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Posted: 6/25/2003 10:40:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 5:22:34 PM EDT by u-baddog]
We all have watched in horror while the police chase a criminal who decides he doesnt want a ticket or DUI, even a bank robber. High speeds, running light and stop signs until the cops back off because its unsafe. I am sick and tried or criminals reckless disregard for anyone when they run from the police. I think a 12 gauge or a .308 could be used to end some of these and it would give the next asshole a little to think about. [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:54:25 AM EDT
Bad-dog, don't do it. The cops will be SOOOO pissed if you shoot a guy that they are chasing! [%|]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 11:06:47 AM EDT
The big problem with doing that is that the car driven by the perp instantly becomes an unguided missile the moment he's taken out. Unless the chase is happening in a remote area with no one around, the odds of civilian casualties from such move are far too high to take the risk. A better option would be to equip every car with a remote kill system the police could use to shut the car down safely. But do we really want to give anyone in authority that kind of power?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 11:16:31 AM EDT
I think just about every police crusier in FL has a set of stop sticks in the trunk. If they are able to isolate the vehicle, they puts those out in the road and end the chase. If that doesn't work then I suggest a TOW missle.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:17:07 PM EDT
Hmmmm... Maybe a capacitance discharge EMP generator. Probably build one with parts from Radio Shack. Then I could zap the engine control modules of people who cut me off & do other stupid crap. How about it- any electrical engineers out there? [;)]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:26:11 PM EDT
how about mounting a big electromagnet on a helicopter. fly down and pick the jack ass up.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:35:51 PM EDT
Pursuits are a hot button issue right now. Frankly, no one has found the right solution. You have to balance enforcing the law, and apprehending suspects, with public safety. Which is more dangerous, letting a crook go free, or pursuing him on the public roadways? The problem with a policy of not pursueing, is you encourage high speed driving. If the crook knows you wont follow, then he will always run. we had a policy of not pursuing motercycles. A local crook knew this. so he did all his crime on his motorcycle. He victimized several people a day, for MONTHS, always exscaping the scen on his sport bike. Finally one officer said fvck the no pursuit policy, and rammed him. The report read something like "I was following the suspect when for an unknown reason he lost control of his motorcycle and crashed into my patrol car..." Hopefully the officer doesnt get punished too severly.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 12:54:30 PM EDT
i got it! pull up along side and throw in a die grenade. then put up a reward on crime stoppers for someone that is purple!
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 1:00:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EWTHeckman: The big problem with doing that is that the car driven by the perp instantly becomes an unguided missile the moment he's taken out.
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Hmm... A thermonuclear device would stop the car instantaneously. [;D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 1:08:01 PM EDT
eemm.. what about a high caliber round to go straight through the cylinder block and sieze up the engine? Fired from a helicopter.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 1:23:07 PM EDT
IMO, except in special circumstances, shooting at a speeding vehicle would cause more problems than it would solve. The remote kill system, activated by a laser in the cop car, was on the news a few months back, but criminals would be able to purchase the same thing off the internet seconds after your car was equipped with the sensor panel. Focused EMP is a ways beyond us now. Imagine sweeping a hospital. This will get me flamed, but: Why are cars sold for use in the US set up to go faster than 70 mph? I understand that race tracks do exist, but 99.9999999% of vehicles do not race. The stolen BMW or Caddy Escalade that goes 150 mph when driven by a fifteen year old thief is a problem that does not need to exist.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 1:32:33 PM EDT
I think they should call in a Spectre Gunship![:D] BigDozer66
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 1:39:12 PM EDT
Stopping the engine causes loss of power brakes and power steering. Doing this at high speed can cause the vehicle to become a ballistic missile.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 2:14:37 PM EDT
Why do we sell gasoline to the public? I mean you could get gallons of the stuff, and poison waterways, and blow stuff up, and pour it on the children, and....
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 2:16:34 PM EDT
Ngog- for the same reason that a .50 cal, or an AR exist: Because people want them, and the freedom to buy them is what makes life worth living. !duh!
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 2:35:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DnPRK: Stopping the engine causes loss of power brakes and power steering. Doing this at high speed can cause the vehicle to become a ballistic missile.
