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Posted: 9/14/2017 4:53:03 PM EDT
[#1]
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Would be interesting to see what percentage of all reported CO poisonings are from propane- or NG-fueled portable generators. Even after you accounted for the higher number of gasoline-fueled portable generators out there, you'd probably still see a much lower incidence of CO poisoning with LPG or NG models. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do generator engines produce more than CO than vehicles? Gasoline - if the generator is under load and your car is idling, then sure. Even after you accounted for the higher number of gasoline-fueled portable generators out there, you'd probably still see a much lower incidence of CO poisoning with LPG or NG models. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:00:22 PM EDT
[#2]
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You really can't be that stupid, can you? The garage has a 17ft door. The door is OPEN. THAT is why the Genny has to be CHAINED to the frame of a locked vehicle. Because theft. Just because Floridians can't think for themselves, don't think other people are as foolish! If you run a generator in a garage Darwin will come knocking. Chain the generator to the Jeep outside. Better yet pour a concrete pad and anchor it to the pad. You have rifles to protect against theft. ETA: I'm a mechanical contractor, I've had colleagues poisoned by CO. It's not fun and your sensitivity to it never goes away. Lives are worth more than a fucking generator. If you can afford it buy a whole home generator. They can be had for the price of one or 2 nice rifles. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:11:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol! This is one subject guaranteed to trigger the helpless Milleneals.  
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:13:25 PM EDT
[#4]
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Good way to kill a lineman. Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:14:46 PM EDT
[#5]
How many of you know a Lineman that touches a wire, without checking if its "hot" first?
That being said....you don't ever feed power back out to the grid without having it properly set up with the company first. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:17:30 PM EDT
[#6]
So, this thread made me go check my breaker box.
I don't have a main breaker :-( |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:19:18 PM EDT
[#7]
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@J75player Sure thing. It would help if you even understood the question, which you obviously do not. Here is the original question that I responded to that had fuck all to do with backfeeding the grid: 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:21:20 PM EDT
[#8]
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So, this thread made me go check my breaker box. I don't have a main breaker :-( |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:34:36 PM EDT
[#9]
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It's probably at the power pole/meter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So, this thread made me go check my breaker box. I don't have a main breaker :-( Further research required. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:37:13 PM EDT
[#10]
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I don't think it's accessible to me. Further research required. Never saw that before and thought it was strange. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:39:34 PM EDT
[#11]
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Be nice Expy! They can't help it...... |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:40:25 PM EDT
[#12]
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Not everyone has the resources to buy a firearm, should they make one themselves??? Tons of people load their own ammunition also, and we have a forum dedicated to that. Both of which are knowledge and risk intensive tasks, as is putting together an electrical cord. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:52:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tons of people assemble their own AR15s as well as other firearms.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:54:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Here's the rig I loaned to a friend for a hurricane abt 10 years ago, forget.
He isolated his home!!! I loaned him the 2 breakers and he simply snapped them into a panel in his garage. That genny is noisy as all get out and he had to run it about 2 weeks steady and powered his two central air units. Many trips for gas. IIRC that hurricane flooded a lake in back of my house and the water came up to within a few feet of reaching it. A house up the street where the topology is considerably lower flooded badly. I had an older Honda 2200 watt genny and loaned it to another friend and they used it over a week IIRC. Both were returned with spares and perfect. The post where that lady was filling some Home Depot buckets would have been useful to my buddy who only had 2 cans and was going back and forth to the gas station. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:57:53 PM EDT
[#15]
The friend who borrowed the big genny swore he was going to install a big whole house genny. Talked abt it for awhile.
The next hurricane to come thru not too many years ago, he called and said he bought the last 8kw or something at H-D and needed a special connector to hook it up. First question I asked was--- why did you wait til now to do this... He got pissed!!! Solved his issue tho... |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:04:39 PM EDT
[#16]
I love these threads, very entertaining but I've got an idea, all of us actually qualified to respond should sit back and let it go. It's not worth wasting time arguing with most of the wrong info here, just gets annoying. Unless of course....you like arguing. lol
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:13:48 PM EDT
[#17]
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I love these threads, very entertaining but I've got an idea, all of us actually qualified to respond should sit back and let it go. It's not worth wasting time arguing with most of the wrong info here, just gets annoying. Unless of course....you like arguing. lol From my earlier post: 30A Inlet: $50 10' 30A cord: $50 (20' is $75) Interlock: $50 (depends on the brand, this could go up to $150 for a 3rd party brand). 2-pole breaker: $11-18 All of those things can be purchased from Amazon. Then you go to Home Depot or Lowes for a few connectors, some 10-3 romex, silicone to seal the inlet, and that's just about it. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:14:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not sure you really understand how poisoning really works. It's CO {carbon monoxide} that causes the poisoning, not CO2, which your body produces and a by-produce of the human metabolic process. Since I know the difference between CO & C02, you don't need to be lecturing me. Go annoy someone else with inaccurate information and overwrought warnings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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 Don't be so damn hysterical!
