The Real Reason the US Navy Keeps Hitting Merchant Vessels - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Real Reason the US Navy Keeps Hitting Merchant Vessels (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:47:33 PM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:

Results of leadership put in place during the Obama years?

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Well prior, and a result of the SWO community's culture, IMO.

The increased demands of the GWOT on a shrinking fleet didn't help matters.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:50:59 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
The Navy is being turned into one big social experiment!! I'm so sick and tired of this PC bullshit and nonsense

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Been that way since the beginning. In the late 70's the USMC had us peeing in cups.....drug testing. Sound familiar?

If you want a compliant and captive group to experiment on chose the one that volunteered for it and can't leave.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:51:32 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:
Lol strong arrogance. So why does your opinion matter? What are your credentials pertaining to this topic?

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Quoted:

Quoted:

You = Out of your element.

Lol strong arrogance. So why does your opinion matter? What are your credentials pertaining to this topic?

This is going to be fun.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:54:20 PM EDT

[#4]

So what your saying OP is all they gays and trannies are sexually distracting to our officers after being out at sea for so long. It is an interesting theory.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:54:59 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

This is going to be fun.

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Why? It's a simple question.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:58:17 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

This is going to be fun.

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My tax dollars pay for that post. I have a right to know.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:58:46 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't know how it's done in the navy, but in the Army Guard we used to fit all of the mandatory annual briefings, PC-based or not, into one marathon day of briefings and powerpoints, and then get on to the important training stuff....

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Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:59:02 PM EDT

[#8]

women drivers?

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:01:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Given that two Captains were relieved of duty just this morning, and the heinous loss of 17 lives in these 'accidents'....something needs to change.

The 'problem' is instilled at the Academies. We're turning out liberally programed officers from our service academies. The military is rife with left wingers who have been indoctrinated during their training at the academies.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:04:56 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

Even if the McCain had been the stand on vessel, which it was not, it was still obligated to take evasive action to avoid the collision.
...

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Fails to understand the meaning of the term "solely".

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:05:43 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
The Navy is being turned into one big social experiment!! I'm so sick and tired of this PC bullshit and nonsense

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Everything the democrats get a hold of becomes a social experiment; "just wait and see how it turns out, it's going to be great!!!"

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:05:58 PM EDT

[#12]

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The Navy is a social justice petri dish now. No doubt about that. Warfighting first my ass.

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I could not have said it better.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:10:12 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:

This. As automation and technology replace personnel, systems get more complex and require a more highly trained and competent crew. Combine that with decreasing training, training by dvd course, and other shortcuts, this was a ticking time bomb.

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That is a major factor to incompetence and poor quality of training.

The Green Eye Shade guys love it, but it is extremely ineffective and inefficient.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:14:50 PM EDT

[#14]

Last week we spent two hours listening to some Commander tell us that calling someone a pussy is a slight against women. Instead we should call them "soft". In addition we should not use the terms sissy or girly. Two hours of how we have to be careful not to offend gays and females when we speak. Two hours of how all men are sexist and we need to acknowledge it and change our ways.

The only decent and informative part of the training was the desire to treat each other better as it appears the USN has finally figured out that, organizationally, we treat each other like dog shit.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:21:19 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

First verse, Original version.

Stand Navy down the field, sails set to the sky.
We'll never change our course, so Army you steer shy-y-y-y.
Roll up the score, Navy, Anchors Aweigh.
Sail Navy down the field and sink the Army, sink the Army Grey

First verse, Revision in 1997.
Stand Navy out to sea,
Fight our battle cry;
We'll never change our course,
So vicious foe steer shy-y-y-y.
Roll out the TNT,
Anchors Aweigh.
Sail on to victory
And sink their bones to Davy Jones, hooray

Neither are inspiring and the revision is shitty.
The first version just seems like a college fight song, against Army.

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Actually, I think it WAS a fight song against West Point.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:21:34 PM EDT

[#16]

When I was a sailor in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club for Boys, we didn't have all this technology to lean on. Of course, that was a while ago. I was the guy with the big drum who set the pace for the oarsmen...

