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Posted: 6/25/2003 9:55:45 AM EDT
I live in Springfield, Illinois, and I attempted to go into the local gunstore, Oglesby and Oglesby, but the owner told me that I had to be 18 to even be in his store according to Illinois law. I am pretty sure that no such law exists, so I suspect that he just likes to discriminate against kids. Anyway, all anger aside, I just wanted to make sure if such a law exists in Illinois. If you know, I'd appreciate it, thanks.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:20:57 AM EDT
[url]www.google.com[/url] That would of answered your question Read away. Your answer is somewhere in this pdf file [url]http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/ptfire.pdf[/url]
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:21:37 AM EDT
You may have to wait a bit, as this would be referring to a state law, and somebody familiar with Illinois laws will have to respond. There is no such law here in VA. Get used to it, as many gunstore owners/employees behave poorly. Some are just misinformed, yet believe they are an information god, and others are downright asses. When I was browsing once, an upper level person (perhaps even the owner), asked me if I needed help. I told him no, and that I was just browsing. He responded with a "Well, it's not a museum", and walked away. I have probably spent $2,000+ there over the years. I still go there, but I acknowledge that I may run into this type of attitude.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:28:15 AM EDT
You may want to cross-post this in the Legal Forum. The only thing I found that was age-specific and may apply to gun store operations is this:
It is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have an FOID is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is: (1) secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or (2) placed in a securely locked box or container; or (3) placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.
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Now, first, the above referenced section of the law says 14, not 18. That point notwithstanding, the gun store owner may be taking the law to say that it is unlawful for him to allow you (as an unaccompanied) minor and non-FOID-holder) to have access to firearms on the premises under his control. I don't know for sure, though. If you want to know the whole story, call a lawyer. In browsing through the IL law, I did come across this obscure thing:
It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm when a person is hooded or masked.
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Odd.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:31:19 AM EDT
From doing a quick search it appears that it would take a hell of a long time to go through all of illinois gun laws. Not only are there an assload of state laws but there are a TON of local ordinances too. http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/illocalord.asp#childaccessprevention
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:34:22 AM EDT
The owner's full of shit...... unless they've changed the law in the last few months. Some gunshop guys don't want "kids" in their shop because "kids" can't buy a gun anyhow, so why have non-customers cluttering up the place. Here's a link to the ILL State Police. Gun law links at bottom. http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearms.cfm
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:37:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm when a person is hooded or masked.
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Odd.
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Wow, does this apply to [s]JBT's[/s] S.W.A.T too?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:37:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz: You may want to cross-post this in the Legal Forum. The only thing I found that was age-specific and may apply to gun store operations is this:
It is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have an FOID is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is: (1) secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or (2) placed in a securely locked box or container; or (3) placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.
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Now, first, the above referenced section of the law says 14, not 18. That point notwithstanding, the gun store owner may be taking the law to say that it is unlawful for him to allow you (as an unaccompanied) minor and non-FOID-holder) to have access to firearms on the premises under his control. I don't know for sure, though. If you want to know the whole story, call a lawyer. In browsing through the IL law, I did come across this obscure thing:
It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm when a person is hooded or masked.
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Odd.
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Dude come on just like a gun will make you a bad person a hood or mask to go with that gun will make joe public into joe publi serial killer, bank robber. When he takes the hood or mask off than he's just evil joe cuz he has a gun and if he gets rid of the gun than he goes back to harmless joe public. It's what ya wear that makes ya a criminal. Stupid Illinois laws
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:42:57 AM EDT
"It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm when a person is hooded or masked." There are a great many states that have such laws, and they are all felonies as far as I can tell. These are generally "anti Klan" laws. In my research I have not found that states that have these laws give exceptions to law enforcement, whether in the line of duty or not. The wearing of ski masks (call them balaclavas, tell me they are for fire protection, BS!) WHILE armed, for the purpose of concealing identity is therefore a felony, whether the wearer is a LEO or not. Let's see, a guy committing a felony, carrying a firearm, face hidden with a ski mask... man, it is hard to tell the bank robbers and muggers from LEOs like that. I'd give a citizen the benefit of the doubt in a shooting case involving a person with a ski mask and a gun in his home.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 10:49:00 AM EDT
We had a totally subjective policy at the store where I worked. If you showed up in big pants with a hat on sideways and some FUBU wear I'd kick you out if you were under 18. If you looked like a respectable kid and you were 12 and alone I didn't care. Groups of kids under 18 in the summertime got the boot. I was not going to go around straightening up the store from a bunch of bored kids. We had some kids come in that knew more about guns than most of the owner though, and they were ok. I typically took it on a case by case basis. If you looked like a normal kid and weren't with a whole herd of kids, you could stay.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 11:04:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CKMorley: The owner's full of shit...... unless they've changed the law in the last few months. Some gunshop guys don't want "kids" in their shop because "kids" can't buy a gun anyhow, so why have non-customers cluttering up the place.