You have to be smarter than the average rabbit. You have to have the presence of mind to flip the main breakers off before plugging into a socket. My garage is wired so one side corresponds to one leg, and the other garage side to the other leg. Chain the Genny to the Jeep parked in the garage, and plug into the side of the garage that what you need powered in the house. Easy. Now, the only downside is that you have to watch the neighborhood to see when the power comes back on, to know when to unhook the Genny and repower the breaker box. People get killed after every natural disaster from running generators indoors. The fucking generator must be outdoors where there is no chance of exhaust gasses re-entering the building. So far 3 people have died in Florida due to this stupidity. I have a 50 amp outlet on the side of my house for the generator to suicide plug into. This is not a good idea for about 75% of the population, maybe more. It is also used to run an air compressor. Since I know the difference between CO & C02, you don't need to be lecturing me. Go annoy someone else with inaccurate information and overwrought warnings. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#19]
There's a world of difference between the mechanical-interference interlock and the just-remember interlock in terms of reliability.
The problem that in this case its not your ass on the line, it's some other guy(s) who will get killed. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:18:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While we're being all smart about things... fixed it for you.
But pedantic chemistry aside, you are correct about running them even in an garage with open doors. This was explicitly tested by NIOSH. Iowa State has this to say about it: I do the same as you, I have an outlet on the outside that I plug the suicide cable into, and I disconnect both the indoor main and the outdoor service disconnect before I fire up the generator, and I shut the generator off before I flip them back on, it's a routine I've practiced many times. I live in an area where we get frequent short outages (no more than 4 hours usually) so I've only ever really NEEDED to hook the genny up maybe twice in 5 years. But the generator is ALWAYS outside, and I keep it as far from the house as my hookup cable will allow (about 30 feet). For the other guy, the reason CO is so deadly is that the onset of symptoms can be quite gradual, so you don't really notice it. You can't smell it, you can't see it, you can't feel it. It's just another gas introduced into the air around you. So you might not have any symptoms at all or maybe you just have mild symptoms like a minor headache or just feel a bit "off" for a few hours, but then you go to bed and die in your sleep because the CO levels keep building in your blood until you die from hypoxia. CO binds to the red blood cells and prevents them from attaching to O2 molecules, and the more CO in your blood the less O2, so you basically suffocate over many minutes (suicide by car exhaust) to several hours (people running generators and improperly ventilated combustion heat sources inside their homes). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't be so damn hysterical!
You have to be smarter than the average rabbit. You have to have the presence of mind to flip the main breakers off before plugging into a socket. My garage is wired so one side corresponds to one leg, and the other garage side to the other leg. Chain the Genny to the Jeep parked in the garage, and plug into the side of the garage that what you need powered in the house. Easy. Now, the only downside is that you have to watch the neighborhood to see when the power comes back on, to know when to unhook the Genny and repower the breaker box. People get killed after every natural disaster from running generators indoors. The fucking generator must be outdoors where there is no chance of exhaust gasses re-entering the building. So far 3 people have died in Florida due to this stupidity. I have a 50 amp outlet on the side of my house for the generator to suicide plug into. This is not a good idea for about 75% of the population, maybe more. It is also used to run an air compressor.
