[url]http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/longisland/ny-usguns223342359jun22,0,1679951.story?coll=ny-linews-print[/url]

My letter to the NRA:

Before anyone gives support to the "Our Lady of Peace Act" you had damn well better read the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, Rev IV) to see what qualifies someone as "mentally ill".  Until then, you have no idea what you are about to do to us all.  Everyone and anyone is "mentally ill" according to DSM, the psychatric bible.  It might also be good to compare earlier versions to see how many "diseases" are added each time, and the "symptoms" that are listed.  These are arbitrarily decided on by a small board of politically and financially biased extreme liberals.  It may already be a classified mental illness to desire to own a firearm.  If not, it won't be long before it is in there, and this bill passes, I guarantee it will be there.  Then it will be illegal for anyone who desires to own a gun to actually own one.  It is too small a jump.

Thsi seems like it would violate the HIPPA (patient privacy)act of 1996. Plus is nearly everyone today diagnosed with some kind of mental disorder (depression, ADHD, PMS, etc). In addition mood altering drugs are often over prescribed (elevail, effexor, prozac, etc)for such things as fibromyalgia and sleep disorders. Does that mean you would be on a psych list? What about your kids. Hell a teacher can DX your kid with ADHD by a a check off sheet provided by thoughtful caring drug companies that make the drugs to treat this supposed diseases.

I was told by a person whose child attend a prestigious school in a large city that 25%-30% of the student body is on Ritalin, diagnosed with ADHD, etc.

RLR forgot to mention that insisting that one is NOT mentally ill in some form is obviously either a mental illness in and of itself, or obviously a symptom of some other mental illness, thus all the people who don't think they're mentally ill therefore ARE, and thus unable to own firearms.


Edited to add:  Kinda like the anti-alcohol people on campus that insist I have a drinking problem because I have *maybe* two beers/month.  I don't think thats a drinking problem, but according to their thinking, I'm in "denial" of my drinking problem.

That's probably true based on my experience.
My last job as a family practice doc was awful. I hated it.

Over half of the young boys I saw were on Ritalin type meds.

Over half of the teenage girls I saw were on antidepressants.

Well over half of my patients were on some type of psych drug. I spent my day trying, without success, to convince most of the people I saw that there was nothing wrong with them. I absolutley hated it. And try to tell some of these people they or their kids did not need these meds. Un-f'ing-believable what that would set off.

Parents are to blame. They blame the schools, teachers, doctors, etc. but parenting is becoming a lost skill. Nobody raises their kids anymore so how the hell would they be any good at it. Shit, if you ain't gonna raise 'em don't have 'em. I call ADHD Poor Parenting Syndrome for that is exactly what it is. You can't even blame the teachers. They are just trying to do their job and you can't do that with half the class acting out at any given time.

I quit family med and do urgent care now. I take care of their problem and they can go drive someone else nuts for their psych meds. Damn glad I did too, though some days still get pretty damn interesting. They oughta call family practice Med Psych instead.

Last time I read the law, it said that you couldn't have been declared mental by a court, etc...

Otherwise, any increase in the 'definition' of mental illness for such spurious measures would create an instant, unintended backlash with the immediate disqualification of more and more law enforcement officers and military.

Double edged sword.

If you want to own a firearm, knowing full well that firearms are the leading cause of death among children today, then clearly you're insane. Therefore you shouldn't be allowed to own one.

cynic

Edited to add: And if you don't agree, you're probably a porn-addicted alcoholic in denial.

I don't agree, and I'm not in denial. [devil]

You guys have got the picture, exactly.  Thanks for letting me know I communicated so well.

So.....  

WRITE LETTERS NOW!  To the NRA, to all your friends, to everyone who will DO SOMETHING.

Here's today's letter to the NRA from me:

[url]http://www.cchr.org/event/31anni/violence/index.htm[/url]

Please read the information at the link above.  This shows how psychiatrists are a keystone in the plan to ban all guns.  The tragedies they create are used to fuel emotionalism as a foundation to pass more restrictive gun laws.