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Yep, I can agree with that one. How old are you, arrow? If your 14, they're defenitly gonna make up some shit to kick you out.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 11:56:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2003 11:58:18 AM EDT by Rickyj]
Originally Posted By norman74: We had a totally subjective policy at the store where I worked. If you showed up in big pants with a hat on sideways and some FUBU wear I'd kick you out if you were under 18. If you looked like a respectable kid and you were 12 and alone I didn't care. Groups of kids under 18 in the summertime got the boot. I was not going to go around straightening up the store from a bunch of bored kids. We had some kids come in that knew more about guns than most of the owner though, and they were ok. I typically took it on a case by case basis. If you looked like a normal kid and weren't with a whole herd of kids, you could stay.
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Sounds about right. I never had trouble looking at guns, even when I was a little kid. Course I was pretty clean cut and well behaved. Sir, thank you, no sir, etc.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:44:03 PM EDT
If this man doesn't want me to enjoy it, then I sure won't buy a gun from his store when I am old enough to.
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you have the right idea. hit him where it hurts, his pocket book. tell all your friends, family and anybody else that will listen about the rude treatment you received at his shop. does your local newspaper have an editorials section? right the editor a letter about how a local business practices age discrimination.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 5:50:10 PM EDT
In Illinois you need a FOID card to even handle ammo much less a gun. Did you whip out your FOID card?
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:11:27 PM EDT
For the same reason they wouldnt let a 20 year old in a liquor only store You arent a customer! It still sucks that you cant browse and plan out your birthday party Keving67
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:12:19 PM EDT
No law in VA like that, but our store policy is that you need to have a parent or other adult you are 'attached' to during your stay. Sucks, but it is what it is... TR
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 6:37:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Rock: No law in VA like that, but our store policy is that you need to have a parent or other adult you are 'attached' to during your stay. Sucks, but it is what it is... TR
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Same in MA, but here, like gravity, it's the law....
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:03:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: If any of you live in Springfield, Illinois, put a sign up in your yard that says "Boycott Oglesby and Oglesby for their age discriminating policies".
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I was in Springfield about ten days ago and since a lot of those people are State employees or depend on the State of Illinois for income, there just seems with all the anti-gun crap in Illinois you would have people act like that; BUT THE GUN STORE OWNER SHOULDN'T BE ONE OF THEM.[:(!] Maybe you pissed him off when you didn't buy parts for your Dad's gun.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:17:24 PM EDT
Hate to tell you, but age discrimination won't resonate with too many of us. Just like the age 21 drinking age doesn't bother anyone over 21. Moreover, it's a private business. He can do what he wants and this policy makes a lot of sense.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:25:02 PM EDT
The issue here is not store policy; the issue is that the proprietor claimed that the youth could not be in the store because of IL state law. That appears to be a falsehood. It is one thing to exercise one's right to prohibit entry into a private establishment. It is something altogether different to claim that the prohibition is mandated by a non-existent law.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:47:57 PM EDT
So the owner's either a dumb-ass or a liar. Either way, it's his store and he can exclude people based on a mistaken reading of the law. I'm almost certain, however, that the law in Illinois does not forbid non-Foid holders or people under 18 to be in a gun store.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 7:53:15 PM EDT
Don't want to hijack, but It is unlawful to carry or possess any firearm when a person is hooded or masked. Hmmm, maybe I'll have to check into Michigan's laws on that. I sit on a stump in the middle of the woods to hunt deer, and I usually wear my sweatshirt hood up. If it's real windy I'll wear a bright orange ski mask. Wait a minute - what about masked turkey hunters? This isn't something I do, but I can buy camo masks at many sporting goods stores here - same with those neoprene camo masks designed for duck hunting that cover the lower face. Back to topic - if they piss you off, take your business elsewhere.