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:21:40 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last week we spent two hours listening to some Commander tell us that calling someone a pussy is a slight against women. Instead we should call them "soft". In addition we should not use the terms sissy or girly. Two hours of how we have to be careful not to offend gays and females when we speak. Two hours of how all men are sexist and we need to acknowledge it and change our ways.

The only decent and informative part of the training was the desire to treat each other better as it appears the USN has finally figured out that, organizationally, we treat each other like dog shit.

View Quote

That's gay.

The proper substitute term, has always been, "wussy".

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:23:07 PM EDT

[#18]

The modern military lacks the strong tyrannical leadership like I had when I joined in the 90s.

They tried to give me a LOR for telling a soldier he was a POS and his dad should have jerked off in a toilet to keep him from contaminating my beloved 82nd Ann Div.

His room was trashed, he was a lazy pos and I meant every word.

Nothing happened since I was retiring and refused to apologize for it.

When I joined if you fell asleep on guard chances were the PSG was punching you in the head or face.

I think we have some good leaders, they just are not feared as they were because they don't want a bad mark for telling a POS he is a POS.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:24:39 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last week we spent two hours listening to some Commander tell us that calling someone a pussy is a slight against women. Instead we should call them "soft". In addition we should not use the terms sissy or girly. Two hours of how we have to be careful not to offend gays and females when we speak. Two hours of how all men are sexist and we need to acknowledge it and change our ways.

The only decent and informative part of the training was the desire to treat each other better as it appears the USN has finally figured out that, organizationally, we treat each other like dog shit.

View Quote

We are in dangerous times when a sailor can't cuss.

I worked for a foreman who had saltwater for veins.

The man was a verbal artist. I would stare in wonder and awe even when he was ripping me a new one for doing something stupid.

He also taught me that there is only one unit of measurement that matters: the R.C.H.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:26:27 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last week we spent two hours listening to some Commander tell us that calling someone a pussy is a slight against women. Instead we should call them "soft". In addition we should not use the terms sissy or girly. Two hours of how we have to be careful not to offend gays and females when we speak. Two hours of how all men are sexist and we need to acknowledge it and change our ways.

The only decent and informative part of the training was the desire to treat each other better as it appears the USN has finally figured out that, organizationally, we treat each other like dog shit.

View Quote

That Commander sounds like a pussy

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:27:51 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

https://i.imgur.com/WmpxJ3a.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know how it's done in the navy, but in the Army Guard we used to fit all of the mandatory annual briefings, PC-based or not, into one marathon day of briefings and powerpoints, and then get on to the important training stuff....

Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

https://i.imgur.com/WmpxJ3a.jpg

AAR...

First subject..common sense

verdict...needs improvement

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:29:56 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
The modern military lacks the strong tyrannical leadership like I had when I joined in the 90s.

They tried to give me a LOR for telling a soldier he was a POS and his dad should have jerked off in a toilet to keep him from contaminating my beloved 82nd Ann Div.

His room was trashed, he was a lazy pos and I meant every word.

Nothing happened since I was retiring and refused to apologize for it.

When I joined if you fell asleep on guard chances were the PSG was punching you in the head or face.

I think we have some good leaders, they just are not feared as they were because they don't want a bad mark for telling a POS he is a POS.

View Quote

I knew an artillery officer who, when he was a battery commander O-3, would take a big red Sharpie to the field for field exercises. I'm talking the massive aluminum-bodied ones the size of a bayonet handle, with a 1/2"-thick red felt tip. He would wake up at 4am, have his coffee, and crawl out to his LP/OP sites. If he found the guards sleeping, he'd grab them from behind, pull their head back, and "slash" their throats with the Sharpie. (Being a prior service enlisted Marine sniper had something to do with this fetish.) Then everyone could see for the rest of the field problem that those guys had fallen asleep on guard.

He'd probably get relieved of command and court-martialed for assault today.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:31:33 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
AAR...

First subject..common sense

verdict...needs improvement

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know how it's done in the navy, but in the Army Guard we used to fit all of the mandatory annual briefings, PC-based or not, into one marathon day of briefings and powerpoints, and then get on to the important training stuff....

Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

https://i.imgur.com/WmpxJ3a.jpg

AAR...

