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Posted: 7/3/2003 7:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:29:52 AM EDT by Tactical_Jew]
<> Cop shoots dog attacking man Rottweiler bites SB animal control officer several times By JOE NELSON, Staff Writer SAN BERNARDINO - A loose Rottweiler attacked an animal control officer Tuesday, chewing on his legs, arms, chest and head before it was subdued with a shotgun blast and a tranquilizer dart, police and witnesses said. San Bernardino Animal Control Officer Raul Velasco was called to a home in the 3000 block of North F Street about 9:30 a.m. to check on two loose dogs, the Rottweiler and an Akita, that had escaped from their back yard through a hole in a chain-link gate. Velasco used a stick with a looped noose on the end a catchpole to subdue the Akita. As he was loading the dog into his truck, he was attacked by the Rottweiler, said Ken Childress, director of San Bernardino Animal Control. Velasco tried to fend off the 80-pound dog by maneuvering the Akita in front of it, using the catchpole as a steering device, Childress and witnesses said. Ken Clark, 64, who lives across the street, became un unsuspecting hero as the drama unfolded. He said he heard barking, looked out his window, and saw Velasco pinned against his truck, fending off the Rottweiler. "He was pretty bloody,' Clark said of the animal control officer. "The Rottweiler was circling and jumping around, trying to get in (at the officer).' Clark said he ran outside, grabbed a rake from his garage and ran to Velasco's aid. "I put the rake in the Rottweiler's face, and he backed off about three to four feet,' Clark said. He said he continued swiping at the dog for what seemed like forever. Neighbor Michelle Linder said Clark and Velasco's struggle lasted at least 15 minutes. Then, San Bernardino police Officer Ron Maas sped up in his patrol car. He grabbed his shotgun and got out of the vehicle. Maas said he saw the Rottweiler run around the Akita and start charging toward Velasco. "(Velasco) stepped to the right, and I took a shot,' Maas said. The blast struck the Rottweiler in the shoulder area, he said. When asked if he was scared, Clark said, "I was too busy to be scared. I was too worried about (Velasco) because he was a mess.' After the dog was shot, it ran into its back yard through the hole in the gate. When more police and animal control officers arrived, three tranquilizer darts were shot at the cowering Rottweiler. At least one of the darts struck the dog, which was later lifted into an animal control truck and taken away. The owners of both dogs released them to the custody of animal control officers. Both dogs will be euthanized, said Sue Hoak, operations manager for San Bernardino Animal Control. Police Lt. Mark Emoto said no criminal charges will be sought against the dogs' owners. Velasco was taken to Loma Linda University Medical Center for treatment and released. Hoak said she drove him home. "He's in a lot of pain,' she said. "He's bandaged from head to toe.'
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:36:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:40:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: ...it was subdued with a shotgun blast and a tranquilizer dart...
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Jeebus, that's one tough dog! Usually I'd prefer to be subdued with the tranquilizer dart first, hurts less that way!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:45:53 AM EDT
I wonder, did the cop use a Less lethal round on the dog?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:49:42 AM EDT
Sometimes it has to be done.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:51:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: No matter how "civilized" we become, you just never know when extreme, vicious violence will be necessary. Kudos to the guy with the rake--a true hero. I'm glad I have more than a rake to deal with such things. [:)]
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Having shot with you before, BK, I assume you have caches of Tannerite planted all over your neighborhood. Where all you would have to do is walk out on the front porch with you AR and select the closest one to the threat and blow the offending dog into Indiana......[;D]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:58:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:58:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:59:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: <> Both dogs will be euthanized, said Sue Hoak, operations manager for San Bernardino Animal Control.
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Yea, good shoot on the rotty. But what did the Akita do other than get loose.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:59:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:00:17 AM EDT
More than likely less-lethal rounds. I can't see an 80 lb dog taking a shoulder hit from 12ga. buckshot and running off, unless he hit it more in the leg than the shoulder. At least this time it's kinda hard for anyone to whine about the unjustified killing of a poor little puppy. That was one determined/deranged dog to keep going after the guy like that, even after the other guy is swiping a rake at him.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:00:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 8:05:29 AM EDT by SHIVAN458]
Originally Posted By shotar: Why didn't the cop just mace the poor beastie. After all, Dogs are people too and they have the same rights. That dog was someone's family member. He was just shot for protecting his brother.
