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Posted: 4/30/2001 10:38:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 10:40:56 PM EDT by mk1iii]
[IMG]http://www.zing.com/picture/pc61cdae53494a0b7913fb8ac662841b0/fe921bf9.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.zing.com/picture/pa6e9562294be7ecb7dcbedd11c52392c/fe921bf0.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.zing.com/picture/pe8b35ca8f91330999750f8d60cd53ed7/fe921be9.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.zing.com/picture/pb08e5b4b80ec0c6a68de0178fd6890a9/fe921be5.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.zing.com/picture/p795ad59c691d80944add8d6856ad47a6/fe921be3.jpg[/IMG] Click [URL]www.idrive.com/mk1iii/files/Shared/[/URL] for the slideshow. Then click on Russian file. I tried everything to have it come up automatically and couldn't do it. I think the URL is too long
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:48:03 PM EDT
Thats a shame for those guys... Too bad that APC wasn't filled with people I don't like....... (rosie)(james carville)(the clintons)(james carville)(james carville)(rosie)(james carville) (rosie)........ Did I leave anyone out ??? [:)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:50:19 PM EDT
Dam, that is ugly. I feel bad for those guys - that is one devastating explosion! I wonder if it was detonated using a remote firing mechanism? I assume those responsible for the mine, are taking the pictures.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:55:12 PM EDT
I know it is a shame about those Russian soliders. Just think, the ones who laid the mine, likely was Chechyniens (sp? way off I know) might have even been the ones that hung around to film it. Hard way to go out. I would have preferred to walk behind the APC and take my chances with the snipers instead of being blown to tiny bits like that.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 10:57:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 10:56:44 PM EDT by HANGFIRE]
Are those bodies in the air in frames 3 and 4?
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 11:02:01 PM EDT
Sure are. Look at the slide show url I posted. Many body parts can be seen. BTW Hangfire [-!-!-] for last week. [sex]
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 12:28:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2001 12:27:32 AM EDT by prk]
When I tried it it was taking a long time and it looked like it was downloading / installing idrive to my computer which nothing was said about. So I canceled. I have enough crap already, & I don't like these sites that install new stuff on the machine. [red][size=4]P.R.K.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 10:49:04 AM EDT
Holy Sheet! that is hardcore. I count 5 bodies airborne, and an AK-47 is clearly visible on the right side of the flying bodies pic.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 10:54:40 AM EDT
wow that had to hurt!!
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 10:57:03 AM EDT
Ooooohhhh.....that's gonna leave a mark.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 10:57:52 AM EDT
More likely an AK-74, since these are Russian troops. Feel bad for them.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:13:03 AM EDT
Luckily the Russians can't afford to fill the tanks of their APC full so there was no gas to catch fire after the explosion. The men didn't have to burn. Where were they at?
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:23:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:43:27 AM EDT
I'm guessing somebody pissed somebody else off. And I hate to be hard core on this, but the Russian gov't has a history of exporting tyranny all over the world, not to mention repressing their own people. Its a shame that THESE guys had to pay the price, but I think this is just a case of the chickens coming home to roost. Remember Afghanitan where Russian doll bombs maimed children??? Toush $#!t, ruskies. Time to pay the piper for what your gov't is all about. Don't like that??MOVE, and quit taking Commie gov't pay as soldiers.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 11:53:26 AM EDT
Interesting pictures. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 12:05:14 PM EDT
Big explosion, larger than a standard Anti-tank mine? More like a home-brew device.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 12:14:10 PM EDT
Ow. Bad for the resale value on the BTR
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:13:32 PM EDT
When I was in the navy we were in the breifing room waiting for Sloan to show up as usual, and had the TV turned to the news. A camera man had accompanied a group of Phillippine rebels on Mindinau, who set up an ambush. These guys machinegunned a couple trucks filled with our allies' soldiers, stole their weapons and vanished within 30 seconds or so. I don't think there was a guy in the room who would not carry out a summary execution of that camera crew.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:13:53 PM EDT
Ouch... Next time, think about a MBT with a mine plow or rollers. Make sure it is buttoned up tight too... Too late for those guys though.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:18:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pogo: I don't think there was a guy in the room who would not carry out a summary execution of that camera crew.