Link Posted: 6/25/2003 9:42:31 PM EDT
I've went to Oglesby and Oglesby once, a few years ago. Their prices were ridiculous & the guy behind the counter had a shitty attitude. And there is NOT an Illinois law stating age requirements to frequent gunshops. You don't see any guarded fences around the sporting goods department at Walmart!! Have you ever been to Bullet Express?? There is a very hot young blonde that works there that makes every vist worthwhile. ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 8:54:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: His policy makes sense? I have never left a mess for him, in fact, I have always put back what I take off the shelves. I don't think it makes sense for him to fuck over the kids who would've supported his store in the future. He shot himself in the foot. Now none of my friends go there, I don't go there, my parents don't go there, and my friends parents don't go there. One of my friends used to buy stuff from them everyday, and he walked into the store and told Oglesby to suck it. SO PLEASE, do not tell me that his policy MAKES SENSE. Thanks.
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Maybe YOU don't trash his stuff, but I guarantee alot of other kids do. It sucks you're having to bear the burden of the actions of other kids your age, but it's a fact. Also, regardless of whether you'd like to spend money there or not, you undoubtedly have very little to spend, so what's the point? Having been there done that, I think it's a good policy. I think his lying and saying it's state law is kinda weak though.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:05:59 AM EDT
I can see how they might say that age is a measure of one's maturity. Arrowbullet, I'm sure you could get your point across without having to cuss in everyother sentence. There are reasons that "Big Brother" wants people to be 18 and 21 to purchase rifles and handguns (respectively), and some of that is due to the maturity level of the person buying the weapon. Am I saying that you shouldn't own or use firearms? No. I'm saying that I know many people under the age of 18 that definitely fit the "kid" profile, and I certainly don't feel comfortable with them owning/using firearms. Sorry that your age puts you into that category, but such is life. The majority rules, and kids under 18 are generally not mature enough to handle the responsibility that is inherent with firearms of any sort. My $.02 BTW, I had to wait until I was over 18 to get a rifle, and over 21 to get a handgun, just like everyone else. Daddy wasn't there to buy me the big boy toys.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:45:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2003 9:49:07 AM EDT by HKocher]
Here's my take on it, and I hope I don't offend you too much in the process. You're only 15, get over it! When you are 18, they still won't pay much attention to you. When you're 21, they still won't treat you like a king. Once you start buying a gun or two, things will change. Money equals power. When I first started buying guns, it took me some time to build a rapport with local gun dealers. Try going to a car dealership by yourself and see what happens. They won't kick you out, but you sure as hell aren't going to get the attention of a salesman who is busy speaking with a couple in their 30s. Is it fair, hell no! But the fact is, gun dealers are small business owner who aren't likely to become millionaires for their effort. They have to pay the bills to keep their licenses, pay the power bill and keep their lease current. All this with a few measly gun sales. Sure the nice thing for the owner to do would have been to let you in, and answer all your questions, but perhaps that would have cost him a sale or two. Keep in mind, a lot of these guys are one-man operations. I've seen signs at gun stores: "under 18 prohibited without an adult." Would you have been satisfied with that, or would that have still pissed you off? I don't know the law in IL, and perhaps he lied to you (which he should not have done) or perhaps he is ignorant of the law. Either way, I think that it was a 'polite' way of shooing you away. What he really meant to say was "you aren't buying anything, so get lost and stop wasting my time," but at least he made up an excuse instead. Is he an a-hole? Perhaps, but I don't think so base solely on what you have said here. Did he treat you bad? Yes and no. I don't think he did you any wrong, but he certainly didn't go 'above and beyond' the call of duty. Should anyone boycott his business because you weren't allowed to gawk at his guns and ask a bunch of questions? I don't think so. Sounds like you're the typical 15 year old. All fired up and you want to be treated with the respect that you 'deserve,' because you've 'earned it,' right??? My advice to you is to get over this small incident because someday soon, you'll start to face real problems, and how you handle THOSE incidents will judge what kind of man you will become. If you choose to shop elsewhere, great, more power to you, but I think it's silly to start a crusade against this guy, just because he slighted you.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 10:50:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2003 10:51:13 AM EDT by RiffRandall]
Originally Posted By Publius: Hate to tell you, but age discrimination won't resonate with too many of us. Just like the age 21 drinking age doesn't bother anyone over 21.