First subject..common sense

verdict...needs improvement

If your goal as CO is to have your soldiers ready to repel looters, it needs improvement.

If your goal as CO is to maintain ammo accountability, fuck self-defense, it's a great technique.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:35:29 PM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:
That Commander sounds like a pussy

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He's a Commander. He's doing the job he was told to do. I do know that he is a good officer and has a good reputation among his peers also. He doesn't get to make policy. As far as social justice policy making he and I are about the same and I'm a 1st class. This shit is drawn up at the high levels where civilians and flag officers intermingle. FBHO had 8 years to salt the military. He used us, and we are still being used, as rats in a social engineering experiment.

Conservatives and opposition views are kept quiet and not spoken out loud. Anyone who rocks the boat is thrown overboard. As an officer or enlisted it's the same.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:37:05 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
The Navy is being turned into one big social experiment!! I'm so sick and tired of this PC bullshit and nonsense

View Quote

Its not just the Navy.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:39:25 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
If your goal as CO is to have your soldiers ready to repel looters, it needs improvement.

If your goal as CO is to maintain ammo accountability, fuck self-defense, it's a great technique.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know how it's done in the navy, but in the Army Guard we used to fit all of the mandatory annual briefings, PC-based or not, into one marathon day of briefings and powerpoints, and then get on to the important training stuff....

Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

https://i.imgur.com/WmpxJ3a.jpg

AAR...

First subject..common sense

verdict...needs improvement

If your goal as CO is to have your soldiers ready to repel looters, it needs improvement.

If your goal as CO is to maintain ammo accountability, fuck self-defense, it's a great technique.

Lol

yea never in 25 yrs service did we ever tape a mag.

Thats nuts if you ask me

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:44:20 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Fails to understand the meaning of the term "solely".

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If you're referring to the tanker failing to take evasive action, wasn't the tanker in world's busiest channel, lacking the ability to turn or stop because of it's massive of cargo in a timely fashion?
Any action on the tanker's part would have been extremely slow to respond.

ETA The USS McCain has quite the ability to quickly out maneuver compromising situations.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:45:59 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well prior, and a result of the SWO community's culture, IMO.

The increased demands of the GWOT on a shrinking fleet didn't help matters.

View Quote

You can think of it like poor maintenance on a piece of machinery. A machine designed for very high performance can often run at reduced performance, even when damaged. Unless and until you stress it, you might not know anything is wrong if you aren't performing proper monitoring and maintenance tasks.

If you aren't paying attention to the right things, problems may not become apparent until the machine is stressed enough to break it.

Someone recently asked me why these problems are only happening in 7th Fleet. I said the problem exists everywhere, but the operational stress is highest in 7th Fleet, and so that's where the machine breaks.

The problem has existed for a long time. Even the old-timers say some of these things have been around when they were training up 15-20 years ago. There's not a single point of blame.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:46:08 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
He's a Commander. He's doing the job he was told to do. I do know that he is a good officer and has a good reputation among his peers also. He doesn't get to make policy. As far as social justice policy making he and I are about the same and I'm a 1st class. This shit is drawn up at the high levels where civilians and flag officers intermingle. FBHO had 8 years to salt the military. He used us, and we are still being used, as rats in a social engineering experiment.

Conservatives and opposition views are kept quiet and not spoken out loud. Anyone who rocks the boat is thrown overboard. As an officer or enlisted it's the same.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
That Commander sounds like a pussy

He's a Commander. He's doing the job he was told to do. I do know that he is a good officer and has a good reputation among his peers also. He doesn't get to make policy. As far as social justice policy making he and I are about the same and I'm a 1st class. This shit is drawn up at the high levels where civilians and flag officers intermingle. FBHO had 8 years to salt the military. He used us, and we are still being used, as rats in a social engineering experiment.

Conservatives and opposition views are kept quiet and not spoken out loud. Anyone who rocks the boat is thrown overboard. As an officer or enlisted it's the same.

Sometimes leaders have to rock the boat.

Prime example the SHARP bs

When I was a 1SG we would be required to give the quarterly SHARP faggotry briefs.

Before the brief I would start with how I thought it was gay and you better not be sucking each other off in the shower.

I would tell them they are required to be here while I went through the slides and play on your phones quietly.