But pedantic chemistry aside, you are correct about running them even in an garage with open doors. This was explicitly tested by NIOSH. Iowa State has this to say about it: When I work in the garage, I keep all the doors open. Is that okay? No. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) ran a 5.5 horsepower gasoline-powered pressure washer in a double garage with both doors open, the window open, and a vent open. In only 12 minutes CO concentrations in the garage rose to 658 parts per million (ppm). The rate of emission from a typical gasoline engine is so large (30,000 to 100,000 ppm) that it is very difficult to provide sufficient ventilation. NIOSH warns, “Do not use equipment and tools powered by gasoline engines inside buildings…” But the generator is ALWAYS outside, and I keep it as far from the house as my hookup cable will allow (about 30 feet). For the other guy, the reason CO is so deadly is that the onset of symptoms can be quite gradual, so you don't really notice it. You can't smell it, you can't see it, you can't feel it. It's just another gas introduced into the air around you. So you might not have any symptoms at all or maybe you just have mild symptoms like a minor headache or just feel a bit "off" for a few hours, but then you go to bed and die in your sleep because the CO levels keep building in your blood until you die from hypoxia. CO binds to the red blood cells and prevents them from attaching to O2 molecules, and the more CO in your blood the less O2, so you basically suffocate over many minutes (suicide by car exhaust) to several hours (people running generators and improperly ventilated combustion heat sources inside their homes). 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:19:54 PM EDT
[#21]
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It's amazing how some of you will try to justify doing something STUPID.  Thanks for the vote of confidence there 
Why don't you establish a reputation here before you start running your mouth off?? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:21:21 PM EDT
[#22]
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How many of you know a Lineman that touches a wire, without checking if its "hot" first? That being said....you don't ever feed power back out to the grid without having it properly set up with the company first. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:25:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Join date/Post count. Thanks for the vote of confidence there
Why don't you establish a reputation here before you start running your mouth off?? It's pretty petty to live your life by the reputation on internet social media. I remember about 15+ years ago people would post an Image from the movie Fight Club of Tyler Durden saying "You're not your post count, you're not your join date". Unfortunately almost 2 decades later you are stil living on that silliness. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:32:06 PM EDT
[#24]
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Your friendly neighborhood lineman isn't grabbing ahold of wires willy-nilly. He has this thing about not trusting your stupid ass. And speaking of your stupid ass, do yourself a favor and kill the main breaker. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:35:03 PM EDT
[#25]
I do it. Mostly because I don't want my loud ass diesel generator right next to my bedroom wall and a road. I asked my lineman about it and he said just pull the meter. An electrician friend looked at the rest of it and said it was fine but would deny ever seeing it. No, it's not the best way.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:36:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and doesn't give a fuck how tall your door is. If you run a generator in a garage Darwin will come knocking. Chain the generator to the Jeep outside. Better yet pour a concrete pad and anchor it to the pad. You have rifles to protect against theft. ETA: I'm a mechanical contractor, I've had colleagues poisoned by CO. It's not fun and your sensitivity to it never goes away. Lives are worth more than a fucking generator. If you can afford it buy a whole home generator. They can be had for the price of one or 2 nice rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You really can't be that stupid, can you? The garage has a 17ft door. The door is OPEN. THAT is why the Genny has to be CHAINED to the frame of a locked vehicle. Because theft. Just because Floridians can't think for themselves, don't think other people are as foolish! If you run a generator in a garage Darwin will come knocking. Chain the generator to the Jeep outside. Better yet pour a concrete pad and anchor it to the pad. You have rifles to protect against theft. ETA: I'm a mechanical contractor, I've had colleagues poisoned by CO. It's not fun and your sensitivity to it never goes away. Lives are worth more than a fucking generator. If you can afford it buy a whole home generator. They can be had for the price of one or 2 nice rifles. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:38:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Amazing what people will do to avoid installing a gen transfer switch.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:40:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Hell I just looked up what the $60 interlock kit looks like for my old ass 200a SquareD panel. Shit I could make an interlock kit with a piece of damn sheet metal and some snips and a few screws and standoffs in a couple minutes.
That being said I have a pretty awesome dryer circuit. Bonus: Since my dryer is in my garage I can route the generator exhaust through the dryer vent too.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:46:55 PM EDT
[#29]
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I've been doing it for almost 40 years, but I'm not an idiot, and nobody has been hurt.