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[sleep] You're such a patronizing prick. Meant in the nicest way possible, of course. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:01:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 8:02:54 AM EDT by Belfry_Express]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: No matter how "civilized" we become, you just never know when extreme, vicious violence will be necessary. Kudos to the guy with the rake--a true hero. I'm glad I have more than a rake to deal with such things. [:)]
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Would that be a 40 lb rake chambered in 50 BMG? [;)] We had some feral dogs in our neighborhood some years back. Animal control was worthless. Thank goodness dad had that 20 gage.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:13:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:13:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:22:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: My point of course is in reference to many other similar threads in which the authorities are demonized by certain members here based on the reporting of the press without any regard to the facts or realization that too few facts are actually presented to determine the correctness of the response.
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[lol] You're right, we should wait to hear more about this article to see if the facts are indeed facts. Newspapers and the press have been notorious to fuck up the stories lately. Despite the eyewitness intervention and the obviously injured ACO we can't be sure the ACO didn't antagonize the Rottie. [:D] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~ I have ALWAYS advocated [b]necessary[/b] force, ESPECIALLY in light of more than one dog. They feed off the fear of the other dogs and they feed off the fear of the victims.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:22:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 8:23:28 AM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By HKocher: Usually I'd prefer to be subdued with the tranquilizer dart first, hurts less that way!
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Okay.
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That wasn't an invitation or a challenge. [;)] I'm just saying that's one tough dog to take a 12 gauge to the shoulder and THEN 3 tranq darts to bring down.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:35:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: My point of course is in reference to many other similar threads in which the authorities are demonized by certain members here based on the reporting of the press without any regard to the facts or realization that too few facts are actually presented to determine the correctness of the response.
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I dont know. The video of that Tennessee cop blasting a beagle is pretty clear-cut to me. That dog didn't lay a paw on the cop. Any dog that attacks a person like in this case can be destroyed, and it looks like the cop did the right thing.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:48:57 AM EDT
Nobody is gonna complain about this shooting, it was a good shoot. Other dog shootings that we have complained about were not, if you can't see the difference then you fit the definition of JBT.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:05:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By shotar: My point of course is in reference to many other similar threads in which the authorities are demonized by certain members here based on the reporting of the press without any regard to the facts or realization that too few facts are actually presented to determine the correctness of the response.
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I dont know. The video of that Tennessee cop blasting a beagle is pretty clear-cut to me. That dog didn't lay a paw on the cop. Any dog that attacks a person like in this case can be destroyed, and it looks like the cop did the right thing.
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Good job shotar, way to make an agreeable thread in to a cop bash fest. Maybe YOU should leave well enough alone. Isn't it ironic that your "trolling" made this a shitty thread so fast??
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:45:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven: Any dog that attacks a person like in this case can be destroyed, and it looks like the cop did the right thing.
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The only debate is at what point do you destroy the dog? During the dogs initial charge, or do you wait until he has actualy bit you. Most people here seem to think you should wait until you have been bit. Which is alot like waiting for a robber to shoot you, before defending yourself.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:57:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By raven: Any dog that attacks a person like in this case can be destroyed, and it looks like the cop did the right thing.
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The only debate is at what point do you destroy the dog? During the dogs initial charge, or do you wait until he has actualy bit you. Most people here seem to think you should wait until you have been bit. Which is alot like waiting for a robber to shoot you, before defending yourself.
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It's nothing, AT ALL, like waiting for a robber to shoot you before defending yourself. That is quite simply the most asinine analogy I've seen in quite some time. In this case necessary force was used to subdue the threat. In the TN family dog shooting on film, you had NO IDEA what that dog was gonna do, but it appeared to me to be trying to get to the family members -- who were screaming and agitated -- most dogs will come to it's owner in those instances. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~ This ACO did something that Va. ACO/Game Warden's have been told not to do; DO NOT attempt to contain multiple canines while alone and unassisted. Pack mentality will put you in a world of trouble -- quickly. Let's just say it had been Citizen A who shot the dog...forget it was a cop in this case. It HAD to be done. The dog was unstoppable -- as witnessed by the injuries. Forget every other dog shooting case there was reported on this site, because none of them contained these circumstances.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:08:54 AM EDT
As a canine supremacist, I voiced my outrage at the previous 2 Po-leese canine shootings because they were rediculous cowboy bs. This was not in the same league at all. The Rott had proved viscious long before the Officer arrived. The dog owners should be prosecuted for "keeping a viscious dog in city limits" or whatever Kalifornistani ordinance they have on the books. If one's dog is capable of that kind of mayhem, it is their responsiblitiy to the dog, and the populace to take measures to see to it it never happens. If it does happen, owner is lible, poochie is Na-gogi.(or is Pa-gogi I get em confused, one is cat one is dog.)
