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Posted: 7/3/2003 6:57:48 AM EDT
[img]http://www.dfw.com/images/dfw/startelegram/news/577046-198928.jpg[/img] Posted on Wed, Jun. 25, 2003 Store clerk cleared in shooting By Peyton D. Woodson Star-Telegram Staff Writer FORT WORTH - No criminal charges will be filed against the convenience store clerk who shot an undercover police officer he mistook for a robber as she tried to arrest a suspected drug dealer, police said. A Tarrant County grand jury found that Bao Nguyen's shooting of officer Lisa Ramsey at an east side convenience store in January was an accident and that no criminal conduct occurred, a police statement said. The shooting left Ramsey, 40, paralyzed below the middle of her abdomen. A police internal review found that the officers involved in the drug buy followed departmental procedures. However, several changes in undercover narcotics police work have been implemented since the shooting, including a ban on face masks in certain environments and a requirement for officers to wear bullet-proof vests. "What we were looking at was if anyone was criminally at fault," Police Chief Ralph Mendoza said. "I agree it's just a tragedy. There was no criminal intent on the part of the shooter." On the afternoon of Jan. 2, undercover narcotics officers purchased drugs from a man standing on a street corner near the E-Z Food Store at 968 E. Elmwood Ave. The suspect, later identified as James Crenshaw, then entered the convenience store. Ramsey and other officers were entering the store to arrest Crenshaw when Nguyen, the son of the store's owner, mistook Ramsey for a robber and shot her. Ramsey was wearing a black cloth mask and a vest with a Fort Worth Police Department badge on the front and the word "police" on the back. Nguyen said Ramsey never identified herself as a police officer as she entered the store. He also said he did not see any police insignia on the officer's raid jacket -- only a "dark figure" with a gun -- when he pulled his .380-caliber handgun and fired once. The bullet hit Ramsey's armpit and traveled to her spine. She was not wearing body armor, but officers said a bullet-proof vest could not have protected her because of the wound's location. Crenshaw, 27, later admitted selling a $20 rock of crack cocaine to the undercover officers. He was arrested and faces a charge of delivery of a controlled substance of less than one gram, a state jail felony. "I think officer Ramsey performed outstandingly," Mendoza said. "She made the right decision in my opinion. An officer goes where the criminal is at. If she hesitated they may have ended up in a hostage situation." Officers in such situations, he said, "can't second-guess themselves." Since the shooting, the department has implemented the following changes for undercover narcotics officers: • Officers can only wear black cloth masks known as balaclavas in controlled situations where all concerned parties are aware of a police presence. The masks must be clearly marked with the word "police" stitched on the front and back in white lettering. • Officers must wear bullet-proof vests and be clearly identifiable as police when executing search warrants, making arrests after drug buys and in other situations where an arrest is anticipated. • Officers' outer vests have been updated to make the word "police" more visible on the front and back. A badge insignia has also been placed above the left breast and a police patch above the right. "What we're trying to do is ensure that individuals know who we are," Mendoza said. "We're trying to make ourselves as visible as possible so we don't end up getting injured or having to injure someone else. But the reality is, in our line of work you can't eliminate all the risks. You try to minimize them." Ramsey has said she doesn't hold any ill will toward Nguyen. She called the shooting a "freak deal." She has said she didn't see anything wrong with the way the narcotics unit conducts drug stings. And although she believes that the unit could use more manpower, she said more officers on the scene that night would probably not have prevented her shooting.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:06:17 AM EDT
I'll bet the clerk feels horrible, too. Sorry to hear she's paralyzed... [:(]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:06:47 AM EDT
the following changes for undercover narcotics officers:
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Good. The local cops haven't learned yet that they should clearly identify themselves. In the few raids I've seen, the officers wore blue jeans, black undershirts, and black vests all without logos. You obviously can't see a badge when it's in a guy's pocket. Lack of identification is going to get one of the officers killed.z
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:18:17 AM EDT
I remember this... Glad to hear no charges... the guy was right to shoot... I'm glad to hear the office is alive... the paralysis is a tragedy, tho. If I recall, too, the gun used was a .380. Must be enough gun to cause damage, huh?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:20:05 AM EDT
Maybe they should have taken him down, OUTSIDE... Shop owners are a jumpy bunch, especially Asian ones. I'm sorry to here she had to be paralyzed for the department to wake up...I'm also sorry to hear that they still authorize masks.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:20:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:24:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q: If I recall, too, the gun used was a .380. Must be enough gun to cause damage, huh?
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in its life.