Just make sure to sign the damn sheet and take your trash out with you

This is probably why I never made E-8

Fuck them and their SHARP bullshit

Some policy makers need their shit pushed in with a ax handle

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:52:36 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
The problem has existed for a long time. Even the old-timers say some of these things have been around when they were training up 15-20 years ago. There's not a single point of blame.

View Quote

That's why the culture is the first thing to point out, and the hardest thing to fix.

The SWOs need to get rid of their defensive, eat-their-young, masochist bullshit mindset. Its not weakness to need sleep or have proper training pathways, nor is it a strength to make a point of attriting your officers like its your job.

Honestly, I wonder if the immediate answer is make certain billets on the ship like CHENG or the Gator an SSO billet.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:54:16 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
The ~~Navy is being~~ ENTIRE US Military has been turned into one big social experiment!! I'm so sick and tired of this PC bullshit and nonsense

View Quote

FIXT

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:54:32 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

I should have summarized my post like this;

Merchant vessel= apple

Navy ship = orange

You = Out of your element

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Oh the irony

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:55:22 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
The theory that is was a case of hacking seems like a more plausible one to me.
Taking out the entire fleet without having to fight it, Beijing would be proud.

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Take the tin-foil off. This had nothing to do with hacking ship's systems. This is a lack of emphasis on basic seamanship and watch-standing that have been practiced for decades if not centuries. The critical issues are knowing when to contact the CO about contacts, following night and standing orders, having an organized, coordinated and attentive watch team on the Bridge and Combat. Some of the most interesting, challenging, memorable, and even fun watches as an OOD on a DD-963 and FFG-7 were with the electronics turned off and using bearing draft (relative motion), contact aspect to maneuver in these situations.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:57:17 PM EDT

[#34]

I mourn for the loss of the USN that I knew and loved.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:57:31 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol

yea never in 25 yrs service did we ever tape a mag.

Thats nuts if you ask me

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know how it's done in the navy, but in the Army Guard we used to fit all of the mandatory annual briefings, PC-based or not, into one marathon day of briefings and powerpoints, and then get on to the important training stuff....

Like putting tape over the ten rounds you're issued for Hurricane Deployment?

https://i.imgur.com/WmpxJ3a.jpg

AAR...

First subject..common sense

verdict...needs improvement

If your goal as CO is to have your soldiers ready to repel looters, it needs improvement.

If your goal as CO is to maintain ammo accountability, fuck self-defense, it's a great technique.

Lol

yea never in 25 yrs service did we ever tape a mag.

Thats nuts if you ask me

I completely agree. The taped mags seem to be an indicator of those NG soldiers' CO or senior NCOs having misplaced priorities.

Posted: 9/19/2017 1:59:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol

yea never in 25 yrs service did we ever tape a mag.

Thats nuts if you ask me

View Quote

Lol, you aint seen nothing...

So....when we fly over the beach we have a M-11 and 2x15 round mags. However, we only load 13 to "save the springs" and the mags are kept in a Ziploc bag that is taped so tight that you need a nice knife to even get to them. If I ever went down it would take 5 minutes to load the damn weapon. Of course flying with a mag in the gun and your ass will get a LOR/LOI/etc.

Yeah we are bad asses dropping JDAM from 20k feet all day long but god forbid we are trusted to have a loaded gun. Of course, ready room chairs have been shot in the past but still.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:00:50 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's why the culture is the first thing to point out, and the hardest thing to fix.

The SWOs need to get rid of their defensive, eat-their-young, masochist bullshit mindset. Its not weakness to need sleep or have proper training pathways, nor is it a strength to make a point of attriting your officers like its your job.

Honestly, I wonder if the immediate answer is make certain billets on the ship like CHENG or the Gator an SSO billet.

View Quote

SWO culture is absolute garbage. Piss poor performance is only matched by piss poor attitudes. But they always hate us so whatever. Drive the ship into the wind monkeys.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:01:42 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you're referring to the tanker failing to take evasive action, wasn't the tanker in world's busiest channel, lacking the ability to turn or stop because of it's massive of cargo in a timely fashion?
Any action on the tanker's part would have been extremely slow to respond.