I'm looking for more information to forward which describes the process used to revise/create the DSM.  A group of psychs meet every so often and arbitrarily add behaviors and create mental illnesses by the hundreds.  The DSM defines mental illness for legal and insurance purposes and is nothing more than a collection of opinions of a few biased liberal pseudo-doctors.

A law which gives psychiatrists power over firearms rights would be a very big step in the end of all firearms rights.  All they have to do is decide that anyone who desires to own a gun is mentally ill, and they are not far from this, if they haven't already done it.

Don't do this to us.  Do not back the McCarthy-Schumer "Our Lady of Peace Act".  

This will be a very big mistake, a turning point which will forever be noted as the one thing that ended gun ownership in the last free country on Earth.

So you admit you're a porn addicted alcoholic, eh?

Psychiatrists are the screwiest bunch of whackos out there. They are also extremely left wing. My first day of med school I could've went around and told you with 90% accuracy who was going to go into psych. The screwiest one was going into child psych. I wouldn't have let him within a mile of my kid. No f'ing way.

There is a move now in psychiatry to remove pedophilia from the DSM. Some of them think that this is just another "life style" choice--ie normal. My personal opinion is that they suffer from a mineral deficiency, notably lead.

You guys got the point, the NRA didn't.  Does GOA mean anything to y'all?  

NICS was backed by NRA, now they get to ask for more money to fight against how it's being abused, i.e. records being kept (registry of gun owners).  Now they want to add to it, increasing the complexity and possibility for abuse and errors, and 'round we go!

The NRA's reply:
************************************************

Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA. As for your comments regarding Our Lady of Peace Act, which is included in S. 22, please know that we are opposed to S.22 due to anti-gun provisions, including ballistic "fingerprinting" requirements and attacks on gun shows, although we do support Our Lady of Peace Act on its own. S. 22 would make it a crime for anyone who is not a dealer to sell any firearm without running the sale through the National Instant Check System. Rest assured, NRA will continue to monitor any anti-terrorism legislation for potential infringements on our Right to Keep and Bear Arms. For more information on S.22, please go to our website at, www.NRAILA.org and the section called Ballistic "Fingerprinting," which should have all the information you need.  Additionally, you may wish to visit the Library of Congress Legislative search tool at [url]http://thomas.loc.gov[/url] for the text of legislation, and additional information about the status of legislation. For your convenience, I have added a link to S.22, from our website, for your review.

[url]http://www.nraila.org/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=138[/url]

However, we do support efforts to improve the efficiency of the National Instant Check System (NICS), through "Our Lady of Peace Act" legislation (again, not in S.22 legislation due to its anti-gun provisions). Under this legislation no additional classes of persons would have been prohibited from possessing firearms or make additional information available to the FBI. The "Our Lady of Peace Act" was simply an effort to encourage and aid states in updating the records of individuals currently prohibited under federal law. This legislation would have been an improvement, as it would make more clear exactly who is and who is not prohibited. The fact is that some people who are currently prohibited from purchasing and possessing firearms don't get stopped by NICS because record reporting is not uniform.  Any efforts made toward NCIC or NICS to improve the accuracy and efficiency of these systems are supported.

For more information on The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), you may wish to contact the American Psychological Association at www.apa.org.

Sincerely,

(NRA person)

"Over half of the young boys I saw were on Ritalin type meds.

Over half of the teenage girls I saw were on antidepressants.

Well over half of my patients were on some type of psych drug. "

Maybe this is just a drug company conspiracy.  Who really stands to gain to most?

It is not.

It IS an unintentional conspiracy of parents, somewhat teachers, and the medical profession against children. You really have to lay it on the parents though. It is their deficiencies that are at the root of this, and most other modern childhood problems.

The NRA has much to gain in a slow, protracted fight against the second amendment.
This letter really, really pisses me off. I may give up my memebership.

My response:
---------------------------
Dear Claudia,

I understand your point in that OLOP would not change existing prohibitions on ownership.