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Not to hijack the thread....but I'm quite a ways past 21 & the 21 drinking age still pisses me off to no end. If a 18yr old is mature enuff for voting or the draft then they are old enuff to buy a damn beer. The .gov can send you to some foreign shithole to possible catch a bullet (while carrying a full auto assault rifle) but you better not get caught drinking a beer while on leave? [bs]
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 12:04:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: Here's my take on it, and I hope I don't offend you too much in the process. You're only 15, get over it! When you are 18, they still won't pay much attention to you. When you're 21, they still won't treat you like a king. Once you start buying a gun or two, things will change. Money equals power. When I first started buying guns, it took me some time to build a rapport with local gun dealers. Try going to a car dealership by yourself and see what happens. They won't kick you out, but you sure as hell aren't going to get the attention of a salesman who is busy speaking with a couple in their 30s. Is it fair, hell no! But the fact is, gun dealers are small business owner who aren't likely to become millionaires for their effort. They have to pay the bills to keep their licenses, pay the power bill and keep their lease current. All this with a few measly gun sales. Sure the nice thing for the owner to do would have been to let you in, and answer all your questions, but perhaps that would have cost him a sale or two. Keep in mind, a lot of these guys are one-man operations. I've seen signs at gun stores: "under 18 prohibited without an adult." Would you have been satisfied with that, or would that have still pissed you off? I don't know the law in IL, and perhaps he lied to you (which he should not have done) or perhaps he is ignorant of the law. Either way, I think that it was a 'polite' way of shooing you away. What he really meant to say was "you aren't buying anything, so get lost and stop wasting my time," but at least he made up an excuse instead. Is he an a-hole? Perhaps, but I don't think so base solely on what you have said here. Did he treat you bad? Yes and no. I don't think he did you any wrong, but he certainly didn't go 'above and beyond' the call of duty. Should anyone boycott his business because you weren't allowed to gawk at his guns and ask a bunch of questions? I don't think so. Sounds like you're the typical 15 year old. All fired up and you want to be treated with the respect that you 'deserve,' because you've 'earned it,' right??? My advice to you is to get over this small incident because someday soon, you'll start to face real problems, and how you handle THOSE incidents will judge what kind of man you will become. If you choose to shop elsewhere, great, more power to you, but I think it's silly to start a crusade against this guy, just because he slighted you.
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Very well put. Not much more than that really needs to be said.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 12:41:01 PM EDT
arrowbullet, you need to move. Round here we teach our kids to shoot and most own firearms before they reach puberty. Dang sure nobody looks down on them or slights them because of their age. They're our future hunting/shooting buds. Piss on city life. In my opinion the guy shows poor business practices to be rude or lie to his future customers. Shop somewhere else.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:10:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: The man knew that we had a FOID card, he just wanted to be an asshole, and he said that it didn't matter all he said was that "They are busting our balls." Making it appear to me that he was blaming it on the government.
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The guy is a dickhead. Why would you want to go there? Go back when you are 21 and tell him you are shopping for new rifle but you sure as hell aren't shopping in his store.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 2:56:43 PM EDT
In my corner of michigan I know of only one toy store that wont let those under 18 in the door. The rest have " policies" that prohibit minors without adults present from handeling firearms. I myself did a bit of time in a gun shop that had a no minors handleing guns policy. But it was really at the clerks discretion. I had no problems letting the youngins handle the toys if They acted respectable. I did have one standling rule that has served me well. "You had to be taller than the weapon to fondle it."