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so you wouldn't cry if you got shot with a .380? [;)] I think the bullet entered the officer's side, probably in the soft area. Probably did get a lucky shot. Still. Noone wants to get shot by ANYTHING.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:30:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom:
the following changes for undercover narcotics officers:
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Good. The local cops haven't learned yet that they should clearly identify themselves. In the few raids I've seen, the officers wore blue jeans, black undershirts, and black vests all without logos. You obviously can't see a badge when it's in a guy's pocket. Lack of identification is going to get one of the officers killed.z
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Yeah, this helps, but it doesn't solve the problem that some people (like me) are not going to instinctively believe that a masked, heavily armed man has my best interests in mind, regardless of what he has written on his clothing. I mean "POLICE", gee, that's a tough one to stitch on your clothes.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:32:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:43:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:46:05 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: [url]Ramsey was wearing a black cloth mask and a vest with a Fort Worth Police Department badge on the front and the word "police" on the back. Nguyen said Ramsey never identified herself as a police officer as she entered the store. He also said he did not see any police insignia on the officer's raid jacket -- only a "dark figure" with a gun
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And right there is the problem. It is a shame this officer was shot because her department likes to play "ninja." The clerk is gonna have to live with this the rest of his life and the officer is lucky she is alive. There are DAMN FEW REASONS for anyone to wear a mask. ESPECIALLY in law enforcement. If she had run in wearing a recognized uniform with her gun drawn, she probably would NOT have been shot. The recognized uniform is how we quickly identify friend from foe. Also raid shirts are becoming way too common. These are too easily obtained or faked. There was a time when police wore distinctive uniforms. Any goober in blue jeans and a black T shirt with the word POLICE on it can now pose effectively. They do this all the time down here on home invasions. The couple seconds of hesitation on the homeowners part "Oh hey what are the cops here?" is all they need to keep you from getting to a gun to defend your family and home. Next thing you know you are being tortured in your bathroom for 4 hours for the combination to your safe. Then they usually kill you and your entire family.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:44:21 AM EDT
Sick sad situation. Hopefully the officer will regain movement and hopefully the store clerk will forgive himself one day.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:27:56 AM EDT
It is damn sick.. She lost use of her legs over a 20 dollar piece of crack. It was bound to happen sooner or later.All this black hooded crap is gonna get someone killed. I inderstand the use of a hood in entries to protect the face and such, but to use on to bust a guy over a piece of crack? Is anonymity that important?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:54:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: [url]A Tarrant County grand jury found that Bao Nguyen's shooting of officer Lisa Ramsey at an east side convenience store in January was an accident
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Just becuase it wasnt criminal doesnt mean it was an "accident". Based on what the clerck knew at the time it was a lawfull deliberate shooting, not an accident. This is a good example why CCW holders, and off duty cops, should resist the urge to jump into a violent situation they know nothing about.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 10:57:30 AM EDT
Steyr Aug and AR15Fan, well done. You guys covered all the bases. Nothing more for me to say.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 11:04:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 11:11:56 AM EDT by SHIVAN458]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: [url]A Tarrant County grand jury found that Bao Nguyen's shooting of officer Lisa Ramsey at an east side convenience store in January was an accident
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This is a good example why CCW holders, and off duty cops, should resist the urge to jump into a violent situation they know nothing about.
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But don't you advocate lethal force upon presentation of a [b]perceived[/b] threat?? Or is that only in instances where canines are involved? Please clarify...
Originally Posted By AR15fan: The only debate is at what point do you destroy the dog? During the dogs initial charge, or do you wait until he has actualy bit you. Most people here seem to think you should wait until you have been bit. Which is alot like waiting for a robber to shoot you, before defending yourself.
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So if the clerk had waited to shoot, it would have been directly in contradiction of your motives in this other thread. Which is it, ociffer?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:26:36 PM EDT
There is a world of duifference between reacting to a percieved threat directed at you, versus racing to the scene of a violent encounter you know nothing about, and butting in. The clerk reacted properly, with trajic results. I'm mearly cautioning those who carry a gun all the time, to not leap into situations they know nothing about. That's advice I follow off duty myself.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:24:26 PM EDT
Over the years I have seen reported MANY instances of criminals shouting "POLICE!" as they invade a home, swarm around a car, etc. That gave them the needed time for the good guy to hesitate and be put in harm's way. No, we can't have confusion, and wearing ski masks (it's a damned SKI MASK, not a balaclava!) and waving a gun is a good way to get shot.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:10:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: [url]A Tarrant County grand jury found that Bao Nguyen's shooting of officer Lisa Ramsey at an east side convenience store in January was an accident
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Just becuase it wasnt criminal doesnt mean it was an "accident". Based on what the clerck knew at the time it was a lawfull deliberate shooting, not an accident. This is a good example why CCW holders, and off duty cops, should resist the urge to jump into a violent situation they know nothing about.
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People wearing ski masks carrying guns ran into his store...looks like the violent situation jumped to him! Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint? I have, it's not fun [shock]
Link Posted: 7/4/2003 12:02:31 AM EDT
Even the Gestapo didn't wear masks.
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