View Quote

No - I made a statement "based solely" on a single piece of information, i.e., the geometry of the collision.

I did not address nor argue any other contributing factors.

All of the other contributing factors will come out in the investigation, as I stated.
Until that time, I give the benefit of the doubt to the crew.
At which time I will revise my opinion of the events based on the information available.

Everything until then is speculation.

But
As the give way vessel, the tanker must understand its relative inability to maneuver and make speed changes and take those factors into account while navigating/sailing.
The MOST DANGEROUS thing the MCCAIN could do in that situation is to operate unpredictably. i.e., not follow the rules of the road.
It is the duty of both (all) vessels to take action to avoid collisions, but the primary responsibility lies with the give way vessel not to create extremis situations in the first place.

If I am the tanker and I am plotting a course to safely CPA a contact, and that contact, who should maintain course and speed, unexpectedly changes course and/or speed, then my predicted CPA goes out the window.

That is why we need to see the investigation.
It's important to see the relative plots and actions before the collision of both vessels to understand how/what happened.

Math gets screwed up, people add left and right wrong, plots get screwed up, rudder orders get flip flopped, people rely on electronic tools too much, a visual CBDR situation may not be readily apparent until in extremis. There are a million factors that go into the final event.

Bottom line, I'm not ready to fry the crew of the MCCAIN wholesale.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:03:25 PM EDT

[#39]

Their SHARPE training is up to date isn't it?

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:04:38 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Their SHARPE training is up to date isn't it?

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You better believe it is. That shit gets briefed to Admirals. Priorities....

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:05:52 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
The Navy is being turned into one big social experiment!! I'm so sick and tired of this PC bullshit and nonsense

View Quote

Got into a spit flying, screaming argument with a gay USN 2nd Class Submariner a month or two ago after Trump ended tranny .mils when he over me say hooray all we need now is a return to DADT. I along woth the Commander In Cheif Trump got called a bigot and a piece of shit. Stood my ground...I am civvy. His friggin Chief was standing right there watching his 2nd Class loose his shit in public, in uniform. Another 2nd Class I am friends with said he (gay swabby) had the whole boat scared shitless of sexual harassment allegations and the ballzless Chief just let him do what he wanted because of the consequences of correcting him.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:09:22 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

We are in dangerous times when a sailor can't cuss.

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This problem has been a long time in the making.

Back in 1996-99 I worked on the staff at Great Lakes.
We had the "Navy's first female CO of Bootcamp" (just ask her). sigh...

She had these signs printed up and posted all over the base and used to rail on the RDCs to clean up their language.

"Profanity Is Not an Acceptable Form of Leadership"

When the recruits got off the bus, they went to receiving, pissed in a bottle, then had a lecture on how to write a grievance.

The first thing they were taught.

I was glad to see her go the last year of my tour there.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:16:56 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Results of leadership put in place during the Obama years?

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A lot of guys in command positions would have originally commissioned during or just before the Clinton years. Most of my peers who got their commissions and stayed in are Colonels now.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:17:28 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

No - I made a statement "based solely" on a single piece of information, i.e., the geometry of the collision.

I did not address nor argue any other contributing factors.

All of the other contributing factors will come out in the investigation, as I stated.
Until that time, I give the benefit of the doubt to the crew.
At which time I will revise my opinion of the events based on the information available.

Everything until then is speculation.

But
As the give way vessel, the tanker must understand its relative inability to maneuver and make speed changes and take those factors into account while navigating/sailing.
The MOST DANGEROUS thing the MCCAIN could do in that situation is to operate unpredictably. i.e., not follow the rules of the road.
It is the duty of both (all) vessels to take action to avoid collisions, but the primary responsibility lies with the give way vessel not to create extremis situations in the first place.

If I am the tanker and I am plotting a course to safely CPA a contact, and that contact, who should maintain course and speed, unexpectedly changes course and/or speed, then my predicted CPA goes out the window.

That is why we need to see the investigation.
It's important to see the relative plots and actions before the collision of both vessels to understand how/what happened.

Math gets screwed up, people add left and right wrong, plots get screwed up, rudder orders get flip flopped, people rely on electronic tools too much, a visual CBDR situation may not be readily apparent until in extremis. There are a million factors that go into the final event.