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 5:04:24 PM EDT
[baby] You need to chill out. Life's full of slights, disrespect, etc. Learn to deal with it with some grace and you'll be much happier. I promsise you this will be on of 1,000,000 time in you life when you fee slighted and annoyed. It's very simple, don't go there. But as others have explained his policy probably makes a lot of sense in the aggregate. You can't have individualized justice in so many areas in life--you must be 16 to drive, 18 to vote, etc.--even if you feel smarter, wiser, more responsible, or more capable than those that get to do something that you can't. It's so important to understand that basic thing about the world we live in. Just deal with it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 5:26:01 PM EDT
He told you it was state law and he's full of it. He just wanted you out, and maybe that was his excuse to give you the boot. I have never read anything in IL state law that said that. I'd say window shop somewhere else, but in IL it's pretty hard to find a friendly firearms dealer, which is sad. A lot of the shops have owner-set policies, but it suprises me how many are ignorant of the laws.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 5:54:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: One last thing, Norman74, you are telling me that I should not be able to boycott Oglesby because of what he did to me. It is my legal right to be able to boycott, and petition. You have no right to take away my rights, or tell me what to do. This is outlandish that you are supporting this abomination to the second amendment.
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Please don't misquote me, I said nothing of the kind. You're 14, nobody here is going to be able to arue with you, since 14 year olds know everything. My suggestion? Save this thread and read it again when you're 30 so you can laugh at yourself.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 6:17:43 PM EDT
It's you who doesn't seem to be getting the point. Nobody cares (or at least most don't).
Also, I started this post so that we, as responsible shooters, could fight against corrupt store policies, but this has caused us to bicker and argue. This is certainly not what I wanted, let's put this behind us.
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No, you started this post to find sympathetic people who you thought would inundate the store with complaints and force them to change their mind. Nobody cares! There is a big difference in getting friends, relatives or even people within your own state to boycott, but when you post to an international board, to a bunch of strangers, most of whom don't know or care about you, the law in your state, or what problems a 15 year old may have, what do you expect? Did you expect the store to get thousands of calls or letters? There is nothing 'corrupt' about what the store did. It may be a bad business decision, but they have every right not to allow you in the store, just as you have every right not to like it and to boycott. Whether it is against store policy or against the law doesn't matter..they just don't want you in the store. If they lose customers and business because of this decision, well..to bad for them, but it is their decision. If you want to make an impression on the store, get a parent to bring you in and pretend to buy a gun, but opt to go to another store since they threw you out previously. It will have a lot more impact than a bunch of unrelated phone calls or mail. As for your NOTE. It really doesn't help your cause. It is unrelated to the topic at hand and has absolutely nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. The version I have says nothing about how/when/where to shoot or safety issues. Not to put you down, as your responses up to this point have been articulate and reasonable, but your NOTE just seems to be a childish attempt to justify your position with non-related BS and begins to sound like illogical ranting.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 6:45:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2003 7:05:36 PM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: ...When my dad's friend started to shoot on HIS new land, the Oglesby promptly complained and told him that he should build "an NRA certified backstop" before he shot... So, obviously this man does not make policies to further the second amendment, but to degrade it into non-existence....
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This Oglesby fella sounds like a smart person to me. Where do you think all those bullets go once they leave the barrel??? One of the cardinal rules of gun safety is to be aware of your target and what is beyond it. The best way to follow that rule is with an appropriate backstop. Unless he's got a 1000+ yards of empty ground between him and his nearest neighbor/road/etc..., some sort of backstop would be a very necessary addition. Safety should never take a backseat to convenience. If your 'dad's friend' doesn't understand that, perhaps he doesn't deserve to own a gun either... As far as not promoting the 2nd Amendment, well first of all, he sells GUNS. Secondly, promoting safe shooting techniques is crucial to the survival of the RKBA. What do you think the NRA does for a living? Making sure your dad's friend has an appropriate backstop, will insure that he won't accidently put a bullet through someone's house/car/body downrange. Incidents like that generally make gun owners look bad, and hurt the cause. BTW, I don't mean to bash on you, because the young shooters really are the future of gun owners. I commend you on expressing an interest in shooting, and hope you grow to love it as much the rest of us. I also hope that you stick around here and become a contributing member. But in the mean time, remember that most of us here have been 15, and some of us still remember what it was like. That being said, as Norman said, as you get older, you'll mysteriously get 'dumber.'
