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Posted: 7/3/2003 11:58:14 AM EDT
How do the M4 and M1 carbines stack up against each other?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:05:59 PM EDT
I dont even know where to start with this one..
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:08:03 PM EDT
apples and oranges.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:11:26 PM EDT
If you lean them up against their bayonet lugs and/or handguards, they usually stack up fine. Three carbines work best as two usually just topple over.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:13:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:15:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 12:20:32 PM EDT by MAC-DADDY]
Because they aren't battle rifles that are issued "en masse" to ALL troops.This isn't the MAIN reason (or even A reason)for the lack of a stacking swivel.You don't NEED a s/s to stack rifles anyway.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:08:10 PM EDT
Both don't work (kill) as well at long range?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:21:29 PM EDT
Call me a priss, but I don't stack my rifles, it scratches the purty finish...
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:26:01 PM EDT
Like dogs finding shit to roll in...
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:45:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 2:46:13 PM EDT by BallisticTip]
M1 Carbines have a removable oil bottle, that the sling attaches to. M4's have a oil bottle that fits inside the but-stock trap door.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:47:19 PM EDT
comparing blondes to redheads...
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:06:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:18:04 PM EDT
the M1 carbine was designed as a replacement for the 1911 pistol, for use by rear echelon troops like the truck drivers, radiomen, jeep drivers, field cooks, etc. but it became popular with front line troops because of it's size and weight, but troops soon found it didnt have very good stopping power against the Chinese human waves during the Korean war. The M1 carbine is an intersting rifle but is also "obsolete". The M4 Carbine is a modern Hi-Tech modular weapons system that is current issue with US elite units and it fires the current issue 5.56 mm round. The M4 carbine is the better rifle.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:57:03 PM EDT
So I've always wondered, what's better, an elephant or a can opener?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 5:09:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DVDTracker: Why don't M4s (and M1 Carbines for that matter) have stacking swivels?
View Quote
If I recall correctly (it's been almost 20 years since Basic), M16s were stacked by making a loop at the front of the sling on one rifle, and the barrels of two others were placed through loop, forming a tower like in The_Beer_Slayer's picture.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 5:34:26 PM EDT
To my mind the M1 and the M4 are very similar in a sense- Both were developed for units who were issued something other than battle rifles, and both have found favor along a far broader base than originaly intended. Both have became favored weapons of SF using a wide variety of "add-ons" and both have had some controvercy about "knock down power". I was in the first cycle of 19Ks (tankers) at Ft.Knox to qualify with the M4 instead of the M16A2 and we found that there were occasions when the M4s wouldnt knock over a pop-up target on the first shot either. Now I surmise that this is because the popups are thin plastic shells, and only absorbed a small percentage of the kinetic energy of the round, but I also know that the pop-ups we shot with the M240, I could squeeze off one at a time and I never, ever had one fail to go down on me. Dont get me wrong, I'm pleased as punch that I've got something other than the M9, and VERY happy I dont have to carry a Grease Gun or an M1 Carbine into combat, but I just wish the Army would develop and employ ammo for the M4 specificaly. Maybe soft points or something. What I do know is, if I ever have to fight outside my tank, my first grab is going to be for a 7.62x39mm or 5.45x40 weapon- I qual once a year with an M4, and shoot it maybe three times a year. I put literaly crates of 7.62x39 and 5.45 down range for every shot I fire with 5.56. Besides, I've been shooting the AK and the SKS since I was 14, I'd like to imagine my ability to operate it while under extreme stress will fare better than my ability to operate an M4 that I'd forget how to shoot while qualifying.... Ulimatly I think the best weapon for a dismounted tanker would be a Mini-Thirty or an AKMS. Just my personal feeling. RG
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:58:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RebelGray: To my mind the M1 and the M4 are very similar in a sense- Both were developed for units who were issued something other than battle rifles, and both have found favor along a far broader base than originaly intended. Both have became favored weapons of SF using a wide variety of "add-ons" and both have had some controvercy about "knock down power". I was in the first cycle of 19Ks (tankers) at Ft.Knox to qualify with the M4 instead of the M16A2 and we found that there were occasions when the M4s wouldnt knock over a pop-up target on the first shot either. Now I surmise that this is because the popups are thin plastic shells, and only absorbed a small percentage of the kinetic energy of the round, but I also know that the pop-ups we shot with the M240, I could squeeze off one at a time and I never, ever had one fail to go down on me. Dont get me wrong, I'm pleased as punch that I've got something other than the M9, and VERY happy I dont have to carry a Grease Gun or an M1 Carbine into combat, but I just wish the Army would develop and employ ammo for the M4 specificaly. Maybe soft points or something. What I do know is, if I ever have to fight outside my tank, my first grab is going to be for a 7.62x39mm or 5.45x40 weapon- I qual once a year with an M4, and shoot it maybe three times a year. I put literaly crates of 7.62x39 and 5.45 down range for every shot I fire with 5.56. Besides, I've been shooting the AK and the SKS since I was 14, I'd like to imagine my ability to operate it while under extreme stress will fare better than my ability to operate an M4 that I'd forget how to shoot while qualifying.... Ulimatly I think the best weapon for a dismounted tanker would be a Mini-Thirty or an AKMS. Just my personal feeling. RG
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*Short hijack in progress* Disney barracks? Thats where I went through. We had the grease guns and M1911A1s. Carrying a grease gun sucks big time. Oh, I was a 19E also. *Highjack over* The M4 and M1 are different guns for different purposes. I have never fired an M4 but I do have an M1 carbine. I like it very much, great for plinking and with handloaded ammo (Ok, get ready to IM me with nasty-grams) plan to try deer hunting with it this fall. As for which I would prefer to carry into a fight, thats a tough question especially if the M1 had quality (not ball type) ammo. I think the M1 would make for a better horizontal butt stroke maybe even a better bayonet thrust but I really don't know. Main difference I can see is accuracy, especially at long range. Guess I ain't much help huh?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:06:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:07:21 PM EDT by RebelGray]
Disney barracks, first door on the right as you were facing it (Bravo Company) although they've gone to giving the WHOLE building over to the company and putting crews in bays instead of the 12-man bays we had. Just got out in May! I was an "old man" (25) in my Platoon, but I found the experience VERY enjoyable, and lost a shitload of extra weight while I was at it. Those were some sorry ass M1s, and I'll guarentee you that they're the same ones that were there when you were. I was on Bravo Six-Five and Bravo Two-Two most of the time. Loved the mud course but I thing gunnery is my true calling. Driving didnt make me sick, but the longer runs in the TDS did. I called the drivers hole "my cocoon". Anyhow, yeah, M1 Carbines are great plinkers. Ever played with the M2? With a forgrip and a para-stock its about the perfect automatic weapon.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:12:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tactical0: So I've always wondered, what's better, an elephant or a can opener?
View Quote
It's a toss-up. You can get an elephant to open cans and get something to eat, or you can kill an elephant with a can opener and get something to eat.
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