I understand that if the DSM were revised to include "gun ownership disorder", the existence of the OLOP law would be unrelated.

My point is that OLOP would make a total gun ban much easier and therefore is a step in the wrong direction on the slipperiest of slopes.  It is one piece of the plan, and you are helping put it in place.

NICS is already a complex system prone to error, a system which has not reduced crime and never will.  Anyone who wants a gun will always get one or make it themselves.  NICS is also being used illegally by our government to create a firearms owner database (thank you very much).  It is just another expensive bureaucratic blunder.  It was wrong to support NICS in the first place and it is time to admit that it was wrong.

It is not time to make NICS more complex and introduce more avenues for abuse.  Of course, I'm sure the NRA will defend us against all the new abuses and threats which you are now helping put into place!  The NRA is starting to look more and more like the government - promoting bureaucracy, more interested in perpetuating their game than standing up for individual rights.

If you do not change position on this, I will be pushing this issue far and wide, and I will be recommending withdrawal of support from the NRA, support which will be turned to groups which are more concerned with preserving the last threads of our rights than preserving their incomes.


(name, city, state)

I have been told by parents that TEACHERS have little checklists, evaluations they do, and that TEACHERS (who are not doctors) tell parents that they need to put their kids on Ritalin.

And if your kid is bright, active, enthusiastic, fidgets a little because he wants to go out and play, or needs to go pee, and is bored with the class and teacher, he is said to be hyperactive.

Well, since you brought it up....

Cocaine for kids?
[url]http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30441[/url]

Here's another good quote from a doctor interviewed on 4/15 Montel Williams show:

Dr. BLOCK: What we do know about Ritalin is that it's more potent than cocaine, it goes to the same receptor sites in the brain as cocaine and is used interchangeably in medical research with cocaine. So if we would put a child for those many years on cocaine, I believe there would be no doubt in anyone's mind what might happen to that child.

**********************************************
OK?  Any questions?  Why would a group of doctors who get paid to treat mental illness feed drugs that create mental illness to a generation of children?  Hint:  our government gives 3 times the funding to "mental health" as they do to NASA!!!    RLR

While there is certainly SOME truth to this, it is overstated. Teachers are often desperate to maintain some semblance of order in their classroom. In this I do not blame them. The system is set up so that they are unable to maintain order. They really are at the mercy of obnoxious brats with equally, or more so, obnoxious parents. If you saw what I see you would understand. The average person would be amazed at what goes on behind the doors of the doctors office. I often do not spend the majority of my day fighting disease and pestilence. It leaves me pretty damn empty at the end of most days. The emotional drainage of dealing with some of these people takes its toll. At least it does if you really give a shit. Often the other docs I work with just say, "it pays the bills" but interestingly it the best and brightest that are the most disillusioned. I guess that's my opinion though.

I told my wife I am going to give up medicine in 1-2 years so she better plan ahead. A lot of older docs are retiring early, as they are sick of it, setting up a potential crisis in medical care. The gov't will probably do what they did in the 60's: Bring in more foreign docs.

While I do not believe that parents should be held responsible for everything their children do, I do believe that there should be sanctions for poor parents.

We do appreciate your concerns, however the fact still remains that this legislation would have been an improvement, as it would make more clear exactly who is and who is not prohibited. The fact is that some people who are currently prohibited from purchasing and possessing firearms don't get stopped by NICS because record reporting is not uniform. At the same time, many people who are legally able to purchase and possess firearms are denied, due to records that have not been updated in the system. Any efforts made toward NCIC or NICS to improve the accuracy and efficiency of these systems are supported.  You said it yourself, "
NICS is already a complex system prone to error..." it is these errors that we wish to improve.