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:16:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:54:39 PM EDT
I will say this much about gun-store owners, a lot of them are pretty freagin' surly. I don't know why, but they often look at you like an asshole just for walking in. Not all certainly, but more than other businesses. My theory is a lot of people come in to look at and fondle guns but never buy. Plus the concern about criminals. But I've had more than a few just snarl, look pissed when I wanted to look at something, and generally show poor customer service. One notable exception is DFW guns in Dallas. The guys running that store know their shit, including customer service. Same with Bachman. Maybe Texans are just friendlier.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:57:15 PM EDT
First off, it sounds like he wanted you to leave and figured blaming it on a non-existant law was a fairly safe bet (ie, he was betting that you didn't know the laws) and was wrong. Life isn't fair. Deal with it. Do you know how lucky you are to have parents that taught you to shoot and encourage such activities? I wasn't even allowed so much as a pellet rifle until I was 16, and then only because dad's logic of "he's going to be driving a 2000 pound car at 60+ mph in rush hour traffic, which is a hell of a lot more dangerous than a pellet rifle" finally swayed mom enough to let me get one. I had to wait until I moved out of my parent's house before I could buy ANY form of firearm.
Originally Posted By HKocher: What do you think the NRA does for a living?
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[LOLabove][LOL][ROFL][ROFL2] You mean they do something other than send out letters begging for MORE of my money? [:D]
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 5:50:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: "Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance: I can see how they might say that age is a measure of one's maturity. Arrowbullet, I'm sure you could get your point across without having to cuss in everyother sentence. There are reasons that "Big Brother" wants people to be 18 and 21 to purchase rifles and handguns (respectively), and some of that is due to the maturity level of the person buying the weapon. Am I saying that you shouldn't own or use firearms? No. I'm saying that I know many people under the age of 18 that definitely fit the "kid" profile, and I certainly don't feel comfortable with them owning/using firearms. Sorry that your age puts you into that category, but such is life. The majority rules, and kids under 18 are generally not mature enough to handle the responsibility that is inherent with firearms of any sort. My $.02 BTW, I had to wait until I was over 18 to get a rifle, and over 21 to get a handgun, just like everyone else. Daddy wasn't there to buy me the big boy toys." Yeah, and some of these "kids" are fighting in the American Army to protect my rights, and yours as well. So please stop saying that just because some kids are idiots, all kids can't own guns. That is not right, that is not what the founding fathers intended, and you know it. In fact, there are many adults that are incompetent, but you don't see me trying to ban all adults from owning guns. Besides, I have shot guns since I was 6 years old, and majority may rule, but minorities do have rights. So, please, I ask you nicely, stop taking sides with the person who is wrong, just because it is more politically correct.
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FYI smartguy...I've been on Active Duty for the past 5 years, so learn to show some friggin' respect, and know who you're talking to. I support and defend the Constitution of the United States, to include the rules that little 15 year old whiners don't get to buy guns. GET OVER IT.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:51:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 8:52:01 AM EDT by HKocher]
Wow, you just alienated yourself from 99.9% of this board with those last couple of comments. I really hope you learn some day. BTW, respect is earned, and currently your balance is sitting below ZERO with me after insulting Lapp_dance about his service.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:55:29 AM EDT
In response to the original question way back when, I don not know for sure if it is a law in Illinois. However, I do know MegaSports in Plainfield and a shop I believe is located in Chicago Ridge (107th St) Has the same policies. I have seen this posted at several gun shops that I have been to. It seems the closer to Chicago you get, the worse the policies. In fact, the guy in Chciago Ridge wants to see your FOID card right when you go in. I asked him why and he sadi that if you did not have one, you could not legally buy anything there. I asked him since when do I need a FOID to buy a holster or a scope? He got real beligerent about it so I showed him my card and then said I would never buy anything from him. PS I am 33 and have bought a few guns over the years and supplies so it is his loss, not mine. Take your bus to where they will appreciate it!!! Rebel 13
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:02:40 AM EDT
When I first started reading this post I thought to myself, now that is one squared away 15 year old... the more you talk the more I find out how ignorant you really are. PLEASE do yourself a favor, take the advice of your elders and definately get over yourself. Someday, hopefully soon for your sake, you'll learn how this world works and that it is not all about YOU. No, I don't need one of your childish retorts but go ahead, I'm sure you think you know best.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:08:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: I suggest we end this argument so I won't have to talk to troops who actually support the degrading of the constitution. Heck, judging by your name, I don't think you really are on active duty. And, if you are, you probably "fight for freedom" by being a lawyer and coming up with BS rules of engagement that get our troops killed. Don't get me wrong, I support our troops, all the way, I just don't support people who lie to me and/or wish to degrade the constitution.