I have a plug in on my back porch, 20yrs now. If people don't understand this shit, don't mess with this shit. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:52:03 PM EDT
[#30]
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its a separate question. obviously you dont understand english No need to get your jimmies rustled my friend. Your question was already answered, in English, by me, in the post directly before the one you chose to quote. If you go back you will find your answer. You are welcome. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:00:48 PM EDT
[#31]
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Hell I just looked up what the $60 interlock kit looks like for my old ass 200a SquareD panel. Shit I could make an interlock kit with a piece of damn sheet metal and some snips and a few screws and standoffs in a couple minutes. That being said I have a pretty awesome dryer circuit. Bonus: Since my dryer is in my garage I can route the generator exhaust through the dryer vent too. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:05:14 PM EDT
[#32]
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Neat! Right now I am too busy arguing with all the GD electrical 'experts' in here, trying to teach them a little something, but it is like trying to heard chickens.... There are a bunch of people in here that have it right too. And this is why we can't have nice things. Cuz some tards get away with stuff, and tell other tards, and etc Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ever seen a 2500kW get snapped into phase that way? It's a humbling experience watching a 15 ton generator jump. snapped a few of these: http://www.vibrodynamics.com/images/spring/vsc-xh1_mounts.gif Right now I am too busy arguing with all the GD electrical 'experts' in here, trying to teach them a little something, but it is like trying to heard chickens.... There are a bunch of people in here that have it right too. And this is why we can't have nice things. Cuz some tards get away with stuff, and tell other tards, and etc Most lineman will be checking to see if wires are hot before working but those poor bastards are working 15 hours days and familiarity breeds complacency....unfortunately electricity is unforgiving. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:13:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Someone I know might have made a cord he can use to feed power into his 220 outlet normally used for his air compressor in his detatched garage. This vaguely familiar individual has his garage run off from a panel in the house. In the event of an outage, this random guy can pull the fuse from the power pole and keep his furnace and other high priority items running with his generator.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:33:52 PM EDT
[#34]
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Figured as much, glad I passed on his services. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:37:03 PM EDT
[#35]
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You are literally full of shit. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:37:08 PM EDT
[#36]
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Of course you can, but it won't be UL or equivalent listed / approved. For some people (or their local codes / insurance) that might matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hell I just looked up what the $60 interlock kit looks like for my old ass 200a SquareD panel. Shit I could make an interlock kit with a piece of damn sheet metal and some snips and a few screws and standoffs in a couple minutes. That being said I have a pretty awesome dryer circuit. Bonus: Since my dryer is in my garage I can route the generator exhaust through the dryer vent too. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:59:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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For curiosity's sake. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What happens if/when FPL turns the power back on? For curiosity's sake. If its on, your generator runs backwards and makes gasoline. One of these is true, one is BS
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:00:09 PM EDT
[#38]
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It's amazing how some of you will try to justify doing something STUPID. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's amazing how some of you will try to justify doing something STUPID. Quoted:
Reputation on an internet forum is meaningless. I have a reputation with my customers along with licenses and qualifications which allow me to accurately say what I said. It's pretty petty to live your life by the reputation on internet social media. I remember about 15+ years ago people would post an Image from the movie Fight Club of Tyler Durden saying "You're not your post count, you're not your join date". Unfortunately almost 2 decades later you are stil living on that silliness. 
50 posts and all full of piss & vinegar usually means a retread. So, tell us, what was your screen name here last year? 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:07:53 PM EDT
[#39]
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Think about it, people that have larger units are going to back feed the bus bar in their breaker panel by rigging a double male into a 110 outlet (cus most people are fucking dumb). The load is on the other end of that 12 gauge romex, so the generator will keep squeezing the amps in there until the wire gets melty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Up front- I actually have a proper transfer switch I've paid to have installed. Now- my light duty backup before the transfer switch was an Honda 2000 - which means it only puts out about 16 amps max. I don't have a single breaker in my panel smaller than 15 amps. How is this going to burn down my house (assuming main breaker off, and all sub breakers off except for the outside socket that is backfeeding, and the breakers for the refridgerator and freezer [and furnace if it's winter])? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:16:17 PM EDT
[#40]
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In this thread, you came right out of the gate calling us stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this thread, you came right out of the gate calling us stupid. There is no two ways about it... Now, you're gonna tell me off, are you?! Petty. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:25:19 PM EDT
[#41]
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Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and doesn't give a fuck how tall your door is. If you run a generator in a garage Darwin will come knocking. Chain the generator to the Jeep outside. Better yet pour a concrete pad and anchor it to the pad. You have rifles to protect against theft. ETA: I'm a mechanical contractor, I've had colleagues poisoned by CO. It's not fun and your sensitivity to it never goes away. Lives are worth more than a fucking generator. If you can afford it buy a whole home generator. They can be had for the price of one or 2 nice rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You really can't be that stupid, can you? The garage has a 17ft door. The door is OPEN. THAT is why the Genny has to be CHAINED to the frame of a locked vehicle. Because theft. Just because Floridians can't think for themselves, don't think other people are as foolish! If you run a generator in a garage Darwin will come knocking. Chain the generator to the Jeep outside. Better yet pour a concrete pad and anchor it to the pad. You have rifles to protect against theft. ETA: I'm a mechanical contractor, I've had colleagues poisoned by CO. It's not fun and your sensitivity to it never goes away. Lives are worth more than a fucking generator. If you can afford it buy a whole home generator. They can be had for the price of one or 2 nice rifles. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:26:40 PM EDT
[#42]
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So, this thread made me go check my breaker box. I don't have a main breaker :-( |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:29:24 PM EDT
[#43]
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Why in the blue fuck would anyone do that? I have a 50 amp range circuit in the shop for the welder that I would use first. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:29:32 PM EDT
[#44]
A question for anyone who is willing to be honest.