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Wouldn't that be a missle without an engine????? I saw a 'car taser' that was launched from a pursueing car and shorts or grounds out the fleeing car. It was propelled by model rocket motors. I guess you could also do a hand launched variation. Or just shoot the little mofo's after 2 warnings.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 2:49:45 PM EDT
peekay/BillofRights, Guns and gas have many legal uses. Guns also have mention in BOR. There is no logical connection between limiting mph and banning firearms. Vehicles that go over 70 mph have no use, legal or otherwise, to the majority of the buying public. At the very least, I would like to see the option made available. It would allow the designers to concentrate on maximizing efficiency in the 0-70 mph range without having to cater to the car magazine's reviewers.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:09:35 PM EDT
70 is not *fast*! Oh hell, I do 70 all day long on the freeways, often speeding up to 80 or 85 on occasion, as the need arises. Now 90, *that's* too fast! [;d]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:40:50 PM EDT
"peekay/BillofRights, Guns and gas have many legal uses. Guns also have mention in BOR. There is no logical connection between limiting mph and banning firearms. Vehicles that go over 70 mph have no use, legal or otherwise, to the majority of the buying public. At the very least, I would like to see the option made available. It would allow the designers to concentrate on maximizing efficiency in the 0-70 mph range without having to cater to the car magazine's reviewers. " Well, i'm just glad you don't make any important decisions.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 3:41:44 PM EDT
70MPH is too fast and represents a danger to the public. What we need is to implement an Assault Vehicle Ban immediately. Post ban vechicles that can drive over 70 will only be allowed two "evil" features. "Evil" features will include spoilers, bug shields, cell phone antennas, etc. and whatever else we decide is bad. We all know that these features encourage people to drive too fast and cause road rage. Pre-Ban vehicles will be granfathered until we decide that they are too much of a public nusance and ban them as well...
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:07:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 5:23:23 PM EDT by u-baddog]
If we stop the engine by shooting it or EMP it becomes a unguided missile, I dont think a unguided missile is better than a dumbass guided missile, do you ? If he cant go any farther we could limit his damage to others. I am not talking engine block I am talking judge, jury and executioner. Run from the law and BANG from a helicopter or a spectra, a sea wiz on the mall roof. High speed chase means you die. Its all on tape so the P&P should be able to ok it use. SOP if you bolt and we got it on tape BYE BYE The motorcycle NO pursuit policy only enforces the idea of " I can do it if I can get away" We need to take away the hope, the I think I can, I think I can, from criminals. What worrys me is shot placement, I hate to hurt any innocents. I think we have all watched on tv an officer run up to the car and have the car drive off AGAIN.This is how it should work BANG BANG as the officer approaches the car if it pauses after the OK is handed down. It sucks to even thing like this but I am sick and tried of stupid people killing others over a freaking stolen car or even worse a DUI.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:19:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:30:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng: Vehicles that go over 70 mph have no use, legal or otherwise, to the majority of the buying public. At the very least, I would like to see the option made available. It would allow the designers to concentrate on maximizing efficiency in the 0-70 mph range without having to cater to the car magazine's reviewers.
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Posted Speed in Nevada is 75 mph. Just for your info.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:31:03 PM EDT
What is that favorite response? A pulse laser in the 40 mega watt range?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:34:10 PM EDT
All vehicles should have 55mph regulators in them.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:04:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 6:07:11 PM EDT by gunman0]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: we had a policy of not pursuing motercycles. A local crook knew this. so he did all his crime on his motorcycle. He victimized several people a day, for MONTHS, always exscaping the scen on his sport bike. Finally one officer said fvck the no pursuit policy, and rammed him. The report read something like "I was following the suspect when for an unknown reason he lost control of his motorcycle and crashed into my patrol car..." Hopefully the officer doesnt get punished too severly.
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And your department couldn't spare or borrow/rent a helicopter for the few minutes needed to track this guy to wherever he stops even though he was robbing several people a day for months? That's my biggest complaint when I see car chases on the news. If a police helicopter is following the car, the chase should end. Eventually the crook will slow back down and go to some destination where he can be arrested. Instead chases usually end by the criminal barreling into some cars in an intersection.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:37:43 PM EDT
The loss of power [i]assistance[/i] to brakes and steering does NOT mean the loss of steering or brakes. One of my first cars was a 1973 Dart that had NEITHER as it was shipped-and also didn't have rack and pinion steering. A BITCH under 10mph. But above that you couldn't tell the difference. At 65 I could steer with a finger. Its also a matter of watching background just like any other use of firearms. The fear of using shotguns or rifles to end pursuit is [i]judge made[/i] law that has little or no basis in technical fact. There is a change in feel and feedback-not a change in performance-when you loose power breaking or steering. That has been known to cause people to PANIC and think they have lost breaking and steering but all that has changed is how hard you have to push and move the wheel. And since someone in a chase is already going to have a death grip on the wheel and stomping the brakes through the floor when he has too, he is probably going to remain in control. And if he CANT remain in control it is really the DRIVERS fault for not knowing how to handle a sudden loss of power- its something any driver can have happen to them and everyone should be prepared. Unfortunately there are judges and juries that this obvious fact escapes.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:40:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: i got it! pull up along side and throw in a die grenade. then put up a reward on crime stoppers for someone that is purple!