View Quote
I was wondering the same thing (I think.) How did it just happen that there was a dude with a TV camera WAAYYY out in the wilderness, that just happened to be filming a APC going over a mine?? There is more to the story here.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 1:58:35 PM EDT
I think it's a miniature model. 1-there's no tire tracks 2-no exhaust 3-the "bodies" are all in the standard model poses, even while in the air. 4-no dust kick-up during or after the explosion. Just my opinion
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:51:44 PM EDT
No, it's real all right. I was sent this from a guy at work who's father in is the military. The whole distribution list before me was all active service members.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:58:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 8:24:57 PM EDT
It is likely the real thing. I found a chechen site a few months ago with alot of combat footage. Gruesome stuff. These guys like to film ambushes. Americans in Vietnam used to ride on the top of their vehicles to prevent being emmolated when the thing went over a mine. I guess the guys would rather take chances with a sniper than with a mine under their feet. In the final months of WW2, in some cases Soviet tankers were ordered not to latch their hatches. If a tank got hit by a mine or a panzerfaust, accomanying infantry could get the poor SOB's out. I understand the screams of the crew were worse than the Germans could dish out to the infantry.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 8:28:15 PM EDT
Firstly, Ow! Second, obviously it's from a video, so you know there are some Chechans laughing their asses off as these poor commie(formerly) bastards die an airborne death! I'd give most of them 8.2 to 9.3. Those flips have a very high difficulty rating! Not too many points for the landings tho'
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:04:10 AM EDT
The horror of war. War is hell.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 6:17:09 AM EDT
garandman, maybe what the reds did in Afghanistan was wrong but these new SOB's they're fighting deserve everything they get. They are the leading edge if the new Islamic Jihad. Trying to route out anyone who isnt muslim from the middle east to creat a path straight to europe. Those sick f*%#kers even videotaped themselves playing soccer with the head of one of their kidnap victims who couldnt raise enough money to be freed. I've seen enough of their videos to know they need to be wiped out. Unfortunately, only the russkies are the only ones stopping them. Also, their "brethren" in Albania just mutilated 8 macedonian cops last weekend.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 6:22:52 AM EDT
Kingfish - I look at it a bit differently. This "new Islamic Jihad" is simply a group of people who ACTUALLY DO what we all claim we would do to a repressive gov't in a SHTF scenario. We talk a good game - they PLAY a good game. And if they use a head for their soccer game, that ain't nothin' compared to blowing up chidren by using toys to bait them to the bombs. Islamics are a group of people wil;ling to die for their homeland, and for what they believe. On that level, I admire them. And while we could improve on the tactics used, war has ALWAYS been a dirty business. Based solely on their goals and motivations (or at leat my knowledge of the) I say "Go for it." this is all just my opinion. i don't claim to know all the facts, but that is how it looks from here. thanks for the comments.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 6:39:18 AM EDT
Garandman, I see your points. Although I agree with some of them, I can't feel sorry for those Jihad guys knowing Osama Bin Laden is one of their biggest supporters. Since the Reds went under, they have put world domination on the back burner. The guys they are fighting now, tried to invade dagestan a couple years ago and set up Islamic rule. Its a lot more than some good 'ol boys protecting their farmland. A lot of the guys who get kidnapped and beheaded arent even russians, many work for foriegn corporations.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 3:22:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2001 3:26:02 PM EDT by Ticonderoga]
Originally Posted By crumabn: I think it's a miniature model. 1-there's no tire tracks 2-no exhaust 3-the "bodies" are all in the standard model poses, even while in the air. 4-no dust kick-up during or after the explosion. Just my opinion
View Quote
Not real huh? Does this Ruski's throat look intact to you? [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/uluskert7.jpg[/img] Do these dead Chechyn civilians look like they are playing a game of hide'n'seek, or do you suppose they are really dead? [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/mass3.jpg[/img] I wonder if this guy forgot to shave, or did that Russian napalm take his face off? [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/mass4.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 3:39:01 PM EDT