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:21:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By HKocher: Usually I'd prefer to be subdued with the tranquilizer dart first, hurts less that way!
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Okay.
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That wasn't an invitation or a challenge. [;)] I'm just saying that's one tough dog to take a 12 gauge to the shoulder and THEN 3 tranq darts to bring down.
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Rotties ARE rather tough dogs.....I would know: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=3566[/img] She's only 75lbs and is tough as nails....but a real sweetheart all the same... Sounds like a good shoot...too bad though...it sometimes has to be done.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:21:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: Why didn't the cop just mace the poor beastie. After all, Dogs are people too and they have the same rights. That dog was someone's family member. He was just shot for protecting his brother.
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There you go.... trying to start another fight you can't finish...
Forget every other dog shooting case there was reported on this site, because none of them contained these circumstances.
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Well put. I wholeheartedly agree
As a canine supremacist, I voiced my outrage at the previous 2 Po-leese canine shootings because they were rediculous cowboy bs. This was not in the same league at all. The Rott had proved viscious long before the Officer arrived. The dog owners should be prosecuted for "keeping a viscious dog in city limits" or whatever Kalifornistani ordinance they have on the books. If one's dog is capable of that kind of mayhem, it is their responsiblitiy to the dog, and the populace to take measures to see to it it never happens. If it does happen, owner is lible, poochie is Na-gogi.(or is Pa-gogi I get em confused, one is cat one is dog.)
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another GOOD point! --RR
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 11:16:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 11:20:12 AM EDT by CR_OPSO]
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By raven: Any dog that attacks a person like in this case can be destroyed, and it looks like the cop did the right thing.
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The only debate is at what point do you destroy the dog? During the dogs initial charge, or do you wait until he has actualy bit you. Most people here seem to think you should wait until you have been bit. Which is alot like waiting for a robber to shoot you, before defending yourself.
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It's nothing, AT ALL, like waiting for a robber to shoot you before defending yourself. That is quite simply the most asinine analogy I've seen in quite some time. In this case necessary force was used to subdue the threat. In the TN family dog shooting on film, you had NO IDEA what that dog was gonna do, but it appeared to me to be trying to get to the family members -- who were screaming and agitated -- most dogs will come to it's owner in those instances. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~­~ This ACO did something that Va. ACO/Game Warden's have been told not to do; DO NOT attempt to contain multiple canines while alone and unassisted. Pack mentality will put you in a world of trouble -- quickly. Let's just say it had been Citizen A who shot the dog...forget it was a cop in this case. It HAD to be done. The dog was unstoppable -- as witnessed by the injuries. Forget every other dog shooting case there was reported on this site, because none of them contained these circumstances.
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I thought it was a fairly good analogy, myself (if you compare an unleashed, growling dog to a robber) - but I didn't immediately assume that he was directly referring to these 2 cases. I also thought it was a fair question that was unanswered. Does the cop have to be bloody before it's a good shoot? I am NOT saying that other shoots were justified and I'm sure there are "JBT's" out there that shoot dogs when they don't have to. If the ACO had shot the Rott as it approached him, would you still say, "good shoot"? Even if there were no witness - just a police report - and maybe a neighbor that stated the dogs were aggressive? CR
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 11:25:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 11:29:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: No matter how "civilized" we become, you just never know when extreme, vicious violence will be necessary. Kudos to the guy with the rake--a true hero. I'm glad I have more than a rake to deal with such things. [:)]
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So true BK. How can that be so crystal clear to most of us here and so foreign to many fellow Americans? How did we, as a nation, become so pussified? I am a dog lover and dog owner. Clean shoot on the Rott. Maiming or loss of human life would have resulted with out intervention. Why the hell doesn’t an animal control guy at least carry a knife? I am just full of good questions today…
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 11:32:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:21:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CR_OPSO: If the ACO had shot the Rott as it approached him, would you still say, "good shoot"? Even if there were no witness - just a police report - and maybe a neighbor that stated the dogs were aggressive? CR
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That's the $1,000,000.00 question, and even police policy makers cannot come to an agreement.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:35:32 PM EDT
I guess Va. is on the cutting edge then. An ACO/Game Warden may not dispatch an animal without consent from the supervisor on duty. If they believe the situation to be dangerous they must call in LEO backup -- we all know what kind of protocol is in place for most PD's. [;D]
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