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Well, I think you mean [b]dye[/b] grenade but frankly, I think you got it exactly right! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:57:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 6:58:13 PM EDT by Andreuha]
*hrmph* Perhaps police helo's could be suped up to carry 5 tons or so of cargo, and equipped with as harpoon like missile system that would hook into a car, and allow the helo to pick it up in the air and set it down in some trees or a lake for example[;)] Just a silly idea [;D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:58:27 PM EDT
Equip a few patrol vheicles with this on the roof or trunk lid: [url]http://www.precisionremotes.com/HTML/TRemotes.T2.Apps.htm[/url] With a Benelli or a SR-25 mounted in it. Drive in front or along side. The badguy vheicle Engage either engine or tires.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:01:20 PM EDT
Oh! Heres an idea.. Reinforced kevlar netting dropped on a car to snag on and entangle its drivetrain. Or just equipped with an EMP delivery system. Hell, EMP warheads on rockets launched from police helo's.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:21:53 PM EDT
Guided missiles are still too expensive. But if you did a solid, not explosive, warhead would be best. Each round with a guided weapon would cost more than buying a whole remote gun mount and a good sniper weapon to put in it. The remote gun mount has a bit of a steep capital outlay at first-but each time you use it is just the cost of a 7.62mm cartridge. And you can bill it to the perp or his family.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:41:23 PM EDT
What about those Suburbans with a .50 built into the back? The link was on here a few months back
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:47:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Glock31: What about those Suburbans with a .50 built into the back? The link was on here a few months back
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Well the .50 certainly would work-even against medium and heavy trunks. But a Suburban wouldn't be able to keep up with most of the vheicles cops chase. A remote roof mount could be fitted on a Mustang. And that will catch most anything out there.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:35:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Guided missiles are still too expensive. But if you did a solid, not explosive, warhead would be best. Each round with a guided weapon would cost more than buying a whole remote gun mount and a good sniper weapon to put in it. The remote gun mount has a bit of a steep capital outlay at first-but each time you use it is just the cost of a 7.62mm cartridge. And you can bill it to the perp or his family.
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Perhaps we can contract this service out to the Israelis... they've got a demonstrated track record of stand-off target annhiliation against moving vehicles and "wanted persons"...
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:46:56 PM EDT
Another vote for the magnet suspended from a helicopter. That would be really fun to watch. Don't spoil it by reminding me how it is impractical.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:47:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng: peekay/BillofRights, Guns and gas have many legal uses. Guns also have mention in BOR. There is no logical connection between limiting mph and banning firearms. Vehicles that go over 70 mph have no use, legal or otherwise, to the majority of the buying public. At the very least, I would like to see the option made available. It would allow the designers to concentrate on maximizing efficiency in the 0-70 mph range without having to cater to the car magazine's reviewers.
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Are you serious with this bullshit? I bet you are one of those that say the 'slower traffic keep right' signs don't apply if you are doing the speed limit and just ride along in the left lane oblivious to the people you are inconviencing.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 8:48:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: 70 is not *fast*! Oh hell, I do 70 all day long on the freeways, often speeding up to 80 or 85 on occasion, as the need arises. Now 90, *that's* too fast! [;d]
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Huh???? 90 is just creeping in some cars.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 9:01:43 PM EDT
Ngog_Nrythrng: Please listen to Bill Cosby's "200 MPH Car" and get back to us.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 9:20:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By DScott: 70 is not *fast*! Oh hell, I do 70 all day long on the freeways, often speeding up to 80 or 85 on occasion, as the need arises. Now 90, *that's* too fast! [;d]
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Huh???? 90 is just creeping in some cars.
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Just a joke! You know, like "it's OK if *I* do it, but you can't" sort of thing. Speed is like weaponry- some people can handle alot of it, some can't... [;d]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 9:23:19 PM EDT
How about we just start shooting people on site. After all, ever one commits a crime sooner or later right?? SGtar15
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 9:37:52 PM EDT
How about every time the cops chase a fleeing suspect, we riot and burn down our neighborhood?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:14:21 PM EDT
Perhaps we can contract this service out to the Israelis... they've got a demonstrated track record of stand-off target annhiliation against moving vehicles and "wanted persons"...