For those of you that don't follow the war in Chechyna, the Russians are not saints. They regularly execute prisoners, rape civilians, bomb civilians, execute small villages, torture, etc. It's no fun and games. Those dead guys flying off that BMP are no saints. At least the Chechyns are good enough to take a good photo of the men before they execute them, this poor bastard was only 21 when he faced the firing squad: [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/shatoipris3.jpg[/img] Not real? Pahleese. Go to [url]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/[/url] and look at streaming video of Russian columns getting shot up, Ruskies getting blasted, exectued, etc. The original frames in this string are running video. When you watch the actual video(s), you see much much more. And by the way, those are war correspondants, Chechyn as they may be. BTW, sorry but it looks like the streaming video is down a while, check back from time to time. Warning, the qoqaz video is some of the most graphic and disturbing video I've seen since "Faces of Death." Yeah, sometimes when my truck breaks down and catches fire, I pull over to take a nap: [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/eidopruss.jpg[/img] I think some of you on this board live a sheltered life. Try not to lose your head in the heat of the battle: [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/db4.jpg[/img] Before I get off my soapbox, I'll have to give the Chechyn war correspondants credit, they appear to report BOTH sides of the war casualties, unlike the Russians that always cry victory but can't seem to explain all the photos of their dead troops. Here is a dead Jihad fighter posted by his own troops: [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/shaheed7.jpg[/img] Four of these "terrorists" were included in the official Russian body count: [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/child4.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 3:41:31 PM EDT
If you watch the slide show on the last three frames it looks like who ever set the mine sent in a finishing touch to make sure they were finished. Looked real to me. I think James Cameron(sp)? would be impressed if it is not real.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 3:54:32 PM EDT
Kingfish-- I am not siding with the Chechen muslims, but I have heard a viewpoint that runs counter to the belief that the Chechen rebels are part of a sinister "Islamic Jihad." A French correspondent spent a considerable amount of time in Chechnya posing as a Chechen civilian. She reported seeing: 1) a population that was horribly sick of the whole conflict. 2) no signs of some sort of greater Islamic movement. I am sure that both sides are doing a fine job of butchering each other, just like Palestine vs. Israel, IRA vs. Provos/Brit Army, and all the other conflicts. I wouldn't care to assign blame in a territorial dispute; after the first round of violence, things are very messy. All dogs look black in the night.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 5:34:19 PM EDT
Sorry Usttulina, the Jihad in Chechyna is a HOLY WAR. Make no mistake about it, go to my link, that is the actual news site of the Chechyn uprising. You might notice that every paragraph and picture is interlaced with verses from the Quoran. They even quote a verse that gives them the "right" to put the Russian infidels to the firing squad. It is also an INTERNATIONAL Jihad. Those guys with long beards aren't all Chechyn. Notice the memorial to one dead brother, he is from Kuwait. They have fighters from Syria, Libya, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. I've read many of the reports done by Western reporters and the Russians carry out MASS atrocities against the civilians. I've read these in CNN, BBC, AP, etc. Russian commanders interviewed call it "Total War." They consider the whole of chechyna enemy and execute and torture at will. After torturing and exocuting Chechyn Jihad fighters, the Chech commanders lined 7 Ruskies up and exocuted them, and you can actually watch it on the website (when the video is up and running). I guess it's tit for tat. I don't root for either side. The Russians have no business there. The Chechyn rebels will destroy the country and oppress the people just as the Taliban has done in Afghanistan. I just think that EVERYONE should get a good look at REAL UNEDITED war footage to realize how terrible war is. After seeing the stuff on that site, I pray we never have another Civil War.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 6:27:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2001 6:31:57 PM EDT by MG_ME]
[b]I think some of you on this board live a sheltered life.[/b] excatly! what is stated above. [img]http://www.qoqaz.co.za/images/ shatoipris3.jpg[/img] How MANY of you would be this guy for your right to keep your weapons when they come for them; or if they come for them? ive talked with my relatives from the army my uncle(a lifer) sayed there using stress cards now! WTF! this guy above had no time out for stress. ive seen two guys from the military went awol skipped out because they were stressed out(well they said they could not do what they want to) fuck do you honistly believe we could fight china? well i know of alot of other's on top of it is just about screwy. they came back struttung there shit like there bad tough soldier's but they QUIT!!!!! P.S. i was in the army medacally kicked out! because of a fire and hospitalization!