Bottom line, I'm not ready to fry the crew of the MCCAIN wholesale.

View Quote

Hey! I am not trying to make this a pissing contest and I know or at least like to think you are not either. You definitely bring good points to the table. Another place, another time I would like to think we could definitely carry on some good conversations over beer and shots. I know we don't want to sidetrack OP's thread.
Stay safe

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:28:24 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
This problem has been a long time in the making.

Back in 1996-99 I worked on the staff at Great Lakes.
We had the "Navy's first female CO of Bootcamp" (just ask her). sigh...

She had these signs printed up and posted all over the base and used to rail on the RDCs to clean up their language.

"Profanity Is Not an Acceptable Form of Leadership"

When the recruits got off the bus, they went to receiving, pissed in a bottle, then had a lecture on how to write a grievance.

The first thing they were taught.

I was glad to see her go the last year of my tour there.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

We are in dangerous times when a sailor can't cuss.

This problem has been a long time in the making.

Back in 1996-99 I worked on the staff at Great Lakes.
We had the "Navy's first female CO of Bootcamp" (just ask her). sigh...

She had these signs printed up and posted all over the base and used to rail on the RDCs to clean up their language.

"Profanity Is Not an Acceptable Form of Leadership"

When the recruits got off the bus, they went to receiving, pissed in a bottle, then had a lecture on how to write a grievance.

The first thing they were taught.

I was glad to see her go the last year of my tour there.

As a ROTC cadidiot in the early '90's, I had an upperclass cadet tell me that KISS meant "Keep it simple-stupid", so simple that it's stupid, because "Keep it simple, stupid" would be demeaning. Granted, said cadet's ONLY experience with the military was ROTC and I don't think he'd been to Advanced Camp or Mountain Warfare yet. Fortunately, from what I can tell, he did his four and out (he's the same New Jersey kid who had never touched a rifle before ROTC trying to tell me how to build a good position and do dime drills with a rubber duck rifle, when I had a stack of rifle competition medals from high school and had shot more in a week than he had in his entire life).

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:31:48 PM EDT

[#46]

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SWO culture is absolute garbage. Piss poor performance is only matched by piss poor attitudes. But they always hate us so whatever. Drive the ship into the wind monkeys.

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That's why the culture is the first thing to point out, and the hardest thing to fix.

The SWOs need to get rid of their defensive, eat-their-young, masochist bullshit mindset. Its not weakness to need sleep or have proper training pathways, nor is it a strength to make a point of attriting your officers like its your job.

Honestly, I wonder if the immediate answer is make certain billets on the ship like CHENG or the Gator an SSO billet.

SWO culture is absolute garbage. Piss poor performance is only matched by piss poor attitudes. But they always hate us so whatever. Drive the ship into the wind monkeys.

Garbage might be a little strong but there has always been too much emphasis on the survival of the fittest/sado-masochist BS and not enough developing and nurturing but if there is too much of the later then there would be people who would say that Surface Warfare has become too PC.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:33:29 PM EDT

[#47]

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Sometimes leaders have to rock the boat.

Prime example the SHARP bs

When I was a 1SG we would be required to give the quarterly SHARP faggotry briefs.

Before the brief I would start with how I thought it was gay and you better not be sucking each other off in the shower.

I would tell them they are required to be here while I went through the slides and play on your phones quietly.

Just make sure to sign the damn sheet and take your trash out with you

This is probably why I never made E-8

Fuck them and their SHARP bullshit

Some policy makers need their shit pushed in with a ax handle

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It's an unfortunate fact that in modern American society, one is unlikely to achieve a high leadership position if you're the type of person who will "rock the boat". These days such people are considered a liability or trouble maker.

We NEED people who care more about the mission than they do about self promotion and every little bit helps, but you can only accomplish so much as a low level leader.

I don't know what the answer is. Unless you play the game it's impossible to become a high level leader. If you just fake it and play along enough to get by then nobody is fooled and you won't get promoted. People who put forth genuine effort as low level leaders obviously will not become boat rockers once they become high level leaders.

This applies to both .mil and civilian carrier fields.