Turning to the actual operation of NICS, NRA has been very active in objecting to how this system was designed and has been implemented.  It is important to remember that NICS was created by the anti-gun Clinton/Reno Department of Justice (DOJ), and it is clear that the original intent of the legislators who offered NICS as a substitute to a permanent waiting period was not followed.  The current practice of retaining the personal information of law-abiding gun purchasers is not what was originally intended, and NRA has supported both legislative remedies to this particular abuse of NICS, as well as judicial remedies.  In addition, current Attorney General John Ashcroft has been working on this matter, and we are pleased to see it is getting the attention it deserves. Our goal always is to pursue the best, most viable strategy to defeat anti-gun legislation based on the political climate of the time.

Again, Our Lady of Peace Act has not been re-introduced this session, other than its inclusion in S.22, which we are opposed to.

Sincerely,

(NRA person)

[b]HIPAA[/b], not HIPPA

[b]H[/b]ealth
[b]I[/b]nsurance
[b]P[/b]ortability and
[b]A[/b]ssurance
[b]A[/b]ct

Most profound! ROTFLMAOKS!
[LOL]

drjarhead, yor are pretty much on target with this. As a father of an ADHD child, we have butted heads with the school many times on this. teachers suggested we have my son put on meds, and wanting the best for him we relented. It was the biggest mistake we ever made. It caused mood swings and fatigue, caused him to act like an emotionless zombie. When we stopped the meds, they said we were encouraging his hyper state. They likened it to child abuse. But the look at the line of kids lined up every day at lunch for thier daily fix turned my stomach.

Now we are off the meds and work on a closer level with him, educate him to learn how to recognize his problem and deal with it.  While he in not the perfect child now, he is learning how to work thru the emotions and control issues. It's not easy and takes a lot of hands on time, but its worth it.

Now, some ask how is this a part of this thread??  More and more of our kids are being drugged for the simple reason of control, and this is a problem that will follow them all thier lives. I look for, one day not too far off, the kids listed as ADHD to be banned from guns and possibly military service as drug users and on medical grounds because of the depression that goes with the ADHD. Well, not my son. Extra parenting will make the difference.... fullclip

One look at this Country, by anyone except a drooling Moron, would convince them the vast majotity are insane....

Let's see....
We have the old folks on Xanax, Tylenol3, percocet and morphine.

We have the kids on Ritalin.

And now (drum roll please...)the newest "disease": ADULT ADD/ADHD !!!
With its own brand spankin' new commercial on TV, with its very own website where you can take a test to see if you need drugs...(can't remember it at the moment, OMG I guess I need drugs)

Its not enough to legally poison the growing minds of kids...now we have to get the parents in on it too. WooHoo.

Very glad to hear that things are working out for your family. Very glad.


For those of you who are young parents or planning to become one, early intervention is the key. The sooner you deal with these issues the better off your children, yourselves, and for that matter, the entire country will be. Parenting starts at birth...

Parenting really is becoming a lost art. Can't totally blame todays young parents either. Many of them were raised in daycares and/or were in small families and never learned the skills. They are floundering and to top it off popular culture has them believing that they are supposed to be their children's best friend. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Kids need parents. For discipline, for mentoring. They can make their own friends.
Many also have this idea that any little upset traumatizes their kid for life. Ridiculous, of course, but this has also become part of our popular culture.

You guys are thinking on the same lines as I am.  Here's yesterday's reply, my next email will be in the post that follows:

**********************************
We do appreciate your concerns, however the fact still remains that this legislation would have been an improvement, as it would make more clear exactly who is and who is not prohibited. The fact is that some people who are currently prohibited from purchasing and possessing firearms don't get stopped by NICS because record reporting is not uniform. At the same time, many people who are legally able to purchase and possess firearms are denied, due to records that have not been updated in the system. Any efforts made toward NCIC or NICS to improve the accuracy and efficiency of these systems are supported.  You said it yourself, "
NICS is already a complex system prone to error..." it is these errors that we wish to improve.