Let's say someone made a new thread here saying "I like to mess with my 12-year-old son everyday by coming in the house, emptying my handgun, and pointing it at him and pulling the trigger." Would you say he is stupid? But he empties the gun each time, it's gotta be safe, right? There's no chance he can make a mistake, right?
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:30:45 PM EDT
[#45]
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Combustion is combustion. Natural gas appliances are vented for a reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would be interesting to see what percentage of all reported CO poisonings are from propane- or NG-fueled portable generators. Even after you accounted for the higher number of gasoline-fueled portable generators out there, you'd probably still see a much lower incidence of CO poisoning with LPG or NG models. There's a reason why forklifts and floor scrubbers designed for indoor use run on propane, rather than gasoline. There's also a reason why unvented fireplaces and heaters run on natural gas or propane, rather than gasoline. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:33:48 PM EDT
[#46]
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@criley I believe @otar answered it best: |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:37:16 PM EDT
[#47]
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Not everyone has the resources to buy a firearm, should they make one themselves??? Yeah, I don't think drilling a barrel out of steel and tempering it yourself is ideal, but it may work to make a homemade gun, right?? 
You are right about us being on a firearm enthusiasts forum which means just about everyone here has at least 1 firearm they can sell to pay for the small amount of equipment needed to make a safe portable generator connection. Hell, many of us shoot more in ammo in a weekend than it would cost to do the generator installation. And if you can't afford it, then bust your ass this month doing odd jobs to make the money. It's amazing how some of you will try to justify doing something STUPID. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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On a firearms board of all places. "You're too stupid to handle something potentially dangerous" and "leave it to the professionals or someone will get killed" are phrases we have heard before. There are ideal situations. Yes it would be wonderful if everyone had the funds to have a permanently and professionally installed NG powered whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch. Not everyone has the resources or ability to achieve that. I don't think anyone is arguing that a double male cord is the ideal.
You are right about us being on a firearm enthusiasts forum which means just about everyone here has at least 1 firearm they can sell to pay for the small amount of equipment needed to make a safe portable generator connection. Hell, many of us shoot more in ammo in a weekend than it would cost to do the generator installation. And if you can't afford it, then bust your ass this month doing odd jobs to make the money. It's amazing how some of you will try to justify doing something STUPID. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:39:13 PM EDT
[#48]
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Correct, but any damage done by the generator will not be covered by your home owners insurance. If you burn down your house, it's all on you. As many above said, don't do it. Assuming damage was accidental and not intentional. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:40:20 PM EDT
[#49]
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That problem is not eliminated by an external interlock on the breaker panel, fwiw. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:47:24 PM EDT
[#50]
I have a 100 amp panel in my shed. I installed a 50 amp outlet box with 8awg wire to the panel with a 50 amp breaker. This way I can back feed with the generator in the shed. It is for my welder mostly. But can serve another purpose.
This will cut down on noise and keeps the generator away from the house. Manual interlock will not work with my hoise without major surgery and a large expense. I have 2 main breakers that go off before the genertor is turned on. Is the perfect solution? Nope, but according to the neibor they have lost power 2 times in 15 years for a combined time of 6 hours. This will allow me to run some lights and the freezers and well pump. |
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