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 7:20:59 PM EDT
I don't know why, but I have a feeling that the US and Russia will be strong allies in the next world conflict. The current US policy around the world makes a lot of enemies, but at the same time most of it is necessary to keep the current peace. I don't think nukes will ever be used again unless a terrorist or rogue nation uses one. I think future wars will be just as long and bloody as ever, but neither side will have the balls use nukes and risk all out nuclear war. I think Russia/US vs. China/India could be a very possible future world war.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 7:57:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the clarification Ticonderoga-- sounds like at least some (or all! ) of the Chechens are full-blown fundamentalists. And if that's the case, I guess the Russians could make an argument for not wanting that to cascade into more countries in that region. Y'know what? I am sure am glad I'm in the US of A rather than some breakaway "province" (ie Tibet or Taiwan other parts of China) or former USSR republic. That sure would suck. Yeah America's got a lot of issues. But at least we are still argueing about them in public rather than slaughtering each other. At least we still have some balance of industry, money and environment left. I'm not much of a chest thumping patriot, but HERE'S TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 8:30:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: they PLAY a good game.
View Quote
I would like to think that that is precisely the difference between me and those sick bastards. I would never put my self in a situation where I would have to take a hostage, I would certaintly never murder anyone, and I definately would never remove his/her head and kick it around like a demented f#$%. I can't even imagine how someone motivates himself to do that. Perhaps that just goes to show the difference between their situation and mine. I think their situtation is far more desperate than ours, which has led them to drastic measures. Nevertheless, as far as "playing a good game" goes, I don't think anyone here would ever go as far as using someone's head for anything other than intellectual stimulation...for the time being.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 4:18:15 PM EDT
SLT223, you are right, I could never bring myself to play with body parts. But execute a prisoner? torture? sure I could do that. As sick as watching the video of that war made me, and how much it turned me against ever wanting to see that, picture yourself in this situation. An Army invades your hometown. Kills your brother's and fathers by hanging and slicing open their guts. Then your mother is gang raped and her head cut off. Your sister is carried off and raped for a month by an entire regiment before she "disapears" to never be seen again. Your apartment building is leveled by bombs killing almost everyone you know, your dog is shot, your car stolen. You escape with your wife and child and hide them in the hills. You fight the attackers and while out on a mission, you return to your base to find your infant slaughtered by an AK bayonet and your wife raped and slaughtered. Let's say you catch a few soldiers from the unit that did this and some of your villagers point them out as the men that killed your wife. What would you do? I would torture them on video and publish it on the internet to let all those from Russia know that this is the hell that they are sending their sons into.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:51:20 PM EDT
War is hell. In the heat of the battle, I will surely do whatever necessary. However after it is all over and still alive, I probably will wonder what the hell I just did and how many people I had killed. This experience will become part of me right or wrong. I don't really know where the cycle of violence stops. They killed us, in return we kill them too. There's consequence in all actions for what we did or did not do. Only a person in that situation can answer and then have to live w/ it. Some lived their lives as if nothing happend, some enjoyed it and some committed suicide for the shame of their actions. Seeing the pictures, I feel really bad for those soldiers, their families and friends. I am sure they do want to have good and happy lives just like us here in the US. But the opportunity do not exist for them. The average annual salary of russian family is less than $200 a year, not even enough for airplane ticket. Of course, russian soldiers do face field execution by their commanders if they refuse to comply w/ the order and most 18 yrs old kids do not have an option to just not serve. Being bombed, hunted, having family and all belonging destroyed like Chechen people also are not my things either. All I can say is "Peace for both sides".
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 7:14:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: "that ain't nothin' compared to blowing up chidren by using toys to bait them to the bombs." Gee, Garandman! I think you've swallowed a bit TOO much propaganda! Booby-trapped dolls and toys used by the Soviets in Afghanistan? Didn't happen! Maybe you can give us some documentation (or at least a source) for this claim?!! Frame #4 of original post is faked! Show this frame to someone familiar with photography and explosives! And the Chechens aren't the "Freedom Fighters" the media has brainwashed you into thinking. A "kinder gentler Taliban?" Don't think so! DaMan
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 7:48:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2001 7:51:52 PM EDT by DaMan]
[url]http://www.qoqaz.net[/url] DaMan PS - Aren't these Chechan "Freedom Fighters" some cool dudes?
