inside longer. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:52:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electric heat is 100% Efficient (fact).... It would be impossible for something to be 300% Efficient.. Electric heat 1.5kw=5,118btu If you look at the 12,000 btu Daikin heat pump below it consumes only 0.9kw to produce 12,000 btu of heat. The 18,000 btu consumes 1.4kw. 
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:53:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should be saying 3x more expensive to operate! https://energy.gov/energysaver/home-heating-systems/electric-resistance-heating |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 12:55:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Keep in mind that it is not just your heat pump using electricity. The heat pump,p also requires you to have an air handler, which is typically a furnace, to move the heated air through your ductwork. That is unless you are talking about a mini-split without any ductwork.
You can purchase many different energy consumption devices to track your energy usage. Someone above mentioned a Kill-a-Watt, which is good for 120-volt corded appliances. I use a system from Efergy, which has donuts that wrap around the electrical wires in your panel. I keep mine around the two main lines feeding the panel, but you could easily put donuts just around the circuit for your heat pump, just keep in mind you may also have to factor in your air handler. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:03:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Dude, heating required for the space is a matter of heat loss. The heater replaces the missing BTUs. All things being equal, the heat pump at 40 degrees outside temperature is about 2 times more efficient than resistive electric heat. So if you are heating the same number of square feet the heat pump will be more efficient.
Heat rises, so heat that you inject with the resistive heater will rise filling the upstairs. Unless you can close off that space, I dought you will save any money. Your best bet is to plug the holes that increase heat loss. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:11:04 AM EDT
[#38]
It’s too cold here for the heat pump to work. We’re burning propane right now for heat. So I have my thermostat turned down to 60 at night and use an oil filled electric heater by the bed. It may not technically be more efficient, but my goal is to not have to refill the propane tank mid winter when the price is double.
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:15:50 AM EDT
[#39]
The real answer is use your heat pump whenever possible.
Mine makes heat at 27f, because it is a newer type. Below that I use propane backup, it's cheaper and warmer than a heat pump that is struggling. That said, if you want to be truly cheap, I run my heat pump during the day , then switch it off when temps drop below 27f. Also I run the propane at 60f for the whole house, and run an oil filled radiator in my room to make the difference up. Also radiator must have a thermostat, or else it wont save you any money. Any other type of electric resistive heat , like the coils in your heat pump.....are far worse to feed. Heat the room your in, set the rest of the house cold.....you will save money. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:18:50 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Resistance heating is the most expensive heat you will ever use. If you are going to use electricity to heat, a heat pump is far cheaper to use per BTU then resistance heating. [space heater] At that point "heat pumps" fire up a battery of resistance heaters or gas heaters (depending). Heat pumps basically shit the bed below 30 degrees F. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:19:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heat pump will use more absolute electricity (and cost.) It's also more efficient because it "moves" heat from outside to inside, instead of being resistance heating. You will get more heat for your money with the pump, but may have to pay more to get that more heat. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:25:36 AM EDT
[#42]
You want to reduce your overall electric bill, right?
Why don't you heat by one method for a few days and read your meter each day. Then heat by the other method and read your meter each day. Then compare power use, taking into account weather conditions. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:31:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://help.leonardo-energy.org/hc/en-us/articles/203047881-How-efficient-is-a-heat-pump- "An Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) will typically produce around 3kW thermal energy for every 1kW of electrical energy consumed, giving an effective “efficiency” of 300%." "It is thermodynamically impossible to have an efficiency of more than 100%, as this implies that more energy is being produced than is being put in. " |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:37:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Save that below some temps, the heat-pump becomes ineffective. You are asking something to become colder than the environment. At that point "heat pumps" fire up a battery of resistance heaters or gas heaters (depending). Heat pumps basically shit the bed below 30 degrees F. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Resistance heating is the most expensive heat you will ever use. If you are going to use electricity to heat, a heat pump is far cheaper to use per BTU then resistance heating. [space heater] At that point "heat pumps" fire up a battery of resistance heaters or gas heaters (depending). Heat pumps basically shit the bed below 30 degrees F. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:39:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My experience is it is much cheaper to heat with 240 volt as apposed to 120 volt. Something to do with the way watts are measured. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:46:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Heat pumps and resistive (oil radiator) heat via different principles. A 1500w heater will produce 1500w of heat. However, a heatpump drawing 3000w may be producing 7500w equivalent heat. Thats because you will get not only the heat from the power draw but the heat pumps main job is to extract heat from the air outside of your house and bring it indoors. How well it does that depends on the outside temperature as well.
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:50:24 AM EDT
[#47]
Holy shit this thread has it all. A guy that says a 240V watt costs less than a 120v watt, and another guy that can't comprehend how a heat pump can be >100% efficient.
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:51:02 AM EDT
[#48]
If you absolutely want to reduce the amount of electricity you are using, install a super efficient inverter min-split system in the room where the resistance heater is.
Since mini splits have little to no ducting, they forego those energy losses typically associated central forced-air systems. Duct losses can easily account for more than 30% of energy consumption, especially if the ducts are not sealed tight or in an unconditioned space such as an attic or crawlspace. With ratings as high as 33.0-SEER (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio) and 14.2 HSPF Heating Seasonal Performance Factor they are very efficient. Heating capacity at low outdoor temperatures is improved by adopting a large heat exchanger and a high capacity compressor, providing heat pump operation to -5 degrees F. The inverter component allows the outdoor unit to vary its speed and output to match the required capacity of the indoor unit. Thus, the inverter model can achieve 30% more operating efficiency than conventional models and therefore, is much less expensive to run. |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:56:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. And why does a heat pump system only use electric backup [if NG or propane is not available] when the heat pump can no longer transfer heat from outside to inside? Cost per BTU. A really on the ball "serviceman" will offer a natural gas/LPG based AC system. (yes they exist). |
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Posted: 12/31/2017 1:57:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL watt? |
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