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No, we don't want annhiliation, we just want the car stopped. By the way, the Israelis already have this [img]http://www.precisionremotes.com/images/SitePhotos/T22.jpg[/img] Precision Remotes T-2 mount with KAC SR-25 shown during the Church of the Nativity standoff in Nazerith a year ago. Mounted to a civilian construction crane, the Pallies had to literally hide UNDER furnature to escape, four of their number were taken out by this gun. [img]http://www.precisionremotes.com/images/SitePhotos/T-250FS5.jpg[/img] If it can shoot like that, it can shoot out a engine from one car to another. Or tires. Or the driver if you wanted to. But killing the driver is the one thing that WILL turn a automobile into a free running unguided missile.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:16:30 PM EDT
Quote: "How about we just start shooting people on site. After all, ever one commits a crime sooner or later right?" Now you're thinking! cynic
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:29:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Perhaps we can contract this service out to the Israelis... they've got a demonstrated track record of stand-off target annhiliation against moving vehicles and "wanted persons"...
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No, we don't want annhiliation, we just want the car stopped. By the way, the Israelis already have this [url]http://www.precisionremotes.com/images/SitePhotos/T22.jpg[/url] Precision Remotes T-2 mount with KAC SR-25 shown during the Church of the Nativity standoff in Nazerith a year ago. Mounted to a civilian construction crane, the Pallies had to literally hide UNDER furnature to escape, four of their number were taken out by this gun. [url]http://www.precisionremotes.com/images/SitePhotos/T-250FS5.jpg[/url] If it can shoot like that, it can shoot out a engine from one car to another. Or tires. Or the driver if you wanted to. But killing the driver is the one thing that WILL turn a automobile into a free running unguided missile.
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Wow! Very cool info! Those Israelis are resourceful M-Fers, aren't they. Remind me never to piss them off, and not to speed in Israel! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:41:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 10:42:40 PM EDT by cynic]
Quote: "How about every time the cops chase a fleeing suspect, we riot and burn down our neighborhood?" I'm probably going to be labeled a racist for this, but... If Jesse Hijackson really cared about his people, he'd teach them how to pop smoke. Lord knows your typical CNN reporter wouldn't know the difference, right? cynic
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 1:49:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gunman0:
Originally Posted By AR15fan: we had a policy of not pursuing motercycles. A local crook knew this. so he did all his crime on his motorcycle. He victimized several people a day, for MONTHS, always exscaping the scen on his sport bike. Finally one officer said fvck the no pursuit policy, and rammed him. The report read something like "I was following the suspect when for an unknown reason he lost control of his motorcycle and crashed into my patrol car..." Hopefully the officer doesnt get punished too severly.
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And your department couldn't spare or borrow/rent a helicopter for the few minutes needed to track this guy to wherever he stops even though he was robbing several people a day for months? That's my biggest complaint when I see car chases on the news. If a police helicopter is following the car, the chase should end. Eventually the crook will slow back down and go to some destination where he can be arrested. Instead chases usually end by the criminal barreling into some cars in an intersection.
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There are 4 police helicopters in my area. We are lucky if one of them is available at any given time. They dont fly in fog, which we have many nights. They also get assigned to the highest priority calls where they can do the most good. The also have a tendancy to run out of gas at the worst possible times.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:24:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng: This will get me flamed, but: Why are cars sold for use in the US set up to go faster than 70 mph? I understand that race tracks do exist, but 99.9999999% of vehicles do not race. The stolen BMW or Caddy Escalade that goes 150 mph when driven by a fifteen year old thief is a problem that does not need to exist.
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Eh. From a mechanical point of view, a car with a maximum speed of 70 MPH would have it's engine/motor burn out a HELL of a lot faster from frequent highway use than a car with a top speed of say 140 MPH. If you consider the fact that the car with the 70 MPH top speed would be running at 92% of it's maximum physical load (on a posted 65MPH freeway) compared to 46% for the other vehicle. If it's built to handle much more than it will actually be used for, there is inherrently less stress on the engine components.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:38:22 AM EDT
I like to watch those car chase videos. You guys describe the "Car chase menace" like an anti describes guns "on the street". Listening to you, you'd think a cop is in 15-17 chases a day, and cars are running over 30-40 people a day while in hot pursuit! While it is a dilemma, our time could be spent on other things (Other than building "pulse-tasers" to sweep hospitals with...)
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:48:52 AM EDT
I would think the secret to stopping a perp's vehicle would be to sabotage the road in front of him/her (non gender specific, we all know how womenz drive). Spikes, blocks, traffic, cattle, Rosie O Donnell, etc.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 5:19:32 AM EDT
I always liked the CH-47 with the giant electromagnet that was used to dump a carload of gangsters into Tokyo Bay in [i][b]You Only Live Twice[/b][/i].
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