Turning to the actual operation of NICS, NRA has been very active in objecting to how this system was designed and has been implemented.  It is important to remember that NICS was created by the anti-gun Clinton/Reno Department of Justice (DOJ), and it is clear that the original intent of the legislators who offered NICS as a substitute to a permanent waiting period was not followed.  The current practice of retaining the personal information of law-abiding gun purchasers is not what was originally intended, and NRA has supported both legislative remedies to this particular abuse of NICS, as well as judicial remedies.  In addition, current Attorney General John Ashcroft has been working on this matter, and we are pleased to see it is getting the attention it deserves. Our goal always is to pursue the best, most viable strategy to defeat anti-gun legislation based on the political climate of the time.

Again, Our Lady of Peace Act has not been re-introduced this session, other than its inclusion in S.22, which we are opposed to.

Sincerely,

(NRA person)

Dear (NRA person),

Thank you for your response.

First, NICS:  I'm assuming you are a lawyer, and probably a very good one, but not a software engineer.

I know what administration implemented NICS, and I've also read that NRA lawyers helped write the legislation.  Maybe that was the right thing to do at the time, but now it is time to shut it down, not expand it.

Making NICS more complex, adding more data, more conditions under which someone can be denied, will increase the number of false denials by at least the same ratio.  Making an already out-of-control behemoth bigger DOES NOT INCREASE EFFICIENCY OR EFFECTIVENESS!  Furthermore, the same people who created it in the first place with all of its bugs (either by accident or on purpose) will be the ones to "improve it".  NICS is just about the simplest database that could be created, I find it hard to believe it turned out as it did by accident.  Compare it to a search engine like Yahoo that probably handles millions of times more data without error, day after day.  

"Improving" NICS will only further dilute our rights which are already hanging by a thread (or already gone but we don't know it yet).

But when this injustice happens, the NRA gets to step in, do some work, and proclaim that you are standing up for your members' rights when actually you fed the fire in the first place.

The things you are saying are making my case for me.

NICS does not reduce crime.  We were sucked in to accepting a firearms owner registration scheme.  It's time to admit we were wrong and it is time to prevent it from happening again.  

Next, modern psychiatry:  A science born in Nazi Germany to make people more controllable.  Worked its way into our schools in 1963 with the "Community Mental Health Act";  the same year, SAT scores began a 40-year drop after having gone upward for over 100 years.

Psychiatry is drugging millions of children with a drug (Ritalin) that is chemically equal to cocaine.  Remember, Claudia, none of these millions of children will grow up to be gun owners - they were classified as mentally ill in grade school, kindergarten, or in some cases, before being born.  But they're not the only ones - the DSM grows and grows and we are already all certifiable.  

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS:  They don't have to make guns illegal - they just need to define us all as insane and it will be illegal for anyone to own them.  They don't even have to pass laws, all they need to do is write it down in their book!

And no, I'm not going to the APA to gather documentation on the process used to decide what is and isn't mental illness.

You aren't the only one I'm writing to.  You can either get the picture and get out of bed with Schumer and psychiatry or I will continue to take actions which I sincerely believe I will cost you tens of thousands of members.

Sincerely,

(my full name)

Shhhhh, it's just another facet of the un-folding plan.....shhhhhh...go back to sleep.....it's ok....sleep....[|)]

(The former USSR also used psychiatry to further their goals. Political dissenters, were "insane". Prolly used some made up "Mental Illness", like "Homophobia". [:D]

Woo hoo! But...but...but...the NRA is the only pro-gun group in town!

Biggest, but not the only.  I've thought for a long time that biggest was best, what else makes politicians shake in their shoes more than 4 million votes?

Now I'm wondering.  So are a lot of others.

I belong to GOA, CCRKBA, and throw money at JPFO on occasion.  I believe that if any of them had 4 million members, we wouldn't be worrying about our rights, we'd be LOL about all the socialist politicians we crushed under a deluge of votes.

That is correct, you are throwing your money away on loser gun groups that have no chance at acheiving anything. Until you understand that the only objective is to win, even if it is a compromise, then there is no point. It is because of people who throw away their money on isignificant gun organizations that the NRA doesn't have 10 million members.