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 8:09:08 PM EDT
DaMan-- I never heard of outright toys being booby-trapped in Afghanistan, and even if the Soviets did that kind of shit, it wouldn't make it ethical to return the favor. However, the Soviets did distribute a couple of very compact mines for delivery via helicopter, similar to the BLU-44 Dragontooth mine that the US military has used. These were small enough to attract attention of kids I imagine. Anyway, feel free to correct if I am wrong on this one. Regards Ustulina
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 10:20:23 PM EDT
I remeber back when I was in High School, I had a subscription to SOF. The SOF writer went to Afghanistan and stayed for 3 months, got some amazing photos of Russian Tank columns being shot up. Not only did the writer come across brightly colored red and yellow toy trucks, but the Afghan fighters blew some up, and dismantled some for him to view. He took pics and posted them in the magazine. Let me guess, you know more about it than he did?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 12:25:33 AM EDT
I forget that SOF correspondant's name, but I met him before he was killed over there. The guy was not that old, maybe 28 or so. No matter what your inclinations might be, that war is one nasty one. Them people don't know the meaning of fighting clean. It is a very interesting clinical study in modern warfare. As to the mine, it was not a regular AT mine but some sort of larger bomb. Most likely a cratering charge. A full on cratering charge will turn an M1 Abrams into a steel canoe. Europe has a lot to fear from a modern Jihad. Much of the Arab hatred for Jews is more because so many Jews are of white European descent than religious differences. Don't forget that the Serbs are still pissed about the Moslem hordes rolling through their turf 500 years ago and they did make it all the way to Vienna. The Christian Armenians have some bad memories of Islamic rule too and they have taken their sentiments to much of the rest of Eastern Europe, including Russia.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 3:48:40 AM EDT
Ustilina, you are exactly right. The rumor got started when the Soviets used the "squishy" anti-personel mines (forget their actual military designation). These looked like giant olive drab whirlyseeds (the ones that fall from oaks trees). They were NOT designed to look like toys or target children. They were designed to be air dropped with their half propeller design slowing them down and stabilizing them for employment. The rumor about "toys" was started when some Afghan children got curious and tried to pick them up. Children were also injured by unexploded bomblets from our cluster bombs used in Kosovo. They thought they looked like coke cans or something to play with. Were WE targeting children? Don't think so! DaMan
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 4:58:19 AM EDT
All I can tell ya about the Afghanistan "toy mine" situation is that I SAW children with their arms blown off. Unless the TV lied to me [;)] But in reality, it doesn't matter. The Russians are getting their just desserts for MILLIONS of their own people, and OTHER nations, that they have FORCED into slavery and servitude. Oh, BTW, I am of Russian ancestry.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:09:45 AM EDT
Thanks for the chuckle, All of the armchair generals gasping in horror at the sight of a well executed ambush then pontificating about the deserved fate of the ambushers. Many of the posts sprinkled with cliches like "war is hell". Your lives are so far removed and insulated from the harsh realities of the the impostion or defense of ideals by force, kind of laughable. I hope that this same revulsion leads to the unification of the good ol' USA when the chinese throw in the first pitch of our next game.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 2:46:14 PM EDT
Earlychowrecruit, how right you are. To me war was what I always saw on John Wayne or Oliver Stone movies. Seeing a REAL ambush in moving pictures brought such horror to me that I would be willing to do almost anything to avoid bringing such to our own country. Propellor mines or not, I saw pics of bright RED AND YELLOW Tonka type trucks with explosives and a trip fuse attatched to them.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 2:59:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 5:22:49 PM EDT
Ticonderoga, I have no doubt that you saw booby-trapped yellow and red Tonka trucks pictured in SOF. I just wonder WHO it was that "boobytrapped" these toys for the SOF "photo op"??!! DaMan
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