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Didn't realize I was degrading the Constitution. I'm pretty sure all I said was that I support and defend (with my life by the way) the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. As for what I do? I'm enlisted, and lawyers are officers, but thanks for the assumption. I'm a mechanic by trade, and an Instructor by choice. Yes, I did qualify expert on small arms. And yes, I've defended your right to judge and berate my character while I was in Kuwait, just down the road from a lot of people who don't really like Americans. Sleep well, for men and women such as myself are watching over you so that you can. SSgt Lapp, out.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:17:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: Good idea rebel. By the way, I say we end this argument right now. Agreed? Anyway, gil, this argument was never about just me, it was about kids getting screwed by a-holes. Anyway, I want to put an end to this stuff. (That was my childish comment, sorry to disappoint). [X]
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No, the argument now is that you've: 1) Alienated a good portion of this board, who will likely continue to pull your pants down and smack your little peepee when you start off on some rediculous crusade. 2) Proven why gunshop owners don't want you in their shop. They get tired of know-it-all little kids who waste their time only to buy "a couple of magazines". Actually, those are statements of fact, so I guess you're right, the argument is over.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 12:16:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arrowbullet: Yes, you must be right, you know everything about me, even how I act AT HOME when I'm not talking to a bunch of losers who pretend to know me. Actually, I am a very polite person around adults (you all may be kids as far as I know). Also, you must not have known that the people at Bullets Express let me be in their shop, as well as the people of Birds n' Brooks. Your "facts" are so truly ridiculous that they do not put a stop to any argument. I have a little fact for you as well, you spelled ridiculous wrong, it is not spelled "rediculous". This is probably why I don't believe that you are all adults. Anyway, your "facts" were a waste of this board's memory. Let's put a REAL end to this useless argument. Oh, yes I also decided to do a real childish comment, here goes. [%|] = you
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I'm not even going to bother. Save this thread, truly, print it out. Read it again when you're 30 and laugh at yourself and how silly you acted. If you don't find it silly when you're 30, sit in a running car while the garage door is shut, it's a lost cause.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 1:00:00 PM EDT
Better yet, here's what you need to do: Find the addresses of the wives/husbands, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, etc... of ALL the US servicemen and women who gave their lives in this most current conflict in Iraq. Keep on building up this list of addresses because I believe that a couple of brave men gave their lives yesterday. Continue to compile this list until EVERY single US soldier has left Iraqi soil, THAT is when this conflict will have concluded. Now that you have this list, write, call, or better yet, visit each of these family members in person. Now explain to each and every one of them, exactly why you are a better person than their deceased loved ones, because someday you MIGHT 'have to enlist' and MAY have to go to North Korea. Which in your eyes will be "much worse than going to Iraq," since you "MAY be the one to fight an enemy who will not be defeated in under a month." Now that you have their attention, demand from them the respect which you have earned with your extreme (potential) bravery for (maybe) fighting (someday) in a (possible) war that is (hypothetically) much worse than the war that took the lives of their loved ones...
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 1:12:08 PM EDT
What an interestingly pointless argument
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 1:26:48 PM EDT
I got my answers, this is all stupid, I'm deleting all my posts.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 1:28:26 PM EDT
That'll show'em
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 1:36:48 PM EDT
Hey smartass, I will not say that the people in Iraq didn't give anything, but the Asians are much more capable, that's all I wanted to say. I'm not trying to show anyone up, I just wanted answers, and you guys wanted to side with the diabolical salesman. That's idiotic, so I will have no more of it, I'm done.
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